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Thread: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

  1. #281

    Re: [ATB] GW/x Maverick

    Thank you for you report. How often do you miss Moms? Is MM better than them?

  2. #282
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    Re: [ATB] GW/x Maverick

    Since one month i dropped last Mom for MM, and it was good decision in my eyes. They're often dead draws when u need a decent beater. MM also protect from mostly removal (StP) but also are tempo cards stoping early drops like Hierarch/StP on your hierarch etc.

    It also helps vs combo/thoughtsieze which was revelant. It won me the game 1 vs Junk when I protect my Ooze, and counter thoughseize, then StP to Ooze which mom couldn't do.

    Using Mom when u don't have them double/scryb in play is risky because you can get removal in resp to protection.

  3. #283

    Re: [ATB] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    Polish Ch.
    Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

  4. #284
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    Re: [ATB] GW/x Maverick

    Today played in a minor tournament, went 3-2 in the swiss and got 3rd. In the top 4 I beat Team America and then lost to Reanimator.

    Match 1 was against a friend of mine playing burn, first game was just so good for him. Second and third game he flooded a little bit of land and in the 3rd game Mother of Runes with Jitte and Rafiq hit for 18dmg in one turn for the kill.

    Match 2 was against another friend of mine playing RUW control or something, don't really know the name of the deck. Sword of Light and Shadow + casting Qasali Pridemage over and over again for the win.

    Match 3 was against reanimator. I had NO maindeck ooze and NO karakas. The game was really unfavorable. I lost the first game, second I won with equipped Scryb Ranger. Third game I had to mulligan once or twice and he of course plays turn 2 iona and I can't do anything about it.

    Match 4 was against mono green infect. Oh boy did he draw good.. t2 kill and protection for glistener elf. G2 I won with swords to plowshares. G3 I mulligan down to 5 in order to find something relevant, but once again he leads off to turn 2 kill with protection from swords to plowshares.

    I was pretty much down after this, after beating my friends I lost to two opponents and then the 5th match was once again, against a friend of mine.

    Match 5 against my friend playing dredge. G1 he doesn't get a single dredger to the graveyard and I just beat down with 3 Aven Mindcensor. G2 I get wheel of sun and moon + bojuka bog and tormod's crypt running, but had to wait a moment to get a Knight of the Reliquary. Wheel of Sun and Moon was awesome.

    Top 4:

    Against Team America, G1 we both draw very bad, but I wasteland his only land while the only thing I have is lands. I actually fetched out ALL my lands out of my deck before playing a single creature. After resolving a knight of the reliquary, the game was easy. G2 he gets somewhat good start and I misplay and have a stupid strategy. My strategy was to deny him of his mana when he already had 4 duals in the game and I had like 2 lands. Not good. G3 I resolve Maze of Ith and Knight of the Reliquary while he gets to play Tarmogoyf. I wasteland the crap out of him and destroy all his lands. I keep on hitting and win the game.

    Finals, well. Against reanimator when I didn't have karakas or ooze. I actually didn't even have Phyrexian Metamorph in the sideboard when I should have had one, did my sideboard a little bit bad. G1 I lose barely, if I had lived for one more turn he would have milled himself with Jin-Gitaxias. G2 I have a risky start. I take the risky start to have my GSZ misstepped by him. Taking the risk wasn't worth it. He started with no reanimate spells at all, but of course he draws one on his turn. T2 Iona and the game is over.


    Good cards:

    Scryb Ranger - awesome all day, won a race between Scryb Ranger and Iona. Of course sword of light and shadow helped a little bit, but anyways.. ;) I even got to live the dream against Team America. I have 2 lands untapped, Ranger in my hand and my opponent wants to wasteland my Savannah. Flash Scryb Ranger in, untap ranger and raise Savannah to my hand. My opponent wasn't happy, at all.
    Rafiq of the Many - When he hit board, it was usually game over, immediately.
    Maze of Ith - This might be my favorite land from now on. I just love it, it was really really good through the whole day.
    Sword of Light and Shadow - I am so glad that I swapped this to the SOBAM I had before. Bringing Qasali Pridemage back turn after turn is such a beating.
    Sylcan Library - Always countered. If not, I would just draw extra cards and it'd be very hard for my opponent to get back into the game.

    Bad cards:

    Aven Mindcensor - I know this cards is really good, but today it was NEVER anything more than a flash 2/1 flyer. It's ability was not used once during the whole day. The matchups I had weren't good for Mindcensor, but it just performed poorly. Never the less, I will keep on trying to play this creature.
    Thrun, the Last Troll - No good matchups for Thrun and when I wanted to zenith for 4 I usually wanted to find Rafiq.
    Elspeth, Knight-Errant - Not much to say about her, I saw her once during the whole day and when I saw her I was facing Iona, Blazing Archon and Sphinx of the Steel Wind.


    I'll post my decklist later on when the results are posted somewhere and I'll just copy my decklist from there. I'm too tired to look out what I really played. :P I got my first Dual Land for a prize! Before I've got only fetchlands, this time I got badlands. It's not much, but still the first dual land I've ever won. And I should be able to get that Karakas with it. ;) My French ooze is on his way by mail, but it wasn't fast enough to arrive here in time for the tournament.

    For the future: Need Karakas and Scavenging Ooze. Tarmogoyf was really never needed, when I wanted to zenith for 2 I usually wanted Scryb Ranger or Qasali Pridemage. Sword of Fire and Ice, Umezawa's Jitte and Sword of Light and Shadow were a good trio, but someone has to go and make space for Batterskull. Even though I hate it so much. Also, 3x Enlightened Tutor in the sideboard was too much. Should try to run it with 2 Tutors.

    More stuff:

    Thanks for the report Fatal, your deck seems really nice, besides the missing 4 Mother of Runes. ;) Well, this deck has lost of ways to be built and I myself like Mother of Runes. Your landbase seems really good, might have to aim for it myself as well.

  5. #285
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    Re: [ATB] GW/x Maverick

    Top8 and lose to Spiral played by my brother in today event.

    Win with GR/b Aggro Loam with dreams and wishes 2-1

    Lose 1-0 to Team America - decklist error :( - most stupid thing ever - I was really tired.

    Win with Dredge 2-0

    Win with Affinity UWB with Tezzer/SFMs

    Lose to Spiral..

    Meta was really combo one, Hive Mind, 2 ANTs, 2 Affnities, 2 Enchantress, 2 Dredges etc..

    List:


    3 Noble Hierarch
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Scryb Ranger
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Eternal Witness
    4 Wasteland
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Horizon Canopy
    4 Savannah
    2 Forest
    1 Plains
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Karakas
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Terravore
    3 Mental Misstep
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    2 Aven Mindcensor
    1 Rafiq of the Many
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow
    1 Tarmogoyf
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Birds of Paradise

    //SB
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Choke
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Krosan Grip
    2 Wing Shards
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Bojuka Bog
    2 Life from the Loam
    1 Serenity
    1 Surgical Extraction

  6. #286
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    I played this deck a few times now and I like it. Not playing blue and be competitive is very nice.
    But im not a big friend of the Zenith Toolbox. Besides Gaddock all 1 ofs are cool, but not very effective. Id like to have a more straight forward aggro plan. So I filled the slots with Goyf but have still 4 free slots. I was thinking about NOProg, but that sucks without any ability to put Prog back into Lib.

    Any Ideas how to fasten the clock?
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  7. #287
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    Did you actually like Tarmogoyf in this deck? I found it to be pretty disappointing and rather week. I replaced the one-off from my list with a Scavenging Ooze which is really strong.
    If you want to go more on the aggro-plan, I recommend trying out more Terravores. I also really like Elspeth, Knight-Errant in this deck, it works wonders against groundstalls and is generally pretty strong against control (as long as it resolves).

  8. #288
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    well Goyf depends on the deck the opp plays. If hes blue, Goyf is always a 3/4 with the option of growing. Lots of opp countered him anyway. Terravore is great in mid/lategame but i dont want to have a 1/1 for 3 on Turn 2-4

    Elspeth might be nice but cost 4. Id like to have more oomph in 2 and 3 mana slot.
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  9. #289
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    I talked to the Mod who renamed this to ATB and was able to convince him to rename the thread to "DtB" instead of "AtB". But I agree with him that the thread should focus harder on optimizing the list and finding the best build. There are cards that are just better than the alternatives and we have to find them.

    So what do you mean by "not a friend of the Zenith toolbox"? Zenith is good because it helps the deck hitting the ever-important 1-drop and being still a good draw later in the game. Play it or tell us a good reason why it is a suboptimal choice.

    Also we had about a million people highjacking this thread and telling us that they were adding Tarmogoyf as the first thing they did just because duh. Look at the old Maverick thread:
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post484537

    I was one of them (the metagame was different a year ago, Survival wasn't banned and Zenith wasn't printed so maybe I was right back which I always like to think but probably I was not). It is not that we haven't been there already or that we just refuse to play 4 Tarmogoyfs because we don't like the card.

  10. #290
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    What I like, Zenith help the Deck to have perfect curving, but Im not a friend of that much situational 1ofs like Thrun, Birds, Ranger etc. I like to have simple consistent builds. Thats what im looking for. Maybe the toolbox is the reason this deck is performing well, but maybe its performing well because of the main core. Im playing Goblins for years now and I remember lots of people where running 1ofs as Matron targets. But over the time Lists got tighter and tighter and now ure running mainly 2-4ofs.
    The question is, are there enough gw creatures with big impact in the 1-3 mana slot yet.

    The thing about goyf is, this is the best creature ever printed and in this deck hes not working very well. Question is, discard Goyf from the deck or add some Instants/Sorcerys which are improving the decks gameplan and help the goyf.
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  11. #291
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    That example is good. And yes I agree that reducing the number of Zenith targets to a minimum is a good idea and that people play too many situational targets. But cutting Zenith would be like cutting Goblin Matron and you wouldn't do that.

  12. #292
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    Here's my list I've been testing. I like the mad consistency of it and the fewer Zenith 1-ofs than many lists I see.

    4x Noble Hierarch
    4x GSZ
    4x Knight of the Reliquary
    2x Goyf
    2x Qasali Pridemage
    2x Stoneforge Mystic
    1x Sword of Fire/Ice
    1x Sword of Light/Shadow
    3x Scryb Ranger
    3x Mother of Runes
    3x Weathered Wayfarer
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    4x Mental Misstep
    1x Scavenging Ooze

    4x Windswept Heath
    3x Savannah
    1x Tropical Island
    1x Tundra
    4x Wasteland
    3x Horizon Canopy
    1x Gaea's Cradle
    1x Maze of Ith
    1x Karakas
    1x Forest
    1x Plains
    1x Dryad Arbor

    //SB
    4x Spell Pierce
    11x other stuff


    Weathered Wayfarer can DOMINATE the early game against many decks, giving the deck another MUST-answer bomb against control decks in particular. Scryb Ranger has so much utility in this deck it's insane to not run it. Not to mention it flies and has flash and Pro-blue on top of everything else.

  13. #293

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    I agree with Humphrey. I have always played the classic version, but when all people began to play 4x GSZ i tried that version. But I didnt like having many single GSZ targets. Opening hands were usually random.

    But GSZ is powerfull, even without 1-ofs targets. Actually i play 2 GSZ to improve the curve, but without 1-ofs (I would only play terravore, ooze and gaddock).

    People should try to play aetehr vial. If cutting GSZ is like cutting goblin matron, so would you cut aether vial in gobos? In GW vial is even more powerfull.

    I also agree with sclabman. Wayfarer is a bomb. Is very interesting against not so good pairings, like reanimator, show and tell and heavy control landstills.
    In addition, being on the draw is a perfect turn 1.

  14. #294

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    But I agree with him that the thread should focus harder on optimizing the list and finding the best build. There are cards that are just better than the alternatives and we have to find them.

    So what do you mean by "not a friend of the Zenith toolbox"? Zenith is good because it helps the deck hitting the ever-important 1-drop and being still a good draw later in the game. Play it or tell us a good reason why it is a suboptimal choice.
    This line of reasoning strikes me as quite weird. Let's face it, there a r e many different ways to go with a GW midrange deck, and who are you to tell everyone that GSZ is the best way to go. I'm not saying that it isn't, I just don't like the way you want to control what is being discussed in the thread.

    I have also been following the decks development since the early days when it surfaced in Europe (where I also play), and I have also made a vial -> GSZ transition. I agree with M@verick in the post above, I was charmed by GSZ at first, but not that impressed and will move back to vial builds. The first deck I ever saw and played was actually from M@verick during a MWS session (You might not remeber it, but thanks mate), and that list with personal modication is still kick-ass.

  15. #295
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    fix the double post issue plz :)

    The issue only exists in Google Chrome. Take it up with them. ;)

  16. #296
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    Discussing the original Maverick with Wayfarer and Vial and without GSZ as an alternative version is fine and I wouldn't tell anyone to not discuss it of course. But it was not that he actually discussed GSZ, he just stated that he doesnt like the card so he filled the slot up with Goyfs. I told someone who hasn't really played the deck yet that GSZ is widely accepted as an optimal choice and that Goyf is not and gave reasons why I think that is the case.

    For the general topic of the thread: because atm the GSZ version puts up tournament results in significant numbers I think finding the right build and choices for this version should be the major topic. But like I said I would never object to actual arguments about different approaches to the deck.

  17. #297
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    If you want consistency, you should never reduce the number of GSZ. That card is all about improving consistency.
    It’s acceleration on turn 1, the best treat or answer later, and an increase of treat density as the game goes on. Just playing 4ofs, Zoo-like, is far from this level of consistency, nothing grants you won't draw 3 of a suboptimal choice and zero of the best one.

    The only drawback of GSZ is the extra mana. This deck, however, is the best shell to handle this drawback. With 1 or 2 mana available you go for Dryad or Hierarch, and you wish nothing more than acceleration when you’re low of mana. When you reach 3 mana you usually have something else in hand to play, with the option to fetch QPM, Ranger and so on. With 4+ mana you can fetch any green critter and GSZ is almost always the best card you can draw.

    About the “inconsistency” of the 1ofs, I run:

    • 1 Terravore: I consider it as mandatory. Against any opponent filling its GY with lands, i.e. almost everybody, it’s much bigger than KOR, and trample is very relevant. Not bad as a early draw and a huge finisher
    • 1 Eternal Witness: maybe not “mandatory”, I think it improves consistency a lot. Regrowthing that STP saved my ass a lot of times
    • 1 Scavenging Ooze: not Mandatory, usually becomes at least as big as a goyf but with a lot of utilities, it’s never a “bad” draw. I prefer him over another Scryb Ranger or QPM atm
    • 1 Thrun: more a meta choice, I MD him for control matchups but it’s not that bad in general, besides being slow if you draw him early game
    • I don’t run Teeg MD (meta choice, and he’s the only antisynergic of the “1ofs”)


    My current list:

    // Creatures (25):
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Aven Mindcensor
    2 Qasali Pridemage
    2 Scryb Ranger
    1 Terravore
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Thrun, the Last Troll
    1 Scavenging Ooze

    // Non-Cr. Spells (13):
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Feast and Famine

    // Lands (22):
    4 Windswept heath
    1 Wooded Foothills
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Misty Rainforest

    3 Savannah
    2 Forest
    1 Plains

    3 Wasteland
    3 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    1 Gaea’s Cradle
    1 Dryad Arbor


    I find this list extremely consistent. I’m just not totally sold on the Ooze, could become a third QPM or SR.

    About Vial: it’s the old choice between consistency and speed. Speed is a good thing, but our way of consistency grants us mana acceleration too, so we are not missing speed that much. And, on the other hand, our way of consistency grants us a mid-late game with few equals in the current metagame, whether Vial is a bad draw after the beginning. GSZ is very good early game and the best later. I’d never, NEVER cut him from this deck.

    Finally, a question about Wayfarer: I’ve never had experience of the early incarnation of this deck and probably I’m missing how to play him properly. Why should him be “a bomb?”
    Last edited by Morte; 07-08-2011 at 09:45 AM.

  18. #298

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    I agree GSZ improves consistency and it is the best draw on a long game. 1 ofs doesnt work the same.

    Aether vial is a bad topdeck (except if the oponent play control), but is by far THE BEST turn 1 of the deck. would you guys play goblins or merfolks without vial? I dont think so. Is awesome the velocity and the tricks you can do with aether vial

    About wayfarer: obviusly is best in the WG vial configuration. It is awesome vs show and tell-emrakul (is like playing 8 karakas main deck) and the same vs reanimator. Is a must be countered vs all kind of landstill. you can do a lot of tricks if you know the rules well, with wasteland, fetchland and horizon canopy. Is the best option to find gaeas cradle at beginning. It has a very good interaction with scryb ranger...if you are on the draw, you can force the opponent to not playing lands, or being subjet to a card disvantatge. Is CC1 and is not killed by popular perish.

    @ henrik. If you give me some details maybe I remember. Did we play a WG mirror?

  19. #299

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    @Morte: Damn, that list looks tight, I might give it a try. How are you doing vs control?

    In general, I have to say that I find mysself wanting more and more the 3rd Pridemage in the main. Anybody else having the same experiences?

    On a sidenote, I dropped GW Maverick for the last tournament cause there have been sooo much combo and hardcontrol decks in my meta lately. What did I face (with Reanimator)? Merfolkx2, Affinityx2 and Goblins. :(

  20. #300
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    I've been rocking 3 QPM since I started playing the deck. If I went back to Vial versions, I would increase it to 4.
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