I'm using -4 thalia and +4 tidehollow sculler. He's good in begining or late game and affects all kinds of decks.Originally Posted by Stuhl
Is anyone testing a one-of Dryad Militant in the 75? Seems good against storm decks with applications against graveyard and mid range strategies.
Militant seems pretty good right now with DRS and Goyf everywhere. Unfortunately Maverick already suffers against most of the hate intended for TNN, so I don't know if more x/1s are the place to be. Probably not a bad idea as a 1-of though.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
I'm actually looking at it as another bear for combo, except it's accessible via GSZ@1. I don't know how much I like it vs. Goyf, but we'll see.
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Any thoughts on replacing Thalia with Spirit in the Detroit list? Cut the Sylvans for a pair of Mystics to avoid hurting yourself. I know Finn tested it extensively in D&T, but I feel that with exalted triggers, this might be the better home.
I tried that setup before. Losing sylvan library really puts a dent on our deck as this is our only option for CA. I have 2 on my deck and I feel anything lower just won't cut it
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If that's the case, have you considered running more? Just out of curiosity?
I used 3 spirits in MB. Actually, its really not as strong as it seems. I feel that the best deck that would use this are decks that use vials, DNT.
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I've got nothing but games to lose, so I'll keep testing it for shits sake. More data never hurts, right?
I'm torn between wanting double sword and jitte, and wanting a Batterskull in the main. Worth it? No?
i prefer sword&jitte. altho I use 2 jitte in my deck.Batterskull in the hand w/o sfm is extremely bad for us, with no brainstorm to shuffle it back to the library.
do you guys see anything in JOU that might be used in maverick? Aegis of the gods perhaps in an enlightened tutor sideboard.
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Hello again,
I played four rounds of legacy at a local tournament today and finished 8:0 with straight GW Maverick. As I don't remember the games very well, I will just do a little overall report.
The list:
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Mother of Runes
4x Knight of the Reliquary
3x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Gaddock Teeg
2x Qasali Pridemage
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Scryb Ranger
1x Dryad Arbor
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
1x Crop Rotation
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Batterskull
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Savannah
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wasteland
1x Karakas
2x Horizon Canopy
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Thespian's Stage
1x Dark Depths
SB
1x Path to Exile
1x Krosan Grip
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Humility
2x Pithing Needle
1x Thrun, the Last Troll
1x Elspeth
2x Wilt-Leaf Liege
3x Surgical Extraction
1x Bojuka Bog
We were 9 players and I knew the decks more or less (it was more or less a tournament with friends :P, so don't take the result too serious!) so I adjusted the SB for a creature and graveyard (reanimator, dredge) heavy meta. Usually I would play another Teeg and 2-3 Canonists and maybe just 2 Extractions and no Elspeth. The 2 Lieges are great in my opinion as one of the most dangerous things are -1/-1 sweeps and usually decks who play these cards are also playing discard (Hymn, Lilly) and Abrupt Decays -> 4cmc is save! They also pump your army in a creature based meta, having a 7/7 flying, hexproof/sacproof is... very good?!?!? I boarded them against D&T and ended up with one hell of an army!
I did the DD combo only once to get 20 life which bought me time to overrun my opponent which had a TNN in play. I was really happy with the combo. Didn't have annoying situations and was able to put pressure on my opponents often. I nearly always boarded it out in the 2nd game, especially against D&T (Karakas, Swords, Flickerwisp... -> NEVER try to combo against a D&T deck!).
The equipments I played really were worth it. Never don't play Batterskull... it's just too good. You get life, it is Decay proof, you can equip Scryb Ranger to swing heavily in the air, you can hard cast it often with mana dorks, Cradle, Scryb Ranger AND mana dorks, Knight to Cradle, Crop Rotation to Cradle, whatever your hand looks like. I think the "ugly" situations with Batterskull are rare compared with the good ones! 1st turn Mother -> 2nd turn Stoneforge to Batterskull -> Overpwnage! SoFaI is just strong against TNN decks, gives drawback, etc., but you all know that :P and Jitte... yeah :P!
The Crop Rotation did very well! Against Reanimate he went down to 5 life with Exhume to Griselbrand, then wanted to attack and I rotate into Karakas (but ok, he did not play blue in his Reanimate deck... it was more a brew). But also Rotation for Cradle or Wasteland ist just good. I liked that one, also with Bojuka Bog in the sideboard.
Yeah, Bojuka Bog saved my ass in a mirror match. He attacked with a 8/8 Knight, but I only took 2 damage ;). His deck played only Knights as real beaters -> very dangerous against graveyard hate. I like Sigarda in that case as one, zenithable really big, independent creature.
I'm really happy with Cradle, too. It just adds so much speed! Often you can fetch an equipment with SM and just play it, equip AND attack. Playing two Canopys seems reasonable as Maverick just has no good drawback and in the lategame this one additional draw is often necessary. Cavern of Souls didn't do anything, but it also never hurt. As I said, there weren't a lot of blue decks :P. I know, in reality things are less comfortable.#
Sylvan Library performed really great. Had a lot of nice draws thanks to SL.
And of course, my most favorite creature in Maverick: Scryb Ranger did great, as always! Ads more mana, doubles Mother, blocks Delver, saves lands and Arbor, doubles Knight for double Wasteland/instant combo, attacks in the air (often with 2/3 exalted triggers), etc... But nonetheless I would play it just as a one off. He is great, but also small.
Well, these are my experiences. I play straight GW since a few weeks now and I really like it! I think it is really stable. I know, Deathrite Shamans are very very very good, but believe me, it also works without them and against decks which also play DS you just don't care, you have your mana fixed! No fights agout lands... just ramping out and maybe going into Ooze and nomnomnom. You also can put a Needle on DS! You also have no discard in the SB, but with Thalia and 2-3 Canonists, additional Teeg and maybe Extractions you should be able to play against storm...
Against TNN you imo just have to race. With SoFaI and mana ramp that's imo very good possible.
Thrun, Elspeth are against Miracle decks in the first place. But also against board whipes like Pernicious Deed or Supreme Verdict.
Well, that's all I remember :P
Had again a great time with Maverick and discovered once again that you always should play 4 Mother of Runes!!! Always!
- Stuhl
I really like the Doran idea and might try it in the future. Also, watching Caleb Durward's banned videos with Survival of the Fittest made me want to try a Fauna Shaman/Loyal Retainers/Elesh Norn package. Against Elves and TNN decks that should be game, and post board we can bring in Iona or similar trumps for tough matchups. Also, rebuying Thalia, Teeg or Sigarda shouldn't be underestimated. Thoughts?
I don't like it. It is a very slow, mana intensive combo. I think maverick as all about ramping and cutting your opponents mana. I think a zenith to knight or even an early sigarda is better than fauna shaman (who is small and needs one more turn to be activated). You can't tutor retainers, so you need to play more of them. They just do nothing most of the time. And getting teeg, thalia back... hm, I don't think that's necessary. Bringing sigarda back? How the hell should she die :)? Ok, there are globals, but in 90% of all games she won't leave the battlefield.
Reanimator decks can get elesh norn first turn and protect the combo with countermagic. That's what they do, but not what maverick does.
You can give it a try, but I don't think you will achieve great success.
Hi,
Some thoughts after BOM9 in Annecy. I played the following list [almost Herzog List]:
Creatures [25]
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Instants [4]
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries [4]
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Enchantments [2]
2 Sylvan Library
Artifacts [3]
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands [22]
1 Bayou
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
2 Savannah
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Path to Exile
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thoughtseize
I don't have notes but from what I recall it was like this:
Round 1 - BYE - 3 Points
Round 2 - Merfolks (2-1) - 6 Points
I lost game 1 crushed by the army of the blue lords. In game I assembled Scryb Ranger + SoFI duo with mother of runes and this was enough. In game 3 he copied my stoneforge mystic with phantasmal image and searched for jitte. Then played nemesis and for 2 turns was one mana short of casting and equiping TNN with Jitte (to kill my 2 moms). In the end 2 KoTRs that were about 12/12 sealed the game.
Round 3 - I have no idea what was it but I won - 9 Points
Round 4 - Shardless BUG (0-2) - 9 Points
This one was on the camera. Game 1 I mulliganed to 5 keeping quite a strong hand. T1 Deathrite, T2 SFM (Forced), T3 Ooze (Forced) no gas and sudden death. Game 2 I lead with T1 Noble, T2 Mom and Deatrite, T3 Mom and then he cast toxic deluge and clearing the board ... my bad play here. I didn't expect that card here.
Round 5 - ANT (2-0) - 12 Points
Game one he Thoughtseizes me and takes Thalia, then therapies to take GSZ. I topdeck Gaddock turn later and after that I played another Thalia I drew from the top. Game 2 I keep risky 1 lander hand with Thoughtseize / 2xDRS / Fetch / Thalia. He cabals thalia, I thougthseize him taking Infernal Tutor. Then cast DRS turn two. I rip Thalia from the Top, then cannonist and surgical extracting his tutors. No more lands showed but I used opponent fetches :)
6 - Death and Taxes (1-0) - 15 Points
Game one was very long, about 35 minutes. He was using Ports to keep me off my mana but I had a lot of lands. The game was won by Qasali holding Jitte and SOFI. In game 2 I was short on lands. I sworded T1 mom and was stuck on 2 lands. He played Mirran Crusader equiped it with jitte. It was blocked by thalia (thanks god that worked). Then he cast SFM for batterskull. I somehow managed to survive and played 2 KoTRs to survive. Knights were bigger than Batterskull with Jitte. The time was called so I won 1-0
Round 7 - Sneak and Show (0-2) - 15 Points
Things started to go wrong from here. Game 1 he played STD from volcanic island so I though I was playing against miracles. He forced my Knight and S&T Sneak to cast Griselbrand (draw XX) and cast emrakul for the win. Game 2 was similar. Bad matchups are bad -.-
Round 8 - Burn (1-2) - 15 Points
I lost game 1 quite fast. No DRS, no Thalia but hand was pretty good but not against burn ... in game 2 I managed to draw 4 DRS that was enough to seal the game. In game 3 I STPed turn 1 Gobilin Guide and then I was crused by new Pyrostatic Pillar on legs (Edilon of sth) ...
Round 9 - BRUG Planeswalkers with PF combo (2-1) - 18 Points
Game 1 I managed to survive all the removal spells and somehow kill him. Game 2 fast Liliana and PF crushed me. In game 3 I survived 2 JTMS, 3 Lilianas thanks to SoLaS that was returning a creature each turn so that I could sacrifice sth to liliana, return a creature to jace and have one more to attack with SoLaS
Round 10 - Miracles (0-2) - 18 Points
Game 1 I could block his spells with Teeg but I didn't just play it and I don't know why ... Game 2 I almost had having surgical extractioned his STPs. However his SFM after sideboarding with batterskull sealed the game. Cause miracles were blocked by Teeg again.
Overall finished 6-4 but starting 5-1 I expected sth better.
Pros
- great tournament
- deck choice was good
- the best cards are always on the top!
- scryb ranger is a house
Cons
- SoLaS was a thing I never searched with SFM
- I have never seen Sylvan Library
- poor game on the vid
That's all thanks :)
Thank you for good report from BoM9
I took this to a testing session today and beat the snot out of UR Delver, Twelvepost, BUG Delver and Bant. I'd love to make room for a single Life from the Loam and perhaps another Pridemage, but other than that I'm extremely happy with this maindeck.
23 creatures:
1x Birds of Paradise
2x Deathrite Shaman
3x Mother of Runes
2x Noble Hierarch
1x Sylvan Safekeeper
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Scryb Ranger
2x Stoneforge Mystic
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
15 other spells:
4x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Sylvan Library
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Sword of Light and Shadow
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
22 lands:
4x Wasteland
4x Windswept Heath
2x Savannah
1x Bayou
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Plains
1x Scrubland
1x Verdant Catacombs
Very temporary sideboard:
4 Oblivion Ring
3 Choke
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
I haven't changed the sideboard since I switched back from GW vial to GWb, so I plan to retool it entirely. I expect a fairly broad spectrum of decks, including various Delver decks, both Show and Tell variants, a couple of Storm diehards, a couple of Burn adherents and most likely several Miracle players. Dredge tends to show up in numbers or not at all.
Things I'd like to include:
A flexible mass removal spell like Engineered Explosives, Ratchet Bomb or Maelstrom Pulse
Lifegain (I'm actually considering Lone Missionary, since it gives a healthy four life straight away for only two mana)
Discard (currently leaning towards a split between Thoughtseize, Inquisition and Duress)
Anti-Nemesis cards (Golgari Charm and/or Zealous Persecution)
A single Garruk Relentless for the Miracles matchup
Suggestions?
Just by virtue of my location you probably know who this is. I'm usually the only one really playing maverick in the immediate Ann Arbor area. We've talked about choke before. There's always going to be threats that slip in before it and I understand that was one of your arguments. I also understand the tendency for it to get dazed or spell pierced against all those delver decks. My meta is full of miracles decks. In the typical 8-10 people that show up for the weekly there are usually no less than three people playing the deck. Choke is obviously the bomb against these kind of decks. So for my meta, if I wanted to play maverick, choke is absolutely essential. Playing a creature deck is a losing proposition against miracles, and choke helps to tip the scales back to at least even. With the help of choke I 2-0'd Kyle, who I only mention because he recently won a grand prix, and he is miles and miles better at playing magic than me. He had around 7 lands in play tapped, all islands, and a choke off the top of my deck instantly won the game because he kept having to bounce and replay his batterskull. I wasn't even playing maverick, I was playing Sam Black's Zombardment deck. I play 3 choke in my enchantress sideboard, and when I was playing against miracles my opponent tapped out for jace, and I slammed down the choke I had been holding in my hand. One oblivion ring on jace later and he was dead, dead, dead. However, even though the decks I was playing weren't maverick, my examples are just to show that the card is effective and often game winning.
Since TNN got printed I've been playing the dark depths stage combo to go over the top of what your opponent is doing. It's especially helpful on stalled board states or when you don't have a favorable attack. I know it's not always at its best. For example playing in the top 8 of the last black lotus tournament, my shardless bug opponent had a baleful strix to block it for one turn, brainstorms, untaps and plays a jace to bounce Marit Lage. This took away my "free" win but if I had not had the combo the board was too clogged up with tarmogoyfs and shardless agents for me to win otherwise. However, the cost of playing the combo is so low. You're basically conceding yourself to having one dead card (which is actually not really dead because simply having dark depths in play threatens and makes KOTR a must counter) and you lose one fetch land. It's bad to lose the fetch with a deck that plays KOTR and deathrite, but even if you combo out and it doesn't work, your KOTR is now huge.
My main question was actually to ask you if you like Dark Confidant in Maverick. Protecting bob with a mother of runes just seems insane. The question you'll probably ask in return is what do you cut to fit it in? From your list, I would say -1 Qasali -2 Stoneforge, -1 Library. Losing a library is probably bad but you're replacing a card advantage engine card for another similar effect. I've never liked stoneforge in maverick, it was always slow and clunky for me and I would have no problems cutting it.
In general there are a lot of cards out there like Choke and Scryb Ranger that people have strong feelings for. I know that, and I don't go looking to change anyone's opinion on card selection because it's something that is extremely hard to do and what others run doesn't affect me in the slightest. I do however give my advice on stuff when people ask for it.
When I build sideboards I look to fill it with multi-purpose cards that are generally good against a wide spread of the format. So when I look at Choke in regards to Maverick, I find I'd normally want to find a card that covers more ground. For example, Gaddock Teeg is insane against Miracles as long as you resist the urge to run him into Snapcasters and Cliques. It also happens to be really good against a bunch of combo decks. With a Mother of Runes or SoLS on a Teeg, their only out is a Karakas. I've done a lot of testing with Chris in the past (with just straight GW) and I found I didn't have to go too far out of my way to beat Miracles. When the deck is big, I'll run 1 Teeg in the main, and 2 in the board.
Again, I'm not saying Choke isn't good at what it does, because it is. I think it does a good job hosing Islands and that it can help bridge a skill gap that sometimes exists between players. In the above scenario against Kyle it strikes me that I could have achieved similar results without going to far out of my way, by using a Qasali Pridemage to permanently take care of the Batterskull. Legacy is all about skinning cats in different ways, I just look to do it in a way that best maximizes my 75.
Going alone with all that is another thing I've noticed over the years is how most are just talking about and building their sideboards in the context of their local metagame. Everyone's always got these CounterTop players they want to beat, or Elves or Storm players. That's fine, and it makes sense to metagame your local meta if you want to win. However, I never tune my sideboard for any type of local metagame for a couple reasons. One being that I don't need to, the other being that I'm always looking to be configured for how I would be for an upcoming 1k or SCG Open. That latter is important because it means I'm going to be more ready for these events big events than someone who just jams some Mindbreak Traps in his board week in and week out because there are a couple Storm decks in the local meta. Whatever your local meta is, it's important to realize that it doesn't necessarily represent what your going to be facing at the bigger events. This concept is probably the leading reason why my card selection choices are so different from everyone elses.
People always used to ask me about Dark Confidants in the past, and I always told them the deck had ways to get card advantage without moving to another color. With the advent of Deathrite Shaman, he's most reasonable now than he's ever been, but I still haven't found myself wanting him in Maverick. My reasons for that are: He has competing priority with Thalia. Maverick for me, means quality of cards, rather than quantity, which is what Confidant pushes you towards. He doesn't beat very well. Golgari Charm.
That's not to say I don't love Dark Confidant, because I do. I just think he's better suited in Junk style decks, like the one I refer to as 'Renegade' which I've won mutiple 1k's with and the last two Power events at GYGO.
Can I ask why Abrupt Decay doesn't seem to be an auto include in the SB for lists splashing black?
The deck has so many ways to deal with permanents already, between Swords to Plowshares and Quasali Pridemage (+ GSZs to fetch them) the Abrupt Decays aren't really necessary. Better to lead up on combo hate since they're your worst matchups.
Legacy: Miracles
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