I feel like Elspeth should be Titania, Protector of Argoth if using the Cradle; so you don't have to deal with WW. Titania is a far larger "fatty" effect too; although i could understand Elspeth if hedging against miracles. But then. why not Nissa, Worldwaker. Making hasted 4/4s with trample is much better than making 1/1s; also synergizes with crazy untapping and Cradle.
Come to think of it; why is no one using her?
Originally Posted by Nestalim
@Rascalyote: Drop Elspeth. She's terrible right now (counters, burn, tokens, etc). I would 100% run another Library or Scooze instead.
Going hard in the legacy daily event tonight:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
3 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Rafiq of the Many
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Retreat to Coralhelm
2 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest
4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls
Sideboard:
3 Meddling Mage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Containment Priest
2 Path to Exile
2 Armageddon
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
I have no idea how this will go, but I will get some good testing in and let you guys know.
Edit: I will explain some choices:
1) Rafiq: I just have the most fun playing this guy. You can win out of nowhere and sometimes 1 attack step is all it takes vs Miracles or something like that. The original Brave Sir Robin list ran Kessig Wolf Run, but I think with Mom in the deck you don't really need to worry about trample or a 4th color, just protect and win (you will have extra coralhelm untap triggers by the time your knight is lethal anyways, not to mention uncracked fetches in play, so using mom super proactively is not a problem with coralhelm).
2) Retreat to Coralhelm might be able to replace Sylvan Library. They are sort of in the same category, and scrying can be sometimes act as a replacement for drawing at the cost of life. Also, it might be nice to have 4 just for the combo factor.
3) Lack of Thalia: I am the least sure about this. I think she is actually a necessity, but I wanted to streamline the combo plan. This is too costly in a lot of matchups though.
4) Maverick instead of Bant Midrange: Meh, hatebears are way more effective vs combo than countermagic from my experience. I would rather resolve a hatebear than a force of will 9 times out of ten vs most combo decks anyways, and like Steve said FOW does have it's negative connotations in the fair matchups.
Last edited by ironclad8690; 11-03-2015 at 02:05 AM.
We got there boys (by the skin of our teeth in that elves matchup, but I made a mistake earlier by misclicking and gaining two life with Jitte, so it was closer than it had to be).
TES 2-1
Infect 0-2
Grixis Delver 2-1
Elves 2-1
I am not sure what to do with the list, Rafiq actually came in really handy vs combo by speeding up my clock by basically a million, but I don't know if it is worth a slot.
Sejiri Steppe randomly got a creature through with a Jitte in the elves matchup, so there is some natural power there. It is pretty nice to have a literal instant win by untapping with knight and playing a coralhelm.
Not bad.
I would probably look into maindecking some number of Meddling Mage as a replacement for Thalia. Naming Terminus is a half decent plan against Miracles.
Buried Ruin as a way to return equipment from graveyard and equip Knight during combo might also be worth considering.
Wintersmith's Maverick 02.11.15
[DECK]Lands
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Sideboard
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
I took this list to a 3-round event yesterday.
G1 Faced off vs. Stax to a 1-1-1 result. Both win and loss were due mulliganing (G1 had to go 5) and mana problems, caused by Wasteland and/or Thalia/Lodestone Golem/Sphere of Resistance. We took whole 50 mins to 2 games. SB out 2 StP, Jitte (g3 also Moms), in Decays, KGrip.
G2 was vs. UR Delver/Young Pyromancer/True-name Nemesis deck. Result was also 1-1-1. G1 made a mistake thinking my opponent played Burn. I played Mom, he bolted it. I didn't even notice that he played an Island and Dazed my Thalia. I lost pretty much at that point, even though I managed to get SCooze, DRS, Gaddock w/SoLaS and a Knight vs. Delver, 2 Pyromancers, 2 TNN and couple of elementals. One missed DRS activation, opp was left with 4 life after my last charge and I still had untapped DRS. G2 rnd 1 DRS, rnd 2 SoFaI (opponent responded w/ Null Rod on his turn), ZP took unflipped Delver, Pyromancer and token. Knight and an intense game of magic I managed to win. Last round went to time and draw.
Sb: in 2x ZP, 2 Decay, out: QP, Gaddock, Library, something.
G3 was vs. Lands (afaik). G1, he rolled over me w/Loam engine, showing Bojuga Bog, removing my guys and getting Punishing Fire engine going (notice anything about my creatures...) and Marit Lageing me. G2 I got Sylvan Library, forgot to use it once, but getting guys into zone and beating face. Got Thalia, Knight, ate 3 PF's in one shot with a DRS and GSZ'd Scooze.
M3 was from his pov a turn 1 Sylvan Library w/ Mox Diamond. He didn't get a Loam engine going, had Tabernacle in play and I managed to get him to 2 life, but then missed Tabernacle after my Cradle had been Wasted. I didn't want to go back to upkeep after drawing and my Thalia, Hierarch and Knight were destroyed. I played a SFM, got a sword, passed turn and on my next upkeep forgot Tabernacle again. Opponent put Marit Lage in play (I had over 20 life at that point, so I could have survived one attack). Just because I could, I StP:d the token. Opponent went through the motions and made another Marit Lage. Sb: In Pithing Needles, out Jitte and something.
I tried a new things, learned several hard lessons, found fatal flaw(s) in this list and a got in few good games of magic. I'm preparing for local Legacy Championships, so I have been reading this thread a lot, watched scg event coverages from youtube, mainly those featuring Maverick and looked into other stuff which might help.
Edit: I won against Stax w/Wastelanding a Factory twice, even though opponent had a Crucible of Worlds in play and vs. Lands by Wasteing a Maze of Ith though opponent had LftL going. Both times this enabled a Knight to attack unopposed.
Last edited by Wintersmith; 11-03-2015 at 08:35 AM.
I've tried Buried Ruin before and I think it's pretty weak. If you have Blue mana already, you may as well use Academy Ruins. I agree with MM on Terminus since if you put out 2 threats, they can still only 1-for-1.
Is there a post anywhere with some kind of list of suggested sideboarding plans vs. different decks? I'm aware that I should figure them out myself, depending on my md and local meta, but I feel I need a kind of kickstart on the matter. I can usually figure out what to bring in, but weeding out the less useful cards from md is the problem. I have found plans for few matchups here, so maybe I just have to start digging deeper.
Could you post your 75, or do you just want general suggestions?
--
Is anyone else just not impressed with Abrupt Decay? It feels at its best as an answer to Liliana. Qasali hits everything else that we're worried about, which is mostly equipment. I haven't put Decay in my 75 for a long time now, and it really hasn't been a problem, but my metagame is all sorts of weird. Mostly Miracles/DnT/Nic Fit/Fair nonsense, some Storm/SnS. No Delver(!).
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Bayou
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 2 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
Good luck to everyone going to GP SeaTec!
I have actually been liking Path to Exile more lately, though you do lose points against counterbalance.
You want to board out STP vs most control decks like blade and miracles. You can also take out some number of moms and or mana dorks vs decks with sweepers, because they will give your opp. more value.
Vs Tempo decks, usually qasali pridemage is pretty bad (unless it is UWR delver, but I haven't seen that around), and sylvan library can be too slow against the faster UR/x delver decks.
Vs combo decks, you can cut STP for Thoughtseize, and also cut some of the utility guys like Courser and Pridemage. Vs Elves you definitely want STP though. Keep some number of Mother of Runes to protect hatebears from removal or bounce.
Vs Midrange decks, you are pretty well set up with the mainboard, but you will want to bring out some number of smaller dorks that increase your weakness to -x/-x effects (lookin at you noble hierarch). Qasali isn't that good vs these decks, but you will want 1 for Night of Souls' Betrayal or E Plague. You will want to bring in any outs to Punishing Fire vs decks like Jund (grave hate).
Vs Loam based decks, you can cut some of the stuff that gets picked off by p fire (not DRS though, he is too good vs lands) and STP for more specific hate.
As a more general rule, you can cut the equipment that does least in a given matchup. Sword of Light and Shadow is great vs control and in weird scenarios like Enchantress (with QPM forever), but it isn't really the best vs tempo or combo. Sword of Fire and Ice is basically always good because it really increases your clock vs combo, gives relevant protections vs Bolt or TNN decks. Jitte is too slow for combo, but great against most everything else. Some people cut jitte vs miracles, but I like having as many ways of making a small creature dangerous in that matchup.
My local meta consists at least of Miracles, Punishing Blue(?), Wr D&T, Canadian Threshold, UR/BURG Delvers, 1-2 Burn, Stax, Fish/Goblins, S&T and sometimes randoms.
Last thursday I played vs.
Hexmage Depths (2-0),
Stax (2-0),
Miracles (0-2, g1, couldn't put enough pressure or get threats to stick, g2 I didn't KGrip his Top when I had the chance, he played another and Mentor+tokens took the game 1st time I played against mentor, really bad sb mistake taking all StoPs out)
D&T (1-2, G1, mulligans due land, I knew his deck. Kept Fetch, Waste, GSZ, Thalia and something, fetched Forest, next turn played Waste and GSZ for Hierarch, who got plowed, then opp Wasted Waste, played Thalia, I didn't get land, opp played SFM for BS. I scooped. G2 Moms on both sides, Jittes on both sides, couple of creatures killed. Opp has Magus of the Moon w/Jitte, I topdeck NH, equip Jitte w/1 Counter. Opp attacks, loses MotM. Scoops. G3 Opp Vial into MoR-Thalia-Mirran Crusader w/Jitte onslaugh. GG.
This was the list I played.
Deck: Wintersmith's Maverick 05.11.15 (60)
// Lands
1 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
// Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Courser of Kruphix
// Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
// Sideboard
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Qasali Pridemage
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Armageddon
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
This is literally the opposite of how I feel about the card. I don't want a deck that isn't running DRS and Decay in it right now. With miracles shifting to Mentor + Thresh/Delver decks back in droves, Decay + dork army is a good plan.
In a list with DRS, Scavenging Ooze, Courser, SFM + Jitte + SoLaS, would 1-2 copies of Karlov be viable?
I'm aware that he's more of a vanilla beater (hard to tell how often his sword ability would actually come up) and can't be tutored with GSZ. With either Ooze or Courser + fetches, things could escalate rather quickly.
If it only could be cheated into play vs. Grove of the Burnwillows. Maybe some Vial build?In a list with DRS, Scavenging Ooze, Courser, SFM + Jitte + SoLaS, would 1-2 copies of Karlov be viable?
I'm aware that he's more of a vanilla beater (hard to tell how often his sword ability would actually come up) and can't be tutored with GSZ. With either Ooze or Courser + fetches, things could escalate rather quickly.
Out of the 5ish Miracles players in the area, not one is running a Mentor. They're all still on the Jace/Entreat wincons. I'm sure I would like Decay a lot more if they do switch over to the Mentor plan, but right now the only relevant targets in the maindeck are the Counterbalances.
I will play this week a legacy event and use my dark maverick, low testing but deck gives me a good feeling, thanks for all opinions.
creatures
4 Mother of Runes
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Dark Confidant
Other
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
Lands
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Savannah
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
4 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
I hate decay. I hate the black splash in general and feel that GW is much smoother and more aggressive in every way. But Miracles is stronger than ever now that other Dig Decks aren't holding it down and the thought of cutting the 2 best ways we have to fight the deck is just ludicrous. 4 Deathrites and 2 Abrupt Decay will be stuck in Maverick's 75 until Miracles stops getting better every year.
IMO, Sylvan Library is the best 2 cards in the deck. I think if Maverick can find other problem non-creature permanents it is willing to play that are obnoxious to get rid of for miracles (planeswalkers, enchants or strange token-makers) that's where it's best hope lies.
I don't know how the 3rd Library sdeMatt was running treated him, but I think going deeper into the realm of how to put miracles on the back foot is the right answer. Going for Reclamation Sage may be better as well. 3-drop for Counterbalance, mono-color for Blood Moon, Card Advantage so that they probably have to answer the sage.
I get that QPM beats are nifty; but it may be time people at least start testing the CA route of Sage as I have to imagine the 1-power you occasionally get is less clutch than a free 2/1 you can equip for game who naturally (probably) dodges counterbalance; especially in a deck with 9 main-deck ramps.
Even in other MUs, just killing a Baleful Strix so you can swing with Knight should be a clutch move, and against D&T or other Stoneforge Decks; seems good.
I used to play Uktabi Orangutan pre-Rec Sage days. This card is legit--specifically because it can target low priority targets for value without putting you behind on the board. Aether Vial, Pithing Needle, and even tapping out for Green Sun in order to dodge a counterbalance trigger are all good value.
RiP, Bojuga Bog (from Lands), opposing DRS, SCooze make you vulnerable to Punishing Fire. Your highest toughness besides Marit Lage (which can be bounced w/Karakas or Wasted before getting in into play) is 2. Happened to me lately. So you might wan't to put something in MD w/toughness above 2. SB is also important, so you might want add it too for scrutiny.
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