[May need to take this offline as we're in tangent territory.]Originally Posted by Warden
I am personally going to try replacing 4xBob in my current list with 2x Tasigur, 1xLoam or Library (up to 3 libs), 1x Wasteland (bringing me to 4.) Bob's requirement of living for awhile really has me down, and his lack of impact on the board is obnoxious. I think the 4x Goyf 2x Tasigur will put more pressure on the board in fair and combo matches; while Tasigur in the late game gives you replacement cards *now* while dodging counterbalance reasonably reliably.
I like Bob when he can get online, but for the last three tournies or so, he hasn't been able to get online and I've been defending myself from Anglers, Goyfs, and Tasigurs. Tasigur naturally dodging a whole host of removal is handy as well.
I think Bob + Tasigur is a bit of a waste unless you stay out of Green personally; as they not only clash in mana-cost/ability, but they're both mediocre/terrible for combo. Since that's the same for goyf, I can't imagine spending Goyf/KotR + Bob + Tasigur slots in a deck (Junk) that is already strained for relevant interaction. Maybe KotR Junk could do it, but you basically forgoe lily or just deal with a bad delver MU (because your manabase becomes so weak.)
I think I'll get testing again Saturday; but unsure.
Hi guys, maverick recently won a 30 man legacy tourney here in our area. It ran a Dark Depths-Thespian Stage combo kill. Just wanna ask if you guys find it effective as well or it just screws your mana up. I'll give it a try I guess.
Thats a good video ;)
Tomorrow I'm going to biggest legacy event of the year here, with a little over 100 participants.
Going with K.I.S.S. plan and hoping for the best. Any last minute suggestions?
// Deck: Maverick (60)
// Lands
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
// Creatures
4 Mother of Runes
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Knight of the Reliquary
// Spells
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
// Sideboard
SB: 4 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Scavenging Ooze
SB: 1 Sword of Light and Shadow
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
That list seems great except for that basic Swamp. How often do you want to fetch for it? It can cast only 4 cards main deck (3 DRS, 1 Decay), and Fetch -> Swamp -> Thoughtseize can screw your land drop progression in post-board games. Don't you think that those 3 black sources (Bayou, Scrubland) are enough, since you only want to fetch black when you need it?
EDIT: I've been playing some Rock variants for the past few weeks, it was really solid, great deck. But then... I looked into my binder and saw those 4 Knight of the Reliquary, begging to be dusted off and played like the 10/10 machine they're supposed to be. So I sleeved up my GWb Maverick again, and I'll probably play it in my next local legacy friday.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 3 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Abrupt Decay
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Life from the Loam
SB: 1 Sword of Feast and Famine
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
Any thoughts on the list?
Last edited by Vandalize; 11-29-2015 at 11:24 AM.
Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return
It has little to no effect on your mana since Dark Depths should replace a spell, not a land. The main problem with it is that it takes up 2 card slots (a land for the Thespian Stage and a spell for the Dark Depths) which cuts into the already limited space Maverick has available.
That said, it is a high reward card and gives you outs where you'd never have them prior. Not counting the games you just win because you drew a Stage or Depths + Knight or GSZ and two turns later your opponent is dead.
The risk is in topdeck late games. Unlike almost any other trump card Maverick *could* be running, Dark Depths is the only card in your deck you don't want to draw during the late game. Even a Dryad Arbor/fetchland could theoretically carry equipment.
That being said, I've won my fair share of games using Thespian Stage on both a Maze of Ith (while on defense) and a Dryad Arbor (on offense)--so its not like the stage is bad. Its really the Depths that is the issue.
Usually Depths should take up the Sigarda/Thrun/Wilt-Leaf/Titania/etc... slot
I have been playing this deck quite a bit as of late and am definitely a fan of the Dark Depths win con. There are a lot of times that I will look at the board and realize that my opponent won't be able to deal with a 20/20 indestructible flyer at all and that I can easily survive two turns to make it and just end the game. It happens quite a bit for me actually. You just need to be accurate in reading the board and knowing if they have any outs or whether a traditional aggro plan is better. Post board my Pithing Needles often name wasteland because my opponents have that as their only answer to stop Dark Depths. We are usually a better "fair" deck on the aggro scale so if that is what you are up against, sometimes it's better to just get a knight out and combo off instead of actually trying to play magic.
Today I am become death. The destroyer of worlds. -Oppenheimer
Over the weekend one of my local stores had a small Legacy tournament for dual lands to the top 1-4. About 16 people entered and I took my GW list to a 3-2 8th place for a lovely 2 pack prize. Since I sold most of my paper Legacy collection a little over a year ago, I was missing a lot. I had RUG Delver sleeved and ready but really wanted to play GW. With a little bit of scrambling around borrowing stuff from friends and using the generous 6 proxy rule the shop was using I sleeved up (just in time) this 75:
(Creatures 27)
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Quasali Pridemage
1 Vyrn Wingmare
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Courser of Kruphix
4 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
(Spells 11)
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
(Lands 22)
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Savannah
1 Plains
2 Forest
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswepth Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
2 Cavern of Souls
Sideboard:
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Choke
2 Holy Light
1 Banishing Light
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Krosan Grip
2 Pithing Needle
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Scavenging Ooze
==================================
I ran GW since I didn't have enough proxy spots and cards to borrow to make GWb. I run GW online very close to this list and knew it a lot better then the Black version. After playing with it, I quickly was convinced the Black will help a lot. I originally thought Holy Light would save me out of the board against Pyromancer, Elves, Merfolk, Goblins, and TNN... but what happened was I ran into two token based decks that quickly made me feel like Zealous P. is the bee's knees. Running into Monastery Mentor (Esper Good Stuff) and Lingering Souls style decks, I see the need now. That being said, Light and Shadow was an all star in the deck.
Round 1: BW Tokens w/Sorin, Lingering Souls, Timely Reinforcements, Spectral Procession, Anthems, etc.
I don't remember too much of this one other then in game 3 I was able to topdeck Pithing Needle for a just dropped Sword of Feast and Famine, Gaddock Teeg to stop Sorin from hitting, then Light and Shadow to close out. The Lingering Souls tokens were a bit rough to deal with in larger numbers. Mother of Runes providing unblockable KotR was a solid clock. Wasteland was solid.
Round 2: RUG Delver
Close games (lost in 2). Game 1 I stabalized at 3 health and needed to put a clock on quick knowing a top deck Bolt would end me. With 2 attackers I had the constant blocking threat of creatures (Scryb Ranger for Delver, Thalia, and a Mom). I was a turn away from a Kotr lethal swing when a top decked Foekd Bolt was able to pick off the blockers and allow the lethal swing. Game 2 was a little less interesting with him having a couple of Goyfs on board and me not being able to draw sideboard cards like Choke to close out.
Round 3: Sneak and Show
Game 1 I had a decent clock with a Knight but a JtMS and Emrakul turned into the topdecking nothing. Game 2 he kept a slower hand in terms of combo, but had a turn 1 Blood Moon into a turn 2 Grafdigger's Cage. I was able to drop a Pithing Needle on Sneak Attack and get a basic Plains for a StP on a Griselbrand, but eventually he was able to stick a Through the Breach - Emrakul and win easily. This was a rough match, I didn't feel like I had a chance with Blood Moon on the table and 3 basics in the entire deck.
Round 4: Bye.
Sad one of my 3-2 came from a bye :(
Round 5: Esper good stuff
Monastery Mentor was a bit of a pain, but I was able to StP it most of the time through counter magic using Thalia. Scooze was a big help shrinking graveyards and Karakas helped keep the board under control stopping new Jace and Tasigur. Double Mom made light work of a mono white based creature base. Sticking Thrun was a big help and landing a Jitte off a Stoneforge was a great out to dealing with 1/1 tokens.
All in all it went ok. I felt the RUG matchup was close, the BW token match I felt I lucked into the win, Sneak and Show was a beatdown, and Esper was fair. After running into two decks with white tokens my Holy Light sideboard felt silly. Also the need for black to disrupt combo a bit stalling for Teeg Father is needed. I also think I want to add in the Dark Depths wincon to the deck. There were a few games I had a Knight/Mom out, but had to sit on them on defense so I wouldn't die. Being able to EoT use Knight to find a 20/20 seems pretty good in that situation. Also having an actual way to block an Emrakul would be cool if I could survive the life hit and sac outs.
Cavern was great all weekend and really helped push through creatures against counter heavy decks that are light on removal. Thalia and Mom are great to land against those decks, and having a Cavern on Human allows a ton of flexible creature drops. Thrun in the board was nice in some games, as the body helped handle larger creatures and his regen made him a great resilient blocker. The uncounterable part of Thrun too wasn't something to take lightly. Thrun would have been a Sigarda if I could find one or had another proxy spot, but he worked ok. I think that last flex spot in the board is heavily dependant on the meta. Expect more Emrakuls or black Pox style strategies, run Sigarda. Expect more blue fair decks, Thrun is a beast.
May be someone is interested.
I played last month 3 times gwb zenith. Love some cards of the deck and the most of all skryb ranger. Allows just too much fun.
Ended:
Top 8 (ending 1st of swiss) at a 40 ppl league. Lost top 8 to shardless with 2 deluge md.
Loosing finals of a 30 ppl event
Wining a 30 ppl event.
Deck is just fun and better than death and taxes (dont understand why someone plays this crap deck...)
1 tegg
2 quasali
2 skryb ranger
4 thalia (quizas quitaria 1)
1 stonforge
4 relicario
4 mother or runes
1 ozze
4 deathrite
4 zenith
3 decay
4 swords
2 sylvan library
1 fire ice sword
1 jitte
2 savanah
2 bayou
1 scrubland
1 canopi
1 gradle
4 wasteland
1 plains
1 forest
4 windswepr heath
3 verdant catacomb
1 driada
1 karakas
2 espeth
1 garruk relentless
1 pithing
2 surgical
2 seize
1 krossan
2 council
2 canonist
2 choke
Just for the experta here. My plan va miracles is:
-4 thalia
-4 sword
-1 ozze
+2 choke
+1 garruk
+2 espeth
+1 pithing
+1 grip
+2 council
Other aproaches or way of sideboarding?
You guys think discard is woth? I also like surgical getting rid of terminus or swords is like really great for the rest of the game because then you can overextend or may be just get them to use terminus in once a creature a time.
Also if the dont play mentor I would side out the jitte its just there to kill mentor. But no mentor then no jitte needed.
May be I should just side 1 council and jitte out to side both surgical.
Also someone has idea on how to fight entreat of angels? Is just the card I most die to. Think mana denial and racing is the way. But maybe another plan is better.
I wouldn't cut any number of Thalia against Miracles. Putting them under as much early pressure as possible is critical. Planeswalkers, Choke, and the like aren't bad against Miracles, but aren't fast enough or proactive enough. I would cut a mana dork and a land for starters, then look to cut "action" spells.
You beat Angels with Teeg lock, putting their resources under too much pressure, or a pro-White Sword (which look particularly attractive now with the incorporation of Monastery Mentor).
@Togores: how have double Scryb Rangers been working for you? Why are you playing double? And why not replacing one of them with some bigger creature/bomb (thinking of Sigarda)?
Combatting Angels is hard, I don't have much to add except for possibly putting a second Gaddock in the board (though he doesn't fit so well with the CMC 4 planeswalkers, so probably not) and changing one or two Chokes into Winter Orb or Tsunami. Tsunami can't be worn/torn (or decayed) and with the planeswalkers you're possibly already avoiding slamming an early Gaddock. Winter Orb is applicable in non-blue matchups too (Lands? Nic fit? Cloudpost?), great with Thalia, does add value when choke is already in play as opposite to a second choke. With your list I'd try one Tsunami over one Choke. Also you could change one Council's Judgement into a Maelstrom Pulse.
Thanks for replys.
Skryb is THE BEST card in the deck.
Lets you anbush blue creatures, with dryad it makes a maze of iz, saves you lands of wasteland, lets you use mom twice (when he trys to destroy it twice in a row), lets reuse knight at double wasteland or atack and block. Also makes deathrite a machinegun. Gets you one more mana when you dont have a landrop. All the good and busted things.
Just THE best card.
I just dont play 2 tegg because I have not a second german signed... :D
Also 2 council I think is a evil muss. Because of nemesis. Also gets rid of any kind of planeswalker or thread. Also against shardless bug it removes jace, lilian, any creature or night of soul bettayal. And pulse dont removes tnn.
I will give a thought on winter orb and tsunami. Thanks for the help ^^
@Togores
I'm glad you found power of Scryb Ranger - early version of Maverick used multiple Scryb Ranger since it's best flying unblockable thread (almost only flying creatures in Legacy are blue), which can support almost all creatures in Maverick. Anyway marginalizing it's count to 1 was necessary evil, his 1 toughness was too easy angle to attack in actual meta where almost every deck runs some -1/-1 effects (TNN infestation).
When playing the deck I board out a lot of times x/1 creatures like thalia against decks like any bug with golgary charm or decks I expect to play zealous persecution or night of soul betrayal.
Thalia is a good card. But its not better than zenith or a planeswalker In this deck. That males I prefer to br able to gring into the mid game better than being able to deploy cards that wins the game instead of a card that get golgary away and then also gets my mana deployment stopped.
Skryb is just smexy.
I've been away from Maverick for a while, and I'm slowly shrinking my deck variety way down to this plus a few Griselbrand decks.
If we were to go back to only strict GW, how would the most competitive version look like?
That implies zero DRS and zero Abrupt Decay.
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
Koby, I can't imagine how cutting these cards is a net benefit. DRS is both the reason to splash and the enabler of the splash.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
I have my reasons! (DRS does not have a promo printing...)
I'm thinking something along the lines of this old list: (needs some updating, but it's the idea)
Brandon Chang - Date: 27/10/2013
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Captain Sisay
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Sylvan Library
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Karakas
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
2 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
2 Savannah
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Horizon Canopy
sideboard
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Krosan Grip
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dueling Grounds
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Trinisphere
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Circle of Protection: Red
West side
Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
* Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
My Legacy stream
My MTG Blog - Work in progress
I have been playing a number of games with this list from SCG Vegas on 13-dec-'15
The deck felt really solid and was almost as if i was cheating (never played Maverick before). Nearly every game i ended with a Marit Lage. Mostly of KotR with MoM back-up. But i was in a good position already so Marit Lage was just a win more/save time. However, i did feel like the SFM package is not really needed. It was never relevant, except for one game where i fetched Jitte and got rid of 1 creature. So how would you guys feel about getting rid of SFM in this build?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
While I don't doubt your experience, it's probably luck of the draw. SFM is CA, and about the only reliable CA the deck has. The cards it fetches are CA if they ever connect, and normally more than one cards worth as well. The clocks they present allow the high threat density but low power of the build to push through.
That said, it really depends what you're looking to replace it with. We can't really evaluate just dropping 4-7 cards without knowing what we'd replace them with.
The question is less "how good is this card in the deck" and more "how good is it relative to what it could be replaced with."
Either way, I assume it's still a go-to, but we have to start with the right frame of mind I think.
Marit lage good, SFM bad?Well, the thing with SFM was that it felt like the deck A. didn't require SFM, as KotR along with Mom, Thalia and the GSZ package delivered enough punching power. B. Surprisingly: getting KotR out, or paving the road as you may, also set an easy way to drop Marit Lage. Because your working on lands here going for KotR + DD combo seems to be more in harmony then SFM is in the deck. It is not that DD combo is really needed for winning, but you have the ability to one shot your opponent without making extra effort to do so. SFM just felt like: ok, i am doing this, but now i am gonna do that instead. Hope that makes sense, and was wondering just wondering if i am just piloting the deck in an awkward way.
As substitutes i haven't thought it trough, but was thinking 1 or 2 more lands (Swamp/Forest, Gaea's Cradle) and 3 Dark Confidant.
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
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