Originally Posted by Cire
I think it's time again for some vial maverick action.
One argument against aether vial in maverick was the inability of fetching the right toolbox targets.
with this awesome card you'll be able to both generate card advantage and search for the right tools.
also: when cutting green sun zenith we're able to play more creatures thus making collected company better.
imagine:
#1 Vial on 2, Vial on 3:
opp: Terminus trigger
response, recruiter into gaddock teeg
#2 vial on 3, vial on 3
vial in recruiter into flicker wisp target recruiter into flicker wisp rinse repeat value.
#3 vial on 3, vial on 3
collected company into recruiter into eternal witness target collected company #infinitevalue
my first thoughts:
cutting the 4ofss to 3offs to make room for 4 recruiter + 4 flickerwisp
core:
4 aether vial
4 swords to plowshares
4 collected company
4 recruiter of the guard
4 flickerwisp
3 mother of runes
3 knight of the reliquary
3 thalia, guardian of thraben
etc. you get my point
although finding stoneforge mystic is great, i dont think running more non-creatures is good for collected company.
didn't someone made a calculation about how many creatures are needed for a good % in hitting 2 creatures?
~screallix
Ha, now i'm just imagining a silly CoCo Recruiter Deck. . .
4 Collected Company
4 STP
2 Punishing Fire
1 Jitte
1 Batterskull
3 Grove
17 Other Lands
4 Red Recruiter
4 White Recruiter
4 DRS
4 Noble Heirach
2 SFM
2 Knights
1 Clique
1 TNN
1 Meddling Mage
1 Revoker
1 Flickerwisp
1 New Thalia
1 Pridemage
1 [?]
CoCo and Thalia GoT seem like a bit of a non-bo but it is something to consider. Would make the deck much more resilient to Terminus, especially if you hit two guys and one of them is a recruiter that puts another guy in your hand.
I ran this on Sunday. Recalling from memory.
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
3 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
/26
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Life from the Loam
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
/13
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
2 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
/22
SB
3 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Sylvan Library
2 Pithing Needle
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Containment Priest
/15
EDIT: had 0 Teeg, 2 Priests in sb (literally I give up against miracles)
===
I'll have to find my notes to discuss matchup details. I beat UR delver, DnT, Eldrazi-colorless, *something else*. Lost the final 2 rounds to 4C deathblade and Shardless BUG. Tied Elves!
***
New Thalia was dope. She's not leaving the deck anytime soon. If you drop her turn 2 or 3, it warrants Force of Will immediately. SFM was also a goddamn all-star throughout my day. It won me a variety of games by itself, especially down the stretch in near or complete topdeck mode.
I had a gut-feeling I'd need the DD/Stage combo and it was great all day. It won 3 games --- sealed up the Eldrazi matchup in particular. Loam + DD combo was strong. I had 1 game that had an opening hand of 2 wastelands, a fetch, and loam. Needless to say that was a strong CA engine early.
I never really bothered with TS all day. Did not need Surgical.
I'm kicking myself for running out of luck and momentum after being ranked #4 in the event at 4-0-1. I simply couldn't close out matches down the stretch. My final game was a mull to 5 during game 3. Felt awful.
===
@Recruiter of the Guard: This is a tough one. It's a very strong 3 drop in a deck that's more or less out of free space. I like that we finally have an on-color Imperial Recruiter -- capable of still grabbing basically every target. However, I will remind people that we're looking at another SFM. I mean that we're looking at a dud of a creature that tutors for something substantial. Sequentially, it makes our lines of play clunky unless we vial it in (more on this below) or have a dork.
I think the end-result is going to be a ridiculously awesome Green and Taxes list. I am not sure I'd want Vial -- because you'd want the mana dorks to muscle out Recruiter on turn 2 (faster than traditional DnT setups) and/or smooth your sequencing over the opening turns. You also don't want to waste 12 of your 38 functional slots on setup cards.
@dorks + Recruiter: This is the way to go, though I think 8 dorks is likely overkill. You want 3 mana on turn 2 and at least 4 mana on turn 3.
I can't figure out a list right now, but I'm open to kicking around ideas.
Last edited by Warden; 08-16-2016 at 06:50 PM.
@Warden: it seems like Horizon Canopy would be great with the Loam in your list. Nice list btw!
One advantage of the new recruiter is that it enables playing one of hatebears/bullets in the main deck (increased viability due to being tutorable): Ethersworn Canonist, Spirit of the Labyrinth (so good with two vials, perhaps it's finally your time to shine), Aegis of the Gods, Meddling Mage.. And bullets such as Mirran Crusader, Mangara, Tidehollow Sculler, Orzhov Pontiff, Ooze (green, but still). And actually some beaters: Endless One, Goyf..
Edit: PS if anyone can help me get rid of the 2-3 empty lines at the end of my messages please let me know. They are not in the signature.
damn Warden I love that maindeck Loam. With Wasteland and Thalia HC it is so brutal against non-basics.
To me I see this deck as being really dependent on ramp t1 and while GSZ has been nice for double-duty there, there's no denying that THC is a good card for any strategy that wants to wasteland the opponent multiple times and can't be ignored. I actually thought about Time of Need and Living Wish but you really just want to play 4 of her and try to get her down on as many turn 2s as possible (and also have a wasteland)
Maybe the deck that tries this strategy isn't truly Maverick, but I think it's still a deck with potential.
Rock Mox Diamond loam Thalia aggro? Crop Rotation for the tempos and knights are pretty sick too
I thought about Mox D but it's very vulnerable in the meta. Plus my team was getting blow up constantly on Sunday. I would hate the tempo loss of seeing 4 cards (land, mox, mox's land, the actual creature) result in them simply going decay/STP/counterspell. Feels bad. I think a loan centric deck needs to be Aggro loan. I had it in my list to preserve DD combo and to be a technical outside wincon with wasteland.
Edit:
@horizon canopy: I literally cannot stand the card. Id run basics and fetches ahead of it. It definitely doesn't crack into my Mount Rushmore of Maverick "utility lands". Assuming you own it, Cradle is 10 times out of 10 better.
Thanks for the kudos peeps! Wish I had made T8. The deck is spicy.
Frank Karsten did: http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...ons-of-tarkir/
Screallix's idea with CC seems pretty neat. More instant speed creatures helps dodging Terminus, not to mention that the Recruiter/Flickerwisp package is stuff made of nightmares for Miracles, since it's Imperial Recruiter chaining on steroids. Instant speed Teeg/Prelate gives the middle finger to Terminus triggers. Also these elements could combine very well into a build that wrecks Miracles.
Eternal Witness seems insane in that kind of build - fetchable with Recruiter, recycles your freshly cast Collected Companies or StPs and has an unholy amount of synergy with Flickerwisp.
5-0 with my same list last night
I think this is what I played
1 eldazi
2 grixis
3 shardless
4 storm
5 big red
Scryb ranger is awesome, considering also going back to a 1 of quirion ranger and only run 1 pridemage. Scryb Rangers ability wins so many games.
Might seem like jank at first glance but thoughts on playing a copy of Throne of the High City in the SB? (Taps for C and has 4, tap, sac: become the monarch.)
Made Top 8 at Mythic. Went 4-0-2
R1: Sneak/Show = W
R2: Affinity = W
R3: Goblins = W
R4: McKay UR Delver = ID (mutual agreement not to play each other and hedge ourselves against the final 2 rounds)
R5: Timur's Noble-SFM-TNN Bant = W
R6: Kassis UR Delver = ID into top 8
T8: Hollywood Sneak/Show = L (very entertaining for those who watched. I didn't really stand a chance but played serious head games)
Scagnelli / Top 8 / Mythic Games - Aug. 2016 Legacy Monthly
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Noble Hierarch
3 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
/28
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Life from the Loam
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
/11
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Karakas
2 Forest
2 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland
/22
SB
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Pithing Needle
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Rest in Peace
2 Armageddon
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
/15
***
Notes
- I made some tweaks to my SCG: Cuse list. Reflecting back on the event, I felt Safekeeper just sucked against a field that centered around fair decks. You really need 4 moms to provide either protection or pro-actively get your team through any and all clogged up boardstates.
- I survived an Emrakul attack during R1-game 2. He knocked me down to 3 and wiped my table. I didn't quit because he had nothing in hand after that -- making him topdeck and try to finish me off. Lady luck let me quickly assemble a team and out top-deck for a win from oblivion.
- I cut decays from the main because I feel they're not "needed" as much as I have a tendency to view them as a security blanket.
- I re-read my previous post about how much I appreciated SFM at Syracuse and decided to bump her up to 3x. Whatever is going on in the meta is letting me capitalize on her coming out to play. I'm running an onslaught of creatures -- so if anyone can carry the equipment, they're the new "must answer'' threat.
- DD/Stage continued to steal games.
- Cradle does cradle things...usually leading to a ridiculous chain of events
- KotR is MVP and nobody respects her.
- Thalia 2.0 was great all day.
- Loam never showed up except in 1 hand I decided to mulligan away.
- Half my SB was irrelevant. I totally underestimated the amount of Lands.dec and Sneak/Shows in the room. I should have run Containment Priests again to sure up those matches. I nearly ran a Kgrip and Sylvan in place of Mirran Crusader, who only came in once all day. Kgrip would have been relevant. Sylvan would have been okay. Armageddon was my concession at Miracles/Nic Fit/Eldrazi Stompy and a hail mary inclusion against Sneak/Show. The only one I played all day was countered (R1 against sneak/show). If it wasn't, I easily had the game. If I could remake the SB, I'd have run Revokers, Canonists, and Priests in place of Crusaders, Gideons, and Armageddons.
Played in the Vancouver legacy classic today ( which sadly SDEMatt never goes to anymore :'( )
I suck at tournament reports because my memory is blegh (and Im tired) but here's some details
Rd 1 vs ANT 2-1
Rd 2 vs Burn 2-0
Rd 3 vs BUG Delver 1-2 ( Yah I lose to delver and beat burn, omni, and ANT :^) )
Rd 4 vs U Omni 2-1 (he gets a game 1 loss)
Rd 5 vs Grixis Delver 2-1
First place in swiss, on the play every game 1 for to 8 yeyeh
Rd 1 vs Mono U Omni again, 2-1 same guy (survived an emmy hit and got to keep Thalia + Teeg in play to lethal him)
Rd 2 Vs DnT 2-1, really awesome, close (long), fun games
Rd 3 vs Eldrazi 2-1
Special Note - I was wrong about Heretic Cathar, I played 2 of her today and she was amaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaazing, jfc. I made slight tweaks to my list (like playing duress instead of thoughtseize, putting the 4th Thalia Guardian of the Galaxy back in, and playing the 3rd surgical) mostly to deal with clowns like burn and degenerate combo.
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Scrubland
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sylvan Library
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Noble Hierarch
4 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Knight of the Reliquary
SB
2 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
Special Note #2 - won the door prize as well, the GP Brainstorm mat. #AlwaysLucky #NoJustice
Play of the game - Vs DNT. (I forget most of the board state and such but Opp has Sword of War and Peace in hand and 2 unknowns.) I have double mom up and he swings in with his mirran crusader. I say screw it and yell "yugioh!!!!" and double block with both moms and just pro white them both. No Plow, his crusader dies. #NoFear
I see many DnT and Maverick lists now boasting War and Peace and I get why but has it performed really well for anyone so far?
I would have to take Light and Shadow out of the side to fit War and Peace as they kinda occupy the same spot.
Also regarding THC, she has been really usefull so far. Either she hate a removal on the same turn she came down or she was a house, no exception.
It feels so great to wasteland a miracles player as this is not usually possible :)
We can now play a mana denial strategy much closer to DnT's, which helps in lots of situations.
My rankings at the moment: Jitte > Fire/Ice > Light/Shadow and Batterskull > Feast/Famine > Body/Mind and War/Peace
We can split hairs on Batterskull but it's a clear 3rd pick behind Jitte and Fire/Ice. I wouldn't run War/Peace. I've done it in the past and unless the meta is heavy on burn and/or patriot, you don't need it. Light/Shadow gives colors and perks worth running. Or you can decide to be aggro and drop the germ.
The real question I ask myself is whether I want 2 or 3 SFM. 2 is my standard amount. But 3 yesterday was smooth as butter. I was always threatening.
I have both L&S and Bskull in my side atm and I like it this way quite frankly. Was just wondering if people were having much success with another equip.
2 SFM has been plenty for me in the past. I wouldn't go over it since I feel we are low on flex slots since THC came in (I feel 2 of her belongs to the core now).
I already cut 1 Kotr and not running Hierarch.. can't imagine cutting something else for a card that only fetches equips.
I switch between the 2 swords all the time and mostly play them for the "protection from white" text. I'm sure I'll sleeve up Light/Shadow in the future
Light and Shadow is insane when you get it's recur a creature ability to work (and looping pridemages is a dream come true) but having a creature in your graveyard is surprisingly hard against White decks. War and Peace also just helps us kill our opponent, which I respect vs miracles. If Jund saw more play I'd enjoy Light and Shadow more because the protection from black is good there and you get to recur creatures all the time (though they have 1000 ways to kill equipment anyways haha).
If you're running BSkull I'd play the 3rd SFM, Skull is a clunker without her. I personally don't play them just for space issues. I've also tried Lightning Greaves in the past for miracles, it was .... ok.
I also think we should be playing 4 Deathrite Shaman, I like having the noble to GSZ for because there's some games where Shaman just can't make mana and Exalted is a really good ability but in most cases DRS is just so powerful. Also having a DRS battle with your opponent probably favours you because you just play more lands than them and stuff like Thalia.
Shaving KotR!? She's arguably the best card in the deck.
@DRS: 4 is too much. Noble also gives you exalted perks + doesn't need lands in the grave to produce mana --- something I'm noticing isn't a given anymore (Eldrazi and DnT in particular). I like 5 dorks. I'm considering running 3 nobles due to their effects in a fair meta.
DRS doesn't even feel like a fair card most of the time, I'm never unhappy to see him as at worst he can attack for 1 (even with other creatures). Like sure it sucks if you play DRS and your opponent blood moons you turn one and you don't have basics, then yes Noble is a lot better there but that's magic. I'm also miffed at DRS making me not want to run Cavern of Souls anymore. All in all though playing 3 DRS and 2 Noble vs 4 and 1 probably makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things. I've also been tempted to play more nobles at times.
Also I'd never shave Knight - my favourite card. Started standard in Alara/Zen and played 4 knights, then when she rotated I started legacy (with NO Bant) and played 4 of her ever since. With that being said it's hard to say a single card is objectively the 'best' but if I was forced to choose, I'd have to say Green Sun's Zenith is the best card in our deck.
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