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Thread: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

  1. #8461

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    I disagree a lot with that article, I've done my own analysis for several decks over the years. The real number is much higher than what Frank Karsten suggests for mana sources, the problem is that in order to get good and consistent turns 1-3 you often times end up reducing the effectiveness of your future turns. As a result, what you actually want is high mana generation combined with a bunch of optimal mana sinks. This is why Deathrite Shaman is so fantastic, not to mention Wasteland (if you can use the mana).



    This is where variable costs come into play. GSZ fits into every slot on your curve, Reliquary is resoruce conversion, Cradle is another type of acceleration, and so on. I think that what you're specifically looking for isn't a magic number of lands, but rather efficient uses for your mana.
    My experience with this article over multiple formats have been more helpful than not. As an example, my current Maverick list runs 14 white sources, 14 green sources, and 10 black sources. This means I reliably cast either Mom or a mana dork on turn 1, while having access to DRS drains on turn 5 or so.

    However, the article here focuses on minimum numbers, not optimal numbers. For example, his math suggests that getting GGG by turn 3 requires around 16 green sources--which is relevant for decks running Scavenging Ooze who wants to be able to have 2-3 green sources up even if they're still casting green spells each turn. As someone who runs only 14 sources of G, i actually feel this tightness in green mana every time the game shifts to scooze game.

    My preferred mana goals is usually 2 more sources than this article prescribes, but I often aim to never go below the minimums this article prescribes. And when I run a deck like Maverick that needs utility lands and who sacrifices its own lands for Knight activations--I often find myself really forced to stretch thin my colors to maximize late game strength.

  2. #8462

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    So should i cut the GQ for another canopy? I think Ramunap is still useful with just wasteland but I'm not sure.

  3. #8463
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    GQ is very good, I played already a lot of games when it just won me game by "strip mining" basic lands (used bth with Railler and Ramunap). I would rather found slot in nonland cards -> to put 8th fetchland.

  4. #8464
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    My friend Ethan Gaieski did an analysis on Punishing Maverick that he posted on Reddit last night. I think sharing it with you fine folks would be swell!
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...rick_decklist/
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  5. #8465

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    My friend Ethan Gaieski did an analysis on Punishing Maverick that he posted on Reddit last night. I think sharing it with you fine folks would be swell!
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...rick_decklist/
    Thanks! I am always stoked to see his lists pop up on goldfish and am glad to read the reasons behind some of his choices. I was thinking about shifting back to Pun Mav for paper events and this is pushing me fairly hard in that direction.
    Mom-mom had to die because of the ground chemicals. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10272003

  6. #8466

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by TMagpie View Post
    My experience with this article over multiple formats have been more helpful than not. As an example, my current Maverick list runs 14 white sources, 14 green sources, and 10 black sources. This means I reliably cast either Mom or a mana dork on turn 1, while having access to DRS drains on turn 5 or so.
    I think the reason it's helpful is that following his guidelines generally leads players to play more lands than their instincts tell them to play. However, as I said... I've run my own analysis with several different decks. I took a similar approach to what Frank Karsten did when he tried to figure out mana curves via simulation, except I made a slightly more robust program... which eventually developed into a full blown Magic AI for certain decks. What I found was that regardless of if you were goldfishing or playing against an opponent, more lands generally made you win faster. In fact, with a deck like Burn (I posted many of my results in the Burn thread here, so you can go back and look at them if interested) the optimal land count was 26, which is very unintuitive. With a deck like Maverick which has many lines of play and more varied sources of mana as well as mana sinks it gets a bit more complicated.

    What I can say though, is that the combination of GSZ (especially with a Dryad Arbor in there), DRS, and Wasteland, gives you a very versatile curve that can fit almost any hand. I bet a solid case could still be made for 24 being an optimal land count, but due to GSZ and the power of it being able to tutor (and therefore, scale in power based on the number of targets it has), there's probably a solid argument to be made that a compromise of 23 is better.

    I would love to get my simulator to the point that it can play Maverick but high decision tree cards like GSZ and Knight of the Reliquary are extremely difficult to implement.

  7. #8467

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    I am intrigued to learn more about your algorithm.

  8. #8468

    [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    .

    I would love to get my simulator to the point that it can play Maverick but high decision tree cards like GSZ and Knight of the Reliquary are extremely difficult to implement.
    Not to mention sylvan library-esque cards, right? Do your algoritm also handle the blue cantrip cartel? Ive heard the idea that 4 cantrips replaces one land, but that seem to be taken out if the air - especially since it lumps together ponder (THE land finder) with gitaxian probe (digs nowhere) and impulse (requires 2 mana to cast).

  9. #8469

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    Not to mention sylvan library-esque cards, right? Do your algoritm also handle the blue cantrip cartel? Ive heard the idea that 4 cantrips replaces one land, but that seem to be taken out if the air - especially since it lumps together ponder (THE land finder) with gitaxian probe (digs nowhere) and impulse (requires 2 mana to cast).
    It can handle cantrips, that's not too hard (the whole thing was originally built to test SDT in Burn, so the approach was one where cantrips would be easy to test). The approach I took was to rate each card contextually based on if it trades, replaces itself, slows the opponents clock, or speeds your own clock (there's a couple other factors too, but I don't remember them offhand, haven't looked at the code in a couple months). Then it plays, selects, etc cards that rate higher. Cantrips have actually performed rather poorly as a whole, not to say they're bad, but I think they're over rated a bit. Their biggest value is that they let you significantly increase your blue card count for FoW.

    When it comes to Sylvan Library, it seems simple enough to evaluate, you sort the cards, then for cards 2 and 3 you just evaluate if they're still worth it if they cost an extra 4 life for the effect.

    GSZ is hard because it involves two choices, first is the choice of when to cast it, which impacts how much you cast it for, and second is the choice of what to get. The algorithm I use will almost always delay the card for a more powerful effect, rather than fire it off early for something like a DRS. I haven't figured out a good way to implement it yet. KotR has a similar issue, because it has to evaluate a clock vs a tutor, and if it tutors, what it should get.

    Quote Originally Posted by TMagpie View Post
    I am intrigued to learn more about your algorithm.
    It's focused mainly on speed. Some others have tried similar things before where they simulate games based on perfect play which takes a long time to simulate. I took a different route, I just try to make easy to calculate good plays and make up for quality with quantity. Then I record all the plays in a database. From there I can look to the data for similarities between good and bad games.

  10. #8470

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    So I took out the decays and GQ mainboard. Added a Pridemage, Teeg, and another canopy mainboard. It feels really solid at this point. The mana feels much smoother with the added G/W source.

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/749453#online

  11. #8471
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Good changes looking for feedback how it will be working with two Canopies.

  12. #8472

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    Good changes looking for feedback how it will be working with two Canopies.
    So far I am liking at a lot, being able to draw cards late game with Ramunap is a real thing if wasteland lock isnt viable and Leo took your library offline (This happens surprisingly often with how much play Leo is seeing). Also normally I only have to take 2 or 3 damage off of it for a land before I am flush enough just to start sacking it, which isn't a big deal when you're able to connect with Jitte so easily through Moms and Scryb Ranger. Not really missing decay at all in the main since I went up on pridemages which help with anything problematic like Chalices and Moons. Still iffy on a few matchups but that might be a side boarding thing, most notably BR reanimator, the lack of surgicals hurts here, but the deck is on such a huge downswing that I am not really concerned about it. I think my view of the matchup got tarnished by a match where they kept 7 both games which I know from experience with reanimator it is not a common thing.

  13. #8473

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    I've been dark for a while, but I'm going to go play with EE7 with my baby brew. I've changed some things.

    Here's my list.
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/maver...ternal-garden/

    Here's a rough SB Guide that I've been writing. Besides the shitty grammer, and the terrible non-complete sentences. Let me know any feedback.

    Sideboard Guide
    Grixis Delver: Favorable.

    • Keep their Deathrite and Young Pyro off the table. That’s how they win by massive tokens and drain effects. Focus on Getting Knight down and getting her big.
    • There are two types of Delvers: Stifle vs Cabal. Identify key signs of what type of deck your facing (If they go play fetch, pass. Don’t crack your fetch, you can afford to play it safe, don’t be reckless).
    • Watch out cards: Dread of Night/Fiery Convent, Abrade. Game 2/3, get Sigarda on table and start swinging. True Name Nemesis can be annoying, but if you have Alliance/ Zealous, you are in a good spot.
    Burn: UnFavorable
    • Game 1 will be tough, resolve Jitte and start swinging. Be on the lookout for Price effects and Fireblast. Mom + Thalia + Jitte should do the trick. Don’t be afraid to swords your Knight, that’s how you survive the longer game if it comes down to it.
    • Watch out cards: Smash to Smitheereens, this card will be very annoying. Between Canonist and Jitte, prioritize which one that you can afford to get smash.

    Death and Taxes: Most Favorable
    • Game 1 don’t drop Thalia, because she is a dead card. They have more Karakas than you. Focus on resolving Sigarda and equip it with Jitte. Remove their Mom as fast as possible, the player who assembles two Moms will most likely win the game. Mom + Scryb is how we ensemble our soft lock. With Qasli Pridemage: You need to understand which artifact to destroy. Depending on the board state, hitting the swords is correct, then Vials.
    • Watch out cards: They are probably bring in paths, containment priest, and maybe Councils. Slam Sigarda and go to town.

    BR Reanimator: Most Unfavorable
    • You are fighting an uphill battle. Between Unmask, Annex, and Thoughtseize. You don’t have permission to stop their combo. Most likely they are getting Griselbrand, followed by Elesh Norn, to kill our smaller creatures. You need to find a Swords for TIdespout because that’s how they truly win. Resolve Thalia, and aggressive hit their lands, or find Knight and get Karakas/Maze.
    • Cards to watch Out: Collective Brutality is a killer card against us.. You bring in a lot of hate. slam priest down and protect her. They have the option to bring in Sneak Attack, at which point make sure you have Pridemage active, and maze ready.

    4c Leovold/4c Control: 50/50.
    • We can get buried if they draw too much from either Leovold, or Sylan Library. They can also attack us in different ways (removal spells, and discard spells). Jace is primary there win con, at which point. Your primary objective is to get Sigarda online and equipped with Sophie. Knights can get there, but they run Abrupt Decay and Push. Just be mindful of not trying to overextend into a Deluge.
    • Beware Cards: Diabolic Edict, Keranos God of Storms, and Toxic Deluge. The only creature that really needs to be removed is leovold. Canonist can help slow down the card spells and removal spells.


    Miracles: Unfavorable
    • This deck can get out of hand quickly. Between Snaps and mentors, you need to win the game quickly. Two Soft lock to know.
    1.) Mom + Gaddock/Thalia+ Scryb = No Jace + Terminus, slows down cantrips and removal.
    2.) Sigarda, Host of Herons + Karakas
    • Beware Cards: Containment Preist, Councils, Entreat. You really can’t beat Entreat. The two cards to surgical is 1.) Swords to plowshares and then 2.) Entreat. Everything else can be destroyed. You really don’t care about blood mon and Back to basics. Fetch correctly and you will be fine.


    Lands: 50/50
    • This match-up is complicated. There are two cards that you should focus on game 1.) Loam and Fire. We have a lot of answers for them making 20/20s. Don’t go to the wasteland game plan. You won’t be able to lock them out. All they need is one green source and they can reestablished. Maze of Ith/Thespian Stage/ Chasm is how they are trying to stall out until they have P.Fire ready or 20/20 ready. Tabernacle is another annoying card. Which is the only card to wasteland. Remove Explorations ASAP! Protect DRS and Mom.
    • Beware Cards: Drop of Honey, Devastation Dreams, Pyroclasm, Burning Wish. Surgical is very key to win this match. Some of the lands are on the Burning wish package, which will purposefully side out a copy of Loam. My recommendation is to wait until they burning wish, and then surgical. So that you can remove all copies effective. You might not have enough mana, but if you find yourself to be able to cast Sigarda, do so, and try to protect her.
    • Synergerization is a key to beat this deck. Think of maverick as a machine. Here are some locks to be aware. IF anything. Do not allow them to kill Scryb Ranger. Keep her alive, because she is the key to win.
    1.) Mom + Thalia + Scryb = slows down P.Fire
    2.) DRS + Scryb = 2 activations
    3.) Knight + Scryb/Maze = 2 activations

    Show and Tell: Most Unfavorable
    • This match-up is complicated, for one reason. When they resolve show and Tell, you don’t know what’s coming. There are four options; Emrakul, Omnisceince, Griselbrand, and Sneak Attack. Its very hard to choose which card to reveal so I’m going to give you the most optimal choices to pick.
    1.) If you predict that they are going to reveal Griselbrand, choose Knight or Karakas
    2.) IF you predict that they are going to reveal Emrakul, choose Knight, karakas, or Sigarda.
    3.) If you predict that they are going to reveal Omniscience, choose Thalia or Pridemage,
    4.) If you predict that they are going to reveal Sneak Attack, choose Karakas or Pridemage
    • I would not try to jam stoneforge, but that’s your only way to apply pressure, then go for it. Knights and Sigarda’s are your key beaters.
    • Beware cards: Pyroclasm/Kozliek’s Return. Release the Ants combo. Sudden Shock. Try not to overextend. Jam Canonist as fast as possible, and then jam Priest in response to either Show and Tell or Sneak Attack.

    Deathblade/Stoneblade: 50/50
    • This will be a grindy game. They can come from different angles, but more of less. Eliminating the stoneblade part isn’t the problem. True Name and Jace are problematic cards that you are just going to have to accept and start racing them. Scryb Ranger + Sophie helps in the air. They don’t run that many non-creature spells. So don’t focus on just jamming Thalia’s. Mom + Knight or just Sigarda is to way to win.
    • Beware cards: All sweepers. Sigarda + Sophie should be light’s out for them.

    Storm: 50/50
    • Two things to note. One, which type of storm, because if your opponent is playing TES, then you want to jam as much creatures as you can because of goblins. The other note is that if you are playing against ANT. A resolve Gaddock Teeg wins the game. They don’t have any MD cards to kill him.
    • This match you would want to mulligan aggressively. Because of the nature of this match, you need find a hatebear
    • Beware cards: Chain of Vapor, Dread of Night, Massacre, Abrade. Its important to know which two drop to jam. In order, its Canonist, then Gaddock Teeg, then Thalia. If you can avoid it, avoid playing a plains. Either use it from Horizon Canopy or mana dorks. But that’s the quickest way to lose your board control.

    4c Loam: Favorable.
    • This deck is resilient in a lot of ways. From recurring back lands to GSZ Knights, it can be problematic. I find that to win this match, Mom + Knight/Scryb Ranger is Key. Sigarda will protect you from LoTV. Don’t allow them to have Bob, and swords their Knights. IF they are on the 20/20 plan, keep Scryb Ranger alive. Scaenging Ooze + Gaea’s Cradle will do a lot
    • Beware Cards: Toxic Deluge, Chandra, Tourch of Defiance, Leyline of the Void. Generally, you Don’t really care about Leyline, but since we are running Excavator, this is needs to be removed at all cost.

    Eldrazi: Mostly Favorable.
    • Really simple. Don’t even bother playing Mom or Thalia. Jam Knights and waste them out of the game. IF you suspect that they are White Eldrazi, then its ok playing Mom. Just don’t jam Thalia,
    • Beware Cards: Endbringer/All is Dust/Karn. Endbringer is really annoying, the only way to remove this wanna be planeswalker is swords. Don’t waste your Swords on the smaller creatures. TKS, RS, EB are the three biggest targets.

  14. #8474
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Feedback is comming :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    I've been dark for a while, but I'm going to go play with EE7 with my baby brew. I've changed some things.

    Here's my list.
    http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/maver...ternal-garden/

    Here's a rough SB Guide that I've been writing. Besides the shitty grammer, and the terrible non-complete sentences. Let me know any feedback.

    Sideboard Guide
    Grixis Delver: Favorable.

    • Keep their Deathrite and Young Pyro off the table. That’s how they win by massive tokens and drain effects. Focus on Getting Knight down and getting her big.
    • There are two types of Delvers: Stifle vs Cabal. Identify key signs of what type of deck your facing (If they go play fetch, pass. Don’t crack your fetch, you can afford to play it safe, don’t be reckless).
    • Watch out cards: Dread of Night/Fiery Convent, Abrade. Game 2/3, get Sigarda on table and start swinging. True Name Nemesis can be annoying, but if you have Alliance/ Zealous, you are in a good spot.
    It's much different strategy on play and on draw. Sigarda will be really nice but it cost a lot of mana, resource fight will be key factor, specially vs stifle version.
    On play even vs stifle version, they mostly side out stifles since we running too much mana dorks, some players will keep stifles to have protection against our wastelands. Factor which wasn't noted was pressure on opponent graveyard. Ooze can be very good here, specially that he will have a lot of food since they running non-exiling removal. Beware K.command, before developing equip try to cut their resources, it's very possible to lock them completely with help of Railler and Ramunap. I wouldn't keep Sigarda MD in g2 and g3 since it's very expensive and most time it will be rotting on hand, but again - Grixs have two version - tempo one, and control one vs control (no delver) - keep it, vs tempo (delver one) I would side out - better side in removal in her slot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    Burn: UnFavorable
    • Game 1 will be tough, resolve Jitte and start swinging. Be on the lookout for Price effects and Fireblast. Mom + Thalia + Jitte should do the trick. Don’t be afraid to swords your Knight, that’s how you survive the longer game if it comes down to it.
    • Watch out cards: Smash to Smitheereens, this card will be very annoying. Between Canonist and Jitte, prioritize which one that you can afford to get smash.
    Shamans, removal and Ooze will be your option to answer Burn even without equips (against Smash to Smithereens), also bigger then 3/3 Knight of the Reliquary can be very handy, connected with Sylvan Safekeeper generate brutal clock, Safekeeper also safe you from Price effect and Gaddock from fireblasts. They will bring a lot of removal + bolt option which is probably the most brutal vs us. Remember that Eidolon can works on our side since we can dodge dmg from it by GSZ.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    Death and Taxes: Most Favorable
    • Game 1 don’t drop Thalia, because she is a dead card. They have more Karakas than you. Focus on resolving Sigarda and equip it with Jitte. Remove their Mom as fast as possible, the player who assembles two Moms will most likely win the game. Mom + Scryb is how we ensemble our soft lock. With Qasli Pridemage: You need to understand which artifact to destroy. Depending on the board state, hitting the swords is correct, then Vials.
    • Watch out cards: They are probably bring in paths, containment priest, and maybe Councils. Slam Sigarda and go to town.
    Keep hand with removal vs mom, and destroy vial ASAP, if they deploy 3rd counter it's mostly too late to blow it. The best creature they run vs us - Flickerwisp. I would rather say it's 50/50 matchup dependent on sb cards and starting hand - if you will have enough artifact removal (2 is minimum) you will win, moms easily dies to sb cards like zealous persecution.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    BR Reanimator: Most Unfavorable
    • You are fighting an uphill battle. Between Unmask, Annex, and Thoughtseize. You don’t have permission to stop their combo. Most likely they are getting Griselbrand, followed by Elesh Norn, to kill our smaller creatures. You need to find a Swords for TIdespout because that’s how they truly win. Resolve Thalia, and aggressive hit their lands, or find Knight and get Karakas/Maze.
    • Cards to watch Out: Collective Brutality is a killer card against us.. You bring in a lot of hate. slam priest down and protect her. They have the option to bring in Sneak Attack, at which point make sure you have Pridemage active, and maze ready.
    Thalia is probably best card against them, along with Shamans, if they don't go off turn 1-2 it's a big change to win, also resolved Knight is a big deal for us. Better then surgicals are fearie macabre since they works fine under Annex taxing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    4c Leovold/4c Control: 50/50.
    • We can get buried if they draw too much from either Leovold, or Sylan Library. They can also attack us in different ways (removal spells, and discard spells). Jace is primary there win con, at which point. Your primary objective is to get Sigarda online and equipped with Sophie. Knights can get there, but they run Abrupt Decay and Push. Just be mindful of not trying to overextend into a Deluge.
    • Beware Cards: Diabolic Edict, Keranos God of Storms, and Toxic Deluge. The only creature that really needs to be removed is leovold. Canonist can help slow down the card spells and removal spells.
    Interesting thing is that I found this matchup is quite easy. Resolved Sigarda mostly close up this matchup. Also aggressive attack on opponent mana base can cut of their key cards like Jace/Keranos or even Deluge - if taxed by Thalia. 70% of this matchup I ended by blowing last land from their side. Since they side in mostly removal I bring in recursion like life from the loam or Sword of Light and Shadow which also works very well. Don't worry about Leo, if you can deploy Knight with protection, just bounce it (if you can't kill it) and keep pressure on their mana base, assemble recursion with Ramunap and match will be mostly yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    Miracles: Unfavorable
    • This deck can get out of hand quickly. Between Snaps and mentors, you need to win the game quickly. Two Soft lock to know.
    1.) Mom + Gaddock/Thalia+ Scryb = No Jace + Terminus, slows down cantrips and removal.
    2.) Sigarda, Host of Herons + Karakas
    • Beware Cards: Containment Preist, Councils, Entreat. You really can’t beat Entreat. The two cards to surgical is 1.) Swords to plowshares and then 2.) Entreat. Everything else can be destroyed. You really don’t care about blood mon and Back to basics. Fetch correctly and you will be fine.
    Choke in proper time will give you an edge over, same is true for blow up plains and tundras. Keep only decay's as removal vs Mentor. StP should be side out. You can try to surgical their STP, but this plan isn't perfectly IMO since it's card disadvantage, focus on gaining not losing, so use good Tracker and Ramunap. Keep pressure but not more then 2 creatures at once. Use equips and Dryad arbor extensively.
    It's 50/50 after SB from mine notes. Sylvan Safekeeper is a beast vs, since it can be easily Zenithed back after Terminus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    Lands: 50/50
    • This match-up is complicated. There are two cards that you should focus on game 1.) Loam and Fire. We have a lot of answers for them making 20/20s. Don’t go to the wasteland game plan. You won’t be able to lock them out. All they need is one green source and they can reestablished. Maze of Ith/Thespian Stage/ Chasm is how they are trying to stall out until they have P.Fire ready or 20/20 ready. Tabernacle is another annoying card. Which is the only card to wasteland. Remove Explorations ASAP! Protect DRS and Mom.
    • Beware Cards: Drop of Honey, Devastation Dreams, Pyroclasm, Burning Wish. Surgical is very key to win this match. Some of the lands are on the Burning wish package, which will purposefully side out a copy of Loam. My recommendation is to wait until they burning wish, and then surgical. So that you can remove all copies effective. You might not have enough mana, but if you find yourself to be able to cast Sigarda, do so, and try to protect her.
    • Synergerization is a key to beat this deck. Think of maverick as a machine. Here are some locks to be aware. IF anything. Do not allow them to kill Scryb Ranger. Keep her alive, because she is the key to win.
    1.) Mom + Thalia + Scryb = slows down P.Fire
    2.) DRS + Scryb = 2 activations
    3.) Knight + Scryb/Maze = 2 activations
    You mixed two different decks Aggro Loam and R/G combo lands.
    R/G combo lands doesn't use Burning Wish, they use Gamble.
    Aggro Loam doesn't use Exploration, and have Chalice.

    Aggro loam matchup is like an mirror mana base will be key factor, an option to remove opponent gy, so Bojuka Bog, Ooze and Shamans will be key cards. They run quite a lot of removal - decay's, punishing fire and many Liliana's. Best finisher will be Sigarda if you win resource fight. Other option is Safekeeper and Knight. Don't ignore their moxies, if you can blow it - do it. Thalia will help to clock their removal.

    R/G lands is different beast they doesn't run any other removal (MD) then punishing fire. They are focused on fast token, and limiting resources - vs them you will be fightning for your own resources - as ThunderKnight said - don't try to lock them, better slow their key cards, and pressure. Thalia is very good here. Keep eating their graveyard - scavenging ooze is their nightmare. Keep answer vs fast token, and fetch properly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    Show and Tell: Most Unfavorable
    • This match-up is complicated, for one reason. When they resolve show and Tell, you don’t know what’s coming. There are four options; Emrakul, Omnisceince, Griselbrand, and Sneak Attack. Its very hard to choose which card to reveal so I’m going to give you the most optimal choices to pick.
    1.) If you predict that they are going to reveal Griselbrand, choose Knight or Karakas
    2.) IF you predict that they are going to reveal Emrakul, choose Knight, karakas, or Sigarda.
    3.) If you predict that they are going to reveal Omniscience, choose Thalia or Pridemage,
    4.) If you predict that they are going to reveal Sneak Attack, choose Karakas or Pridemage
    • I would not try to jam stoneforge, but that’s your only way to apply pressure, then go for it. Knights and Sigarda’s are your key beaters.
    • Beware cards: Pyroclasm/Kozliek’s Return. Release the Ants combo. Sudden Shock. Try not to overextend. Jam Canonist as fast as possible, and then jam Priest in response to either Show and Tell or Sneak Attack.
    I use here Chokes to close their cantrip route for perfect hand -> S&T -> Omni-> Emmy, also any discard is really needed. Many times you will have one Knight on hand and it's always question - if they counter it - they will S&T easily, but they don't know that it's last knight, so keep that in mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    Deathblade/Stoneblade: 50/50
    • This will be a grindy game. They can come from different angles, but more of less. Eliminating the stoneblade part isn’t the problem. True Name and Jace are problematic cards that you are just going to have to accept and start racing them. Scryb Ranger + Sophie helps in the air. They don’t run that many non-creature spells. So don’t focus on just jamming Thalia’s. Mom + Knight or just Sigarda is to way to win.
    • Beware cards: All sweepers. Sigarda + Sophie should be light’s out for them.
    Without equips they mostly just an removal heavy deck, so attack their tricolor manabase. Fully agreed on your own equips and Sigarda. Safekeeper here is MVP, can push Knight here, but TNN can be problematic without SOFI - so don't lose it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    Storm: 50/50
    • Two things to note. One, which type of storm, because if your opponent is playing TES, then you want to jam as much creatures as you can because of goblins. The other note is that if you are playing against ANT. A resolve Gaddock Teeg wins the game. They don’t have any MD cards to kill him.
    • This match you would want to mulligan aggressively. Because of the nature of this match, you need find a hatebear
    • Beware cards: Chain of Vapor, Dread of Night, Massacre, Abrade. Its important to know which two drop to jam. In order, its Canonist, then Gaddock Teeg, then Thalia. If you can avoid it, avoid playing a plains. Either use it from Horizon Canopy or mana dorks. But that’s the quickest way to lose your board control.
    Gaddock close up Massacre :-), vs TES side in some Zealous Persecution against EtW plan, can be also useful to fake math and push additional damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    4c Loam: Favorable.
    • This deck is resilient in a lot of ways. From recurring back lands to GSZ Knights, it can be problematic. I find that to win this match, Mom + Knight/Scryb Ranger is Key. Sigarda will protect you from LoTV. Don’t allow them to have Bob, and swords their Knights. IF they are on the 20/20 plan, keep Scryb Ranger alive. Scaenging Ooze + Gaea’s Cradle will do a lot
    • Beware Cards: Toxic Deluge, Chandra, Tourch of Defiance, Leyline of the Void. Generally, you Don’t really care about Leyline, but since we are running Excavator, this is needs to be removed at all cost.
    Already described. Agree on all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunderknight View Post
    Eldrazi: Mostly Favorable.
    • Really simple. Don’t even bother playing Mom or Thalia. Jam Knights and waste them out of the game. IF you suspect that they are White Eldrazi, then its ok playing Mom. Just don’t jam Thalia,
    • Beware Cards: Endbringer/All is Dust/Karn. Endbringer is really annoying, the only way to remove this wanna be planeswalker is swords. Don’t waste your Swords on the smaller creatures. TKS, RS, EB are the three biggest targets.
    Path's and GQ will also have an edge. This and probably burn matchup are the only reason to still keeping Batterskull somewhere in 75, but it's not obligatory. Gaddock Teeg can be all start here against All is Dust.

    Well done Thunderknight, a lot of work done.
    Cheers !

  15. #8475
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    My friend Ethan Gaieski did an analysis on Punishing Maverick that he posted on Reddit last night. I think sharing it with you fine folks would be swell!
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...rick_decklist/
    Reading this the other day made me excited to play Maverick again. Previous attempts went too far into black and made me far too reliant on DRS, but this way looks fun!

  16. #8476

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Played in an Eternal Weekend Trail this saturday, made top 4 and then we all split. Was running on no sleep, fueled purely by several sugary beverages as I had to work all throughout the night right before the event.

    I was playing what looks on paper to be a complete mess of a list but I swear I put a bunch of thought into it. The 2 Hymns and Harm's Way in the board were the last 3 cards added and I was pretty much like "how does my current list ever beat burn, I don't want to play super narrow cards ... well I guess Harm's Way can also nail red delver decks and protect me from Koz. Return... Hymn is just Hymn."

    Sideboard-15

    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Harm's Way
    2 Zealous Persecution
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Liliana, The Last Hope
    2 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Surigcal Extraction

    Main-60

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Savannah
    1 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    2 Forest
    1 Swamp
    1 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Dryad Arbor
    4 Wasteland
    -23-

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    -13-

    3 Mother of Runes
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Noble Hierarch
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Renegade Rallier
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    -24-

    I'm playing the swamp over Gaea's Cradle to support me being deeper into black, having a black source that doesn't get nailed by wasteland and it's ilk really helps.

    I've been really down on stoneforge package lately, it's too slow vs creature combo decks like elves//infect, almost impossible to stick to a creature against burn and the last matchup where it would be insane is vs slower control decks but a lot of those have Leovold and Sofi and Jitte are both pretty awk against him (I need to race so here you can draw a card and I won't...) I have an elspeth main so in those slower matchups I can jump over stuff like Leovold/TNN and kill them easily, sometimes you just have to ask yourself "what would kibler do".


    Thoughtseize has been insane, the only matchups I feel where it's blegh are obviously burn (and burnlike decks ie UR Delver, and then we just swap it for IoK) The information itself helps us make our plays so much easier, now we know what to Zenith for and when to cast it, our deck has so many decisions to make and having information is so valuable. Discard can also act as protection for your guys by ripping removal or removal itself by ripping a card like True Name. It also makes our combo matchup way better when they not only have to deal with permanent based interaction, but discard as well. TLDR; Thoughtseize protec, but it also atac.

    My 2nd pridemage became a renegade rallier, my reasoning was if I ever needed the 2nd cat it'd be late enough that I'd have the mana to go get a rallier -> cat instead and rallier has the upside of doing other stuff and is a huge tempo play.

    I didn't really take notes and I was super tired so memory not too clear but I'll do my best.

    Rd 1 vs Miracles ft Gideon and no Mentor

    I win 2-1, game 1 was grindy after I turn 1 Thoughtseize his 6 taking his brainstorm and leaving him with lands, predict and a terminus. Elspeth domed him for 10 in the air putting him to 1 and even though he rips terminus into gideon kill elspeth he can't stabilize and some dork kills him after I drop a bunch fueled by my Sylvan Library. My maindeck seems really good vs this but I cut 2 plows for game 2 and then the rest of them for game 3 after I believe he's not on mentor and never pluses gideon vs open white. I bring in IoK's and then I believe a miser's Harm's Way ( for Koz Return) and a hymn but not 100% sure on what I boarded. Game 2 I lose after getting Koz Return -> Jace and I draw my 2 plows in a row. Game 3 is a blank space, sorry.

    Rd 2 vs burn 2-1

    This time it's my turn to mulligan to 6 on the draw my hand is decent but I just need that little bit more, I scry and see Thoughtseize "perfect!" I think, card will be great vs everything but burn! Op opens with turn 1 mountain -> Swiftspear...fk
    I play a Deathrite and pass which gets searing blazed and I take 5 on turn 2, I never get back into the game.

    In-

    Harms Way (never draw it :( )
    Golgari Charm
    2 Hymn
    2 Inquistion

    Out-

    3 Thoughtseize
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Elspeth
    1 Phrexian Revoker

    Game 2 is a close one, IoK's were huge here and I get to see he has smash in his deck vs my no equipment :3 (just have to be careful playing revoker) There gets to be a point where I'm at 3 but I have an active knight and Im holding a plow that he knows about thanks to Guide, he eventually succumbs to deathrite drains.

    Game 3 was close with a lot of trades, I remember throwing spare thalias in front of swiftspears that I know he can prowess just to get more life off my deathrite shamans. Near the end of the game I'm so far ahead I end up playing a revoker while knowing he has a smash in his hand "what do you name" "Abandon Hope" and a few turns later I drain him out with Scryb Ranger -> DRS take 4 on my turn, pass, on your upkeep kill you

    Rd 3 vs UW Stoneblade 2-0

    game 1 I start with turn 1 DRS then turn 2 Hierarch attack for 2 with shaman turn 3 Elspeth which meets brainstorm into force of will. I get a sylvan library online while I'm at 25 (fun fact I take myself down to 3 just with my library this game). I get supreme verdicted some time during this game but that's ok. My opponent stoneforges for a jitte and I pridemage it then Zenith for rallier getting back pridemage. Near the end of the game I have Arbor, mom and noble in play and he's on pretty much no cards. He plays a Palace Jailer and mom gives my creature a get out of jail free card. I mom my arbor past the jailer on my turn and take the crown(tm) just drawing so many cards at this point. He dies shortly after.

    In

    2 Zealous Persecution
    1 Golgari Charm
    2 Inqusition of Kozilek

    Out

    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    1 Swords to Plowshares

    I didn't see truename game 1 but I'm kind of scared of it. I cut a plow because the only creatures I really saw game 1 were Snapcaster and SFM.

    Game 2 I have noble into pridmage and I just start wailing on him for 4 a turn. I get a mom and teeg set up sometime and continue to bash him with double exalted. He tries to verdict at some point and I just point at my teeg, he dies this game without putting up much of a fight.

    Rd 4

    I pick Zelda at the character select screen and hit down - B, instantly jumping 20 spots in the tier list. Despite this I still lose to Young Link due to being bad ... As for magic it was 5 rounds and I can just draw -> draw into top 8 like the degen spike I am (Kappa)

    Top 8, everyone talks about splitting the top 8 and I kinda don't want to but I'm not going to be "that" guy and I'll split if everyone else wants to. Thankfully my friend Gamon is that guy so we play the quarters, I'm playing against my friend on storm who knows my exact list.

    Quarters - ANT 2-0

    He gets to be on the play and he starts with turn 1 Badlands -> Cabal Therapy naming Thoughtseize ... thanks friend, he hits. This makes me believe he can go off the next turn if he didn't name something like Thalia so I decide instead of playing Deathrite I'll do the only play I have left that can disrupt him, I wasteland his badlands. His next turn I forget if he cantrips or not but he plays another land. My turn consists of Bayou and deathrite shaman. His turn 3 is an Ad Nauseum with 0 mana floating but he has his land drop, the kicker though is that his only copy of Tendrils was discard with Lion's Eye Diamond so 1- if he passes my deathrite eats it and 2- he needs to go off with past in flames. He prays to the storm gods and I pray to Gamon to make this Ad Naus burn him out(fitting as he's the reason why I'm playing this game and he's on burn.) He hits a land and a bunch of rituals and a dark petition but he has to keep going as he can't make red for past in flames, he needs a lotus petal. After hitting several cabal therapies he finally dies, serves you right for blind therapying my Thoughtseize <3.

    Out
    3 Mother
    1 Scryb
    4 Plow
    1 Elsepeth
    1 Library
    1 Knight
    1 Rallier
    1 Noble

    In

    2 Canonist
    1 Harm's Way
    2 Zealous
    1 Golgari Charm
    2 Hymn
    2 Inquisition
    3 Surical

    Game 2 I rip his hand apart and am holding a golgari charm (holding for regen) with Canonist, Revoker and Deathrite in play. He empties for 2 goblins off 4 lands just to hold back my hatebears as I continue to drain him with deathrite. At one point he has rending volley and 3 others I dont know and I draw hymn to tourach. Now here comes the sleep deprived potato play; I remember drawing Hymn and being like "now okay if I play this I can't golgari charm to protect my canonist from rending volley" then I tap my 2 black lands for hymn and he rending volleys my canonist and I look at my board I'm like "Oh deathrite makes black, I can play charm!" and I tap my shaman to make black just to remember I can't cast it because of my canonist so I leave him with 1 card and I theoretically gave him some past in flames out as I tapped my shaman for no reason but it doesn't come back to bite me and I win the game anyways, yay.

    Then we split the top 4 and I go and sleep.

  17. #8477

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Any of you have extensive testing against Czech pile? I know it's not usually regarded as good but I'm really tempted to side in surgicals against them. A key target would be Kcommand but I'm wondering if it's worth it after they already blew one equipment.

    I'm not sure what to bring in against them. just as much removal as you can muster and hope for the best? Most decks can work their way around choke so I'm hesitant to even put one in my board.

    Edit: I've actually decided to cut canonist atm (between 0 and 1 storm each week, I did not side it in for a few months) so I've got 2 slots to dedicate to control decks. One is locked on library but I'm unsure about the second one (choke, Garruk, etc)
    Last edited by Cpt-Qc; 09-19-2017 at 04:09 AM.

  18. #8478
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    Any of you have extensive testing against Czech pile? I know it's not usually regarded as good but I'm really tempted to side in surgicals against them. A key target would be Kcommand but I'm wondering if it's worth it after they already blew one equipment.

    I'm not sure what to bring in against them. just as much removal as you can muster and hope for the best? Most decks can work their way around choke so I'm hesitant to even put one in my board.

    Edit: I've actually decided to cut canonist atm (between 0 and 1 storm each week, I did not side it in for a few months) so I've got 2 slots to dedicate to control decks. One is locked on library but I'm unsure about the second one (choke, Garruk, etc)
    I have only played a little bit of Maverick lately, so read my comment with that in mind.

    I believe Choke has gotten a lot better since a) Grixis Decks including Czech Pile became one of the top decks to beat, they (Czech Pile at least) are mana hungry and usually don't have a single answer to a resolved Choke [Edit: checked a few lists, they actually had 1-2 answers, guess I'm leaning on old or local information]. Also another more or less popular blue-based control deck vs which you may want Choke is Miracles. Choke used to be pretty disappointing vs them but that probably changed, because a) they started cutting Wear/Tear from the board which enabled blowouts vs equipment+choke (I'm not sure if they are back in), and b) running a blue-based cantrip-shell instead of the previous SDT means they have to tap an island whenever they want to look at fresh cards, no more plains-enabled topping. I upped to 2 Chokes a few months ago, I like it. I think Choke is also pretty good (in Maverick) vs Food Chain and Alluren, not sure how prevalent they are in the current meta but when grind is the flavor of the meta I would think that grind-combo has an advantage.
    Last edited by pettdan; 09-21-2017 at 05:32 AM.

  19. #8479
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    Edit: I've actually decided to cut canonist atm (between 0 and 1 storm each week, I did not side it in for a few months) so I've got 2 slots to dedicate to control decks. One is locked on library but I'm unsure about the second one (choke, Garruk, etc)
    I dislike any sideboard without at least one Canonist. It has applications beyond just Storm. It's a key card vs Elves, Sneak and Show, Aluren, Food Chain among others.

  20. #8480

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Cpt-Qc View Post
    Any of you have extensive testing against Czech pile? I know it's not usually regarded as good but I'm really tempted to side in surgicals against them. A key target would be Kcommand but I'm wondering if it's worth it after they already blew one equipment.

    I'm not sure what to bring in against them. just as much removal as you can muster and hope for the best? Most decks can work their way around choke so I'm hesitant to even put one in my board.

    Edit: I've actually decided to cut canonist atm (between 0 and 1 storm each week, I did not side it in for a few months) so I've got 2 slots to dedicate to control decks. One is locked on library but I'm unsure about the second one (choke, Garruk, etc)
    The question for me isn't if I will run Choke, but how many. I never leave home without at least one copy.

    What's the rest of your sideboard look like?
    Mom-mom had to die because of the ground chemicals. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10272003

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