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Thread: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

  1. #8481
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    I'm kinda mulling over the same question, as there's a decent amount of blue midrange locally. My sideboard is currently:

    1 Scooze
    1 Rec Sage
    1 Crucible Man
    1 Choke
    2 Canonist
    1 Diabolic Edict
    2 Duress
    3 Surgical
    1 Teeg
    2 Zealous Persecution

    The problem I'm facing is that I want to bring in a lot of this shit (Scooze, Choke, Edict, ZP, and to a lesser extent Ramunap). However, I don't feel like the Maverick maindeck has that many cards I want to cut against Czech, Grixis, or Stoneblade. Sooo basically I have no useful input on this, but would love to hear how other Maverick pilots are navigating the blue midrange situation.

  2. #8482
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Looking for similar solution against Czech Pile, I found it's not favorable actually. Until last week I had heavy mana daniel plan including GQ. But last tournament I faced Czech Pile with more then standard list basics and lost. They run a lot of removal (Bolts, Decay's, Pushes, Deluge and K.Command) with 4 Snapcasters it's really hard to stick any threads on table.
    Equips vs them are rather poor since K.Command blow them with value - not recommended.

    I analyze their standard build and found:

    - a chance with mana daniel plan, since most of their removal required many colors, but at the end their build can be optimized against us (more basics for example, and more pushes and deluges).
    - a change to Gravehate them: Shamans, Angler, K.Command and 4 Snapcasters require graveyard to work well, Ooze isn't best solution since they have a lot of answers against it, best would be probably Leyline of the Void
    - they can't destroy enchantments with CMC > 3. So any enchantment which will give hugh value will do the job - still looking good one
    - they can't destroy lands, so option with TS/DD can also do the job, other option is to gain value with for example Yavimaya Hollow looks promising - require a test
    - they don't exile our creatures so graveyard is full of them in mid-late game.

    Cards to test against, all of them are with CMC > 3 and are against UB/x slow control decks with tons of removal, which doesn't exile:
    Martyr's Bond one of my favorite card from EDH, 6 mana could be too much but effect is constant and very powerful, you can blow their lands with fetchlands, and destroy easily their creatures

    Nether Void this card was mention since it also works against many other decks, with snapcaster with it is off, it also require cavern of Souls to be not locked out by self.

    Snake Pit this card is cheapest in mana, and have the smallest impact, but it's still very good one - reverse young pyromancer, which trigger on each of their spells ? Yes, please.

    Verdant Succession my favorite found since last research - this basically is game over each creature which are multiple will back on action - their shamans won't since we use plows.

    Gutter Grime an other slow over value it easily creature bigger and bigger threads. It trigger very time any creature card goes to your GY.

    Living Death Last interesting approach - flip the table and kill all his threads and bring back all yours :-).

  3. #8483

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    I rarely if ever lose to either Czeck Pile or Esper/Bant Stoneblade decks. Jeskai Stoneblade has been the only one giving me troubles and only if they use the old lists from the Treasure Cruise era. Everything they have is just straight up worse than what we have...

    I also run Dark Depths so often I just need to untap with KotR twice and they die on end step. Forces them to have to save up their removal but they can't since everything else the deck resolves is also scary. For the most part, they just run out of cards against me.

  4. #8484
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    For what it's worth, I think Punishing Fire is where Maverick may want to be right now. I played a pair of Czech Piles at EE7 and never lost a round (2-0 and 2-1). The exact list, including the board, is here: https://deckbox.org/sets/1802850 and my boarding strategy was as follows:
    Out: -2 Noble Hierarch, -2 Stoneforge Mystic, -1 Sword of Fire and Ice, -1 Umezawa's Jitte, -1 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Qasali Pridemage
    In: +2 Pyroblast, +2 Red Elemental Blast, +1 Sylvan Library, +1 Ramunap Exacator, +1 Elspeth, Knight Errant, +1 Fiery Justice

    Adding Punishing Fire is huge game against Czech Pile because you are dramatically more mana-efficient with an effect every turn, plus the added percentage points against Hymn to Tourach. Additionally, it invalidates nearly all of their creatures save Leovold, Gurmag Angler, and True-Name Nemesis, of which Swords to Plowshares hammers through two of the three anyway. Punishing Fire also pressures their planeswalkers and hurts Liliana of the Veil.

    While the game is going to be grindy, you will probably be out-ground if you take the back seat. Deathrite Shaman is public enemy number one in these matchups since it hurts both Knight of the Reliquary and Ramunap Excavator, of which the former is formidable enough to just attack right into Gurmags and True-Names all day. In fact, Knight often gets so large, that a resolved True-Name Nemesis is just not a problem since it can never attack for fear of death by 10/10 Magus of the Crop Rotation. A second Knight or a few other attackers is all it takes for lights out. My reasoning with siding out Noble Hierarch is that I won't be playing around soft permission like Daze so I want my average card quality to be higher. While I have never tested the matchup against Sneak and Show and am unsure if I can cut the 4th blast effect for something more relevant, I know that I really want either Arlinn Kord or Chandra, Pyromaster for this matchup in particular. Even so, it's felt roughly even.

  5. #8485
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by mgrinshpon View Post
    For what it's worth, I think Punishing Fire is where Maverick may want to be right now. I played a pair of Czech Piles at EE7 and never lost a round (2-0 and 2-1). The exact list, including the board, is here: https://deckbox.org/sets/1802850 and my boarding strategy was as follows:
    Out: -2 Noble Hierarch, -2 Stoneforge Mystic, -1 Sword of Fire and Ice, -1 Umezawa's Jitte, -1 Swords to Plowshares, -1 Qasali Pridemage
    In: +2 Pyroblast, +2 Red Elemental Blast, +1 Sylvan Library, +1 Ramunap Exacator, +1 Elspeth, Knight Errant, +1 Fiery Justice

    Adding Punishing Fire is huge game against Czech Pile because you are dramatically more mana-efficient with an effect every turn, plus the added percentage points against Hymn to Tourach. Additionally, it invalidates nearly all of their creatures save Leovold, Gurmag Angler, and True-Name Nemesis, of which Swords to Plowshares hammers through two of the three anyway. Punishing Fire also pressures their planeswalkers and hurts Liliana of the Veil.

    While the game is going to be grindy, you will probably be out-ground if you take the back seat. Deathrite Shaman is public enemy number one in these matchups since it hurts both Knight of the Reliquary and Ramunap Excavator, of which the former is formidable enough to just attack right into Gurmags and True-Names all day. In fact, Knight often gets so large, that a resolved True-Name Nemesis is just not a problem since it can never attack for fear of death by 10/10 Magus of the Crop Rotation. A second Knight or a few other attackers is all it takes for lights out. My reasoning with siding out Noble Hierarch is that I won't be playing around soft permission like Daze so I want my average card quality to be higher. While I have never tested the matchup against Sneak and Show and am unsure if I can cut the 4th blast effect for something more relevant, I know that I really want either Arlinn Kord or Chandra, Pyromaster for this matchup in particular. Even so, it's felt roughly even.
    Agreed that Punishing Maverick is better against anything with discard, works well also vs walkers and Strix, same is true as Snaps aggro :-).

    There is also drawback:
    - Worst manabase - less food for Knight, more waste-able, less fetchlands
    - Less room in SB/MD (4 slots taken by Pif)
    - Disynergy with Thalia,
    - less black so no room for good answers vs other not great MU like Elves and TNN,
    - more graveyard dependent so rest in peace can be a hoser.
    It's good vs midrange UB/x decks like Czech Pile, but much worst vs for example UW stoneblade with 4 TNN. I also doesn't agree about completely absent of Deathrite Shaman, many times removing opponent graveyard card by card gives important advantage.

    I'm missing a lot of cards on sb - like Ethersworn Canonist, I played with Fire against Elves and it's just too slow, specially after Glimpse Blow.

    I like pyro effects, which are very good against Jace, Snaps, Delver, and S&T.

    Interesting how works for you 3 Sanctum Pralate in SB on which matchups you side them in, and what you name, more over how you deal with D&T after SB. Looks like Rest in peace can be very hard to deal.
    I doesn't agree to side out Thalia against Grixis Delver - it's very good card against them I would rather cut some BoPs before, since it slow down Pyromancer a lot, and just can lock them - try them.

    Question does 3 Surgical are really so important here - I think it's overextend. Vs B/R Reanimator strict I would rather get some Fearie Macabre since they can't be discarded.

  6. #8486

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyod17 View Post
    I dislike any sideboard without at least one Canonist. It has applications beyond just Storm. It's a key card vs Elves, Sneak and Show, Aluren, Food Chain among others.
    No elves in my meta either and in other Matchups Prelate works just as well.
    Last edited by Cpt-Qc; 09-20-2017 at 01:59 AM.

  7. #8487
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    There is also drawback:
    - Worst manabase - less food for Knight, more waste-able, less fetchlands
    - Less room in SB/MD (4 slots taken by Pif)
    - Disynergy with Thalia,
    - less black so no room for good answers vs other not great MU like Elves and TNN,
    - more graveyard dependent so rest in peace can be a hoser.
    It's good vs midrange UB/x decks like Czech Pile, but much worst vs for example UW stoneblade with 4 TNN. I also doesn't agree about completely absent of Deathrite Shaman, many times removing opponent graveyard card by card gives important advantage.
    For reference, Fatal is referencing some boarding notes that I had on my list in the deck notes. Link is here: https://deckbox.org/sets/1802850. Board notes are:
    • D&T: -1 Gaddock Teeg, -3 Thalia, +1 Elspeth, +1 Fiery Justice, +1 Ramunap Excavator, +1 Sylvan Library
    • Grixis Delver: +4 REBs, +1 Fiery Justice, -1 Qasali, -1 Teeg, -3 Thalia
    • Czech: +4 REBs, +1 Sylvan, +1 Elspeth, +1 Ramunap, +1 FJ, -2 SFM, -1 SoFaI, -1 Jitte, -1 Qasali, -1 StP, -2 Noble Hierarch


    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    I'm missing a lot of cards on sb - like Ethersworn Canonist, I played with Fire against Elves and it's just too slow, specially after Glimpse Blow.
    The original list had Blazing Volley but I felt as though it was too narrow and I ended up cutting it. Elves is definitely not a good matchup with this configuration but I wasn't expecting a lot of it at EE7. In an open meta, I'd probably cut a Pyroblast for something more useful and a Sanctum Prelate for an Ethersworn Canonist maybe but that hurts the Lands matchup significantly since Prelate on 2 means their only out is a Crop Rotation for Barbarian Ring, a resource already stretched with Knight of the Reliquary (they can PFire KotR and rotate for a Bojuka Bog to kill it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    I like pyro effects, which are very good against Jace, Snaps, Delver, and S&T.
    I actually want to cut one. I'm leaning towards Qasali Pridemage, Chandra, Pyromaster, or a second Fiery Justice, in that order. EDIT: Also, Dusk // Dawn looks promising.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    Interesting how works for you 3 Sanctum Pralate in SB on which matchups you side them in, and what you name, more over how you deal with D&T after SB. Looks like Rest in peace can be very hard to deal.
    Sneak and Show (3, 2), Storm (0, 2; due to Combust and Infernal Tutor), Lands (2, 2 again, 1 if I somehow get that lucky), Cloudpost (3, 2), Burn (2), Dragon Stompy (3+a Gaddock Teeg is a hard lock), Reanimator (2, then 1 if possible), and other random spell-heavy matchups that are not Czech Pile. The card is quite good in some of Maverick's worst matchups.

    Rest in Peace can be beating, but it appears to have become less popular of late. Save your Pridemages, I guess!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    I doesn't agree to side out Thalia against Grixis Delver - it's very good card against them I would rather cut some BoPs before, since it slow down Pyromancer a lot, and just can lock them - try them.
    I don't know if what I'm doing is "right" exactly, but my approach to Delver is to become the big mana control deck. My creatures are bigger and better than theirs could ever hope to be and I have more of them than they have removal in general, so if I can just stick my removal and keep my mana sources alive, I'll win. As such, post-board, I become much more spell-heavy with this configuration which is an anti-pattern with Thalia. If they have a mana open, which they will if they're ahead on board, Thalia turns their Dazes into Spell Pierces. If they're behind on board, I'm winning anyway, so Thalia doesn't matter that much. If I can just stick my removal and follow that removal up with any creature with nonzero power and toughness, I'll be set. Also, most Grixis Delver lists are cutting down on Fatal Pushes and going up on Lightning Bolt, so Scavenging Ooze is fantastic again and generally a late game bomb.

    I can't imagine cutting Birds of Paradise or Noble Hierarch to ever be a good call- it's mana in a matchup where your early game is defined by how constrained you are on mana.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    Question does 3 Surgical are really so important here - I think it's overextend. Vs B/R Reanimator strict I would rather get some Fearie Macabre since they can't be discarded.
    I cut Containment Priest since I hated the card so I wanted to have something for graveyard hate that isn't dissynergistic, so no Grafdigger's Cage, no Containment Priest, etc. Options are Surgical, Relic of Progenitus (hurts my own Knight of the Reliquaries), Leyline of the Void (nearly uncastable and I have no looting effects to get rid of it), Ground Seal (bad against Lands and Reanimator still can Exhume, but excellent against Deathrite Shaman decks), and Faerie Macabre (nearly uncastable). Reanimator is a really bad matchup- no way to skate around everything.

  8. #8488

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    So I ended up crushing 3 blade decks tonight (Bant, UW Stoneblade, DnT) ending at 3-0-1 . The third game would also have been a win if it weren't for time constraint.

    I'm pretty sure dropping canonist was the right call as it allows me to side in 8 cards in most fair matchups. According I have some acceleration, Prelate does the job better against most decks except elves (which I haven't seen in at least 4 months). On many occasions Blessed alliance was king tonight. I mostly used sac a creature mode but also gain life one (my moms never really survived to activation so the third mode stayed dormant).

    Quote Originally Posted by menloe View Post
    The question for me isn't if I will run Choke, but how many. I never leave home without at least one copy.

    What's the rest of your sideboard look like?
    The sideboard I used tonight was as follow:

    2x Sanctum Prelate
    1x Choke
    1x Sylvan Library
    2x Abrupt Decay
    2x Blessed Alliance
    2x Surgical Extraction
    2x Zealous Persecution
    3x Thoughtseize

  9. #8489

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    I played the Punishing Maverick List from Reddit (with 2 Changes to the 75) at MKM Series Hamburg (299 Players).
    I didn't take notes on sideboarding, so here is just a small summary.

    List:

    Lands (22)
    1 Forest
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Horizon Canopy
    1 Karakas
    1 Plains
    1 Plateau
    2 Savannah
    2 Taiga
    4 Wasteland
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Wooded Foothills

    Spells (14)
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Punishing Fire
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Creatures (24)
    4 Birds of Paradise
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    4 Mother of Runes
    2 Noble Hierarch
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Scryb Ranger
    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1 Fiery Justice
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow
    1 Sylvan Library


    Round 1 vs Elves
    2-1
    Lost Game 1 to Craterhoof, won games 2 and 3 on the back of Punishing Fire, Teeg and Sanctum Prelates.

    Round 2 vs RB Reanimator
    2-1
    Lost Game 1 vs Griselbrad, won games 2 and 3

    Round 3 vs Cloudpost Eldrazi
    2-0
    Wastelands are good, also knight laughs at TKS

    Round 4 vs FoodChain
    0-2
    Didn't see Foodchain in game 1 only Leo and DRS so i boarded out Qasali, then lost game 2 to the combo.

    Round 5 vs TinFins
    2-1
    Lost game 1: He reanimates Griselbrand turn 1 or 2 and Tendrils me a turn later.
    Game 2 he shows 2 Chancellors on his starting 7, i play turn 1 birds into the trigger. His turn one is Dark Ritual, Thoughtseize himself, discard Chancellor, Animate Dead. I have play turn 2 Thalia, turn 3 Mom and turn 4 Scryb Ranger. After that he never does anything anymore.
    Game 3 he mulls to 6 an kept a greedy 1-lander. I mull to 5 and Thalia locks him out before he finds a 2nd land.

    Round 6 vs Omnitell (this player won the swiss and eventually the Top8 as well.)
    0-2
    I play 3 lands and 3 creatures in both games combined.

    Round 7 vs 12Post
    2-0
    I win both games with turn 1 manadork, turn 2 Thalia + Wasteland

    Round 8 vs Czeck Pile
    0-2
    I lose 2 very grindy and close games. At one point in game 2 i play Elspeth, after that I have no white sources open and 2 STP in hand, he has a Jace in play. On his turn he plays Snapcaster, flashback a Bolt, bouce the Snapcaster with Jace, replay Snap and flashback Forked Bolt to kill Elspeth. :(

    Round 9 vs UR Delver
    2-1
    Game 1 he wins with TNN.
    Game 2 i win with SoFaI on Birds.
    Game 3 I win by chaining all 3 equipments.


    After 9 rounds 6-3 in matches for place 46 out of 299.

    MVPs were the sanctum prelates. I think I will get a 3rd one and drop the Library for it.

    After playing the black version for a long time I'm happy with the result and expect for the Omnitell Games never felt at a huge disadvantage vs the combo decks.

    ________________________________________________________________________________________________

  10. #8490

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    I've been playing Punishing Dark Maverick for several years. I play Deathrite Shaman with Pun, and only splash one Bayou. I feel like Planeswalkers are very powerful against the control decks, and equipment are risky, so I am only running 2 Jitte main, and no Stoneforge Mystic. Below I will list some cards I like, and some cards I am not sure about. I think Maverick has potential in this meta, and together, we can help optimize the deck.

    Good cards in the current meta game:

    Deathrite shaman: I think this card is worth playing in any build of Maverick, even with a very light splash. If you play Punishing Fire, I think this card is still worth playing, even though the mana base looks greedy. This card give the deck so much more range, and in a meta infested with Deathrite Shaman, it acts like removal for opposing Deathrite Shamans.

    Punishing Fire: This card really makes the deck go into the late game with a lot of success. Most control decks are forced to run creatures, and this card kills creatures and Planeswalkers. This card makes can tax our mana base, and so far its been the only issue running both Deathrite and Punishing Fire. I am considering upping my mana dork count from 6 to 7 mana dorks (4 Deathrite shaman, 1 Birds of paradise, and 1 Noble Hierarchy) as mana has been the primary reason for my losses. I am also considering running a second Sylvan Library to help my mana and keep me from having bad draws.

    Dark Depths/ Thespian stage: I have really enjoyed this combo. It has allowed me to win a lot of games I wouldn't win normally. Against decks that run Price of Progress, its easy to board out, and this card allows me to go over the top when Knight of the Reliquary untaps. I wouldn't leave home without this card, as I feel like it makes Knight of the Reliquary deadly under any situation.

    PlanesWalkers: I have had a lot of success with walkers in my deck. The three walkers I would recommend would be Garruk Relentless, Ajani Vengeant, and Elspeth, Knight Errant (if getting white mana is not an issue for your). I would like to try some other planes walkers but I haven'd had the time to test them all. I would like to test Chandra, Torch of Defiance, and Gideon Jura but I do not own them, and I am worried about the double red and the double white mana to cast the walkers. Currently I play Garruk Relentless and Ajani Vengeant, and I have considered a third walker if Pile and Miracles grow in numbers.

    Sylvan Library: I normally do not play this card. Right now I think its a good choice. I have been having white mana issues in my deck, and this card has helped out. I have considered running an extra land, but right now I am considering running a second library main to help out with the constancy issues I have been facing recently.

    Sanctum Prelate: I highly recommend this card. This card is flexible, has legs, and can be played turn 2 with a mana dork. The issue is that its double white to cast, and that can be rough. I think this card is very powerful right now, and people should play it at 2 or more in the sideboard.

    Cards I am unsure about:
    Ramunap Excavator: This card has been good in theory, but I have often perfered a Life From the Loam in the place of this card. I have not had many if any situations where I would Green Sun's Zenith for this card over a Knight of the Reliquary, and having a 3 mana card that only can produce mana if you play it turn 3 with a mana dork, or turn 4 without a mana dork doesn't feel great. I am not certain this card is worth playing.

    Sylvan Safekeeper: I really enjoyed this card in theory, but I feel like its too bad of an early game card to play. Mother of Runes seems better in most every case (besides trying to force a Marit Lage, or being active the turn you play it), and I feel like its a cool target for Green Sun's Zenith, but probably not worth it.

    Maze of Ith: I always run Thespian Stage/ Dark Depths, so maybe my opinion is skewed, but I haven't enjoyed playing this card. I feel like its a bad top deck, and its rare that I would want to search for this card instead of another card with Knight of the Reliquary. Its seems good in a meta game with Delver and Eldrazi, but True-Named Nemesis may invalidate this card. That True-Named Nemesis is some bull poop if you ask me.

    Stoneforge Mystic: This card is an great card. No doubt about it. I will not fault anyone for running this card. The issue is that main deck removal for artifacts is abundant, and its a touch slow to beat the delver decks. Running Batterskull in a deck with Stoneforge Mystic always seems correct, and running 2-3 Mystic doesn't feel great. Running 4 mystic seems like too many, and make me want to run 3-4 equipment, making artifact removal even more problematic. I prefer Planeswalker at the moment to Stoneforge mystic as they are less vulnerable and against delver decks, these cards can be side boarded out because they are too expensive. I have tested Sword of Light and Shadow, and the card seems solid if you choose to run Stoneforge Mystic package in high numbers, but I would find another card for the deck. I also like Manriki Gusari in the sideboard if you run 3-4 Stoneforge Mystic.

    Life from the Loam: I run Deathrite shaman, and Deathrite Shaman is very common to play against. This card used to be a staple in Punishing Maverick, however, running Deathrite shaman and playing against Deathrite Shaman has made this card less useful. I think its a great card in magic, but not for my deck in the current meta, and the way my deck has been outfitted.

    Crop Rotation in the side board: I have really enjoyed this tech coming out of the board. It is really powerful when you run a Bojuka Bog, DD/Stage, Karakas, Maze, etc. but I'm not sure its better than other cards we would be playing instead. I like it because its flexible, but I'm not sure if its powerful enough for us to play without running weird cards like Tabernacle, Glacial Chasm, etc.

    Choke: This card was a powerhouse in the Miracle meta. I took it out, and now I've added it back in with the surge in control decks. The biggest issues with this card is that I do not like it against Delver decks. Being three mana makes it so that you can be losing on the board when you play it, and fall too far behind, and Deathrite Shaman could give them the mana they need to end the game. Its great when its in play, but will it be too late by the time you cast it. Daze gives them the ability to counter it as its expensive, and perhaps even reuse mana to play again after they tapped their island.

    Pyroblast: I play red in my deck, so this card is always an option. I don't feel great about playing reactive narrow cards that make me keep mana up over playing threats. I am not playing it currently, but I may reconsider playing it. I do not like that it doesn't kill True-Named Nemesis unless you counter it, and that card seems to be the card I have issues with the most against delver.

    Leovold, Emissary of Trest: This card is great and I think it can be an easy splash for Maverick that doesn't run Punishing Fire. I have considered it in my deck, however, it probably isn't worth it in my build with all of the mana problems. My concern with the card is that when would player choose to get this card over Gaddock Teeg or Knight of the Reliquary when casting a Green Sun's Zenith. Against Combo, Teeg stops them out right, and against fair decks, Knight is almost always the best choice.

    Tireless Tracker:My concern with this card is the same as Levold and Ramunap. When would you choose this card over Knight with Green Sun's Zenith? Perhaps its good enough to play on its on, as it has a lot of great end game potential, but I'm not sure its better than just running a planeswalker in its place.

    Scryb Ranger: I have never played this card in Punishing Maverick. I cannot comment on it. My gut says its not good enough, but I have no way to justify that. I think I would sooner run another copy of Ooze or Pridemage than play one of these.

    Thanks for reading. Feedback is appreciated. I welcome discussion on the topic. Maverick has had some success recently, and not a lot of talk has come after the fact.
    Last edited by Strassbaw; 10-10-2017 at 03:07 PM.

  11. #8491
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    just a question to those who wanted to make the thread new/fresh.
    do you still need some help in writing or are you finished soon?

    havent played much in the last 2 months, but im splashing leovold in my gw/b list recently and if find nothing bad about it (switched a forrest for a tropical)

    are there any good blue cards that would be worth a sideboard slot? im probably not doing this (because of the bad manabase) just thought about it

  12. #8492

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Skizz View Post
    just a question to those who wanted to make the thread new/fresh.
    do you still need some help in writing or are you finished soon?

    havent played much in the last 2 months, but im splashing leovold in my gw/b list recently and if find nothing bad about it (switched a forrest for a tropical)

    are there any good blue cards that would be worth a sideboard slot? im probably not doing this (because of the bad manabase) just thought about it
    I was thinking of playing Leovold but I wouldn't play a tropical - Though I've tested it years ago (before DRS, when we were just GW) with Spell Pierces in the board and it was ok, but I don't think we need anything like that atm.

    @ The post with all the cards.

    The cards I'm unsure of are Stoneforge Mystic and Stage/Depths (I am playing them both atm but have done well with lists without either). When I play Depths I play it over a spell and I play the stage over my extra land slot (I don't like playing Cradle). Stage isn't just a dead card when you don't draw depths though, it's really strong against lands (copy their maze, karakas, depths, etc.) and even copying something like a dryad arbor can get there, it's a very contextual card.

    SFM can be clunky and slow like "turn 2 play my guy, turn 3 cheat in my equip, turn 4 equ- oh you stopped me because you saw it coming for 2 turns..." and your equips line up poorly against K. Command//Leovold (which is the major control deck of the format and we want our SFM for the control matchup.... awk?). I am back on the SFM package though because I like how you have the "everyone's a hero" gameplan where they wipe you or kill all you dudes or whatever but every single creature you play is a huge threat - If I were to play a planeswalker in my list over SFM package it'd be Elsepth because she accomplishes that same goal and she lines up really well against TNN//Leo//W.e durdle and she's really resilient always going up but the issue for me with maining a PWer is that I don't want to rely on drawing this 1of that I can't tutor or look for at all (though she's in my SB atm and I'm sure I'll MD her again).

    Sylvan library is good, when I cut stoneforge I usually like to put in 2 copies of library because I have the added room for my list.

    I don't play red but if you're playing mother of runes then I'd play Scryb Ranger (I like to call Ranger + Mom the "fair lock"), it's also our only flyer which is important.

    I'm really high on thoughtseize and have 4 in the main I play them over my flex slots (so like over tracker, excavator, the librarys back in - stuff like that). I feel like it makes up for our lack of blue (IE Force of Will) and just gives us a much better fighting chance against our opponents gameplan. *of course I wouldn't play them if I was on red =p*

    Also @ the tournament report, rd5 vs tinfins you played Thalia on turn 2 against Chancellor. Did he just miss the trigger?

  13. #8493

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Really interesting to hear everyone discussing punishing maverick as the current direction of travel. I have moved away from punishing to junk maverick to maximise deathrite, have better answers to true name nemesis and access to thoughtseize which is a card I have been extremely impressed by.

    I continue to play a main deck renegade rallier for the double wasteland turns it enables (or to rebuy teeg and thalia in combo matches)

    re- splash leovold.
    This feels very greedy to me. When are people searching for him?



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  14. #8494

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by shallowend View Post
    Really interesting to hear everyone discussing punishing maverick as the current direction of travel. I have moved away from punishing to junk maverick to maximise deathrite, have better answers to true name nemesis and access to thoughtseize which is a card I have been extremely impressed by.

    I continue to play a main deck renegade rallier for the double wasteland turns it enables (or to rebuy teeg and thalia in combo matches)

    re- splash leovold.
    This feels very greedy to me. When are people searching for him?



    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
    Rallier has been really good to me, you always get those moments where you're like "man I wish I had 1 more copy of ooze/cat/ranger in my deck" and Rallier can get yours back. Or you do something like play a turn 2 thalia/library, they kill it just for you to rally it back - really versatile card.

    Thoughtseize is love <3 I can't see myself leaving black, seeing dnt players consider cards like Holy Light over Zealous because they can't make black makes me shudder.

  15. #8495

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Given that Czech Pile is the "hot" deck of the moment, and how poorly the SfM package lines up against that deck (on top of how poor it is vs combo), has anyone considered giving Thalia, Heretic Cathar a spin in some of those slots? We have dorks to power her out on turn 2, at which point their mana development grinds to a halt, and the 3/2 first strike body allows her to rumble through all their creatures save Gurmag Angler. Although not necessarily game breaking in all match-ups, her ability to slow down the mana development from other 3+ color decks and to buy time vs. Sneak & Show/Elves seems to be really well positioned right now. Thoughts?

  16. #8496

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by TheStalk View Post
    Given that Czech Pile is the "hot" deck of the moment, and how poorly the SfM package lines up against that deck (on top of how poor it is vs combo), has anyone considered giving Thalia, Heretic Cathar a spin in some of those slots? We have dorks to power her out on turn 2, at which point their mana development grinds to a halt, and the 3/2 first strike body allows her to rumble through all their creatures save Gurmag Angler. Although not necessarily game breaking in all match-ups, her ability to slow down the mana development from other 3+ color decks and to buy time vs. Sneak & Show/Elves seems to be really well positioned right now. Thoughts?
    I considered it when building for a recent event, but i think the one of answers need to be green for gsz. This is where we get our edge by consistently being able to find the answer or threat we need.

    That said sfm is losing stock ever time I play (but jitte is too good to leave behind). A diversity of threats could be the answer.



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  17. #8497

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by shallowend View Post
    I considered it when building for a recent event, but i think the one of answers need to be green for gsz. This is where we get our edge by consistently being able to find the answer or threat we need.

    That said sfm is losing stock ever time I play (but jitte is too good to leave behind). A diversity of threats could be the answer.



    Sent from my F3111 using Tapatalk
    Your point is fair, but I don't think you'd want to include THC as only a one-of. Assuming we're cutting the SFM package completely (which may sound like heresy, but I honestly think it would be for the best in the current meta), that's 6 free slots. I'm thinking at least 2 big Thalias, possibly 3. Having slammed her on turn 1-2 on many occasions playing Thalia Stompy, I can guarantee that she's no joke when accelerated out, and between 4-6 dorks + GSZ for Dryad Arbor, we have pretty good odds of playing her t2 if she's in our opener.

  18. #8498
    What's taters, precious? What's taters, eh?
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Strassbaw View Post
    Dark Depths/ Thespian stage: I have really enjoyed this combo. It has allowed me to win a lot of games I wouldn't win normally. Against decks that run Price of Progress, its easy to board out, and this card allows me to go over the top when Knight of the Reliquary untaps. I wouldn't leave home without this card, as I feel like it makes Knight of the Reliquary deadly under any situation.
    I agree totally. I have never regretted having the combo in my deck; I have regretted not having the combo in my deck. There are many problematic board states that are very cleanly resolved by tutoring for a Marit Lage with KotR. It also makes KotR a powerful threat even when it's a 2/2 because you have no lands in the graveyard and gives the deck something unfair to do.

    This is why I like Punishing Maverick. The deck has multiple axes that are enabled by KotR. You can grab a Grove of the Burnwillows to bring your Punishing Fire combo online, you can grab the DD+Stage combo to end the game, and you can just beat face like with huge knights like the other variants. (FWIW, I tend to associate DD+Stage with Punishing Maverick since most of the lists I've seen run it over Gaea's Cradle while most GWb lists run Cradle over the combo.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Strassbaw
    Ramunap Excavator: This card has been good in theory, but I have often perfered a Life From the Loam in the place of this card. I have not had many if any situations where I would Green Sun's Zenith for this card over a Knight of the Reliquary, and having a 3 mana card that only can produce mana if you play it turn 3 with a mana dork, or turn 4 without a mana dork doesn't feel great. I am not certain this card is worth playing.
    Maybe it's because I'm only running one or two and I never feel like I'd win a game GSZing for Ramunap, but the snake just hasn't come down in enough games for me to feel comfortable making an assessment.

    I will say it's more of a workhorse, as you say, than a superstar in that usually it just helps you boost on mana after turn 3ish. This can help you make a couple extra plays a game, so it seems to be more in the incremental advantage generator category. The most spectacular thing it did for me was rebuy a DD after sticking it to bait a Wasteland, which led to a win in a mirror match on MODO, so I feel like it has a spot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strassbaw
    That True-Named Nemesis is some bull poop if you ask me.
    I know I just finished extolling the virtues of Marit Lage, but fuck some TNN.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strassbaw
    Crop Rotation in the side board: I have really enjoyed this tech coming out of the board. It is really powerful when you run a Bojuka Bog, DD/Stage, Karakas, Maze, etc. but I'm not sure its better than other cards we would be playing instead. I like it because its flexible, but I'm not sure if its powerful enough for us to play without running weird cards like Tabernacle, Glacial Chasm, etc.
    Seems reasonable to go all in on Marit Lage if you're going down that path and have slots for it. Merritt Elmasri did well last year with three Rotations in the board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strassbaw
    Tireless Tracker:My concern with this card is the same as Levold and Ramunap. When would you choose this card over Knight with Green Sun's Zenith? Perhaps its good enough to play on its on, as it has a lot of great end game potential, but I'm not sure its better than just running a planeswalker in its place.
    It's good in GWb Maverick with Gaea's Cradle. I think there's less room for it in Pun Mav since most Pun Mav builds I have seen want DD+Combo. In general I like that it's a tutorable source of card advantage and a threat that doesn't rely on the graveyard to be functional.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strassbaw
    Scryb Ranger: I have never played this card in Punishing Maverick. I cannot comment on it. My gut says its not good enough, but I have no way to justify that. I think I would sooner run another copy of Ooze or Pridemage than play one of these.
    Scryb Ranger is insanely good in a deck that cares about tapping creatures for their effects. Tapping KotR once to fetch is cool, tapping her twice for two lands is super cool. Same with tapping Mama twice. It's a pseudo dork and you can play it both proactively and reactively for the lulz tricks. She also looks great with a sword or other equipmonk when the ground is clogged with much bigger and better creatures.

    Do you run either of the Thalias? If so, main or side? Switching back to Pun Mav after months playing GWb, I think would miss my girlfriend OG Thalia too much. It feels so good to #YOLO out a Thalia on the play against a turn one Underground Seas+Ponder or other such fuckery. New Thalia is fine in either version and I can't go without at least one in the main deck.

    Also, is your board always so zany or were you just shy playing against Reid Duke on camera?
    Mom-mom had to die because of the ground chemicals. http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10272003

  19. #8499
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    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    @Thalia HC
    By Default, she's sideboard material for me unless the room is filled with greedy manabases. I love it when she kicks them in the nuts. Fetchland (tapped) -> dual (tapped) is a 2 turn timewalk.

    @SFM
    Mixed feelings. Sometimes the equipment ends the game/provides a victory I shouldn't have. Other times SFM is okay. Finding a consistently solid replacement is near impossible though.

    @Crucible Bro
    I agree with @menloe. He's incremental advantage. He doesn't win the game on his own and some folks still don't seem to understand he's a utility guy, not a finisher.

    @DD/Stage
    Steals games you shouldn't win. Minimal cost to the deck. The number of opening clunkers equals out the number of "oops I drew the combo in the opener" hands. I always miss it when I don't include it in the list.

    @card choices
    Unless you have an experimental build, I'd argue the maindecks are almost all the same. We're a deck that has 50-50 odds against most of the field. The splashes have pros and cons. All builds lose to fast combo and decks that sweep the table. The sideboard is where I either do well at an event or die miserably. Sometimes it's luck (hedging against combo in the SB but never seeing it in the bracket, and vice-versa). But when I have the definitive anti-room sideboard of the day, I'll crush.

    **If there is something to vent about, I've been having a larger problem with the deck feeling it can't keep up with the quality of cards opponents play. These 3 and 4 color monstrosities give me the perception of "they have all the good toys and I don't". If I get wasteland-thalia, I have a decent shot. If the game draws out past 5 turns, I have solid odds of out-grinding people. If Knight can untap, my odds go up considerably. But I have this strong feeling of dread as I sit across from some derivative of DRS->blue filtering->finishers after finishers. Or some progression of cards that immediately pins me on the backfoot, sometimes for the entire game. Decks like eldrazi or elves come out so fucking strong it sometimes feels like I barely play 1 card and it's over. Combo I've lost more often than not to "well they just go off". Not sure if I've been in a rut or if others feel the same. A few individuals are logging wins fighting the fair fight. Sometimes I wonder what I'm doing wrong. Or do I need to change decks.

  20. #8500

    Re: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Warden View Post
    @Thalia HC
    By Default, she's sideboard material for me unless the room is filled with greedy manabases. I love it when she kicks them in the nuts. Fetchland (tapped) -> dual (tapped) is a 2 turn timewalk.

    @SFM
    Mixed feelings. Sometimes the equipment ends the game/provides a victory I shouldn't have. Other times SFM is okay. Finding a consistently solid replacement is near impossible though.

    @Crucible Bro
    I agree with @menloe. He's incremental advantage. He doesn't win the game on his own and some folks still don't seem to understand he's a utility guy, not a finisher.

    @DD/Stage
    Steals games you shouldn't win. Minimal cost to the deck. The number of opening clunkers equals out the number of "oops I drew the combo in the opener" hands. I always miss it when I don't include it in the list.

    @card choices
    Unless you have an experimental build, I'd argue the maindecks are almost all the same. We're a deck that has 50-50 odds against most of the field. The splashes have pros and cons. All builds lose to fast combo and decks that sweep the table. The sideboard is where I either do well at an event or die miserably. Sometimes it's luck (hedging against combo in the SB but never seeing it in the bracket, and vice-versa). But when I have the definitive anti-room sideboard of the day, I'll crush.

    **If there is something to vent about, I've been having a larger problem with the deck feeling it can't keep up with the quality of cards opponents play. These 3 and 4 color monstrosities give me the perception of "they have all the good toys and I don't". If I get wasteland-thalia, I have a decent shot. If the game draws out past 5 turns, I have solid odds of out-grinding people. If Knight can untap, my odds go up considerably. But I have this strong feeling of dread as I sit across from some derivative of DRS->blue filtering->finishers after finishers. Or some progression of cards that immediately pins me on the backfoot, sometimes for the entire game. Decks like eldrazi or elves come out so fucking strong it sometimes feels like I barely play 1 card and it's over. Combo I've lost more often than not to "well they just go off". Not sure if I've been in a rut or if others feel the same. A few individuals are logging wins fighting the fair fight. Sometimes I wonder what I'm doing wrong. Or do I need to change decks.
    Re: pile
    I feel like we are playing a similar strategy to pile but have the consistency. Tnn is by far their best card but I feel they often expend a lot of resources getting it into play and a well timed golgari charm can gain you a massive advantage.

    We can definitely lose and they have a lot of powerful cards but this is a matched that exovcator can win. I play one in the sideboard and my game plan is make them spend resources on mum/deathrite/Knight and then get them with a double wasteland rallier or the exovcator from a gsz and control the game.

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