[Deck] GW/x Maverick

[jayman1515]

I brought maverick to a legacy tournament this past FNM. I went 3-1 and made top 4.
The list was:

4 wasteland
3 savannah
2 forest
2 plains
4 windswept heath
2 verdant catacombs
1 maze of ith
1 karakas
2 horizon canopy
1 dryad arbor
3 aven mindcensor
3 stoneforge mystic
3 noble hierarch
1 birds of paradise
2 mirran crusader
4 knight of the reliquary
2 qasali pridemage
3 mother of runes
1 gaddock teeg
1 thrun, the last troll
1 scryb ranger
1 scavenging ooze
4 swords to plowshares
4 green sun’s zenith
2 sylvan library
1 umezawa’s jitte
1 sword of fire and ice
1 sword of light and shadow
SB
1 gaddock teeg
2 path to exile
2 enlightened tutor
1 choke
1 ethersworn canonist
1 dueling grounds
1 runed halo
1 tormod’s crypt
1 wheel of sun and moon
1 phyrexian metamorph
1 pithing needle
1 thorn of amethyst
1 aura of silence

Round 1 Andrew Cavanaugh with NO BUG 2-1
Game 1: Vendillion clique beats me down to 7 as I can’t find either GSZ or mindcensor. He has double goyf on the ground for blocking. A natural order for progenitus forces me to scoop.

Side in: runed halo, phyrexian metamorph, gaddock teeg, 2x enlightened tutor

Game 2: I land a turn 2 teeg, turn 3 mindcensor, and a turn 4 knight of the reliquary. He scoops shortly after.

Game 3: We each hit early wasteland and creature removal. I’m left with a horizon canopy and birds of paradise against his one bayou. I land a stoneforge mystic and grab a jitte. Next turn equip stoneforge and kill both his dryad arbor and noble hierarch. Turn GSZ for teeg and he scoops.
1-0

Round 2: A.J. Kerrigan withThe Epic Storm 0-2
I’m sure A.J is playing TES since it’s what he always plays and writes about for starcitygames.

Game 1:I lose the die roll and keep a hand with mindcensor. AJ plays land, lotus petal, chome mox, dark ritual and ad nauseum. He flips well and I die.
Side in: gaddock teeg, 2x enlightened tutor, ethersworn canonist, dueling grounds, runed halo, and thron of amethyst

Game 2: I keep a hand with gaddock teeg and thorn of amethyst. I play a savannah and pass. AJ plays a land, dark ritual, dark ritual and ad nauseum. I die shortly after.
1-1

Round 3: Jim Higginbottom with The Epic Storm 2-1
I put Jim on playing a Bug deck since that is what he usually runs but I was wrong. Turns out he was playing TES which I knew he owned but he hasn’t played it in a long time.

Game 1:I won the die roll and kept a hand with mindcensor but no mana dork. I play land into mother of runes. He plays scalding tarn and passes. I follow with a land into a GSZ for noble hierarch. He then plays gemstone mine into dark ritual, rite of flame eventually getting ad nauseum and I die.

Side in same as round 2

Game 2: I land a turn 2 teeg and follow with a turn 3 mother of runes. This forces him to go for grapeshot but when he sees he will be one mana short, he goes for deathmark instead to kill gaddock teeg. I play both noble and pridemage and start swinging for 5 a turn until he dies.

Game 3: He plays land into ponder. I play land and pass. He plays land into duress and in response I E tutor for ethersworn canonist. He takes GSZ and passes. I land ethersworn and win because he counted his echoing truth as the imprint for chome mox but since he used it to bounce ethersworn at EOT he loses.
2-1

Round 4:Joey LaGravenese with Br Gate 2-0
Game 1: Joey gets stuck on one land. I play turn 2 teeg, turn 3 knight, turn 4 knight and he scoops.

Side in: runed halo, 2x enlightened tutor, dueling grounds, 2x path to exile

Game 2: He lands a turn 1 lavamancer. I land turn 1 noble hierarch. He plays a turn 2 isochron scepter imprinting diabolic edict. I follow with a turn 2 runed halo naming diabolic edict (my favorite play of the day). He lands another isochron scepter imprinting terminate but I land a mirran crusader after removing lavamancer with a swords. Soon after he dies to mirran crusader.
3-1

Top 4 Adam Ludwigsen with Snapcaster Bug
Game 1: I land a mother of runes which he kills with ghastly demise. He lands a turn 2 goyf while I land a turn 2 stoneforge with gets killed. I lose my equip to hymm to tourach but manage to land mirran crusader. Crusader and goyf end up just staring at each other because goyf is a 6/7. He keeps removing my other creatures and flashes in a snapcaster mage. He forces my scavengine ooze and I soon die after he jaces my crusader multiple turns.

Side in (never tested against snapcaster decks since no one in my meta was playing them yet, so I had no idea what to side in): gaddock teeg and 2x path to exile

Game 2: Pretty much the same game except I die to a vendillion clique while goyf and crusader stare at each other. I actually boarded out mindcensor here and GSZ for scryb ranger only to have it killed.

Props:
-Gaddock tegg/Ethersworn canonist for doing their jobs
-Mirran Cruader for giving gate and bug decks so much trouble
-Sylvan Library for helping me win when it hit the table (2 seems to be the right #)
-Togit for hosting great legacy tournaments

Slops:
-Aven Mindcensor for failing to stop a single fetch and only helping as teeg backup against NO
-Me for taking out terravore and batterskull which both would have been good against snapcaster

I would like to squeeze both terravore and batterskull back into the deck but not sure what to take out. I’m also thinking of adding a second scavenging ooze and a second scryb ranger.

[Fatal]

I made top4 with punishing fire splash losing only one single game in round 5 against ANT preside - he kill me with Ad N in turn 0.

Here is the list and short report:


3 Noble Hierarch
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Eternal Witness
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Tarmogoyf
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Batterskull
3 Mother of Runes
3 Punishing Fire
1 Life from the Loam
2 Sylvan Library
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Taiga
1 Birds of Paradise

//sb
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Choke
3 Mindbreak Trap
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Ancient Grudge


Round 1 BUG Tempo with Delvers

Game 1 - easy win with stoneforge mystics, jitte and batterskull.

Don't have notes about siding, but for sure I made mistake taking out Scryb Ranger

Game 2 - 4 wastelands and ghastly demise made the job against me, lost to delver
Game 3 - I took down 3 delvers with one Engineered Explosives.. but time ends.

0-0-1

Round 2 - Zenith Junk with Moms

Game 1 - Batterskull with sword of light and shadow made the job connected with eternal witness and swords to plowshares - I killed all KotRs in his deck ended at 47 life
Game 2 - similar to game 1, opponent had nice draws started with Mom->Confidant, but punishing fire with jitte made the job


Round 3 - Aggro Bant (UGW Tempo with stifles, Zeniths, KotRs Cliques and Jaces)

Game 1 - 4 StP made the job with Punishing, I killed all KotRs with dryad and cliques.
Game 2 - Opponent had screw after killing Dryad, and wastelanding tropical island.

Round 4 - Mirror GW Maverick
Game 1 - and the last one, we played 55 minutes, this match was exhausting, I draw first punishing when round ends, killed Mom on block, I was stabilize table on batterskull, with Sword of Light and Shadow and Ooze backup. STP 2 KotRs and Terravore gives too much time to end the game in normal time, also opponent was tired. After we realize that we can't kill each other we take draw after 3 turns of termination.

Round 5 - ANT
Game 1 - died in turn 0 after dark, dark Ad N, Tendrils from hand.
Game 2 - He died after he takes trap from my hand with duress, I just put clock on table, land hierarch, KotR, KotR.. attacking..
Game 3 - I keep hand with Mom, Gaddock, Ethersworn Canonist, Trap, lands..draws bojuka, Choke, and Crypt opponent can't face such a hate - I sided here 12 cards..

Top4 - we took split on 4 since we saw that I'm gonna playing Maverick mirror without limited time -3 hours match isn't the funniest thing after 5 hours playing.. - everyone agree to take a split - those matches are exhausting..but I think version with punishing has edge over normal builds having more removal to utility creatures.

Sorry for not posting all side boarding strategies but I was after long work so was little lazy..

[Morte]

I agree with your conclusions about Punishing Mav.

Your list is interesting: it seems you chose to keep all the standard card advantage/quality, hence 4 SFM + 3 equipments, 2 Sylvan Library and one Eternal Witness.

Cutting Thrun and Terravore seems ok in a Punishing list, since control and swarm matchups are inherently improved by Punishing Fire.

However, cutting all Aven Mindcensors and Gaddock Teeg MD seems too much: you’re totally giving up your game 1 against combo and relying on your sideboard for games 2 and 3. But again, in your games 2 and 3 you’ll still be missing 2 or 3 censors, hence 2 or 3 useful piece of hate, and here the hate density is crucial. Generally speaking, against combo standard Maverick is ~30/70% game 1, 60/40 game 2 (on the play) and 50/50 game 3 (on the draw). With your choice I’d say you’re 10/90% game 1, 55/45 game 2 and 45/55 game 3. I don’t think it’s the right way, unless your meta is combo light.

From the manabase point of view, you chose to keep the 4 Wastelands, and added one only fetchable red land. Maybe you’re a bit light of red sources, especially against opposing Wastelands. I think that, if you want to play 3 colors with 22 mana producing lands, the right number of Wastelands is 2 or 3.

This is the list I’m running now:

4 Windswepth Heat
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
2 Savannah
1 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Driad Arbor
1 Karakas
3 Wasteland
1 Maze of Ith

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Mother of Runes
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Aven Mindcensor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Punishing Fire
1 Life from the Loam
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

Sideboard
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Choke
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Red Elemental Blast


I wanted to fit 2 Sylvan Library and one Life from the Loam, which seems very useful for the stability of this configuration. I also wanted a full package of Punishing Fire.

I decided to reduce the SFM + equipments pack. It seems a good choice in Punishing configuration, given that you have another source of CA, and that the role of Batterskull is in some way fulfilled by Punishing Fire too.

I think the list is a good compromise. The manabase seems robust enough too. I’m wondering if, for GWr lists, totally replacing Hierarchs for BoPs could make sense.

[Koby]

Briefly playing the Punishing Fires list, here are some thoughts. My basic list is linked in my signature.

4 Punishing Fire is too much, 3 is fine.
This eats up into slots that would be used for creatures.

Aven Mindcensor is mediocre in the list, compared to the straight version.
With more things to do with 3 mana (Fires) this doesn't seem as strong of a play.

Terravore is still a house, and especially against opposing KotR.
It's nice having a big finisher in the mirror matches. If they can't kill a KotR, they certainly can't kill a Terravore. Terravore is almost always bigger than any single KotR on either side.

Eternal Witness is still good in the list, and probably shouldn't go.
The list doesn't have a way to retrieve dead equipment.

Batterskull isn't needed anymore, and can be replaced with SoLS maindeck.
Batterskull was handling the tribal decks. Fires does so better. SoLS still gives relevant protection against opposing Batterskulls and StP.

List I'm/was testing:

4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Arid Mesa
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Savannah
1 Plateau
1 Taiga
4 Wasteland
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Dryad Arbor

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Mother of Runes
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Gaddock Teeg

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Punishing Fire
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Sylvan Library
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Sideboard
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Maze of Ith
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Choke


I also don't like that this list is more vulnerable to Extirpate/Surgical Extraction/Ooze than previous versions. It really takes out a lot Maverick's punch by relying on Punishing Fires. While its true that against Control this is really good, I think Thrun is overall better against them. When also packing Eternal Witness to recur Thrun after a Wrath of God, this makes it really tough for them. Fires also gets shut out by Counterbalance, which may be starting to rise up again after all the Tempo Thresh is one of the decks to beat.

[Morte]

Could you explain your points with some argumentation, please? The comment about Mindcensor is particularly obscure.

Your reference list would be of help too. Of course Terravore and Witness are “good”, but since we are making room for other stuff, something has to go. If you cut something else, please say what and why.

What is the correlation between Batterskull and SoLaS? Again, without your reference SFM + equipment package, such a comment is quite meaningless.

EDIT - thanks for the improvement to your post.

[Koby]

What is the correlation between Batterskull and SoLaS? Again, without your reference SFM + equipment package, such a comment is quite meaningless.

Without needing Batterskull (to manage swarm aggro), the configuration can go back to 2 Sword of X/Y + Jitte. This is the same configuration used by Death & Taxes, as well as this deck prior to New Phyrexia. SoLS has a lot of value in the maindeck right now due to all the Snapcaster Mage decks, but compared to Batterskull is much weaker.

I rate the equipment:
1. Sword of F/I
2. Jitte
3. Batterskull
4. Sword of L/S
5. Sword of F/F

We can only realistically run 3-4 equipment, and I prefer to run 3. I am aware some Europeans like to run 4, but I feel as though that is too many for the maindeck and for a broad metagame. It might make sense in metagames where longer games are more frequent. Against combo they are dead weight and that's too many cards that do nothing in such a matchup. That is my metagame.

With Punishing Fires being able to control swarms, SoLS is able to punch through with a relevant effect. I think that SoLS is primarily used for color protection more than its triggered abilities. SoFI on the other hand, is more useful for its triggers.

[Morte]

4 Punishing Fire is too much, 3 is fine.
This eats up into slots that would be used for creatures.

Ok, so why are you still playing 4 in your list?

Aven Mindcensor is mediocre in the list, compared to the straight version.
With more things to do with 3 mana (Fires) this doesn't seem as strong of a play.

Again, if it's so mediocre why are you still playing it as a 2of? When evaluating the value of a card, you should consider the function that the card fulfills. The function fulfilled in the GW list is the same function fulfilled in the Punishing list: a unique function, and one of the few maindeck slots against combo, so I'd say nothing changes about Mindcensor between GW and Punishing list.
Also, the cost argument is debatable: every deck plays multiple cards with the same CC, and Punishing Fire costs 2, not 3, you can activate Grove of the Burnwillows only when you effectively need it. If you really have curve issue, fit Punishing Fire in the 2CC cathegory at least.

I also don't like that this list is more vulnerable to Extirpate/Surgical Extraction/Ooze than previous versions.

If they'd play Extirpate or Surgical Extraction against me I'd be happy: card advantage for free is always welcome. This is not Reanimator nor Dredge, and recurring Fire is not vital for us. BTW, if you play properly you can often play around Extraction or Ooze.

It really takes out a lot Maverick's punch by relying on Punishing Fires. While its true that against Control this is really good, I think Thrun is overall better against them. When also packing Eternal Witness to recur Thrun after a Wrath of God, this makes it really tough for them.

I'm not so sure. Usually you play Thrun as a 1of and he's uncounterable only if you play him from your hand. If you GSZ for 5, it's quite obvious that it's the awaited must-counter for the control player. The force of Punishing Fire is exactly its recursion, countering it is useless, it'll be back again, and again, and again.

Fires also gets shut out by Counterbalance, which may be starting to rise up again after all the Tempo Thresh is one of the decks to beat.

We'll see, at the moment this is just speculation, not a point. And in that case Punishing or not Punishing won't be the difference, the deck is always all made by cards with CC 1, 2 or 3.

I rate the equipment:
1. Sword of F/I
2. Jitte
3. Batterskull
4. Sword of L/S
5. Sword of F/F
(...)

I agree and, like you did in your Punishing list, I think that 2 SFM + Jitte + 1 sword is the right configuration for Punishing Mav.

[Koby]

The list posted is the one I'm testing (as in, seein what works and what doesn't). These are initial thoughts and I'm likely going to change it as I test more.

[Morte]

Ok. I think it’s always better to verify the thoughts risen from testing with an actual list: an idea can be great in a vacuum, but less practicable in the economy of a real deck. It’s like the lineup of a sport team: you want all the champions, in a vacuum, but then you have to build a team, balanced, versatile and coherent.

Please share your updated list with your thoughts concretized, when you’ll be ready.

[lordofthepit]

I rate the equipment:
1. Sword of F/I
2. Jitte
3. Batterskull
4. Sword of L/S
5. Sword of F/F

In a Punishing Fire list, I rate Sword of F/F above all the other equipment.

1) Punishing Fires absolutely owns Planeswalkers, the most problematic of which are Jace and Elspeth, so pro-blue and pro-white aren't that useful.
2) Punishing Fires destroys Goblins, Merfolk, and other small creatures, so Sword of Fire and Ice and Umezawa's Jitte aren't as necessary.
3) Untapping all of your lands is very synergistic with Punishing Fires recursion; moreover, the only creatures you might have problem with are big green dudes, so protection from green is very useful.
4) Opponents will occasionally bring in gravehate to deal with Knight of the Reliquary and Punishing Fires; therefore, Sword of Light and Shadow suffers to a minimal extent from splash hate.

[iScare]

hi, i am new to Maverick. Can someone let me know what is scryb ranger is mainly used for in this deck?

Thanks!

[Koby]

hi, i am new to Maverick. Can someone let me know what is scryb ranger is mainly used for in this deck?

Thanks!

Scryb Ranger provides three key elements:
1. Re-use for creatures that have a tap ability (Mother of Runes, Knight of the Reliquary, etc)
2. Works with Dryad Arbor to produce a "fog" effect against non-trampling ground guys
3. Pro-blue flyer against Jace TMS, Vendilion Clique, and Merfolk.

Other uses
4. Helps provide extra mana when you don't have any lands to play for the turn.
5. Protects your Savannahs and Dryad Arbor from Wasteland.

[sir]

I can understand how some people are dropping or boarding Batterskull, because in this environment Stoneforge Mystic dies really fast and if you tutor for it hoping to Stoneforge it in, you're stuck with something you can't cast for a while. His death if you grab Batterskull before summoning sickness wears off is a very likely scenario nowadays, with all the Threshold direct damage running around.

Whereas, grabbing Jitte people aren't really going to go specifically out of their way to kill Stoneforge over other things, counterspell avoidance aside.

Of course it's (batterskull has) won more games for me than you would think just hardcasting the thing late game and equipping it to something, heh.

Or drawing it with an active Stoneforge on the board. That can be useful, or at least a surprising topdeck.

I'm loath to fiddle with the tried-and-true 3 equipment/3-4 Stoneforge but I do like the idea of boarding Batterskull to free up a slot.

I even like the one guy's list at GP Amsterdam (or was it Baltimore?) with just 3 (2?) Jittes and no Mystics. It's interesting, anyway, even if I wouldn't do it -- Stoneforge draws fire for a reason. It's a lovely turn 2 threat, let's not forget, heh.

If you cut Stoneforge (a pretty maverick move), better put strong creatures where it was. We need our 26+ threats, lol.

p.s. I love Scryb Ranger. Really broadly magnificent in play. I think if you run it you'll see what we mean pretty soon. I was skeptical for the first five seconds after playing it.

One is wonderful as a GSZ target. Two is even nicer (since you can surprise them with flash -- it's a testament to how great it is that it's still great if you don't plan to ever flash it in) and I like the lists that do that.

[iScare]

Scryb Ranger provides three key elements:
1. Re-use for creatures that have a tap ability (Mother of Runes, Knight of the Reliquary, etc)
2. Works with Dryad Arbor to produce a "fog" effect against non-trampling ground guys
3. Pro-blue flyer against Jace TMS, Vendilion Clique, and Merfolk.

Other uses
4. Helps provide extra mana when you don't have any lands to play for the turn.
5. Protects your Savannahs and Dryad Arbor from Wasteland.

Thanks!! I can already foresee how much i would be loving this guy against creatures like Batterskull to prevent lifelink effect.

[Zand]

I saw many pages back that someone had been experimenting with Armageddon in the Maverick archetype, I was wondering if that was something other people had tried or even thought was a good idea? Something like add in a few Mox Diamond, 2-3 Armageddon/Ravages (only if you're pimp though ^_^) and an extra Terravore. Plus you could give the deck a cool name like Mavageddon.

Years ago I played around with a Terraggeddon deck and I found in general I just sort of won when Armageddon was successfully cast but I dunno how good it would be in today's meta.

Edit: I guess I should suggest things to cut from the normal build, which is where things get tricky... Running no more than 3 Mums and Stoneforges and probably cutting either a Sword or Batterskull. I've found Batterskull pretty lackluster recently so I'd pick that

[iScare]

Most maverick decks run 4x Knight of the reliquary, Do you think it may be a good idea to cut 1 KoTR for 1 Terravore?

[Fatal]

I wouldn't cut Batterskull from the lists, here are arguments:

1. Its only fat grave imdependent creature in this deck along with goyf
2. It provide CA even if Mystic dies from removal you still have and can just hardcasting - 2-for-1
3. All other equipments need a body this don't
4. In late game it can be bounced so it provide more CA than more ppl think
5. Lifelink and vengilance gives a lot of life, has good synergy with KotRs - its not only vs aggro, also middlerange.

For guys who aren't familiar on sb strategies, with Bojuka and Punishing you can take down any KotRs on table.

Step one Punishing on opp KotR
Step two Fetch Bojuka (or play it from your hand -> even better).

Next thing in mirror MU Punishing shine thanks to all ulitity creatures (hierarch/Bop/scryb/etc) are x/1 or x/2 (stoneforge/pridemage). It also helps a lot in Bant MU.

Next thing -> Perish can be brutal, cutting Stoneforge we changing creatures for more green one so it will be more dangerous - that's wrong direction. With SoLs can recur all of them.

Now a word about Snapcaster Mage - belive me or not, but it's not so good as many ppl thought -> it's just slow, key vs all those deck is attacking manabase and brutal aggro.

At the end, combo MU, since NLT, Snapcaster controls (many varations) and also CB is backing I decided to cut all anti-combo slots from MD since we met combo not too often, and even with them most time first game is lose. For example on last tournament I faced ANT in round 5. I died on turn 0 in first game - where Aven helps ? No where, there was only one MU where it could be good - Mirror. NO decks are also not too often faced by me so I cut them entirely to have better cards MD vs other MU. VS Combo i focused on SB where I put 12 cards (straight dedicated about 7 - 3 traps, 2 canonists, Gaddock, adding Crypt, Surgical, E.Tutor, Bojuka, 2 Chokes to shut down more routes).

[sir]

Thanks, good thoughts. I tend to agree with your points actually, and as I said I don't think I'm in the business of cutting Batterskull either. (and definitely not stoneforge)

Still, devil's advocate a little.

In terms of maximizing advantage, sure it's card advantage to put it in your hand but if you cast Stoneforge turn two, fetch it and then Stoneforge gets smoked then you almost certainly wish you grabbed jitte (or a sword) IMO.

I have hardcasted and re-equipped Batterskull many, many times but interestingly I've never found an easy occasion for bouncing it back to hand. One can hardly pay for Thrun. (I run 23 lands (including Ith and Arbor) and the full complement of mana dudes and I think that it's still the case that Maverick is a very mana-hungry deck, and vulnerable to disruption or bad plays.) It's not particularly economical in the mid-game to think of bouncing the Skull, unless your Stoneforge liveth. Nevertheless, it's also the case being -able- to do it causes difficulty for the opponent since they have to play around the ability.

Jitte can life-gain you as much, and also completely control the board (or swing for the win equipped to a flier like Mindcensor or Ranger or Birds of Paradise if you pack one.)

Your point about green hate like Perish (or very often in my opinion, just some sort of protection green) (and Batterskull being black and Stoneforge being white) is a very good one. I hadn't thought of this and I've definitely experienced the Germ token's color being a great help in getting over.

Then again, when I mention threats to replace it, I definitely mean Mirran Crusader, the champion of all matches vs. aggro. At least 2 and that one deck that cut Stoneforge and Batterskull (just had 2 jittes) was a 3 Crusader deck. (Incidentally if you can expect for your double-striking Crusader to see combat then a choice of fetching Jitte (instead of Batterskull) is probably vastly improved. And you don't need to choose Sword of Feast and Famine as your sword either, haha.)

So my line of question is not as to Batterskull being good or not ... it just comes down to is that one slot worth it? (And if you're dropping Batterskull, then maybe you can just run Jitte, which is I guess how this line of reasoning came about.) I mean, if I cut Batterskull then I don't have to choose either 2 Qasali Pridemages or 2 Aven Mindcensors, neither of which number is the optimal 3 each. (actually, I like 2 mindcensors, but yeah) Or hey, you could put in a second Scavenging Ooze (excellent thinking IMO) or a second Scryb Ranger or a single Eternal Witness ... we're always pressed for space. :P

More clearly, here's I think the matter: Is Batterskull a worthy maindeck include if you expect to rarely if ever use an early Stoneforge to fetch it? And in the late game, would you rather topdeck something else? How about another piece of game-changing equipment, which if you could hardcast Batterskull you have the mana to equip and swing with as soon as you draw? What about, um ... Elspeth Knight-Errant? Seriously.

For me the answer is still to include it, because it always did me right in the past and working out Stoneforge is too much of a leap for me. But I am keeping a close eye on the metagame.

Sorry this post is so disorganized, everyone, I realize that. Just sleep deprived and in a hurry.

The list I've been talking about, incidentally: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=51133 (suffered no losses at Amsterdam, FWIW, if I'm understanding that right)

Thanks for the work on Punishing Fire too!


p.s. What is with the single Crucible of Worlds maindeck with the only tutor for it in SB, in this Punishing Maverick list (Trial Winner Amsterdam):? http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...9&iddeck=51141 Can anyone explain the choice?

[Morte]

What is with the single Crucible of Worlds maindeck with the only tutor for it in SB, in this Punishing Maverick list (Trial Winner Amsterdam):? http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...9&iddeck=51141 Can anyone explain the choice?

That's the former Punishing Mav list by Fabian Gorzgen, the guy who T8 the GP. As you can see, the list is almost the same as the one who brought him to the top 2 days later, being the only difference one Crucible of Worlds in place of the singleton Life from the Loam he played in his final list.

The purpose is the same in both lists: a manabase fixer, required to compensate the gap in stability of the Punishing manabase. Played as a one of, I suppose, intending it as something more versatile than just adding an extra land (like Sami Valkamaa, the guy finishing 9th at the GP with Punishing Mav, did - playing 23 mana producing lands instead of 22).

About why Gorzgen preferred Life from the Loam over Crucible of Worlds, I think it's because Life from the Loam

• is more resilient (Crucible can be destroyed/countered, LftL has endless recursion)
• thanks to Dredge, LftL can put free extra Punishing Fire in the GY
• thanks to Dredge, LftL puts extra lands in the GY, providing more flexibility in the land choice to replace to hand
• thanks to Dredge, LftL puts extra lands in the GY, synergizing better with KotR

For these same reasons, I like a lot the singleton Life from the Loam in Punishing Maverick with 22 mana-producing lands.

[sir]

Yeah, Life from the Loam, recurrent and not subject to standard removal, is a terrific spell and makes plenty of sense to me as a long-game CA singleton (in the slot where some people put Sylvan Library, I would guess) even without a Punishing list. I haven't run it in Maverick but I've seen it used in non-Punishing builds, particularly in board. (I think some of the high-scoring Maverick decks in USA SCG events in the past few months saw it being used.) Not just "CA advantage" (in the non-encompassing sense) actually, since you can wreck people with wasteland if you happen to have everything set up just-so.

I did guess that Crucible is in place of LFTL, but why the choice? Seems to have very little advantage over Loam in our context.

Actually, I suppose thinking about it more those Enlightened Tutors are still there in the sideboard, so you can pull the three together if you want in games 2-3, which makes it the most accessible option. May just be that simple. But the copy you fetch is more likely to get smoked ... and anyway aren't we usually going to use Enlightened Tutor on hate pieces if we made the choice to board them in? (edit: I may be thinking too inflexibly. It offers one more possible way to SB ... like if you were coming up against Pox, without double-checking his SB choices I think you would put in the Tutors to join that Crucible and nothing else, ahhaha. before you would put in nothing, or fiddle with it pointlessly. however, I still would prefer loam in the Pox battle.)

I'm sure there's rationale here and results don't lie. I'm just curious an' all.

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Reply to Zand:

Edit: I guess I should suggest things to cut from the normal build, which is where things get tricky... Running no more than 3 Mums

Now this is crazy. Unless Maverick lists are going to start investigating the Sylvan Safekeeper tech ...

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Most maverick decks run 4x Knight of the reliquary, Do you think it may be a good idea to cut 1 KoTR for 1 Terravore?

Cutting KotR IMO definitely not, but you can run a Terravore ...