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Thread: [Deck] GW/x Maverick

  1. #81

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    The most potencial I see for making cuts in your list would be the 4th hierarch ( you still have 8 T1 manadork plays, I can agree with the 3/1 split on birds and hierarch) and possibly the sword of feast and famine or the RWM, which isn't needed IMO.

    While the missteps take care of CC 1 removal, you also have to keep in mind that MoM might be needed to connect with an equipped dork, allowing you to swing the game. Or prevent Jace from bouncing one of your guys. Also T1 mom helps against fast aggro decks where equipment might be too slow.

    How has the predator been treating you so far?

  2. #82
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    @HPB: lol no Dryad Arbor. You guys should really just stop spamming lists from the top of your head that you never even played with and then argue that these "work out for you". 20 mana producing lands (including 4 Wastelands) is a joke. Same with Lordot. He even says that he never tested with it and then refuses to take advice. The only tested list on the last pages is Mortes (though I disagree with Maze and Equipment choices). 4 MoR, 2 Elspeth and the GSZ tutor package tell me that we had similar test results.

  3. #83

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    The most potencial I see for making cuts in your list would be the 4th hierarch ( you still have 8 T1 manadork plays, I can agree with the 3/1 split on birds and hierarch) and possibly the sword of feast and famine or the RWM, which isn't needed IMO.
    I hadn't thought of cutting the fourth Hierarch. Certainly worth testing out.


    How has the predator been treating you so far?
    Fairly well. Very good in some match-ups, very poor in others. At the very least, it always has evasion and can eat equipment, which seems to be infesting Legacy at the moment.

    @HPB: lol no Dryad Arbor.
    Dryad Arbor is generally good in only one situation - the one where you need to ramp up into three mana on turn two and have no Birds or Hierarch in your hand.

    Beyond that, it's not especially useful. I could see cutting it, but it would have to be for another land.

    You guys should really just stop spamming lists from the top of your head that you never even played with and then argue that these "work out for you". 20 mana producing lands (including 4 Wastelands) is a joke. Same with Lordot. He even says that he never tested with it and then refuses to take advice. The only tested list on the last pages is Mortes (though I disagree with Maze and Equipment choices). 4 MoR, 2 Elspeth and the GSZ tutor package tell me that we had similar test results.
    You, friend, need to stop being so aggressive. You have no idea how much testing I've done with this list, and just because it doesn't have similar results as your own does not make it wrong.

    You can either attempt to be constructive in some way, or I can ignore you as you continue to troll. I don't particularly care which, but I would hope you do.

  4. #84
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    I have nothing constructive to say about about a list with 4 GSZ and 0 Dryad Arbor. It just makes no sense.

  5. #85
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    My opinion is that ramping up to three mana with GSZ-->Dryad arbor is great and is worth it. It makes GSZ mana or threat, which increases the consistency of the deck.

  6. #86
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    Sorry, but Tao is absolutely right. You really want to have Arbor when running a full set of Zeniths; and you probably should even run it with only three Zeniths. Further, you're running way too few lands. My current list runs 23 lands including four Wastelands, four Horizon Canopies and Singletons of Dryad Arbor and Maze Of Ith. That list is running really well right now, my girlfriend and I are gauntlet-testing it and I'm really impressed by the results.
    What I can definitely advocate is running Batterskull and a full set of Stoneforge Mystics. Stoneforge Mystic plus Wasteland is just really really strong. What I'm also doing right now is trying out more copies of Terravore, that seems pretty good. These might as well be Elspeth, Knight-Errant or Mirran Crusader though. I'm also looking to test Sylvan Library, seems good.

  7. #87
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    I'm lead to believe that when running Sylvan Library, Batterskull is very heavily desired in the equipment package. Being able to cheat out extra cards from all the life gain with Batterskull may appear as win-more, but every single card makes the difference between winning and losing.

    I too agree that playing more lands is desirable. I've come to the conclusion during testing that Tundra has no place in the deck - it can't produce green mana and eats up a land slot. On a similar note, Misty Rainforest is also really really bad as a fetchland for the deck. I have swapped it for a white-Fetcher, as getting the basic Plains is highly valuable with cards such as Elspeth in the deck. I'm possibly thinking that no blue dual lands are needed at all - they end up being a liability more often than being useful to cast Mental Misstep. I even have a blue card SB in my Etutor-board plan to find Energy Flux (btw, highly recommended - it answers Affinity which would otherwise run us over)

    My mana base as of now:

    2 Horizon Canopy
    2 Savannah
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Forest
    1 Plains
    4 Windswept heath
    1 Arid Mesa
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Gaea's Cradle
    4 Wasteland
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Karakas
    1 Dryad Arbor

    I only ever search out Tropical Island if I anticipate sacrificing it to KotR within 1 turn, otherwise it's a wash.
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  8. #88

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    I have nothing constructive to say about about a list with 4 GSZ and 0 Dryad Arbor. It just makes no sense.
    And this would be my fault, because there is supposed to be a Dryad Arbor in that list. Not sure where it went.

    You can kind of tell when I was talking about how it might be worth cutting, but I suppose we both did a little fail on reading comprehension there.

  9. #89

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    for those who play the slight blue splash with their e-tutor package, do you find energy flux better than serenity?

  10. #90

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    I've been tinkering on a list and came to the conclusion that Fatal's list is a pretty good reverence to start off with. Having this in mind I started to cumstomize it to my own preferences and came up with this:



    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Tarmogoyf
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Terravore
    1 Rhox War Monk
    1 Scryb Ranger
    1 Rafiq of the Many
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Dryad Arbor

    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Sylvan Library

    3 Mental Misstep
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

    2 Forest
    1 Plains
    2 Horizon Canopy
    4 Savannah
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Windswept heath
    1 Wooded Foothills
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Karakas
    4 Wasteland

    I've change it up a little bit

    -1 Goyf
    -1 Gaddock Teeg
    -1 Sword of Light and Shadow

    +2 Sylvan Library
    +1 Batterskull
    +1 Stoneforge Mystic

    -The reason I cut my second goyf is because unlike most bluebased decks our goyf never seems to reach full status on it's own and there for is only good in certain MU's.

    -The same goes for the Gaddock Teeg, having this one on the side should probably enough, all though GSZ for a teeg with misstep back up is certainly nice. This play is very crucial in our combo MU as they run chain of vapors MB.

    -My personal favorite is Batterskull, this for all the obvious reasons. It's an All-Star against aggro matchups and in the late game it can provide you with a nice string of blockers or attackers, depending on what role it must take on.

    -The third Mystic is mainly because it's not a GSZ target, therefor 3 copies of it are a must to my standards.

    -Having two copies of Sylvan Library in combination with a RWM and Batterskull let's you draw more cards without real loss of life. In other situations it just provides you with extra depth and keeps a steady string of juice flowing.

    In this list I've opted not to play MoR, in other lists I did ran them. For those who've tested more than me, I know run Missteps in her slots and reckon them to be a crucial part of our deck in the new metagame. But isn't the loss of MoR hard felt?

  11. #91
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    I don't think Batterskull fits into "fun vs win%". It actually helps the deck much better than Sword of Light and Shadow for the MD.
    I need some explanation here. In my testing, the effects of SoLS are the most desirable against Zoo. Life gain can really save your life and you always have small critters in the yard to recur.

    Batterskull, if resolved, would be even better: but it’s really hard to resolve it with SFM, i.e. before it’s (too) late.

    In my experience, Zoo has so many removals that my SFM is almost always fried immediately (and I play 4 MoR).

    Maybe with Mental Misstep the situation is a little better, but I can’t believe you’re consistently able to resolve your Butterskull in time.

    Quote Originally Posted by rukcus View Post
    It also single-handedly beats Merfolk without much effort, and that's not to be dismissed.
    True, but my Merfolk metchup is very easy without Batterskull too.

    In which matchups do you find Batterskull making the difference?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tao View Post
    The only tested list on the last pages is Mortes (though I disagree with Maze and Equipment choices).
    Thanks Tao, why do you disagree with the Maze?

    And what's your SFM/equipment configuration?

    I’d greatly appreciate to know your equipment strategy for the various matchups.
    Last edited by Morte; 06-08-2011 at 11:02 AM.
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  12. #92
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    IMHO, about equipment I don't understand people who package other Swords than F&I or L&S with Jitte and/or Batterskull (I mean switching F&I and/or L&S for B&M and/or F&F/W&P). Yes, protection from green is awesome to attack a big dude, yes, putting a 2/2 bear or specially untap all our lands is marvellous, but I found best the critter-recursion of SoLaS as Morte said, even a Qasali (always useful giving one more exalted trigger) a Knight... or also I prefer the abilities of SoFaI (also protect a Mirran from red bolt or blue bouncing is awesome letting Misstep for possible StoP/Path). From the newer swords, I like a lot the War and Peace protections (not so the abilities).

    I know Gaddock is sometimes a dead card in some MU, but I prefer a dead card than no solutions to combo in 1st game.

    I also want to test Terravore, seems cool with GSZ, but I'm not sure about including Rafiq to my list.

  13. #93
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    I'm really glad to see the thread, and that it's a DTB. I was actually looking to build a new deck a while ago and decided on a GW agro deck. A friend of mine pointed out the topic and mentioned that I had a lot of the core deck and to look through this thread.
    My original deck was pretty good, a lot better than any of my previous deck. I haven't done too much testing with it, but the testing I did do showed me that the deck had potential and was really fun to play. I also never really finished that deck, I kept playing around with proxies to see what would work.

    my original deck:

    // Lands (21)
    3 Forest
    4 Horizon Canopy
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Maze of Ith
    2 Plains
    1 Savannah
    1 Temple Garden
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland

    // Creatures (24)
    2 Birds of Paradise
    2 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Garruk's Companion
    1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Mother of Runes
    2 Noble Hierarch
    4 Qasali Pridemage
    2 Sigiled Paladin
    2 Terravore
    1 Thrun, the Last Troll

    // Spells (10)
    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Sword of Body and Mind
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Sylvan Library
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Like I said, it wasn't a complete list, and I can't remember what I used for proxies. But after reading through here and seeing everyone's take on the deck and their deck list, I've retooled mine to look like this: (still not complete, not sure what to put in)


    // Creatures (23)
    1 Birds of Paradise
    1 Eternal Witness
    2 Gaddock Teeg
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    3 Mother of Runes
    3 Noble Hierarch
    4 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Rafiq of the Many
    1 Tarmogoyf
    2 Terravore
    1 Thrun, the Last Troll

    // Spells (13)
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Sword of Body and Mind
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Sylvan Library
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    ###Possible additions### (1)
    2 Dueling Grounds

    // Lands (21)
    2 Forest
    4 Horizon Canopy
    2 Marsh Flats
    1 Maze of Ith
    1 Plains
    2 Savannah
    1 Temple Garden
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wasteland


    Total: 57


    // Sideboard 12
    1 Bojuka Bog
    2 Choke
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    2 Krosan Grip
    2 Serenity
    2 Silence
    2 Thorn of Amethyst

    ###Maybe###
    1 Cold-Eyed Selkie



    So, as you see my MD has only 57 total, I know I need at least 1 more equipment, though I'm not sure which one. I'm leaning torwards either SoFaI or SoLaS. I also know that I'm not running any copies of Stoneforge Mystic, I kind of want to try it out without her and see how it fairs.

    Other than that, any comments would be greatly appreciated on either the MD or SB.

  14. #94
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    My current Equipment pack is SoBaM, Jitte and Batterskull. But I guess with Mirran Crusader Pro: Green is less needed. For me SoLaS is not doing anything 2/3 of the time, but some people seem dead set on it so I won't argue.
    Vs. Zoo it isn't bad if they kill SFM right away and you don't get to play Batterskull for cheap. Just calcalute that into your game plan when you tutor for it tol buy some time because they have to spend their main phase killing your guy instead of playing their undercosted guys.
    I do not like Maze because it is a bad draw that you can easily do without. It is 100% dead vs. both Combo and Control and only useful against Aggro decks when enough things come together: you are in the defense, you have too much Mana and they have a big attacker. Also those decks usually play Wasteland anyway so it is not very realiable. Only with Affinity in the Meta I would play it.

    I cut Teeg from the Maindeck, too. It meddles with your own Zenith's and Elspeth's which often enough hurts you more than your opponents. It is also not good enough against BUG Jacestill because of Deed. On top of that it doesn't even do much against the most popular Combo decks: Painterstone doesn't care and Hive Mind can still Show and Tell into Hive Mind which is their preferred win against GW anyway.

  15. #95
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    Totally agree on Teeg.

    So you play 3 SFM + 1x SoBaM, Jitte and Batterskull? I'd like to see your list for reference.
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  16. #96
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    4 SFM. It is maybe the best card atm so I wouldn't play less than that.



    // Lands
    3 [FUT] Horizon Canopy
    4 [ON] Windswept Heath
    3 [U] Savannah
    2 [LRW] Forest
    1 [6E] Plains
    4 [MPR] Wasteland
    2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
    1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
    1 [US] Gaea's Cradle
    1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
    1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog

    // Creatures
    4 [FNM] Mother of Runes
    2 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
    1 [4E] Birds of Paradise
    3 [FNM] Qasali Pridemage
    4 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
    4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
    1 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
    1 [FNM] Eternal Witness
    1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
    1 [OD] Terravore

    // Spells
    4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
    2 [NPH] Mental Misstep
    4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
    1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
    1 [NPH] Batterskull
    1 [SOM] Sword of Body and Mind
    2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
    SB: 1 [ROE] Vengevine
    SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
    SB: 2 [FNM] Krosan Grip
    SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 3 [CFX] Path to Exile
    SB: 2 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
    SB: 1 [WL] Null Rod
    SB: 1 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst

  17. #97
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    No love for Choke in the sideboard Tutor package? This card is so good at bullying blue decks!

    EDIT: Drum up some more discussion -

    Here's my sideboard currently:
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Gaddock teeg
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Choke
    1 Energy Flux
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Oblivion Ring

    there's 2 cards I can't remember at this point - I'll update this when I look at my list. This is highly tailored towards my metagame - Landstill, Equipment decks, and Combo. Qasali Pridemage in the board is #4 in the 75, and brought in against Affinity, Enchantress, and the mirror. Energy Flux is supported by 1 Tropical Island and 4 Hierarchs in the maindeck, and is necessary to beat Affinity; who otherwise run us over with swarms+Plating. Oblivion Ring is double purpose against both Planeswalker control decks and Emrakul style decks, but also useful against Batterskulls. It's a tutorable catch-all.

    I'm starting to think that maybe Life from the Loam wouldn't be a bad idea against the Landstill decks too.
    Last edited by Koby; 06-08-2011 at 01:02 PM. Reason: content
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  18. #98
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    If you find room for Choke or if the Meta is that way then Choke is very good. But I don't side E. Tutor vs. blue noncombo decks so a 1-off wouldn't help much. The SB is very hard to build. I'd also like Mindcensors and tons of other stuff.

  19. #99

    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    @ rukcus: do you find energy flux that much better than a serenity?

  20. #100
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    Re: [DTB] GW/x Maverick

    Quote Originally Posted by lilrikki2000 View Post
    @ rukcus: do you find energy flux that much better than a serenity?
    I knew I was glossing over something!
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