[EDH] Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed (formerly Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon)

[Kuma]

- Mind Twist
- Mind Sludge
- Cabal Conditioning
- Myojin of Night's Reach

+ Nihil Spellbomb
+ Withered Wretch
+ Mana Vault
+ Nevinyrral's Disk

The discard spells have been increasingly terrible for me. By the time I can cast my discard spells, my opponents already have an incredible board presence. Myojin of Night's Reach might go back in, but right now I don't think I'll miss him.

There are too many broken graveyard decks out there to be running so little graveyard hate. Tormod's Crypt may be a better add than Withered Wretch, but for now I'm going to try the Wretch.

The deck has been a little too slow recently. I've added Mana Vault to speed it up a little, but there needs to be more acceleration. I need suggestions for good acceleration pieces, mana rocks, etc.

More than ever, I've been needing to sweep the board at an earlier and earlier turn. I think this warrants the re-adding of Nevinyrral's Disk.

[Davran]

The deck has been a little too slow recently. I've added Mana Vault to speed it up a little, but there needs to be more acceleration. I need suggestions for good acceleration pieces, mana rocks, etc.

One of my "hidden gem" acceleration cards is Black Market. I find that people don't pack as much enchantment hate as they probably should and that there are plenty of decks out there that just can't deal with it at all. You're already running plenty of removal, so who knows...this might get there for you.

Of course you could always just go down the Thran Dynamo road. Or, pick up a Jet Medallion. Charcoal Diamond is another option, as is Coldsteel Heart.

[Kuma]

One of my "hidden gem" acceleration cards is Black Market. I find that people don't pack as much enchantment hate as they probably should and that there are plenty of decks out there that just can't deal with it at all. You're already running plenty of removal, so who knows...this might get there for you.

Black Market is a card I've liked for a long time, but I think it's too slow for my purposes. I need stuff that can power out a fast sweeper.

Of course you could always just go down the Thran Dynamo road. Or, pick up a Jet Medallion. Charcoal Diamond is another option, as is Coldsteel Heart.

Those are more like what I'm looking for. I'd prefer cards that give me extra lands since they survive sweepers, but my options are sadly lacking in black.

I'll keep you guys updated when I figure this out.

[Kuma]

Dark Ascension changes:

- Liliana Vess

+ Increasing Ambition

For five mana I can either tutor to the top of my deck once, maybe twice, or tutor to my hand once with the possibility of tutoring to my hand twice more for another mana investment. Seems like a straight upgrade.

[Amon Amarth]

I'm running a list that's pretty similar to yours with a few differences. Have you considered using Dark Ritual as a 2nd Mana Vault? I've been happy with it. First turn Arena is so good.

I've recently added Grave Titan to my deck and he is such a beast. Most of the decks in my play group are filled with tons of utility dorks, small beaters, and Titan puts a stop to that shit real fast. He is an incredible standalone threat.

Also, you misspelled Nihil Spellbomb. :P

[Kuma]

I'm running a list that's pretty similar to yours with a few differences. Have you considered using Dark Ritual as a 2nd Mana Vault? I've been happy with it. First turn Arena is so good.

I hadn't considered it, but that's a good idea. In my playgroup, this deck definitely needs to be able to reset the game faster.

I've recently added Grave Titan to my deck and he is such a beast. Most of the decks in my play group are filled with tons of utility dorks, small beaters, and Titan puts a stop to that shit real fast. He is an incredible standalone threat.

I'm kind of in a tough spot with this deck. My playgroup has gone "nuclear" and this deck has become too slow. It's also difficult for it to interact with all the crazy artifacts. I'm not sure where to take the deck from here. Grave Titan seems like it would be a fine inclusion in a slower group, but it's a little too slow for me. We're working on building some decks for when we're tired of wailing on each other with Sharuum the Hegemon, Arcum Dagsson, and Oona, Queen of the Fae. I might use Skithiryx for that, and then I'll be able to decide if Grave Titan is good enough.

Also, you misspelled Nihil Spellbomb. :P

Thanks. I blame the American educational system for teaching me that Nihil was spelled N-e-c-r-o-g-e-n.

[Amon Amarth]

In hyper competitive playgroups Needle/Revoker seems like it would be super good. You can drop it on Necro to screw Zur or just hit Azami, Arcum, etc. There really aren't a ton of good cards to deal with artifacts except Gate to Phyrexia but that only works in more creature heavy decks.

[Davran]

I'm sure everyone has probably moved on from this deck...but maybe there is some historical perspective:

Other than the "rule of 3rd best", have you had any issues with people hating you out simply because your general has infect? I'm looking for a new direction to take my next EDH deck, and I've always had a bit of a soft spot for "mono-black control"...I'm just mostly afraid Skittles will put a big target on my chest no matter how I play it.

As far as the artifact and enchantment destruction problem - I used to run a Drana list way back when I first got into this format, and I found that if something was a problem for me it was probably also a problem for the other two players at the table. It's nice to be able to answer everything, but this isn't 1v1...so playing politics is a must.

[Kuma]

I'm sure everyone has probably moved on from this deck...but maybe there is some historical perspective:

I wouldn't say I've "moved on." This is still my favorite EDH deck I've ever built. It's about 3/4 pimped out, and an absolute blast to play. It doesn't handle top-tier artifact decks very well, but I think if I added Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker it would go a long way towards fixing that.

Other than the "rule of 3rd best", have you had any issues with people hating you out simply because your general has infect? I'm looking for a new direction to take my next EDH deck, and I've always had a bit of a soft spot for "mono-black control"...I'm just mostly afraid Skittles will put a big target on my chest no matter how I play it.

I've never been targeted for my general having Infect (that I'm aware of). I usually bust this out to play with random people since it has problems handling my playgroup, and no one has ever complained about Infect. If you're worried about people targeting you for Infect, you could run Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed or Maga, Traitor to Mortals as the general by changing maybe 2-3 cards.

As far as the artifact and enchantment destruction problem - I used to run a Drana list way back when I first got into this format, and I found that if something was a problem for me it was probably also a problem for the other two players at the table. It's nice to be able to answer everything, but this isn't 1v1...so playing politics is a must.

That's true, but the other two people in may playgroup are rocking Sharuum the Hegemon and Arcum Dagsson. Both are fast combo decks that are light on answers. This deck has a hard time interacting with artifacts. Also, we know each other's decks so well that Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon has lost about all its stealth factor. When I'm playing with strangers, I can sit there and tutor while looking innocent, but my playgroup knows to target me after the second tutor. It's gotten to the point where they know how much mana to keep me off of just by the cards I've played. It's still fun to hear strangers say, "I had no idea he was about to combo." Even after I've played several tutors.

[Davran]

I wouldn't say I've "moved on." This is still my favorite EDH deck I've ever built. It's about 3/4 pimped out, and an absolute blast to play. It doesn't handle top-tier artifact decks very well, but I think if I added Pithing Needle/Phyrexian Revoker it would go a long way towards fixing that.

Nothing really handles the top tier artifact decks well given the amount of recursion and redundancy that they have. I find that I place a premium on spells that will exile something simply because they can't get it back.

That said, it seems Leyline of the Void might create a problem for a Sharuum player.

I've never been targeted for my general having Infect (that I'm aware of). I usually bust this out to play with random people since it has problems handling my playgroup, and no one has ever complained about Infect. If you're worried about people targeting you for Infect, you could run Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed or Maga, Traitor to Mortals as the general by changing maybe 2-3 cards.

I've always wanted to run Xiahou Dun, but he is way out of my price range. Maybe some day I'll be lucky enough to get my hands on one...but until then I'm stuck squarely on the "budget" end of the table. Hell, I'm super excited about the Crucible of Worlds I finally acquired.

Also, we know each other's decks so well that Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon has lost about all its stealth factor. When I'm playing with strangers, I can sit there and tutor while looking innocent, but my playgroup knows to target me after the second tutor. It's gotten to the point where they know how much mana to keep me off of just by the cards I've played. It's still fun to hear strangers say, "I had no idea he was about to combo." Even after I've played several tutors.

This is the exact problem I am having with my Glissa list, which is leading me here. I love the deck to death, but I'm finding people know my game plan almost by heart. I have to imagine that if someone wanted to they could easily shut me down with a well timed Jester's Cap or some similar effect.

As a follow-up, it seems Skittles is more of your backup win - do you find you end up "comboing out" via Coffers + Exsanguinate more often than you win via slapping a Lashwrite on Skittles and going to town?

Lastly, what do you think of Koskun Falls? Obviously the list in the OP can't really support it due to the low creature count, but it seems like the kind of thing no one would ever expect out of a mono-black deck.

[Kuma]

Nothing really handles the top tier artifact decks well given the amount of recursion and redundancy that they have.

This. I usually need to wipe the board to win, and I'm usually a turn too slow.

That said, it seems Leyline of the Void might create a problem for a Sharuum player.

It certainly does, but it's not really enough. If I don't have it in my opening hand, I can't cast it fast enough.

As a follow-up, it seems Skittles is more of your backup win - do you find you end up "comboing out" via Coffers + Exsanguinate more often than you win via slapping a Lashwrite on Skittles and going to town?

It's hard to say. Most of my wins come from infinite mana + Exsanguinate. Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon + Nightmare Lash/Lashwrithe is second followed by Helm of Obedience/Leyline of the Void. I'd guess the percentages are probably 55%/30%/15%.

Lastly, what do you think of Koskun Falls? Obviously the list in the OP can't really support it due to the low creature count, but it seems like the kind of thing no one would ever expect out of a mono-black deck.

It's a cute card that no one has heard of that grants an effect black normally doesn't get. That said, I think No Mercy and Dread are better for deterring attack.

[Davran]

This. I usually need to wipe the board to win, and I'm usually a turn too slow.

Always a turn too slow to beat the combo...sounds like legacy now! I'm hoping for some more efficient black spells out of R&D, they've been getting dangerously close to something cool lately...seems like they're holding back. Too bad they aren't exercising the same restraint with blue cards...

It's hard to say. Most of my wins come from infinite mana + Exsanguinate. Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon + Nightmare Lash/Lashwrithe is second followed by Helm of Obedience/Leyline of the Void. I'd guess the percentages are probably 55%/30%/15%.

Good to know, thanks for the breakdown. I was thinking about running some other equipment (Strata Scythe is at the top of the list) but it seems I should be focusing more on the spell-based kill than poisoning them out.

[Kuma]

Good to know, thanks for the breakdown. I was thinking about running some other equipment (Strata Scythe is at the top of the list) but it seems I should be focusing more on the spell-based kill than poisoning them out.

I used to run four equipment. Sigil of Distinction and Strata Scythe were the other two. Thing is, you have so many tutors that you don't need to run more than two equipment. One to kill them with and one in case they get rid of your first one.

Edit:

- Bloodgift Demon
- Scrying Sheets

+ Pithing Needle
+ Phyrexian Revoker

[Amon Amarth]

@Kuma: Is Muse being 1 cheaper than Demon why you took it out instead? I like Demon more because I run Grafted Exoskeleton as well as Army of the Damned, the latter of which can make Muse awkward.

How good have the transmute tutors been for you? I've never been very happy with them and I run business spells in their place. They've been too narrow too often for my liking.

[Davran]

How good have the transmute tutors been for you? I've never been very happy with them and I run business spells in their place. They've been too narrow too often for my liking.

Out of curiosity, what are you running in their place?

Also, slightly curious about the removal of Bloodgift Demon. It's a champ at drawing me cards, and it often eats up spot removal that would otherwise be pointed at one of my other dudes.

[Amon Amarth]

Out of curiosity, what are you running in their place?

Necropotence and Ancient Craving.

[Kuma]

@Kuma: Is Muse being 1 cheaper than Demon why you took it out instead? I like Demon more because I run Grafted Exoskeleton as well as Army of the Damned, the latter of which can make Muse awkward.

Yeah, that's why. I'm not running Grafted Exoskeleton or anything that makes zombies, so there's no awkwardness with Graveborn Muse. Bloodgift Demon's bigger body is totally irrelevant because I never win with combat damage.

How good have the transmute tutors been for you? I've never been very happy with them and I run business spells in their place. They've been too narrow too often for my liking.

I don't think the Transmute tutors are narrow.

Dimir Machinations gets:

Grim Tutor, Cruel Tutor, or Praetor's Grasp -> anything
Basalt Monolith and Rings of Brighthearth for comboing.
Oblivion Stone for wiping the board.
Crucible of Worlds for getting Cabal Coffers back.
Phyrexian Arena for card draw.
Ashes to Ashes and Fleshbag Marauder for creature killing.
Yawgmoth's Will because dear God, have you ever cast Yawgmoth's Will?

Dimir House Guard gets:

Diabolic Tutor or Insidious Dreams -> anything
Helm of Obedience and Leyline of the Void for comboing.
Nightmare Lash and Lashwrithe for killing with Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon.
Nevinyrral's Disk for wiping the board.
Graveborn Muse for card drawing.
Solemn Simulacrum for mana acceleration.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed for graveyard recursion.
Infernal Darkness for winning.
Barter in Blood, Damnation, and Mutilate for creature killing.

tl;dr: Both Transmute tutors can find something to do pretty much whatever the deck wants to do. They're no Demonic Tutor, but they're not narrow.

[Amon Amarth]

Tutor -> Tutor is way too durdly IMHO and they can't get Coffers or Urborg, basically. That's pretty much why I don't run them.

[Hunding Gjornersen]

Grim Monolith seems like a strict upgrade over Basalt Monolith. Even if it isn't, for some reason I'm not seeing, why not play both?

[Davran]

Grim Monolith seems like a strict upgrade over Basalt Monolith. Even if it isn't, for some reason I'm not seeing, why not play both?

Basalt Monolith works favorably with Rings of Brighthearth to produce "infinite" colorless mana. Grim Monolith doesn't accomplish the same thing, so I suspect that's why it isn't here.