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Thread: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

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    [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Whenever a new set is released a handful of writers do a set review, and we’re throwing our hat into the ring now too. We’re not going to review every card in the set here, because that would be a waste of everyone’s time. What we will do is touch on the things that we think are remotely playable in the Eternal formats, and try to figure out a home for these cards in either new or existing decks. This will be a new feature here at Eternal Central, so buckle up your seat belts and join us for the ride as we review New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4 (bonus)!

    http://www.eternal-central.com/?p=1477

    Do you think we missed anything? Please let us know in the comments section below or in the forums. Thanks for checking in, and keep it tuned to EC for more Legacy and Vintage articles!
    Find me on Twitter at @JMJACO and @EternalCentral. If you have an interest in Vintage Eldrazi, check out my book Eldrazi Meditations.

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    I think your absolute dismissal of Beast Within is moronic. It's a solid sideboard card, at the very least, and could see maindeck play.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Quote Originally Posted by bakofried View Post
    I think your absolute dismissal of Beast Within is moronic. It's a solid sideboard card, at the very least, and could see maindeck play.
    Moronic is maybe a bit harsh, but I definitely think it is playable in Oath of Druids, no doubt.
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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    I got distracted reading the Type 4 reviews- do people play that with multiple decks now? It used to be one big stack as far as I can recall- but Beast Within is pretty bad. What it comes down to is that any deck with big enough creatures that a 3/3 is irrelevant in combat runs too few creatures to reliably resolve and keep one of those fatties.

    It has some vague possibility of seeing sideboard play in Elves, but that's about it, and I don't think Elves really wants the effect that much. The only permanent that gives Elves fits against which Beast Within isn't way worse than Krosan Grip would be Lavamancer.
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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    I was a bit harsh, but it has potential, and that shouldn't be dismissed. And in Elves of the non-wish variety, it gives you an out to Peacekeeper as well as Humility - giving you outs to creature-based hate pieces as well as non-creature based hate pieces.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Not too bad of a review in terms of Legacy, but it is painfully obvious that you are not a Vintage player. Two of the most exciting cards for Vintage (Phyrexian Metamorph and Praetor's Grasp) are not even mentioned.

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Quote Originally Posted by B.C. View Post
    Not too bad of a review in terms of Legacy, but it is painfully obvious that you are not a Vintage player. Two of the most exciting cards for Vintage (Phyrexian Metamorph and Praetor's Grasp) are not even mentioned.
    +1 and I'd add Beast Within to that short list as well. It WILL be abused in Oath. Kill your Jace? Have a 3/3. Trigger Oath with no Orchard.

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Quote Originally Posted by section on Torpor Orb
    ...also to shut down your opponent’s bonus effects (Goblin Ringleader, Merrow Reejerey [emphasis added], Trinket Mage, Goblin Matron, Sword of the Meek, Vendilion Clique, Sky Hussar, etc.).
    Torpor Orb doesn't stop Reejerey; it triggers on casting, not entering the battlefield. It does stop Silvergill though.

    [/very slight nitpick]
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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Quote Originally Posted by B.C. View Post
    Not too bad of a review in terms of Legacy, but it is painfully obvious that you are not a Vintage player. Two of the most exciting cards for Vintage (Phyrexian Metamorph and Praetor's Grasp) are not even mentioned.
    I'm not a Vintage player? That's funny, but I think you should do a little research. ;)

    What makes you think Praetor's Grasp will be remotely playable in Vintage, when cards with similar functions are not? The card is terrible against Oath, Workshops, and Dredge, and mediocre against Gush Tendrils and Key-Vault decks. There's a reason no one plays Thada Adel as well. Because it's garbage. Regarding Phyrexian Metamorph, are you suspecting Workshops will play it when it's costing them 4-5 mana through their Spheres to do so? A few people play Sculpting Steel, but honestly that card sucks hard in Stax and Shop Aggro, and this is slightly better but still pretty marginal. I could have mentioned it (and probably should have), but I just don't think it is any good.

    Quote Originally Posted by bakofried View Post
    I think your absolute dismissal of Beast Within is moronic. It's a solid sideboard card, at the very least, and could see maindeck play.
    What is it going to see maindeck play in? What deck actually wants this card that makes it playable? Everyone wants to toss around cards like they're playable without giving a rhyme or reason as to what specific reason you would play the card. If you're going to try to cite Humility then please be serious and realize that Krosan Grip is about a million times better at dealing with Humility, since it's basically uncounterable.

    Quote Originally Posted by voltron00x View Post
    Moronic is maybe a bit harsh, but I definitely think it is playable in Oath of Druids, no doubt.
    Quote Originally Posted by keys View Post
    +1 and I'd add Beast Within to that short list as well. It WILL be abused in Oath. Kill your Jace? Have a 3/3. Trigger Oath with no Orchard.
    Matt and Brian, what are you trying to Beast From Within that you actually want to spend 3 mana to kill, or are worried about? Whenever I play Oath my only real concern is finding and resolving Oath. If you're playing it against a Workshop deck more likely than not you're paying anywhere from 4-6 mana to cast it. It's bad against Dredge, and average against everything else. About 95% of the time I would much rather just have Gifts Ungiven in Oath, or another copy of Jace, the Mind Sculptor. If you just want to trigger Oath faster play Crop Rotation. It's much faster and better against Wasteland decks.
    Find me on Twitter at @JMJACO and @EternalCentral. If you have an interest in Vintage Eldrazi, check out my book Eldrazi Meditations.

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Quote Originally Posted by dyzzy View Post
    Torpor Orb doesn't stop Reejerey; it triggers on casting, not entering the battlefield. It does stop Silvergill though.

    [/very slight nitpick]
    Noted, and changed! Thanks for the heads up.
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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Quote Originally Posted by JACO View Post
    There's a reason no one plays Thada Adel as well.
    You need to connect AND she's limited to artifacts and until EoT.

    While this is a Grim Tutor for their broken shit. Yawgwin, Timewalk, Recall, you name it.

  12. #12

    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Quote Originally Posted by JACO View Post
    I'm not a Vintage player? That's funny, but I think you should do a little research. ;)

    What makes you think Praetor's Grasp will be remotely playable in Vintage, when cards with similar functions are not? The card is terrible against Oath, Workshops, and Dredge, and mediocre against Gush Tendrils and Key-Vault decks. There's a reason no one plays Thada Adel as well. Because it's garbage. Regarding Phyrexian Metamorph, are you suspecting Workshops will play it when it's costing them 4-5 mana through their Spheres to do so? A few people play Sculpting Steel, but honestly that card sucks hard in Stax and Shop Aggro, and this is slightly better but still pretty marginal. I could have mentioned it (and probably should have), but I just don't think it is any good.

    What is it going to see maindeck play in? What deck actually wants this card that makes it playable? Everyone wants to toss around cards like they're playable without giving a rhyme or reason as to what specific reason you would play the card. If you're going to try to cite Humility then please be serious and realize that Krosan Grip is about a million times better at dealing with Humility, since it's basically uncounterable.



    Matt and Brian, what are you trying to Beast From Within that you actually want to spend 3 mana to kill, or are worried about? Whenever I play Oath my only real concern is finding and resolving Oath. If you're playing it against a Workshop deck more likely than not you're paying anywhere from 4-6 mana to cast it. It's bad against Dredge, and average against everything else. About 95% of the time I would much rather just have Gifts Ungiven in Oath, or another copy of Jace, the Mind Sculptor. If you just want to trigger Oath faster play Crop Rotation. It's much faster and better against Wasteland decks.
    Absolutely disagree on both counts.

    First of all, Praetor's Grip is great against, Gush, Oath, Tentril, and Tezz, you grab Recall, you grab Will, you grab Tinker, whatever you grab, they LOSE. For 1BB, you remove a bomb while gaining a bomb. It's mediocre against Shop, but you can grab accel and give yourself a better board position. Sure, it's terrible against Dredge, but seriously, who the hell judges playability of a maindeck card for its utility against Dredge?

    In terms of Phyrexian Metamorph, it's streets ahead of sculpting steel, which, doesn't suck like you claim. Let's first look at cost, Phyrexian Metamorph dodges Spheres way better than most other things in Stax, including sculpting steel. It dodges Thorn, which Steel does not. It also dodges Lodestone. Thus, it pretty much only gets hit by Sphere itself. Additionally, it has way more utility than Steel. The fact that it copies creatures means that Workshop now has a very good out against Oath, they've got Steelwind out? You got a Steelwind. They've got Iona out? Iona is now dead.

    Saying that these two cards unplayable either means you know nothing about Vintage (like the other guy said), or that your knowledge of vintage is restricted to the deck you play.

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Quote Originally Posted by JACO View Post
    I'm not a Vintage player? That's funny, but I think you should do a little research. ;)
    No, I was just kidding. I know you're a Vintage player. I guess I forgot my smiley emoticon.

    Anyway, I still disagree with you leaving them off the list. In particular, I'm very excited for Phyrexian Metamorph. I'm currently running it as a 4-of in Stax.

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Thanks for ignoring part of my comment. It will see play in Elf sideboards because it deals with two fairly common lock pieces: Humility and Peacekeeper. The beauty of it is that hey, it does both in one card. On top of that, Elves can ignore the 3/3 because they've made an army worthy of Belcher or have Cthulhu hunting you down. Or Progenitus. Really, point is, it's really good in G/x decks as a utility piece. It's not creature removal in terms of combat, that much is understood. But it kills tech creatures that end games without ever entering the red zone.
    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    The Reserved List is a) not legally binding, b) antiquated, c) broken, and d) preventative of maximum game enjoyment. Wizards will remove as many cards from that list as possible to increase the fun of their game. Using market research, they can find a balance between printing enough cards to lower a price from $40 to $15-$20, and not utterly ruining their value. This will be both an economically feasible AND sensible move.
    -ktkenshinx-

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    As a Type 4 connoisseur, I think you've overlooked some NPH cards.

    Urabask, the Hidden, Chancellor of the Dross, Soul Conduit, and Batterskull should at least be recognized. Phyrexian Metamorph is strictly superior to Clone and is definitely playable because of the artifact copy. Even Phyrexian Obliterator deserves mention. While it's clearly not fantastic, it's an insane blocker in a format with limited permanents anyway.

    Thought I'd give those cards some respect.

    So much win for the Type 4 love! Thanks

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    Quote Originally Posted by alphacat View Post
    Absolutely disagree on both counts.

    First of all, Praetor's Grip is great against, Gush, Oath, Tentril, and Tezz, you grab Recall, you grab Will, you grab Tinker, whatever you grab, they LOSE. For 1BB, you remove a bomb while gaining a bomb. It's mediocre against Shop, but you can grab accel and give yourself a better board position. Sure, it's terrible against Dredge, but seriously, who the hell judges playability of a maindeck card for its utility against Dredge?

    In terms of Phyrexian Metamorph, it's streets ahead of sculpting steel, which, doesn't suck like you claim. Let's first look at cost, Phyrexian Metamorph dodges Spheres way better than most other things in Stax, including sculpting steel. It dodges Thorn, which Steel does not. It also dodges Lodestone. Thus, it pretty much only gets hit by Sphere itself. Additionally, it has way more utility than Steel. The fact that it copies creatures means that Workshop now has a very good out against Oath, they've got Steelwind out? You got a Steelwind. They've got Iona out? Iona is now dead.

    Saying that these two cards unplayable either means you know nothing about Vintage (like the other guy said), or that your knowledge of vintage is restricted to the deck you play.
    Alpha, thanks for your response. I have the cards to play everything and will play anything that I think it good in a tournament field on that given day, so my lens isn't colored.

    Just like Beast Within, Praetor's Grip is no doubt cool, but I just don't think it's playable enough that it would justify inclusion over other (better) cards. What deck are you going to play it in? What are you going to cut from Oath, Gush, BUG Fish, or TPS style decks to fit a conditional card like Praetor's Grip in? Are you going to cut your own bombs? No. Are you going to cut Demonic, Vamp, Mystical, Merchant Scroll? No. Are you going to cut Force or other disruption (Duress or Thoughtseize)? No. So what exactly are you cutting from already very tight lists to fit this in?

    Sculpting Steel does suck given the other options, but on Phyrexian Metamorph I can dig your point on the out to Oath in addition to the normal mediocre utility of Sculpting Steel. What are you (and BC?) cutting, or what is the list you're planning on playing that would run Metamorph? You're on the road to convincing me and a change in the article. ;)
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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    My current list:

    9 Artifact Mana
    4 Shops
    4 Waste
    1 Strip
    1 Academy
    4 B-Ring
    3 Mountain
    4 Bazaar

    4 Welder
    4 Lodestone
    4 Phyrexian Metamorph

    3 Smokestack
    3 Sphere of Resistance
    4 Tangle Wire
    3 Crucible
    4 Chalice
    1 Trinisphere

    Phyrexian Metamorph is awesome. I most often use it to copy Tangle Wire, Lodestone, or Sphere, but it can also copy Tinker robots, Oath creatures, Fish Monsters, etc. Very good card.

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    None of your preview links work for the new cards, making this a pretty useless article for those of us who haven't memorized the set spoiler.

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    Re: [Article] New Phyrexia in Legacy, Vintage, and Type 4

    BC, thanks for replying. I've tested this a bit and found that I think it's pretty good because it kind of replaces the functionality of Duplicant and Sculpting Steel at the same time. Updated the article with changes to that, and also gave a little more in depth analysis of Beast Within (which is still think is mediocre, but mentioned more uses for it and other people can make up their minds). Thanks all!
    Find me on Twitter at @JMJACO and @EternalCentral. If you have an interest in Vintage Eldrazi, check out my book Eldrazi Meditations.

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