SCG Article - Reanimator draws 7!

[GGoober]

How wrong/correct do you think this article is?

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...In_Legacy.html

I mainly question his deep desires to run Jin-Gitaxias

Casting Cost: 8

Oracle Text: Flash
At the beginning of your end step, draw seven cards.
Each opponent's maximum hand size is reduced by seven.
5/4

He discusses the cons on other 'standard' reanimator targets, point taken. He discusses the cons on Jin-Gitaxias (5/4 body that loses in combat, and prone to removal), point taken. He discusses the benefits of Jin-Gitaxias, which sadly are all benefits that only apply when he's in play. Uhm, if reanimator cheats a creature in play, you should be winning, but I guess drawing 7 cards is more powerful than having removal-resistance (note if you StP Jin-Gitaxias before reanimator's EOT, he does not draw 7 cards).

This is my opinion on the article, feel free to discuss!

[CorpT]

Isn't Platinum Emperion + Mental Misttep / Force of Will / Fetchlands a little awkward?

[wcm8]

I don't really like him very much, certainly not enough to run 4. I feel like if you have the luxury to choose your target via entomb, you want to pick the best target for job at hand, which is to kill the opponent as quickly as possible before they can find an answer. Running this guy out as your first option seems risky -- Iona, Inkwell, or even Stormtide end the game quickly and Relatively more safely. I think Jin may function better as a follow up target after you've already started applying pressure with your first fatty.

Testing needs to be done of course. I am actually thinking that the white praetor would make a great sideboard target against tribal decks.

[Koby]

I fail to see how running a deck that relies on 1cc spells to resolve (Entomb, Reanimate, Careful Study, Personal Tutor) will ever become effective with Mental Misstep in the format.

I don't see this archetype succeeding very well.

[wcm8]

I fail to see how running a deck that relies on 1cc spells to resolve (Entomb, Reanimate, Careful Study, Personal Tutor) will ever become effective with Mental Misstep in the format.

I don't see this archetype succeeding very well.

Misstep is a fantastic card, but you are overstating its strength against reanimator. Reanimator runs Discard and counter magic to make sure its combo lands. It's not like goblins where it is so hugely important to establish a key 1-drop on turn 1. If I am playing against an unknown opponent and my opening hand consists of Reanimate, entomb, and duress, duress is going to be my first turn play -- no need to get greedy. Also, I'm betting that misstep will find it's way into Reanimator decks.

Legacy players will continue to run minimal graveyard hate, and even if that changes Reanimator only needs to resolve Show and Tell in the post-board games. It's not as powerful as it used to be, but still a viable strategy for the right metagame.

It's a combo deck that was hurt by the loss of Mystical Tutor, but it's no less playable just becaus of Misstep.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I fail to see how running a deck that relies on 1cc spells to resolve (Entomb, Reanimate, Careful Study, Personal Tutor) will ever become effective with Mental Misstep in the format.

I don't see this archetype succeeding very well.

ZoMG I failz to c how a dec tHat c@sts spellz iz posibl with FoW in tha form@!

Seriously, I'm sick and fucking tired of the mental misstep hysteria. The card is good. It is NOT going to make playing decks that rely on 1 cc spells impossible.

[Koby]

Misstep is a fantastic card, but you are overstating its strength against reanimator. Reanimator runs Discard and counter magic to make sure its combo lands. It's not like goblins where it is so hugely important to establish a key 1-drop on turn 1. If I am playing against an unknown opponent and my opening hand consists of Reanimate, entomb, and duress, duress is going to be my first turn play -- no need to get greedy. Also, I'm betting that misstep will find it's way into Reanimator decks.

Legacy players will continue to run minimal graveyard hate, and even if that changes Reanimator only needs to resolve Show and Tell in the post-board games. It's not as powerful as it used to be, but still a viable strategy for the right metagame.

It's a combo deck that was hurt by the loss of Mystical Tutor, but it's no less playable just becaus of Misstep.

For the record, I don't anticipate non-blue MM decks to beat this. I am referring to blue decks with MM. You know, like ones that normally already run counterspells. Zoo with MM is an abortion of ideas.

EDIT: Also, you realize almost every deck with access to WG already runs Karakas? Guess which card type Jin-Gixatias has?

[wcm8]

I'm not sure where Jin Gitaxis is so much better as a first reanimation target than the other options..

Against most blue control decks, I want Inkwell.
Combo? Iona, generally.
Tribal/aggro/dredge? Stormtide or Blazing Archon. -- or now, perhaps the new white Praetor
Burn/Sligh? Empyrial archangel, Platinum Emperion, maybe Sphinx of Steel Wind.

Jin Gitaxis seems like a fantastic second target, but then so is just about any other fatty. Actually, an awesome second target would be Painter's Servant after you've already gotten Iona on the field. The second fatty isn't as important, because ideally your first one should be ending the game in three turns.

[GGoober]

For the record, I don't anticipate non-blue MM decks to beat this. I am referring to blue decks with MM. You know, like ones that normally already run counterspells. Zoo with MM is an abortion of ideas.

EDIT: Also, you realize almost every deck with access to WG already runs Karakas? Guess which card type Jin-Gixatias has?

Creature - Get bounced by Karakas all day and dies to StP/GFTT/Path otherwise draw 7 and maybe win otherwise win-more.

EDIT: I guess it also pitches to FoW.

[bakofried]

It's not that you won't be able to fight MM with Reanimator, it will just be an added obstacle. And, seeing as how Reanimator is hardly a force in the meta, I wouldn't be too worried about it.

Also, Goblins is built to deal with losing that one drop (whichever it may be). When I play Lackey, I expect it to be countered or removed or have something done about it, and the same applies to Vial.

[Nessaja]

Fairly sure he's just making sure that more people buy the card from SGC. There's way too many holes in his plan even when everything goes right it's not better then Sphinx against aggro.

MM in Reanimator, perhaps a no-brainer, Jin-Blabla.. I don't see it.

[Crysthorn]

Casting Cost: 8

No, Jin-Gitaxias is 8UU, so the casting cost is actually 10 and he eats half your life when being reanimated.

[Jeff Kruchkow]

His point is less that it is the best target in any situation, and more-so that he is always going to be useful. Assuming you aren't going to run 4-of every different creature, it means that you NEED Entomb to find the right fatty. What Jin does so well is being good against everything as long as he lives. Yes he is absolute jank against decks like zoo or goblins. But against those decks, a draw 7 on turn 2 plus a possible Mind Twist will probably give you the edge to win.

[NyxathidHorror]

I fail to see how running a deck that relies on 1cc spells to resolve (Entomb, Reanimate, Careful Study, Personal Tutor) will ever become effective with Mental Misstep in the format.

I don't see this archetype succeeding very well.

I'll answer with what was posted in the Reanimator thread...

@ Everyone Discussing Mental Misstep

It is common knowledge that it can counter just about half if not more of our deck. But we still have Daze, Force of Will, and the potential to run Mental Misstep ourselves. We should be able to counter around or Duress, Thoughtseize, or whatever discard you prefer MM out of their hand. I think MM has the potential to wreck this deck, but if you are a relatively intelligent player, you will be able to play through or around it just like the current free counters and graveyard hate.

[Koby]

Fact 1: Reanimator hasn't posted good results in the current metagame.
Fact 2: Reanimator's best targets are Legendary and invalidated by Karakas.
Fact 3: Mental Misstep both hits many of Reanimator's key spells.

I think it's disingenuous to assume that simply because you have Mental Misstep in the deck all the sudden it will prop the deck to being better than it was prior. Fact is that the loss of Mystical Tutor hurt this deck much more than any other aspect, including the new counterspell.

If I'm going to be playing "intelligently" and casting Duress and Thoughtseize, I'd much rather be casting Ad Nauseum than Reanimate.

[Nihil Credo]

I'm frankly amazed that CTRL-F for "Shallow Grave" or "Goryo's Vengeance" returns zero results. To me, that seems THE point in favour of even considering Jin-Gitaxias - the fact that you can keep him for just one turn and it still does 90% of its job, putting you ridiculously far ahead. (Reanimate during opponent's EOT, Mind Twists during cleanup, untap, attack if possible, EOT stack both triggers so you still draw 7.)

If you're going to use "regular" reanimation spells his attractiveness largely disappears - Iona looks better in an easy majority of the scenarios.

[NyxathidHorror]

Fact 1: Reanimator hasn't posted good results in the current metagame.
Fact 2: Reanimator's best targets are Legendary and invalidated by Karakas.
Fact 3: Mental Misstep both hits many of Reanimator's key spells.

And I have a goldfish...

I think it's ingenious to assume that simply because you have Mental Misstep in the deck all the sudden it will prop the deck to being better than it was prior. Fact is that the loss of Mystical Tutor hurt this deck much more than any other aspect, including the new counterspell.

I don't think the inclusion of MM making the deck any better was mentioned even once.

*reads again*

Nope, not even once. Quite the opposite actually; playing against it...

If I'm going to be playing "intelligently" and casting Duress and Thoughtseize, I'd much rather be casting Ad Nauseum than Reanimate.

Tendrils combo will be the deck that feels MM's true potential. I'm not nearly as concerned about facing MM in a deck that already has 12+ disruption spells.

I'm frankly amazed that CTRL-F for "Shallow Grave" or "Goryo's Vengeance" returns zero results.

Couldn't agree more. Especially for a list with a full set MD...

[practical joke]

@ Nihil, you know that even with jin-whatever-it-is in play, you lose to a resolved goyf. (which is stronger)

reanimate has a buttload of blanks in it's deck once it has a combo going on. draw 7 mostly means draw potential crap. It simply can do that.

A single goyf or stp could bring that "advantage" back to a few cards (let's say a realistic 4 cards advantage) and 4 cards aren't a lot for reanimate, since you'll still have to set up a second combo.

It might've even costed you a whopping 10 lives!

I don't like that card since it can hardly win on it's own (and yes when he dies to a goyf block you can exhume him again.....riiight and that has put you even further behind boardwise)

reanimate is based on a creature selection that win the game right on the spot. Now name a single deck that this card wins against that the current selection of creatures can't?

current selection should be:

- sphinx
- inkwell
- iona
- stormtide/blazing archon (preference call, I just think archon is slightly better)

[perm]

Reanimator is just a bad archetype in general. You use like four cards to get one creature into play. Maybe this is viable with instant speeds as nihil credo mentioned.

[arebennian]

4 Shallow Grave + 4 Goryo's Vengence + 4 Emrakul + 4 Jin + 4 Entomb + filtering +Discard + Protection.

8 decent instant speed effect targets might be worth it.