[Deck] Team Italia

[CptHaddock]

The Looting + KCommand is sexy, but do you think the deck can support 4x Reveler? I suppose redundant copies can be discarded to Looting, and its a way to offset not having Dark Confidant (the draw 3 is very good from Reveler.)

Yes 100% it can support them. I recently had a game where I had 2 of them active against a RUG Delver player The only thing you get hosed by is people running RIP/Leyline, but that is hitting the fringe playable category.

He's also not running dark confidant...

[Mr. Safety]

Sorry if I was unclear, I was presupposing that he was playing 4x Reveler because he didn't have confidant for CA. I also misinterpreted Reveler's cost (it isn't delve, like I thought) and I realized that the 2nd copy isn't bad at all, in fact it gets better in multiples if you can play your hand out, trigger prowess, and then refill.

[maharis]

Yes 100% it can support them. I recently had a game where I had 2 of them active against a RUG Delver player The only thing you get hosed by is people running RIP/Leyline, but that is hitting the fringe playable category.

He's also not running dark confidant...

Are you playing this online? I've done some very limited testing (me vs. me on tapped out) but so far I would say this deck is really solid against the Grixis variants, which makes it tempting in the online meta. Miracles seems to be approximately 0% though. Maybe just more bitterblossoms in the board...

Sorry if I was unclear, I was presupposing that he was playing 4x Reveler because he didn't have confidant for CA. I also misinterpreted Reveler's cost (it isn't delve, like I thought) and I realized that the 2nd copy isn't bad at all, in fact it gets better in multiples if you can play your hand out, trigger prowess, and then refill.

You could theoretically just replace all the revelers with Bobs but I don't think Bob is good enough right now, especially on the draw. Looting is your early game CA engine with Souls, then in the late game when you've depleted your hand from looting so much Reveler comes along and refills it. And yes when you draw Reveler 2 off Reveler 1 it's basically like cheating.

[CptHaddock]

Are you playing this online? I've done some very limited testing (me vs. me on tapped out) but so far I would say this deck is really solid against the Grixis variants, which makes it tempting in the online meta. Miracles seems to be approximately 0% though. Maybe just more bitterblossoms in the board...

Yeah mostly in the tournament practice room. I wanted to flesh out the deck a little more before I started playing in leagues. I haven't played against miracles but I imagine that cards like BB or Walkers are your best bet, that matchup does seem really piss poor since the plan of attack is to spew a bunch of stuff onto the board.

My only big problem so far has been cards like Goyf and Angler, sometimes you just need to kill 1 to attack through them so i'll be adding a terminate or 2 back into the deck.

Sorry if I was unclear, I was presupposing that he was playing 4x Reveler because he didn't have confidant for CA. I also misinterpreted Reveler's cost (it isn't delve, like I thought) and I realized that the 2nd copy isn't bad at all, in fact it gets better in multiples if you can play your hand out, trigger prowess, and then refill.

My bad, I misread what you were saying. The "gimmick" to this deck is that all your CA is basically playing out your threats and refilling with reveler so a lot of your CA is virtual rather than physical.

[maharis]

Yeah mostly in the tournament practice room. I wanted to flesh out the deck a little more before I started playing in leagues. I haven't played against miracles but I imagine that cards like BB or Walkers are your best bet, that matchup does seem really piss poor since the plan of attack is to spew a bunch of stuff onto the board.

My only big problem so far has been cards like Goyf and Angler, sometimes you just need to kill 1 to attack through them so i'll be adding a terminate or 2 back into the deck.

Are you still on 20 lands? With 4 Deathrite I think we can afford to only run 18. It's like a cantrip that helps you hit your land drop, and a way to leverage a mana advantage a la Wasteland. Basically we want to cheat on mana like the blue players :)

I am playing edicts for value vs. TNN/Marit Lage/Griselbrand instead of Terminate or Dreadbore, but one of the targeted spells may be correct. I don't find that big guys that hard to deal with because the edicts are usually good since we have 8 pieces of point discard to pick off Delver/DRS and then hit TNN/Goyf/Angler later. And we have so many chump blockers that we can hold the non-TNN guys off for a while.

It's only a real problem if their Young Pyromancer lives to give them huge value, but I think that can be cleaned up with ZP out of the board or by Thoughtseizing it in game 1.

[CptHaddock]

Are you still on 20 lands? With 4 Deathrite I think we can afford to only run 18. It's like a cantrip that helps you hit your land drop, and a way to leverage a mana advantage a la Wasteland. Basically we want to cheat on mana like the blue players :)

I am playing edicts for value vs. TNN/Marit Lage/Griselbrand instead of Terminate or Dreadbore, but one of the targeted spells may be correct. I don't find that big guys that hard to deal with because the edicts are usually good since we have 8 pieces of point discard to pick off Delver/DRS and then hit TNN/Goyf/Angler later. And we have so many chump blockers that we can hold the non-TNN guys off for a while.

It's only a real problem if their Young Pyromancer lives to give them huge value, but I think that can be cleaned up with ZP out of the board or by Thoughtseizing it in game 1.

I'm actually on 21, with 4 DRS that's essentially 22 lands. I was having a lot of problems with 20 lands where I was trying to operate off a single land and I couldn't. I like edict but I also like having Liliana to pressure all of the control decks in the format.

Re: 4 revelers being too many, you can never have too many revelers.

[maharis]

I played a few matches online including a 2-0 win vs Miracles. I’m playing 2 sulfuric vortex in my board for the MU and it was crushing.

I would’ve beaten Czech Pile as well but Kess is bugged and is letting its controller cast spells on both turns which is super busted. So my league was free and I got some good insight.


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[Arcanis001]

So this was Gerry's list for the pro tour.

1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Faithless Looting
1 Dreadbore
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
1 Terminate
1 Manamorphose
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Blood Moon
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats


2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Molten Rain
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Wear // Tear
1 Fulminator Mage

If we want to port it over to legacy, how does something like this look?

1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Faithless Looting
1 Dreadbore/Vindicate
2 Collective Brutality
3 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Blood Moon
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
2 Plateau
1 Bayou
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats

Hi,
in your group we where also testing after the pro tour and come up with 2 diff versions


Mandaru Aggro Grind

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/08-02...du-pyromancer/

this version is more agressiv and its common to go Bolt Reveler into burn you for 3-5 more get something back


Edit: SB here is still in work

Mandaru Midrange Grind

This version grinds even better with the costs of losing some easy burn out wins

The SB with fights
1. Unfair aka Combo Decks
2. TNN with Euqipments


// 60 Maindeck
// 11 Creature
3 Bedlam Reveler
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Deathrite Shaman

// 2 Enchantment
2 Hidden Stockpile

// 8 Instant
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push

// 21 Land
2 Arid Mesa
3 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
1 Plateau
1 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Wasteland
1 Bayou

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Liliana, the Last Hope

// 16 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
2 Gitaxian Probe
3 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize


// 15 Sideboard
// 5 Artifact
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Silent Gravestone

// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist

// 5 Enchantment
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Contamination
SB: 1 Seal of Cleansing
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Rule of Law

// 4 Instant
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution


Edit: SB still under work

With both version we have great results in our ~80 matches so far overall
Basicly we are good/ok vs all fair decks and have esp without the tutor sb
a really hard time vs 2 card combos

D&T slight pos - neutral // positiv
g1 fight the euquipments & Mother
g2&g3 you are much better vs jitte & sofi (null rod and co) and you can deal better with Mother

Czech Pile very positiv // positiv
g1 you just have the way better grindy game
g2&g3 see g1 but don´t overextend -> marsh casualties

Miracle positiv // slight positiv-neutral
g1 you are better in grinding don´t overextend -> Terminus
vs counterbalance try to check before play the key spells
g2&g3 now they can attack your grave but we have an auto win with an
resolved Contamination
i try to play it 1:1 until i can clear the way with discard to play Contamination
they are not used to stuff like this with there 12+ basics
try to fetch out an Swamp to don´t lose to Blood Moon

Delver Decks are also positiv - neutral
try to play arround daze with your removel
to don´t lose to early flip delvers and fetch out some basics

Eldrazi Stompy
its a test/coin flip sometimes and depends super havey on the start
when we can stop them and are able to go to the longer game we are likley to win

Show and Tell
before going to the Tutor SB a bad matchup because they just have time vs us
and a sneak attack on the field is normally gg because the can take theire time to find
the beater now with limited tests better with tutor hate
you still lose to sick draws t1-t2

ANT/TNT
before Tutor SB it was hard because they could play out LED and win viva Past in Flames
now with the DRS MB and the tutor SB its way better
you still lose to sick draws t1-t2 but after these critical turns it gets way better

[Arcanis001]

I'm actually on 21, with 4 DRS that's essentially 22 lands. I was having a lot of problems with 20 lands where I was trying to operate off a single land and I couldn't. I like edict but I also like having Liliana to pressure all of the control decks in the format.

Re: 4 revelers being too many, you can never have too many revelers.

I am on exatly the same amound of lands 21 with 4 DRS and are doing fine so far

but 4 Bedlam Reveler are to many for me
I like 3 and 2 Kolaghan's Command & 2 Liliana, the Last Hope

I agree that we need this card for the grind and comming out of basicly anything but I was starring to many times at 2 Revelers in my hand
and cound´t cast them because only 2-4 mana but not enough spell in my grave -> opp DRS & co

[maharis]

I cut a reveler to play 19 land adding a third swamp. I've played two leagues and gone 2-3 in each. I just played some of the worst magic of my life in my last round though... kept making mistakes that surely cost me what I think is a good matchup (BUG delver)

I think the deck is strong enough for Legacy. Sulfuric Vortex out of the board has been especially clutch. Gonna give it a spin in paper tomorrow.

[maharis]

Well, I'm finally starting to put it together a bit... just 3-2'd a league.

W Aggro Loam
L D&T
W BUG Delver
W UR Delver
L Junk Stoneblade

Equipment has been the biggest issue as evidenced by both losses... Not sure whether I want to go for another piece of artifact removal or something like Null Rod, which also has text vs. Storm... I have the 2 Kcommand main plus a wear/tear and a pithing needle but if my opponent gets to attack with jitte or SoFi it's basically gg.

I'm actually 3-0 vs. storm with the deck so maybe null rod isn't needed. Game 1 is approx. 0% but when you board out all the creature removal and board in the additional disruption it can be pretty crushing.

[Arcanis001]

Well, I'm finally starting to put it together a bit... just 3-2'd a league.

W Aggro Loam
L D&T
W BUG Delver
W UR Delver
L Junk Stoneblade

Equipment has been the biggest issue as evidenced by both losses... Not sure whether I want to go for another piece of artifact removal or something like Null Rod, which also has text vs. Storm... I have the 2 Kcommand main plus a wear/tear and a pithing needle but if my opponent gets to attack with jitte or SoFi it's basically gg.

I'm actually 3-0 vs. storm with the deck so maybe null rod isn't needed. Game 1 is approx. 0% but when you board out all the creature removal and board in the additional disruption it can be pretty crushing.

Nice

I running so far SB (would not bring in O-Ring normally just vs Equipment)

2 Zealous Persecution
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Null Rod

and MB

2 Kolaghan's Command


and have 0 problems vs Equipments

[maharis]

Went 2-0 last night (rd 1 bye) including some camera time which starts here. I won game 1 of the match by windmilling Moon early, this picks up in game 2. Game 3 is tense.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/229818418?t=7616s


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[Arcanis001]

Anybody still plays Mandaru Midrange Grind and have some new results?

I am so far quite happy with the MB but still not 100% happy with the Wish SB

[Amazingxkcd]

out of curiosity, anyone still developing this deck? Id like to take a break from czech pile for a bit

[Mr. Safety]

I was developing a tokens-heavy version for a while but I can't seem to trade into a Badlands or Plateau (and I don't have the cash for them ATM.) I still want to jam Hidden Stockpile, Young Pyromancer, and Lingering Souls.

[ahg113]

I've been clowning around on cockatrice with this. Don't have my deck list handy at the moment, but from similar builds as previously posted in this thread, dropped the SDT :_( and added Smuggler's Copter. Have 6 token makers, 2 each Monk, Pyro, L.Souls, 3 Zealous persecution in deck.

I enjoy playing it, interactive against most decks, but very draw dependent and can just hit rough patches and lose to itself, or blow someone out. The most unique comment was someone askin me if I was playing a deck full of sideboard cards.

Will post current list later.

[Krarkeon]

Would you guys consider running recruiter of the guard or imperial recruiter in this deck? A simple 2-for-1 in a pretty grindy deck and it's a tutor. Seems solid.

[ahg113]

My current list, still missing an omph or better card filtration. A Mirri's Guile or Slyvan Library would be nice... or even better- SDT.

// Legacy - Team Italia

// Trying, so sad Top got banned...
// Surgical is just there right now

// 60 Maindeck
// 3 Artifact
3 Smuggler's Copter

// 13 Creature
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
2 Monastery Mentor
2 Young Pyromancer
1 Tymaret, the Murder King
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation

// 11 Instant
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Zealous Persecution
2 Surgical Extraction

// 22 Land
3 Badlands
3 Scrubland
1 Bayou
1 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
2 Swamp

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Liliana of the Veil

// 9 Sorcery
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Thoughtseize
2 Lingering Souls


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
SB: 1 Silent Gravestone
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Pithing Needle

// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Butcher of the Horde

// 3 Enchantment
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring

// 7 Instant
SB: 2 Rakdos Charm
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 3 Pyroblast

[ahg113]

Would you guys consider running recruiter of the guard or imperial recruiter in this deck? A simple 2-for-1 in a pretty grindy deck and it's a tutor. Seems solid.

Not really sure the body is worth it unless tutoring for a SFM to get an equipment. Tutoring is always nice, but what are you grabbing that's gonna swing the game in your favor? And what are you going to do with a 1/1 body after it's cast?