[Deck] Team Italia

[ahg113]

Mardu Charm RWB
Instant [Uncommon]

Choose one --

Mardu Charm deals 4 damage to target creature.
Put two 1/1 white warrior creature tokens onto battlefield. They gain first strike until end of turn.
Target opponent reveals his or her hand. You choose a noncreature, nonland card from it. That player discards that card.


This does a lot of interesting stuff that you can't really evaluate in a vaccuum. Let's say, for example, you want to be able to Revoke Liliana and play Rest in Peace, diminishing the value of Souls. This card gives you removal, hand disruption, and extra bodies at the end of their turn (to untap, attach equipment, and bash with).

4 damage to a creature can kill some Goyfs, which is nice; it also of course hits all the other creatures that you can target (delver, SFM, most stuff in D&T, infect dudes).

The instant speed duress is something I really like against combo decks. Turn 1, seize them. Turn 2, play some sort of hatebear if you have it, but maybe the best you can do is Bob/SFM. Turn 3 you pass the turn, let them draw, and take their most important card. You can play it on the stack when they Brainstorm or Ponder.

Ultimately 3 CMC in 3 colors is going to be a real test for the playability of the card, but all 3 abilities do something relevant. Instant speed cards and effects are very strong in Legacy.

This doesn't make the cut in legacy. 3 is simply too much, of any mixture. Lingering souls is clearly better, Lightning Bolt/STP is clearly better, TS > Duress > Dega Charm.

Damage mode
It's cool what they're trying to do, but limiting it to creatures is weak sauce. Even if it was just creatures or planeswalkers, it should've been creatures or players for the damage portion.

Token mode
Two tokens, without evasion, and a one turn first strike bonus. Chump blockers need to pack a bit more punch to typically be any good. If going for the win, I'm not sure of the token Dega deck that would prefer two 1/1 dorks instead 4 1/1 flyers.

Discard mode
The best part of discard is the early game application to disrupt. Waiting till t3, or t2 if you have an active DRS, just seems too slow. Congrats, this and the Piracy and Funeral Charm are now instant speed discard spells. So it might have a bit more late-game play than IoK. But it'll feel too little, too late, more often than not.

Add to that, you're gonna pass doing anything your turn, in order to keep up three mana to hopefully goink the opponent on their turn to maximize it being an instant spell, and that's sad bear. All the other spells are quicker, or blatantly better than this charm. The utility of these charms vs. the RtR charms is night and day. The RtR charms are all a mana cheaper, and still get three modal options.

Cheers,
whomp whomp

[RPGbudgie]

I ran my young pyromancer list from a couple pages back again last night. I made room for 2 git probes going down to 3 souls and 3 thought seizes.

The list felt very powerful again.

Round 1 Reanimator 2-0

Game 1 he landed an early tidespout. I double bolted it but he got it back. I landed a hardcast batterskull and got a swing in that kept me alive until I could dig for lingering souls to win. Game 2 he forced an early cage. I landed a bob and started swinging. Eventually he got an inkwell leviathin down but I played a meekstone I'd been holding the next turn and won with souls going overtop.

Round 2 Storm 2-1

I hit him hard with discard all three games. Game 2 he eked out a victory with past in flames. Game three I had ethersworn canonist to back up my discard.

Round 3 Storm 0-2

I got wrecked. Game 2 I had thoughtseize, double cabal therapy and surgical extraction and he still killed me. It was rough. Hatebears are just so much better than discard since PiF was printed. I'm going up to 2 ethersworn in the board and possibly a revoker too.

Round 4 Junk 2-1

Game 1 I took his batterskull with therapy and then hit his only other threat. The game ended shortly thereafter. Game 2 I made some mistakes and the game went at least 45 minutes, this was the last round so we just played it out and he eventually got there with a stoneforge equipped with sofi. We both had tops going all game long drawing bomb after bomb. Game 3 I opened with 3 land, deathrite, sfm, bob, young pyro. I fetched batterskull turn 2 to force the plow on my sfm and then let bob and pyro take it home.

This list is a ton of fun to play, I highly recommend it. I'm thinking of cutting wasteland so that I can put abrupt decay in the board over wear//tear. It just hasn't been too relevant in most of my games.

[s94787j]

So just joining this thread I currently play deadguy ale so splashing red seems like a solid choice. its seems to me that it give some nice flexibility.

[Esper3k]

RIP turns off your Lavamancers, Deathrites, and makes Souls shitty. I mean, don't get me wrong, I love RIP even in a deck with DRS and Souls, but Cage is a fine card vs most GY based decks (though it's useless vs PFire and Loam) as well as being fairly awesome against Elves.

Sure, but against the yard decks you really need it against, it is simply amazing. Plus, it has extra utility vs the Tarmogoyf decks.

I was thinking maybe a 1/1 split between RIP and Grafdigger's using an ETutor board.

[s94787j]

Just a thought has anyone tried Boros charm?

[sdematt]

I haven't, but I'm not sure what slot it tries to fill. We've got plenty of removal, and we're not really pressuring super hard with Burn.

I really miss having some fat in the form of Tarmogoyf. Maybe I'll run some Brimaz or something and give them a run.

-Matt

[s94787j]

I was thinking more for the double strike and indestructibility.

[s94787j]

Ya I might go to a second Brimaz

[Whippoorwill]

After listening to the Everyday Eternal Podcast last week, I decided that I wanted to play Dega and ended up with the following list.

1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Scrubland
3 Badlands
1 Plateau
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa

2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Spirit of the Labirynth
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Mirran Crusader

3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull

2 Liliana of the Veil

Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Wear//Tear
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Slaughter Games
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Grafdigger's Cage

It was mostly built using the recent lists and taking into account the decks I saw last week for our weekly event - Death & Taxes, Reanimator, Burn, UR Niv-Magus Elemental, ANT, BUG Explorer Pod. I decided against Wastelands due to the amount of basics in my meta. Instead I opted for 2 Caverns, another Fetch and a Karakas. Before I came to this list I was running fewer lands than the usual 22 everyone seems to be running but I had Chrome Mox in their place. I also had Prophetic Flamespeaker in the list since it's a Human and works well with Cavern and the equipment. I may still explore that option.

Sadly, only 4 people showed up so we couldn't run a sanctioned tournament. But we all wanted to play so we ended up doing a 2 round tournament and the store owner put up prizes (despite no entry fee). The 4 decks that showed up were UR Niv-Magus, ANT, Burn & Dega (me).

Round 1 vs. UR Niv Magus
Game 1: Nothing too special, removal for all his threats was the key to this one.
Game 2: I kept a hand I know I shouldn't have (5 lands, Crusader, StP) and got punished for it when he beats me down with a large Kiln Fiend.
Game 3: He keeps a bad hand and mine is solid. Turn 3 Crusader. Turn 4, Jitte + equip and swing for 4 + 4 counters on Jitte. Turn 5 swing for lethal.

1-0; 2-1

Round 2 vs Burn.

Burn ended up beating ANT so now I get to deal with the damn Eidolon.

Game 1: I punted a couple times with my plays including playing a Crusader when he had an active Lavamancer. Derp. Also, Eidolon is incredibly annoying.

Game 2: More Eidolon bullshit and he rips a Price of Progress when I'm at 6 with 3 non-basics in play and about to stabilize.

1-1; 2-3

Before I came to the store I had set aside Aegis of Honor as potential sideboard cards but decided against it. Same with Leyline of Sanctity. I'm going to have to add some form of hate against Burn now since there's at least 2 players that I know of that play it. I'm not sure if I want Leyline, Aegis or just CoP:Red.

[maharis]

Your list is pretty close to what I was playing for a long time, with these changes:

-3 Spirit
-2 Liliana
-1 Lavamancer

+4 Mother of Runes
+2 Phyrexian Revoker

I also ran Wastelands over Caverns, Karakas, and a fetch.

This type of build (basically Dega & Taxes) is really good against Delver decks because you have Wasteland, Thalia, and lots of cheap removal while also having late-game bombs to take away the advantage of their cantrips. It's also better than you'd think against most kinds of combo because you're attacking them on two axes (discard and hatebears) with supplemental help from Wasteland.

However, it's really bad against Miracles because they play lots of basics and you're trying to trade one-for-one while they counter everything for free. A DRS/Souls/Liliana build does better in that matchup, but I feel it's inferior in most other matchups to Jund or the other BW blade decks. (worse mana than Deadguy, less beef than Junk/Jund). Sometimes Lightning Bolt is just free wins though since it kills delver and gets rid of 15% of their life total.

So if you like the Thalia builds, I would build your sideboard to shore up against Miracles first. Slaughter Games is pretty good against them, but you do want some early pressure down. I have had lots of success boarding Bitterblossom against Miracles, especially in equipment decks. I like Pithing Needle to take away Jace and/or SDT early in a way that's hard for them to get rid of other than their single Wear/Tear (this screws up our own SDT but it hurts them way more than us if we replace our SDT with Needle naming SDT).

I also love Perish out of the sideboard because it just hits so much: DRS, Goyf, Mongoose, Shardless, BBE, Elves. REB and/or Zealous Persecution are good for dealing with TNN. Also jam a couple RIPs since we don't use the graveyard and pretty much everyone else does.

Man, I want to play this deck again now.

[sdematt]

Played my usual list at my local, but lost a close game against Jund since I didn't draw lands, and a close game against Painter where I got Blood Mooned too early and could not draw into a Deathrite Shaman or a white source. Oh well.

My sideboard looks like this:

2 Zealous Persecution
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Red elemental Blast
2 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Wear/Tear
2 Duress

I may cut Duress/Chains for Perish. Freaking Tarmogoyf. It might get better with the new Delve removal spell, but we're already draining our yard so much...

-Matt

[Megadeus]

Matt, do you find you need more removal for Goyf even after the 4 STP? What about like a Deathmark or two in the board? Being a sorcery kinda sucks, but it's another 1CC piece of removal. Or instead of the delve spell, dismember?

Also, is anyone playing slaughter games in the board? It's a tad slow, but can be ramped into a turn 3 with deathrite, plus it supplemented with a thought seize or a bear of hate it generally spells doom for your opponent.

[maharis]

I've considered Terminate too in black-centered dega. Nice catch all, instant speed in case you come up against mainlands or haste creatures of some sort. Goyf is also a good reason to play crackling doom. Liliana on 2 or less and a Goyf out? Value city.

Perish is nuts though in this deck, so many blowouts.

[Megadeus]

I'm so torn on whether or not that card is good enough. If I don't end up having to sell to much stuff, I may play some Dega again. Anytime Sean talks about it I get excited to play it. I love what red brings to the sideboard

[maharis]

I'm so torn on whether or not that card is good enough. If I don't end up having to sell to much stuff, I may play some Dega again. Anytime Sean talks about it I get excited to play it. I love what red brings to the sideboard

Crackling Doom? It's close. 3 mana is tough but it does have the potential for a big blowout. Compare to Geth's Verdict. One more mana, you always get their biggest guy (Germ token?) and one more to the face that can hit PWs. Trouble is, of course, so dead vs. combo.

[s94787j]

I honestly love perish in the board it makes for great blow outs

[maharis]

There's a lot of panic about Treasure Cruise going on. Spirit of the Labyrinth is starting to sound like an attractive option over Thalia. Sucks to lose first strike, but it's a must-remove if you've got multiple Brainstorms and Treasure Cruises in your deck/hand. Frees up the ability to play Lingering Souls too.

4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Grim Lavamancer

4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Lingering Souls
1 Pyroblast/Cabal Therapy

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland
2 Plateau
2 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Badlands
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Karakas

3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Wear/Tear
2 Perish
2 Rest in Peace
1 Bitterblossom
1 Grafdigger's Cage

Doesn't seem as good against traditional combo, but maybe solid an expected field of blue tempo, Miracles, S&T, Elves.

[ahg113]

I've been a fan, and through some fooling around on the 'trice, I'm a convert to the Mom's > DRS band wagon.

Running a list almost mirroring maharis (excellent manabase) with a varying SB.

-1 Lightning Bolt
-1 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Cabal Therapy
+3 Inquisition of Kozilek

SB
-1 Pyroblast
-1 Wear//Tear
-1 Bitterblossom
-2 Rest In Peace
-1 Surgical Extraction
+2 Slaughter Games
+2 Rakdos Charm
+2 Zealous Persecution
+1 Grafdigger's Cage

It took me several moments, but maharis' sb is 14 cards... so the +/- is off by one.

Wonder how it'll do at my LGS, it's been fair to good in random games. But like all non-blue decks, seems to just get silly at times, too many lands, not enough...

[maharis]

Whoops, sorry about the SB thing haha. It was just a draft anyway. Hope you test it more and it works! Spirit seems so boss in the Treasure Cruise/Glimpse of Nature meta.

So I've been thinking about this deck a lot, and I have come to a conclusion: I don't think Bolt is where we want to be necessarily. Two or three of them is fine, but I think we really want Terminate. It's the closest we can get to abrupt decay and really helps deal with a huge problem for us, which is Tarmogoyf. Also, Monastery Swiftspear gets out of bolt range quickly and they can respond to our removal with free spells which suuuuucks.

I wrote my Junk list out and drew a line from each card to what I felt was a corresponding Dega card. I ended up with a black-centered Dega list that looks like this:

4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Thoughtseize
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sword of Fire & Ice
1 Sword of Feast & Famine
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
3 Scrubland
2 Badlands
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Bayou
1 Plateau

I'm not sure I want to sleeve this up again just yet but I feel like I will soon. I think this is a better deck than the white hatebears version, but I like playing the hatebears more. So we'll have to see how the meta shakes out with the new entrants.

[ahg113]

So I've been thinking about this deck a lot, and I have come to a conclusion: I don't think Bolt is where we want to be necessarily. Two or three of them is fine, but I think we really want Terminate. It's the closest we can get to abrupt decay and really helps deal with a huge problem for us, which is Tarmogoyf. Also, Monastery Swiftspear gets out of bolt range quickly and they can respond to our removal with free spells which suuuuucks.

Food for thought... I disagree with Terminate, I think Dreadbore makes more sense, because even though it's slower, it hits more targets (why is Karn so hard to kill....). And if we're looking for another instant, with the main threat of Goyf, maybe Swiftspear, Smother hits a lot of targets and is much easier to cast.

I'm a fan of 3 bolts. The biggest plus is the versatility of allowable targets. While they lack some shine at killing creatures situationally, being able to finish a player, or goink a PW isn't to be undervalued.