[Deck] Team Italia

[yoshencranz]

My playtest group does not have much much combo (only Elves) so my testing on that has been limited. Has anyone been having trouble with Standstill lately.

Merfolk is normally an awesome matchup, but things have changed a bit. Oddly enough Mental Misstep has not been the main culprit of this turn around. The real killer has been Standstill. You can stand to have your opponent Misstep your burn and lavamancers, however, plopping down a standstill has been devastating for me. In the 10 games we tested last night, I dont believe I won a single game where Standstill landed on the other side. The games where I did win in normal grind you out fashion is where my Thoughtseize or Inquisition did not get Misstep'd and I was able to successfully rip that Standstill out of their hand.

Also, has anyone tested Batterskull out yet? I'm going to take out the Basilisk Collar (too cute) and put in a singleton Batterskull. That may sway the matchup vs Standstill back in our favor.

My updated Main deck build. SB is still a mess.

4 Badland
3 Scrubland
1 Plateau
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
3 Arid Mesa
4 Wasteland

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Figure of Destiny
1 Ranger of Eos

1 Ajani Vengeant (testing him out...jury is still out)

2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte (still awesome vs Elves)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek

[Lord_Cyrus]

Also, has anyone tested Batterskull out yet? I'm going to take out the Basilisk Collar (too cute) and put in a singleton Batterskull. That may sway the matchup vs Standstill back in our favor.

Batterskull is awesome. So awesome it's probably unbalanced and bad for the game in the long-run. You should definitely be running it. It will strengthen the Merfolk matchup some, but honestly standstill will continue to be a problem. Unfortunately for you, there are decks that are much better positioned than Merfolk to take advantage of it. Look at Owen Turtenwald's deck from the GP for an example. Your best hope is to seize it out of their hand, and hope they don't have the MMS. But a resolved Standstill on an open field will always be a beating. If you have to pop it, wait till you have a good hand and then Bolt them on their EoT so they have to discard most of the cards drawn. It's still ugly but it's better than just cracking it by playing some creature and praying they draw 3 blanks.

[yoshencranz]

So basically, as long as Standstill is around this is a bad meta call.

[Lord_Cyrus]

I believe you just hit the nail on the head. Standstill isn't ubiquitous yet though, and it isn't always a great card. For some laughs, watch a beginner try to cast/break Standstill. Experience and raw skill can easily defeat unfavorable cards.

So basically, as long as Standstill is prevalent in top decks piloted by good players this is a bad meta call.

[yoshencranz]

I don't even want to go into the thought process of how we can beat a card like Standstill. All the ideas I came up with still just stunk.

Example

Load up on 1cc discards spells instead of Hymn to preemptively strike at the Standstills in their hand. Why this sucks?

On the draw: Mental Misstep your Inquisition, T2 play Standstill. frown.
On the Play: Mental Misstep your Inquistion. T2 Inquistion again, maybe you hit it, if so, you still spent 2 cards in your hand to get rid of Standstill and having done nothing to advance your Board Position.

[Lord_Cyrus]

You just revealed the truth. It's not that Standstill is so good. Remember people stopped playing it almost completely for over a year. It's that Standstill+Mental Misstep is an easy, 2 card combo that can blow out the opponent, both on the draw and on the play.

By the by, however, breaking Standstill with Hymn to Tourach is not a bad play at all. What are they gonna do? Force it and lose 2 cards anyway?

[swoop]

cast brainstorm so they need to discard two EOT, then cast hymn in your turn

[Lord_Cyrus]

cast brainstorm so they need to discard two EOT, then cast hymn in your turn

Difficult to accomplish in a deck that doesn't feature islands or brainstorm...

[swoop]

then its a bad deck

(had to write it) :p

[Lord_Cyrus]

then its a bad deck

(had to write it) :p

Then you are in the wrong thread, sir.

[Tiago_B.]

Then you are in the wrong thread, sir.

lol +1

I really think this deck has some potential. Batterskull is a great ideia. Most of times i would rather run StP over Lightning Bolt, so im not sure about that option.

Standstill is just one card, not every deck runs it. And i also think that 'breaking Standstill with Hymn to Tourach is not a bad play at all'.

[nedleeds]

12 small utility creatures with no evasion is poor. Basilisk collar is cute but if that's your trick then run the far more reliable shadow guildmage. I've top 4 split the local 24-40 man local with Wbr 3 times, but I build for double white, not double black. Way less red in the main, red mostly for the board. Double white gets you better creatures and way better mid game with an Elspeth or two. I'll post my list when i'm not on this wretch ed ipad.

Edit:


4 x Dark Confidant
4 x Stoneforge Mystic
3 x Mirran Crusader
3 x Shadow Guildmage
3 x Mother of Runes
3 x Soltari Priest (was also Serra Avenger one week, but then burn started showing up in force)

4 x Inquisition of Kozilek
4 x Swords to Plowshares
2 x Oblivion Ring

1 x Uwezama's Jitte
1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
1 x Basilisk Collar
1 x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

1 x Crackdown (could be a 3rd O-Ring or another Sword but it's a pet card of mine)
2 x Lightning Helix

4 x Wasteland
1 x Karakas
1 x Swamp
1 x Plains
3 x Marsh Flats
3 x Arid Mesa
2 x Bloodstained Mire
4 x Scrubland
4 x Plateau


Keep in mind this was pre-New Phyrexia / Mistep ... the board was (from memory)

4 x Red Blasts
2 x Boil
3 x Meltdown (stupid affinity)
4 x Jotun Grunt
2 x True Believer

or something to that effect, Leyline of Sanctity is also good times.

[yoshencranz]

After some more testing this past weekend vs. Standstill decks (U/W Standstill Stoneblade, Merfolk) I've come to the opinion that Hymning is the best option available. They get one card if the Hymn isn't countered. Not great, but definitely not bad. Also, Hymning made the matchup not as bad as previously imagined. That said, I still put this as underdog to Standstill decks, especially vs. an excellent opponent.

I cut the Ajani as he's not good enough to catchup or stall the board and needs the board to be in your favor to be good. I replaced Ajani with Elspeth and am nothing but smiles. The extra dude you can get from Elspeth and the Divine Transformation is pretty excellent in a deck full of 1/1s, 2/1s and 1/2s.

Batterskull is a amazing as advertised, even in this deck. We all know what an untouched Stoneforge into Batterskull leads to.

I still like the Bolts, but sometimes need STPs if I dont draw the Vindicates so the jury is still out.

[Irvindc]

Why don't use Bitterblossom? Mental Misstep is another interesting option.

1 Basilisk Collar
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Dark Confidant
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Bitterblossom
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Mental Misstep
3 Vindicate
3 Badlands
1 Plateau
3 Scrubland
3 Arid Mesa
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland

Chrome Mox, like Deadguy Ale and UWB stone blade could be the solution against Standstill.

[yoshencranz]

I was thinking about adding Misstep into the Board as well, but I dont know why we'd need it? our problem cards are cc2 cards: Tarmogoyf (if you play the lightning bolts over STP), Standstill, Tombstalker.

I'd still just rather Thoughtseize my opponent T1 and trying to rip that key card early.

[Irvindc]

I like MM because it helps me to protect my Lavamancers and Figures from my oponent MM and to protect all my 2cc from spell snare. Both situations could help me against second turn landstill in some plays. On the other hand, it saves our confidants and friends from StP, PtE Bolts...

In my opinion cutting dangerous cards ( like wild Nacalt, Grim Lavamancer, entomb, putrid imp...) in turn cero could be interesting in any deck.

Besides that, MM + hymnto's and Thoughseize is so interesting, maximicing the power of discard effects.

-Hymnto -} snare -} MM Discard the other two = Priceless

-Thoughseize -} Brainstorm -} MM = So good

-Thoughseize -} MM -} MM = Good as well

And Bitterblossom is awesome, it helps against standstill, Tombstalker, Tarmogoyfs, other bitterblossoms...

[yoshencranz]

My newest build. I dropped the Rangers b/c with Sensei's Top you end up getting to all the cards you need anyway. in place of it, I'm torn between Sword of War/Peace or Sword of Body/Mind. Both have their applications are I believe are meta calls. If you are playing vs more Bant/Tarmogoyf, then the Body/Mind is better (though still weak to STP). Of if you're up against UW Stoneblade/Ancestral Visions/Standstill, etc. then War/Peace is definitely the better call. I can even see it being awesome vs. Zoo as it blanks all their removal.

4 Marsh Flat
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Arid Mesa
3 Scrubland
4 Badland
1 Plateau
4 Wasteland

4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Mother of Runes
1 Figure of Destiny

3 Vindicate
4 Lighting Bolt
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek

2 Sensei's Diving Top
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire/Ice
1 Sword of Body/Mind
1 Umezawa's Jitte (or a sword with pro white)

1 Elspeth, Knight Errant

[peteypablo]

I've been testing italia w/ Bitterblossom as well and have been loving it.

4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant

3 Bitterblossom

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Vindicate

4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
3 Arid Mesa
4 Badlands
3 Scrubland
1 Plateau

Zoo's been a tough match-up, Path to Exile is annoying enough that I want to squeeze in some basics, but I'm not sure if it's worth losing consistency with opening hands.

[peteypablo]

I've been testing Bitterblossom as well in italia and have been loving it.

1 Basilisk Collar
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Grim Lavamancer
2 Figure of Destiny
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant

3 Bitterblossom

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
1 Gerrard's Verdict
4 Vindicate

4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
3 Arid Mesa
4 Badlands
3 Scrubland
1 Plateau

I'm a little worried about the zoo match-up, Path to exile is good enough to make me want to run basics, but I'm not sure if it's worth losing consistency with opening hands.

[Al-ucard]

What if we quit discard and add more direct damage with lightning bolt and lightning helix? This way we have better match against tribal and zoo...

20 Lands
3 Marsh Flats
3 Scrubland
3 Plateau
3 Badlands
3 Arid Mesa
2 Bloodstained mire
2 Plains
1 Mountain

18 Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Mother of Runes
3 Serra Avenger
3 Mirran Crusader

22 Others
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Aether vial
3 Lightning Helix
3 Path to exile
3 Swords to plowshares
2 Vindicate
2 Bitterblossom
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice

60 Total