If Land Tax was legal - Hypothetical decklist

[bruizar]

A lot of people (including me) would like to see Land Tax removed from the Banned List. A lot of people also think that its impact will not be that great. I disagree, but the point of this thread is not to plee for or against its unbanning. This is merely a thought exercise of what a Land Tax deck could look like. I´d like to share a hypothetical deck list based on Land Tax. This is by no means the final version, but I don´t think that is necessary until Land Tax actually becomes legal.

Feel free to discuss your thoughts


Decklist

//Removal
4x Path to Exile
2x Abolish
3x Rushing River

//Brainstorms
4x Brainstorm
1x Jace, The Mind Sculptor
2x Scroll Rack

//Permission
4x Force of Will
4x Mental Misstep
3x Daze

//Engine
4x Land Tax
4x Enlightened Tutor

//Beats
3x Jotun Grunt
2x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Sword of War and Peace
1x Sword of Body and Mind

//Mana Base
4x Tundra
4x Flooded Strand
6x Plains
4x Island
4x Mox Diamond

Permission

These protect your Land Tax and counter Aether Vial, so that your opponent must rely on making land drops.

Mental Misstep
Counter Aether Vial, Thoughtseize, Goblin Lackey or 1-mana counters (MM, Spell Pierce, Spell Snare)

Daze
Adjust the land count, so that Land Tax triggers

Force of Will
Needs no explanation

Removal

Rushing River
Bounces 2 permanents and helps trigger Land Tax. That is a huge tempo gain, especially considering the fact that the deck runs so many counters.

Abolish
Disenchant that doesn´t rely on land drops. Gets rid of Aether Vial and Counterbalance. You can do crazy things without mana like Daze, return Tundra, pitch tundra Abolish vial.

Path to Exile
Creature removal that regulates the land count. He probably doesn´t want to grab a land so it´s better than Swords to Plowshares.

Brainstorms

Jace, The Mindsculptor
Too good not to play. Brainstorm ability is good when you get to put plains back.

Scroll Rack
Not just Landcestral Recall, also helps you get back business cards that you recycle with Jotun Grunt

Brainstorm
Landcestral Recall

Beats

Jotun Grunt
Puts back pitched lands and business spells in your library, so that you can trigger Land Tax forever-ever and trade lands for business through Brainstorm, Jace or Scroll Rack.
Also

• Shrinks Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary.
• Maindeck dredge hate.

Stoneforge Mystic
Grabs 2 swords.

Sword of War and Peace

1. Lifegain with Land Tax is big
2. Sword damage helps race
3. Sword damage can be redirected to planeswalkers. Push damage through to player while killing a planeswalkers
4. Protection against zoo.dec + goblins.dec

or

Sword of Body and Mind

1. Protection from Jace/goyf.dec+Merfolk.dec
2. Feeds Jotun Grunt upkeep
3. Gives free bodies

Sword of Fire and Ice is probably better than Body and Mind, but I want to have War and Peace and didn't want to go for Sword of Light and Shadow or Sword of Feast and Famine. Body and Mind has a good color combination but the effect isn't too strong. Not sure on the second Sword yet, perhaps replace for Umezawa's Jitte.

Engine

Land Tax
Almost forgot the main engine of the deck! Obviously, this thing gets you +3 cards each turn

Enlightened Tutor
Gets you Land Tax, or Scroll Rack. After setting up the combo, you can put Mox Diamonds or Equipment on your deck and grab them. Mox Diamonds are actually really good in this deck so it doesn´t hurt to filter them out.

and finally..

Mox Diamond
Way to cheat the number of lands in play. Works well with Land Tax, especially on the play.

[Skeggi]

I suppose Foil would be good. What about Seismic Assault?

[bruizar]

I suppose Foil would be good. What about Seismic Assault?

I think I´d rather have Forbid than Foil. Seismic Assault looks very strong, but would be an entirely different deck.

[Scordata]

Because this is the source, I'm supposed to criticize your list right away:
Mox diamond and 18 lands is a nonbo - run 3-4 more fetches, your brainstorms will thank you for it.

You are running 5 creatures and 1 planeswalker. 6 wincons? Not gonna get there. Consider running more creatures that combo with land tax, such as Fathom Seer, and those zendikar dudes who make you bounce lands every turn.

I understand the interaction between PtE and Land Tax, but its just gonna make your dazes worthless. StP is better maindboard choice, maybe PtE's in the board if you are having trouble with aggro decks.

Since you are running E Tutor, you have an excuse to run some techy shit maindeck - use the synergies, don't abuse them.

Anyway, I like the idea, keep tinkering!

[perm]

I think I´d rather have Forbid than Foil. Seismic Assault looks very strong, but would be an entirely different deck.

There are better ways to combo with seismic assault than land tax. But I agree, foil could be used as FoW 5-6.

Anyways, MD jotun grunt sucks.

[rufus]

Fundamentally, an issue with Land Tax is that it's pretty slow. For example, with Scroll Rack you spend 4 mana to net 1 card. Land Tax+Brainstorm is much stronger, but is still quite conditional.

What matchups does this deck do well in? It seems like you might have a good chance vs High Tide based storm combo, but most of the format will be busy bashing face while you're getting your Land Tax on line.

I think I'd rather see Land Tax grafted into some kind of Aggro Loam shell.

[nayon]

Ironically, your Lands matchup looks pretty bad :D Also, isn't a deck relying heavily on a 1-drop awkward in this upcoming metagame where everyone would be running MMs?

Anyway, indeed this deck doesn't look too broken to keep LT banned. perhaps a more broken deck can be achieved?

Finally, your aggro matchup already looks bad, and Merfolk (which will be pretty popular for a while) can theoretically run off of very low amount of lands, avoiding giving you the tax.

[Guy I Don't Know]

I could see abusing raven's crime with the deck

Decklist:
3 Vindicate
4 Path to Exile
3 Scroll Rack
3 Raven's Crime
4 Land Tax
3 Thoughtseize

4 Dark Confidant
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Stoneforger Mystic
3 Bitterblossom

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Basilisk Collar

4 Mox Diamond
4 Scrublands
4 Marsh Flats
4 Plains
4 Swamps
1 Karakas

Basically uses land tax for ravens crime and scroll rock. Could cut down on lands. I don't know what the best creatures are to run either.

[mchainmail]

probably involving Terravore and Noble Hierarch...

[bruizar]

Ironically, your Lands matchup looks pretty bad :D Also, isn't a deck relying heavily on a 1-drop awkward in this upcoming metagame where everyone would be running MMs?

Anyway, indeed this deck doesn't look too broken to keep LT banned. perhaps a more broken deck can be achieved?

Finally, your aggro matchup already looks bad, and Merfolk (which will be pretty popular for a while) can theoretically run off of very low amount of lands, avoiding giving you the tax.

0 CC
Force of Will
Mental Misstep
Daze
Abolish
1 CC
Land Tax
Enlightened Tutor
Path to Exile
Brainstorm
2 CC
Jotun Grunt
Stoneforge Mystic
Sword of War and Peace
Sword of Body and Mind
Scroll Rack
3 CC
Rushing River
4 CC
Jace, The Mind Sculptor

I have 1 Jace that, admittedly requires too much mana to cast. Other than that, 12 of my spells cost more than 1 mana (2 or 3). I am running 4 Mox Diamonds with a relatively low land-count so I don´t need to make my Land Drops.

The only card that really requires 3 mana is Rushing River, which puts me back to 2 mana after I cast it. If I have 1 Mox Diamond in play, that means I will have 1 land.

Perhaps I need 1 more Stoneforge Mystic. Sword of Body and Mind is a great card against Merfolk. Some Merfolk players like splashing Tarmogoyf which SoBaM is effective against as well. I get to attack the Merfolk player, and get an untapped wolf that I can equip with Sword in return. snatch 10 cards.

Perhaps 4 StP/Poryphory Nodes should go in the sideboard, to better fight aggro, but I´m really not that concerned about the aggro matchup because of the fact that I get to recycle my removal (Rushing River+Path to Exile) with Jotun Grunt, and get to shrink Goyfs and Knights. The idea of the deck is to start an attrition war and exhaust resources, which you can infinitely recycle.

[Uly Van Hammer]

I just dont see it getting unbanned. Remember that with multiples you are pulling 6+ cards per turn. Seems pretty degenerate.

[mchainmail]

Perhaps I need 1 more Stoneforge Mystic. Sword of Body and Mind is a great card against Merfolk. Some Merfolk players like splashing Tarmogoyf which SoBaM is effective against as well. I get to attack the Merfolk player, and get an untapped wolf that I can equip with Sword in return. snatch 10 cards.

Merfolk doesn't splash for Goyf any more... that was so 2010. (Coralhelm Commander fills Tarmogoyf's role, more or less.

[GGoober]

To be honest, I tested Land Tax and it was underwhelming. Sure there's lots of things to abuse it with, but that means about 6-8 slots of cards that abuse a card advantage engine. Compare that to cards like SDT/Standstill which draws much less cards but are already solid on their own, you are now able to play with more free slots to win/control the game. Maybe Landstill isn't the best shell to squeeze Land Tax in, but I really can't see any other decks abusing Land Tax the way a control deck would.

The thing is, Land Tax by itself doesn't generate any advantage (given that most legacy players can play on a low curve and if you're the control deck hoping that your opponents make land drops, and all the time an opponent is playing threats off Vial/Hierarch/Lackey/1cmc creatures, it becomes hard to gain an advantage until after turn 3+. If you yourself can't miss a land drop, you are essentially turning off your own Tax by playing a land drop.

I think the card could still use a lot more testing, but given some limited testings i've done in control lists, it doesn't seem too impressive as a FOUR off. I play 2-3 Land Tax as a source of unreliable card advantage. Land Tax requires you to play with Brainstorm (this is always good) and Scroll Rack (this is not always good), and some other forms of manipulation to truly make it powerful. The interaction of Land Tax and Land Tax Abusing Card is much more situational and difficult to setup than something like a 1cmc instant Brainstorm with fetchlands.

[Master Shake]

I'm a big fan of Land Tax being unbanned some day soon and I tell people, albeit somewhat jokingly that with Mental Misstep around, Land Tax is fine. I've personally never taken the time to build a fantasy deck with my favorite card assuming it got unbanned but I think Metalwalker is on the right path though, you're playing a lot of really condition cards where you probably don't need to be, like Abolish and Rushing River (less so on Rushing River, but the card just isn't stellar.) The point I disagree with Metalwalker on is if Scroll Rack is a conditional card, it's amazing nearly always.

If you're going to be using so many Enlightened Tutors in the main, why not have something else great to grab with them? Moat comes to mind as that one's pretty good. If you find a way to get inevitability you can include Solitary Confinement to this list. Even a one-of Zuran Orb or Trade Routes isn't a bad idea. Not to mention how well this likely synergies very well with all of this

I think you're missing some of the sweeter control pieces as well, I think it's fine to just slap Counterspell in this deck and maybe even Wrath of God, because your opponents are going to try to extend on to the board as much as possible.

Both of our builds still find me lacking for a win-condition, Jotun Grunt is likely a fine inclusion, but I'm not quite sold on Stoneforge Mystic for this kind of deck.

Anyway, I'll keep spreading the word that Land Tax is fair and underpowered compared to Mental Misstep, everyone should do the same and maybe we'll get to play with Land Tax soon.

[bruizar]

Not too long ago, Land Tax was seeing some play Vintage, the format least dependent on lands as mana sources. The lands that do get played are often so degenerate that they are not legal in Legacy. This deck was able to see the light of day in a meta with Mishra's Workshop, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Sapphire, Mox Ruby, Mox Pearl, Black Lotus, Dark Ritual and Tolarian Academy. These are the best accelerants the game has seen since its release nearly 20 years ago. Are you really going to suggest that Legacy, the abused stepchild of Vintage is too fast for Land Tax?

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/16515.html

In this article, 4 Mox Diamonds are run alongside 16 lands of which 5 are Wasteland/Strip Mine. The idea of playing 24 lands if you're playing with Mox Diamonds is a fallacy. That may be a requirement for Aggro Loam, but it's not a requirement for the card Mox Diamond. I think I've played with Mox Diamond more than most of the people here. Having it in your opening hand is much more important than having it "pollute" your draws. I say this, because it depends on the number of basics (How fragile your mana base to wasteland/back to basics/blood moon is), and the curve you have. This deck can operate on 1 or 2 mana sources, which is 1 Mox Diamond and perhaps 1 land. I don't know any deck that can operate on so little resources besides Dredge.

I am willing to admit that the threat density is too low. Perhaps I'd run Squadron Hawks in it to have more scrollrack/brainstorm fodder and to have infinite chumpers with Jotun grunt. I have actually tested a list very similar to this one and it plays out nice. It's a slow control deck that tries to exhaust resources. You should not forget that Land Tax is a shuffle effect each turn, so anything you put back with Jotun grunt immediately gets shuffled, increasing your odds of drawing business.

[Master Shake]

Not too long ago, Land Tax was seeing some play Vintage, the format least dependent on lands as mana sources. The lands that do get played are often so degenerate that they are not legal in Legacy. This deck was able to see the light of day in a meta with Mishra's Workshop, Mana Vault, Sol Ring, Mana Crypt, Mox Emerald, Mox Jet, Mox Sapphire, Mox Ruby, Mox Pearl, Black Lotus, Dark Ritual and Tolarian Academy. These are the best accelerants the game has seen since its release nearly 20 years ago. Are you really going to suggest that Legacy, the abused stepchild of Vintage is too fast for Land Tax?

http://www.starcitygames.com/php/new...cle/16515.html

In this article, 4 Mox Diamonds are run alongside 16 lands of which 5 are Wasteland/Strip Mine. The idea of playing 24 lands if you're playing with Mox Diamonds is a fallacy. That may be a requirement for Aggro Loam, but it's not a requirement for the card Mox Diamond. I think I've played with Mox Diamond more than most of the people here. Having it in your opening hand is much more important than having it "pollute" your draws. I say this, because it depends on the number of basics (How fragile your mana base to wasteland/back to basics/blood moon is), and the curve you have. This deck can operate on 1 or 2 mana sources, which is 1 Mox Diamond and perhaps 1 land. I don't know any deck that can operate on so little resources besides Dredge.

I am willing to admit that the threat density is too low. Perhaps I'd run Squadron Hawks in it to have more scrollrack/brainstorm fodder and to have infinite chumpers with Jotun grunt. I have actually tested a list very similar to this one and it plays out nice. It's a slow control deck that tries to exhaust resources. You should not forget that Land Tax is a shuffle effect each turn, so anything you put back with Jotun grunt immediately gets shuffled, increasing your odds of drawing business.

I think you're misrepresenting what that deck really was. Meandeck Parfait was never really played by anyone, that I know of, let alone having any meaningful placings. I played with the deck a bit when that article first went up and it did have some match-ups but was essentially underpowered even at that point.

In fact, the last time I was aware of a Parfait deck doing well in Vintage was sometime around 2006 or 2007, which was an entirely different era in the game.

Besides, Land Tax can only get basic lands, that's fair.
Land Tax can only get lands if you're behind, that's also fair
Land Tax is an enchantment - enchantments are the easiest permanents to destroy in the game. That's fair.
Land Tax costs one and Mental Misstep is in literally ever deck ever now, that's fair.

Conclusion: Land Tax is fair and fun.

[(nameless one)]

I have been playing with this 'Legacy Parfait' list. So far it's been okay but it definitely needs a better win condition:


12 Plains
4 Crystal Vein
3 Wasteland
3 Mox Diamond
1 Mistveil Plains

4 Land Tax
3 Scroll Rack
1 Zuran Orb
1 Crucible of Worlds

4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Orim's Chant
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Ghostly Prison
2 Isochron Scepter
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Runed Halo
1 Armageddon
1 Humility
1 Pithing Needle
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Wrath of God

1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Goblin Charbelcher
1 Luminarch Ascension


The deck hasn't had any updates since Scars of Mirrodin. I myself love the card but it does take long to win with it.

Any questions, comments and ideas are more than welcome.

[GGoober]

I'm a big fan of Land Tax being unbanned some day soon and I tell people, albeit somewhat jokingly that with Mental Misstep around, Land Tax is fine. I've personally never taken the time to build a fantasy deck with my favorite card assuming it got unbanned but I think Metalwalker is on the right path though, you're playing a lot of really condition cards where you probably don't need to be, like Abolish and Rushing River (less so on Rushing River, but the card just isn't stellar.) The point I disagree with Metalwalker on is if Scroll Rack is a conditional card, it's amazing nearly always.

..

Anyway, I'll keep spreading the word that Land Tax is fair and underpowered compared to Mental Misstep, everyone should do the same and maybe we'll get to play with Land Tax soon.

Hey Shake, just wanted to clarify that I'm not dissing Scroll Rack as a bad card. It's definitely have conditionality inbuilt in it more than its cousin Sensei's Diving Top. There's some benefits to Rack that Top doesn't provide and that is: its efficiency/power scales with the hand-size you have. If you have more cards in hand, Rack becomes stronger (with/withoutfetches, another big advantage over Top when you have a big handsize is that you don't need fetches and it's still amazing). However, when your handsize is around 0-3 cards, Rack becomes less powerful than Top in digging for spells. For most parts, Top is the most mana efficient digging tool than Rack, but if Land Tax is unbanned, Rack's power level is much much higher (tied to the increased hand size).

I definitely feel that Land Tax is not an overpowered card, because it's really hard to fit it in a deckshell that works without figuring out what to cut. Just 4 Land Tax in a deck is pretty bad without something to abuse it with. Most Legacy decks these days can easily play around Land Tax (Hierarch/Vial/Lackey/Combo) etc. And like you said, Land Tax only grabs BASIC lands, which really limits the amount of decks it can be played it. Annoyingly, you need at least 6-8 slots (including Land Tax) to even make it worthwhile. If you start dedicating more slots to a more broken engine e.g. Seismic Assault/Forbid, then we start looking into slow round-about win-conditions that don't look impressive against existing current game-engines e.g. Natural Order, Show and Tell, Standstill, Bob, all kinda laugh at the 8-12 cards Land Tax decks dedicate to gain card-advantage when these currently existing cards are already super mana efficient in doing the same job currently.

Nevertheless, having Land Tax unbanned would be a good thing in my opinion. White control, and a host of control decks with new varieties could spring up. I don't see this card breaking the format at all. Sure it sucks that they get 3 BASIC (haha) lands, and possibly abuse it with an engine on turn 3,4. but the 8-12 slots to Tax.dec is not going to do anything for most parts against a host of decks e.g. combo/Lackey/Merfolk etc.

On another note, I'm expecting this card to be unbanned in some time because of reasons I mentioned above. If WotC's banning decisions have been as consistent as they had been (Survival, MTutor, Monolith, Time Spiral), this is definitely a safe card to come off. Also, I've been collecting ENLG Land Taxes and Korean FBB Land Taxes waiting to unload when the announcement is made :) We all know Time Spirals are worth $60 and Entombs are worth $50 when banning announcements are made. (Here's my sarcastic advice for people who have too much money: Don't buy Land Taxes right when they're unbanned. Like seriously. Save some money.)

[menace13]

Not sure where Land Tax would be amazing in, but Enchantress, Thopters and Baneslayer Control all play 6+ Basics and use white spells.

[bruizar]

Land Tax is an enchantment - enchantments are the easiest permanents to destroy in the game. That's fair.

I think Artifact Creature wins that trophy, then creature and after that artifact, then Non-basic land, then enchantment, then Basic land. Not counting basic-land, Enchantment is the most difficult card type to hate out.

I agree with your conclusion though.