Running 4 Contract from Below in Shandalar is the most broken thing I've ever done in Magic. You kind of don't lose when you play it so I never worried about ante.
In a vaccuum Grizzly Bear is better than all 4... Will is broken when you play good cards, you don't need the restricted list to break it.Originally Posted by Infinitium
BBT:
I don't think Legacy will become a 4 Jace format, but heavy control decks will/should be using the full suite of the mind sculpting guy - considering he does everything such a deck wants to do. Afterall, what's the best comeback from losing a Jace? Play another.
Sooooo much true. I think I never lost a game where I resolved a Contract from Below. Having 40 cards in your deck also makes easier to chain a Contract into another one. I'm not sure about the win % with a resolved Contract in a "real" format, but in Shandalar is close to 100%.
@Jace: avoiding silly comparisons with ultra-broken blasts from the past, it's a good thing to analyze some of the other 4cc cards that see play in Legacy:
- Natural Order: wins the game in 2 turns against a good number of decks
- Moat: wins the game when it lands against a decent number of decks
- IGG: wins the game when resolved against a decent number of decks
- Sneak Attack: wins the game when it lands against a good number of decks (but you need a monster to feed it)
So, it appears that the golden standard for 4cc cards in Legacy is "win the game often". They are very powerful, but somewhat conditional (Moat is uneffective vs flying creatures/burn, you can still lose the race after a resolved Order, etc.). The better quality of Jace is that it's not conditional at all. There's no situation where your Jace it's useless. It wins you the game if you're already ahead while cutting opponent's outs (fateseal), brings you ahead if the situation is even (brainstorm), brings you even if you are behind (bounce).
It's probably the best 4-drop in Legacy right now, and I tend to agree that if your manabase supports it, you should be running 4 of them. The format is quite slow now, and it's where Jace shines more.
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But what decks shouldn't you be running TMS against? Isn't it very important to not rely solely on jace as a win con for some decks? Zoo comes to mind, what with all of the burn it runs.
I've been saying this for months, and people thought I was a Jace whore.
Jace TMS = The best four mana spell in Magic.
"Bingo, man, bingo. 7-Minute Abs. And we guarantee just as good a workout as the 8-minute folk."
"You guarantee it? That's - how do you do that?"
"If you're not happy with the first 7 minutes, we're gonna send you the extra minute free. You see? That's it. That's our motto. That's where we're comin' from. That's from A to B."
Followed very closely by humility
I am inclined to agree. The only other spells that come close are Tendrils and maybe Natural Order.
In Vintage I think Jace might be better than Gifts and FoF.
Think? lol, no, he IS better than those cards in Vintage. Two turns of good fatesealing are enough to screw the game over for the opponent if they can't stop Jace.
Yes, or even his Brainstorm and draw a card can put players behind. Only reason I said I think, was because Gifts can end the game right away usually.
The only reason Jace is considered good enough in Vintage is because Gifts Ungiven is restricted.
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Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I dont get it with Gifts...
Why is it banned/restricted in so many formats?
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It's only restricted in Vintage because it is an instant that can setup "I Win" situations like tutoring for Time vault, yawgmoth's will, voltaic key and regrowth (just one example out of many possible). Together with the unrestricted merchant scroll you were able to chain scroll into Gifts tutoring for Gifts, merchant scroll and 2 restricted bombs etc. so it got the restriction axe (unlike Scroll) ... a clear fail as the folliwing Flash/Gush-Era showed.
It's still legal in Legacy, mainly because of it's Lack of the restricted vintage Cards like yawgmoth's will, moxen, Black lotus and shit
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I don't know. The format shifts so often that while it might be a 4-Jace format for a little while, decks will come along to punish the decks that play more of those top-heavy bombs.
I dare imagine how our format would be faster to the point of punishing someone for playing Jace, what with Force of Will and Mental Misstep to slow down those same decks.
I do believe Jace is gaining in popularity, and Misstep definitely helped.
We're far from that still, but do you believe a ban would be possible on the horizon?
Why the heck does every fucking thread these days evolve into a "ban something" topic? Misstep, Force of Will, Brainstorm, Jace .... All cards some people suggested ban-worthy this month...
I swear the next time any Aggro deck performs well 3 tournaments in a row I spam "ban vial, it's a perm. Black Lotus for creatures", "ban nacatl, it's metawarping", "omg goblin lackey is so broken" etc. Threads all over the net!
Xp
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Perhaps some are hoping that if they complain enough like many did for SotF, they can get said card banned. Perhaps some hate blue. Perhaps some think blue is too popular and they are bothered that their pet deck isn't seeing much play.
Here pal, get ya well deserved, cross-topic...
+1 :D
Much too much IMPS floating these days
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I still sometimes get a warm fuzzy feeling when recalling how I stubbornly promoted Jace TMS over at the LS thread as soon as it got spoiled, with 95% of you guys going like: "Kinda cool, but nah - at 4 mana he won't make it in Legacy"
I'm with you there !
It's really anoying me, all that banhammer waving for no good reason.
Why is it so hard for people to adept, and make the right meta calls
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