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Thread: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

  1. #1

    5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Hi guys
    This was from a side event after type 2 regionals in Auckland, New Zealand
    NZ is mainly a type2 place
    But there are a few 'Eternal Ballers' who are kind enough to hook everybody up with something to play
    We had 16 players enter so no joke it was probably the biggest legacy event auckland has ever seen
    (As a comparison we have run a sealed PTQ in the same venue with over 100 players)
    I brought my own deck though, so here's the report
    Note that it is pretty much copy-pasted from my local forum so some references to local players may not mean much to people here

    Dredge
    4 GGT
    4 StImp
    4 Thug
    4 Breakthrough
    4 Careful Study
    4 Narcomoeba
    4 Bridge from Below
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Dread Return
    3 Ichorid
    4 Putrid Imp
    4 Tireless Tribe

    4 City of Brass
    4 Gemstone Mine
    4 Cephalid Coliseum
    3 Tarnished Citadel

    SB
    1 Elesh Norn
    1 Ichorid
    1 Woodfall Primus
    4 Firestorm
    1 Darkblast
    3 Leylines of Void
    Some Irrelevant cards I didn't use because I couldn't pick up what I needed

    I tried to put that list together from the 'Dark Art of Dredge-Fu' article on SCG.
    I got the whole maindeck as you can see
    I had to SB Primus instead of Angel because I couldn't get my hands on one
    Winds of Change were especially hard to find and the dealer flat out laughed at me when I asked if he had any
    Luckily I did not play against any matchups where they were required
    I wonder if burning inquiry wouldve been an okay substitute as I could have brought them from home

    Round 1
    Dan Yao
    Fish

    I win the roll
    I open with a land into Careful Study
    He Missteps it
    He drops island and passes
    I Therapy myself to try and discard GGT
    But he missteps it
    Next turn he drops a silvergill
    I have nothing and pass
    He drops another silvergill
    I draw tireless tribe and try to cast it but he successfully dazes it because I still have only one land
    Some more fishies join the party
    As a last ditch effort I draw another Tireless tribe and try to cast it but it gets forced

    SB firestorms

    G2 He plays an early crypt
    I try to slow dredge into an ichorid
    But I mill all my bridges before I can find one
    He breaks crypt and a team of fish assembles before I can generate a dread return with any sort of impact

    0-1
    Not too happy
    Misstep is a pretty huge slap in the face for any dredge pilot

    Round 2:
    David Glynn-Jones
    Zoo

    Game one is typical dredge fare
    I make some zombies and a 14/14 GGT and win from there

    G2 He bojuka bogs me early
    About halfway through this game he draws a card, looks at it and says "I don't understand at all why this card is good" and passes the turn
    I think for about 10 seconds
    -He's a standard player
    -He's piloting zoo
    "Flashback cabal therapy?"
    "Ok"
    "Chain lightning?"
    "GODDAMN"
    But he uses his burn spells and lavamancers to remove my bridges
    I can't build up to a win quick enough and he overruns me with guys

    G3 goes to time
    He has to leave so is nice enough to concede
    "You owe me one bro"
    "Maybe ill teach you what my cards do sometime"

    Matt Rogers sitting next to me laughs and gives me a high-five

    1-1

    Round 3:
    Andrew Plinston
    Gerry Ts UW deck

    Game one he opens with island
    I turn 1 careful study
    It resolves, I discard GGT and ichorid
    On his turn 2 he plays standstill
    I point out what this means and he concedes

    SB Firestorms

    G2 he drops an early peacekeeper which I really should have seen coming but I didn't side Darkblasts or Elesh for it and now it's going to be hard for me to win.
    I stop dredging and start drawing cards because my only out is kill it with a firestorm.
    I quickly concede after one firestorm gets countered because I don't want to go to time and the chance of me having more therapies and firestorms than he has counterspells is very small

    G3 I SB Darkblast and Elesh Norn
    He is quick to waste my lands, so I have no mana to cast darkblast after he lands a peacekeeper
    Jace comes down while I can't attack and Ichorids generate me around 20 zombies
    Jace has been fatesealing me for around 5 turns while I have only around ten cards left in my deck (from dredging, jace is only on around 10 counters). I say that if one of the first couple of cards he put on the bottom was a therapy then when I dredge GGT I will hit it
    Sure enough, Therapy goes to my yard
    I cast it, he lets it resolve
    I look at his grave
    There are 2 force of wills there
    so I name counterspell
    He reveals his hand and discards counterspell!
    He has no other protection so I dread return targeting elesh norn
    In response he taps an island and repeals a zombie
    he draws brainstorm off the repeal and casts it
    ....
    ..
    .
    .
    !

    But he has nothing and elesh comes to the party dealing him upwards of 40 damage
    2-1
    After the game he points out how annoying firestorm is for him
    I used it once just as a R: Discard 2 cards and deal 2 damage to each player and it was so worth it
    He sided out spell pirce but left in spell snare and I point out this is incorrect because pierce can hit dread return and therapy and firestorm while snare can't hit anything
    He also left his EE in the board which I said he should have brought in as well because it's an easy way to wipe out zombies.

    Round 4
    Jonathan
    Zoo

    G1 I lose somehow
    I don't quite recall
    G2 I win somehow
    I don't quite recall
    Although I do remember a skillful therapy when he has no way to remove my bridges correctly naming and hitting a grim lavamancer with no prior information
    From that therapy I saw a fireblast
    He's getting me down low, almost to burn range but I wait
    I wait until he taps 2 of his 3 lands for a goyf
    Next turn I therapy, with no response I name fireblast and I successfully hit the one I knew about AND a second one he was sandbagging which probably would have won him the game

    Nic Rawcliffe comes over (he just came top4 in the Regionals)
    "So is that 1-0 so far"
    "Nah it's 1-1"
    "Wtf isn't dredge always meant to win game 1?"
    "Haha isn't dredge always meant to lose post board?"

    G3 He has a turn 2 Teeg
    Darkblast is nowhere in sight
    I durdle around with some ichorids and zombies
    Eventually I find darkblast
    I dredge it in my draw step
    In my next turn I darkblast his teeg in my upkeep
    In my draw step I dredge it back and darkblast it again
    With dread return online Elesh hits the board
    with all his guys tapped from previous turn's alpa strike into zombies, the remaining zombies alpha strike into his face

    3-1
    5th place overall

    Props
    Borrowing foil Elesh off Alan (the TO)
    David scooping (even if he made my tiebreakers ***)
    Judge $5 discount
    APL reminding me to SB darkblast against him
    Tireless tribe against zoo not getting tired
    Sideboard Guide

    Slops
    Losing sideboard guide
    Opening Myr reservior in the prize pack
    Mental Misstep

    Note SB darkblast is essential as a way to deal with Peacekeeper and Teeg

    Angel of Despair is better than Terradon/Primus for the same reason

    I can also highly recommend elesh as it's pretty much an FKZ that kills opponent's uility guys, but I don't know if one is enough or if I need a second one

    Firestorm is definitely needed SB now as against MM decks (aka, any deck playing blue) you can expect your discard outlets to get countered

    The SB plan of
    'Forget about Needle/Nature's Claim/Chain of Vapor/Ancient Grudge/Ray of Revelation and just SB cards to alter the playstyle against whatever you are facing'
    Is correct, I believe
    In the whole tournament (even if it was only 4 rounds) the only 'Graveyard hate' card I saw was from the Fish player in round one. (and the bojuka bog from zoo in round 2, but you can't side anything to stop that anyway)

    Hope you enjoyed this report
    Next week I might play something different as people may now start siding more cards for dredge, seeing as the meta is so small

  2. #2
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    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Hey congrats on the win. Just wanted let u know that u don't need angel. Use woodfall primus and destroy all their white sources. Two cabal therapies and two dread returns can destroy most of a control players lands which can be more devastating for them anyway. Angel only shines over woodfall when dealing with blazing archon.

  3. #3

    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by joemauer View Post
    Hey congrats on the win. Just wanted let u know that u don't need angel. Use woodfall primus and destroy all their white sources. Two cabal therapies and two dread returns can destroy most of a control players lands which can be more devastating for them anyway. Angel only shines over woodfall when dealing with blazing archon.
    When you dread return woodfall and kill their white sources then you can't win that turn because PK is still there
    In their next turn they can play another one

    You have a good point though because I guess you can just try to therapy it away

  4. #4
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    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    When you dread return woodfall and kill their white sources then you can't win that turn because PK is still there
    In their next turn they can play another one
    Only if they have a way of flashing in a white source before upkeep trigger resolves. (Aether Vial in a Noble Hierarch?)

    I'm not a fan of Woodfall Primus or Terastadon though because it can't do much against an opponent sandbagging a fetchland. Woodfall Primus can probably hit the land they fetched next time off the persist, but that's kind of slow and Terastadon is generally a better card; but Terastadon actually can't do anything against Peacekeeper with an open fetchland backup (short of blowing them down to 1 mana source).

  5. #5

    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by lordofthepit View Post
    Only if they have a way of flashing in a white source before upkeep trigger resolves. (Aether Vial in a Noble Hierarch?)

    I'm not a fan of Woodfall Primus or Terastadon though because it can't do much against an opponent sandbagging a fetchland. Woodfall Primus can probably hit the land they fetched next time off the persist, but that's kind of slow and Terastadon is generally a better card; but Terastadon actually can't do anything against Peacekeeper with an open fetchland backup (short of blowing them down to 1 mana source).
    What I mean was
    woodfall primus can't target creatures
    So you dread return it and kill their white source(s)
    You have a bunch of zombies and a big green guy
    but their peacekeeper is still there
    Next turn
    They can't pay
    Peacekeeper dies
    So they just fetch a white and cast another one
    I think Angel also has value because of the flying

  6. #6
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    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Hey mate, thanks for the report, glad to hear there's Legacy going in NZ.

    When are your National Championships? Ours in Australia are in July 23-24, there will be some Legacy events there. Do you have any at yours? Maybe the 'ballers' could hook everyone else up with decks then too, best chance for it!

    Hard luck with Game 2 against Merfolk, hate it when your dredging just ain't on...

  7. #7

    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by pandaman View Post
    Hey mate, thanks for the report, glad to hear there's Legacy going in NZ.

    When are your National Championships? Ours in Australia are in July 23-24, there will be some Legacy events there. Do you have any at yours? Maybe the 'ballers' could hook everyone else up with decks then too, best chance for it!

    Hard luck with Game 2 against Merfolk, hate it when your dredging just ain't on...
    Yeah haha
    Im geared up to judge NZ nationals on the weekend after australias, 29th, 30th and 31st
    Not sure what side events there'll be but I guess we can look forward to some legacy, as there was some vintage last year

  8. #8

    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Good report. Given the prevelance of Misstep, and blue decks in general pushing ANT/belcher style decks down, I think it may be fine to just choose to draw at the moment so you dont get caught by Misstep on an outlet, then get wastelanded or lose to a second counterspell like round 1 game 1, especially if you know your opponent is on a blue tempo/control deck.

    In round 3 against landstill you could have just played out game 2 to a draw after winning game 1. They are so slow to try and kill you that even if he won with a few minutes to go you would still have had time to win game 3 with a few minutes left + the 5 extra turns. You also just never want to play a spell from your hand in that matchup until you have multiple dredgers. If you draw to 8 and discard you blank half their deck, then you can play your land once you need to Darkblast, or just therpy a bunch and DR the Angel.

  9. #9

    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Wakkarr View Post
    Good report. Given the prevelance of Misstep, and blue decks in general pushing ANT/belcher style decks down, I think it may be fine to just choose to draw at the moment so you dont get caught by Misstep on an outlet, then get wastelanded or lose to a second counterspell like round 1 game 1, especially if you know your opponent is on a blue tempo/control deck.
    If you are worried about that, you probably shouldn't play Dredge. There's a reason Feldman calls it Fearless Dredge.

    The format is too slow to draw, discard, dredge.

    If you're worried about infinite counterspells, you can replace some Thugs with Darkblasts, but it makes you dredge less.
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  10. #10

    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Or slow roll Tolarian Winds vs. Mental Mistep

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    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Or slow roll Tolarian Winds vs. Mental Mistep
    Only issue with that is the 2cc. Slow rolling 2-3 land drops (3 to prevent daze) that can still be countered by Force seems really loose. I love the card and have a set that I want to be able to use, I just can't see it being realistic.
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  12. #12
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    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Tolarian Winds is shit and not nessasary.Who garuantees we reach 2 lands?
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  13. #13
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    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Anusien View Post
    If you are worried about that, you probably shouldn't play Dredge. There's a reason Feldman calls it Fearless Dredge.

    The format is too slow to draw, discard, dredge.

    If you're worried about infinite counterspells, you can replace some Thugs with Darkblasts, but it makes you dredge less.
    I suppose you mean it's too fast, right?

    The only deck I've had problems against when I was doing DDD was against Merfolk, when they rock Relics.
    Being on the draw isn't a huge problem against most decks, your gameplan G1 is superior to theirs most of the time.
    This looks like a job for me.

    Most of my posts will be written from my phone, so please excuse the eventual lack of proper typing.

  14. #14

    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    Quote Originally Posted by Anusien View Post
    If you are worried about that, you probably shouldn't play Dredge. There's a reason Feldman calls it Fearless Dredge.

    The format is too slow to draw, discard, dredge.

    If you're worried about infinite counterspells, you can replace some Thugs with Darkblasts, but it makes you dredge less.

    The format being slow is the point. A few weeks ago I'd only DDD if I was sure my opponent was on a counterbalance/slow blue plan. But since UW landstill and Merfolk decks play 20 creatures and 12 free counters seem so popular, I think DDD'ing is fine. If you choose to draw and they turn out to be on an aggro/combo deck, then you just play your hand as normal. Even with DDD'ing you can just dredge until you hit a second dredger, then cast your spells, ideally after getting Narc and/or Ichorid + Therapy. Obviously this plan gets way better when you have information about the decks your playing against, so you know when you can afford to DDD and when you need to be fast.

  15. #15

    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    No, sorry, I meant to say too fast. It's super easy to race Tarmogoyfs if you're DDD. It's not super easy to race Natural Order or Tombstalkers that way.
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  16. #16

    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    You could have played game 1 much better. At least you should put that Troll in your yard before trying to cast spells. Especially against Merfolk. You almost never go on the play if you can; it gets you punished like you were in that match up.

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    Re: 5th Place with No-LED Dredge

    If the DDD's plan is really a good idea, can't we find a slot for the 4th Ichorid?

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