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Thread: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

  1. #5301
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    could Erebos take the improve draw enchantment place on Rector builds? may even better with the ones that run pod?

  2. #5302

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    I really like the idea of Erebos on birthing pod list. Could be the new draw engine

  3. #5303
    Aes Sídhe
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Played Thune's new shell last night, to a 2nd place finish at the local. Beat Shardless, lost to Reanimator (which took 1st), beat BUG Delver, beat Scapewish. Some thoughts...

    The creatures definitely need tuned up. Pod was always disgusting when it was online, even when I only had 1 or 2 choices left in deck at any given point on the chains. Redcap was surprisingly solid -- he shot a couple Delvers, a couple Deathrites, and knocked a t2 Liliana off of ultimate so I could deal with it. Against Scape, my hand got tore apart via Therapy into Rakdos's Return, but I had landed a Pod, and I was able to combo before him just via Podding.

    Rector -> Nightmare is as good as ever. Game 1 vs Shardless he had a solid hand, but he didn't have Deathrite, and Nightmare tore him a new one by itself.

    Voice terrified the BUG Delver player, but was otherwise was fairly mediocre. It was nice that he was a solid roadblock early in the game, but I think there are probably better options. Sigarda, Thrag, and the Archangels were fine all night. Sun Titan never happened, but I liked having the security blanket of knowing that if my Nightmare and my Witness were both gone, the Titan could get them back. Might be just better as a 2nd Witness, but blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

    A whole lot of things never came up, actually. I hardly saw Spike Feeder, I never drew Diabolic Intent, I never drew the Strangleroot, etc. The deck overall was playing significantly more aggroish than I really liked. I mean, the white version has always had more of an aggro plan than the other colors, but I dunno. Some of that may be my creature choices. That said, I was overall much more pleased with the Birthing Pod shell than the Living Wish shell -- having full access to my sideboard was excellent. I'm going to take some time and refine the creature choices a bit, and then I'll present an updated Thune list.

    ----------

    Erebos is strictly worse than Greed. We don't play Greed. Ergo, we shouldn't play Erebos. Keep in mind that we will never, EVER have Devotion to Black online for him. We're the only deck in legacy that actually has significant lifegain built in. Yes, he can be Podded into. But whether that's better than Podding into basically any other 4-drop that does basically anything, I'm not sure. As for Rectoring, I'm confidant that both Sylvan Bounty and Recycle are still better than Erebos. Erebos + Null Profusion might be kind of a thing, just because Erebos acts as a failsafe so you can't get draw-step-locked, plus it gives you 3/5 Devotion (between Erebos and Profusion), but ehhhhhhhhhhh. I really don't see it, guys.

  4. #5304
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)



    Too cute or brute in a BUG list?

  5. #5305

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Decided to run this at a local weeknight legacy event to change things up, and since the deck plays two of my favorite cards of all time, Recurring Nightmare and Birthing Pod, it was a blast.

    I couldn't find a Shadowborn Demon before the tourney, so I ran a Venser, Shaper Savant instead.

    In a taking a quick look, I didn't notice any lists with him in it...any particular reason? He was pretty sweet as a catch-all answer.

    I also like the idea of a Meloku over the Thragtusk...or at least searching for a more impactful 5-drop over Tusk.

    Deck was sweet, I ran the 3 Pod/2 Recur split. Went 2-1-1, losing to RUG on a really bad punt from just being raw to the deck and a draw to a miracles player who played way too slow and I'm pretty sure I would've won the match given more time(being a weekly event, it's a rough situation to get pushy).

  6. #5306
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobmans View Post


    Too cute or brute in a BUG list?
    Maybe if we weren't so reliant on GSZ to drop fatties after we ramp.

  7. #5307
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    So I made a lot of test games with Punishing Nic Fit for the past days, optimized the version and wrote a little primer including matchups and SB plans for the decks in the DTB section. I feel very confident about the card choices and the strength of the deck in the current Meta.

    Decklist:

    2 Bayou
    1 Badlands
    1 Taiga
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Wooded Foothills
    3 Swamp
    2 Forest
    1 Mountain
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Volrath's Stronghold

    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Eternal Witness
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    2 Huntmaster of the Fells
    1 Thrun, the Last Troll
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Primeval Titan

    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Thoughtseize
    3 Liliana of the Veil
    4 Punishing Fire
    3 Pernicious Deed
    2 Abrupt Decay

    SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast
    SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2 Golgari Charm
    SB: 2 Slaughter Games
    SB: 2 Thoughtseize
    SB: 1 Sylvan Ranger
    SB: 1 Abrupt Decay
    SB: 1 Garruk Relentless


    About the deck:

    Punishing Nic Fit is a pure Control deck. It plays a lot of board and hand control elements and strives for conistency, card advantage and a powerful late game.

    The first reason to play with Punishing Fire is of course the Punishing Fire - Grove of the Burnwillows Combo. In general getting value out of lands is an effect that Nic Fit desires because it helps you to do stuff with your mana and acts as flood protection. It kills the plethora of great 1-drops and 2-drops, keeps Tribal decks under control and gains value over the course of the game. Very importantly it also answers Planeswalkers, especially Jace TMS, who can be very problematic for Nic Fit.
    The second reason to play this version are the Red Elemental Blasts and Slaughter Games from the Sideboard. They are exactly the cards you want to optimize your Sideboard plans and no other version of Nic Fit has SB cards as good as these. The biggest problems Nic Fit has are Combo decks and Jace the Mind Sculptor and the red SB cards help to fight these.

    In the early game this version maximizes the chance of finding and triggering a Veteran Explorer with 4 Top and 4 Punishing Fire. It is not ideal to trigger Explorer with Punishing Fire but it will do if you need it. It also allows you to play no other mana creatures in the main that would either be inferior (Sakura Tribe Elder, Sylvan Ranger) or get killed 3/4 of the time (DR Shaman). Just don't blindly ramp against decks with Jace without anything to follow up, especially against Miracles.

    In the midgame you have the full amount of Sensei's Tops to make sure you draw the right ratio of mana and spells as well as the right type of spells. As a nonblue ramp deck this is very important because draws with 3 Explorers are as bad as draws with too little mana. You have a lot of removal to make sure you can keep the board under control. You have Fire and Decay to get rid of early Confidants, Deathrite Shamans and Delvers, Deed as a reset button and Liliana can act as additional removal or kill things like Tombstalker or Progenitus that you otherwise can't kill. Liliana of the Veil is very good in this list in general. Her Discard ability is great against Miracle decks and Combo decks and less harmful for this than it is for other Nic Fit lists because you can Discard Punishing Fire to her. The 4 Tops and the high chance of getting Explorer to trigger allows you to empty your hand quickly in case you don't have the Combo. Forcing both players into topdeck mode is not a bad thing, especially if you have a Top, tick up a Liliana and strong cards in your deck.

    As GSZ targets for the midgame you have either Huntmaster as a simple solid value guy, Thrun to pressure Planeswalkers or Witnesses to recycle Removal or Discard spells.

    In the late game this version is designed to win with Primeval Titan. Your main way of sealing the deal against fair decks is to get a Titan into play. He will get a combination of Kessig Wolf Run, Two Towers and Groves for your Punishing Fires. Unless you are too far behind already a resolved Titan should be better than anything other fair decks do. Groves and Two Towers are good at grinding out the game while Kessig Wolf Run will turn Thrun into an evil machine and kill the opponent very quickly.


    Matchups:


    Miracles

    - the game plays out different than other fair matchups because with Jace TMS and Entreat they have big threats, too. So don't use your Explorers carelessly or they will backfire. In G1 you usually want to trigger an Explorer with Therapy at least once but do it a bit later, more carefully and when you know you have a strong follow-up.
    - Top is awesome, keep it around, don't lose it to Counterbalance. Don't risk flipping it for no good reason.
    - Spend your early turns building up towards your game plans. Decay and Deed are important to keep Counterbalance off the table, try to get a Liliana into play.
    - Liliana is amazing. They have a hard time dealing with her. If you have Fire-Grove going that's ideal but even if you don't, build up to her ultimate.
    - Use Fire/Grove and Thrun to pressure/kill Jace.
    - If you are able to take control of the game try to have a Deed in play to not lose to Entreat the Angels.

    Postboard you have a bit of a transformational SB plan. You take out all your Explorers and Therapies because ramping both sides is not that good. There is a Sylvan Ranger in the SB so you have a way to get Mana from early GSZ's. You get Red Blasts which are awesome in this matchup because they can kill Jace on the stack as well as Slaughter Games to take care of their win conditions (Jace and Entreat).

    - 4 Explorer
    - 4 Therapy
    - 1 Scavenging Ooze
    - 1 Punishing Fire
    - 1 Phyrexian Tower
    + 4 Red Blast
    + 2 Thoughtseize
    + 2 Slaughter Games
    + 1 Sylvan Ranger
    + 1 Decay
    + 1 Garruk Relentless


    RUG
    This matchup is almost exclusively about overcoming their Mana Denial. Stifle is the by far their best card against us because it hits Explorer triggers, Deeds and Fetchlands. Cabal Therapy should usually either go for Brainstorm or for Stifle, depending on the situation.
    The matchup is very positive overall. Explorers are great against their denial plan and the deck approximately has one removal for each threat they play.
    Post board not much changes, but it gets even a little better. You don't get any insane cards but little upgrades. This is the only matchup in which you side out Huntmaster because he doesn't size up well against their deck. Red Blast can slow down their cantripping, kill a Delver or protect a trigger from Stifle.
    Normal RUG lists don't have much to bring in, they might bring Submerge instead of Bolt so if you use a fetchland with an Explorer in play they might shuffle it away, so play around that if you have the chance to but don't worry too much.

    - 1 Huntmaster of the Fells
    - 3 Punishing Fire
    - 2 Thoughtseize
    + 1 Abrupt Decay
    + 1 Sylvan Ranger
    + 4 Red Elemental Blast


    Shardless
    They are stronger early on but you have the better late game. It is often about recovering from Hymn and Liliana and building up your Mana. You can overcome some card disadvantage with card quality. Your goal is to resolve a Titan so you can go over the top of what they do. Fire-Grove can kill eveything except Goyfs so that is good.
    This is one of the few matchups in which you side out your Lilianas. Her discard doesn't match up well against Ancestral Visions, her Edict ability is bad against Shardless Agents and she dies to Decay. Red Blast is great because it can hit Vision, Jace and Brainstorm.

    - 1 Eternal Witness
    - 2 Thoughtseize
    - 3 Liliana of the Veil
    + 1 Abrupt Decay
    + 1 Garruk Relentless
    + 4 Red Elemental Blast


    SnT
    Preboard is your worst matchup besides 12-Post or Stage/Depths Combo decks, though with 2 Thoughtseizes and 3 Lilianas in addition to Therapies you have the Tools to steal G1 wins from them.
    Postboard it gets much better, the matchup gets at least even. Red Blast and Slaughter Games are amazing. They bring in the White Leyline so side in the Golgari Charms for that. Charm can also hit idle Sneak Attacks which are not uncommon and a great danger if you manage to keep them on 0 cards with Liliana. The White Leyline is obviously very strong against us but that is not the biggest concern. It is their matchup to lose. If they Mulligan for it, have Multiples or keep bad hands because of it you might be able to win with Red Blasts, Surgicals and Liliana.

    - 2 Abrupt Decay
    - 4 Punishing Fire
    - 3 Pernicious Deed
    - 1 Thragtusk
    - 1 Primeval Titan
    - 1 Veteran Explorer
    - 1 Stronghold
    + 4 Red Blast
    + 2 Slaughter Games
    + 2 Thoughtseize
    + 2 Surgical
    + 2 Golgari Charm
    + 1 Sylvan Ranger


    Elves!
    You play Fire and Deed so the matchup isn't the worst but it is certainly not easy either. They can kill you with Glimpse and Order quickly and Symbiote can also get out of control quickly. But if you survive the early turns and you get Fire/Grove going you are in a good position. Liliana is an important tool here because her "+1" ability prevents them from storing Elves and then going off with a topdecked Glimpse. Her Edict can also be useful as simple extra removal but more importantly to get rid off a big thing they GSZ'ed for. Sideboarding doesn't change much but it you get a couple of nice cards.

    - 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
    - 1 Thragtusk
    - 2 Explorer
    - 1 Scavenging Ooze
    - 1 Kessig Wolf Run
    + 2 Golgari Charm
    + 2 Thoughtseize
    + 1 Garruk Relentless
    + 1 Abrupt Decay


    Jund
    The matchup plays very similar to the Shardless matchup. Jund might overrun you with DR Shaman, Hymn, Confidant and Liliana but you have tools to fight back. If the game goes long and nothing went wrong you should have an edge because thanks to Titan you have more Fire/Grove and because with Two Towers + Thragtusk you won't die.
    Post board not much changes because both decks have not much useful to bring in. You should side out the Lilianas, they are awful against Jund.

    - 3 Liliana of the Veil
    + 1 Thoughtseize
    + 1 Garruk Relentless
    + 1 Abrupt Decay


    AnT
    Similarly to SnT decks you can steal wins in G1 but it is not easy. The key cards are your Discard spells, Liliana and Scavenging Ooze.
    G2 gets much, much better. More Discard and more disruption instead of the many clunky cards from G1. The Red Blasts slow down their cantripping, especially the Brainstorm in response to Discard. For Empty the Warrens you keep the Deeds in. They are better than Golgari Charm because they can't be discarded anymore once they are on the battlefield and they can blow up idle LED's and Petals (which are not a rare sight due to Liliana).

    - 2 Abrupt Decay
    - 4 Punishing Fire
    - 1 Volrath's Stronghold
    - 1 Explorer
    - 1 Thrun, the Lats Troll
    - 1 Thragtusk
    - 1 Primeval Titan
    + 4 Red Elemental Blast
    + 2 Slaughter Games
    + 2 Surgical Extraction
    + 2 Thoughtseize
    + 1 Sylvan Ranger


    Death and Taxes
    This is not a bye like it looks on paper but you do have a clear edge and should be able to kill all their creatures with Fire, Decay, Liliana and Deed.
    Post board the matchup gets a bit worse. They bring Rest in peace which is very good but most importantly they have Cataclysm which is the real threat. Be aware of that and - if you have the chance to do so - keep lands in hand, Basic Lands in the deck and an Explorer on the battlefield. On the other hand you get Golgari Charm which is also a blowout (it kills Mother or Runes, Thalia, Revoker, Mindcensor, Flickerwisp and Mangara).

    - 1 Thoughtseize
    - 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
    - 1 Scavenging Ooze
    - 1 Thragtusk
    + 2 Golgari Charm
    + 1 Abrupt Decay
    + 1 Sylvan Ranger


    Deathblade
    They want to play a fair game but you are better at that than they are. Punishing Fire kills everything they have, Therapy is great against Stoneforge Mystic and Deeds are also great. If the game goes long you have the better late game thanks to your Titan.
    Post board not much changes. Red Blasts are okay, they get Jace and Brainstorm, but I don't think you want all 4 because they do nothing early on against Shaman, Mystic and Confidant. They won't have anything that is significantly better than any of their maindeck cards, either. Side out all Lilianas at the first sight of Lingering Souls.

    + 2 Red Elemental Blast
    + 1 Garruk Relentless
    + 1 Abrupt Decay
    - 2 Thoughtseize
    - 1 - 1 Scavenging Ooze
    Last edited by Tao; 11-20-2013 at 10:01 AM.

  8. #5308

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Very good primer, Tao!

  9. #5309
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    New to the deck putting together a gbw pod version very similar to arianrhod my questions are is thrun and sigarda too redundant and if so should thrun be a wickerbourgh elder? If not what would my third four drop be.

    Second question might be noobish(well definetly is) but I am correct in thinking I can sac shriek maw in response to the evoke trigger to pod into a titan if so would it be better to just play a fourth five drop and play two shriekmaw?

    Third question I have a deathrite shaman and glissa where sakura tribe elder is how important is the two drop slot currently I only have ooze and 2 strangleroot giests with the ooze in place of diabolic intent.

    Fourth and final question my only rector targets are deed is this right or should I be dropping her keeping thrun and adding elder or baloth to keep just ticking up the life total? thanks in advance

  10. #5310
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    @Ayotte,

    I saw potential in Phophet of Kruphix as well. I think she might have a home in a BUG Fit list with mainboard FoW and Far // Away. This way, you could go on about casting your usual business while untapping to hardcast FoW or some straight up Counterspells. It also opens up a lot of mana during your opponent's turn for Far // Away and Cryptic Command tricks with Eternal Witness. All your creatures get Vigilance and giving Eternal Witness Flash with some counterspells in the yard turns her into a snapcaster.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
    Get it...? Ass, u, me?

    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  11. #5311
    Aes Sídhe
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Currently 2-0 at philly. Beat uwr delver and burn. Steve is 1-1 with thune. I've also seen a bug pod version as well, who said he's from the source.

  12. #5312

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    @ Prophet of Kuphrix: I actually think it has a lot of potential usefulness in a BUG list, and here's why...

    1) Obviously more mana is always great. While it can't be used on casting GSZ for creatures, that's not really a huge issue, at least IMO.

    2) Flashing into Baleful Strix or Coiling Oracle EOT seems really good, particularly since it's just going to generate more and more CA. Can also do some really cute things with flashing Strix in in response to attackers, or using it with Academy Ruins and a second Strix to chain through several before/after combat.

    3) You can tap out and still retain control of the game even without FoW. IMO if you run Prophet you are actually less likely to be in favor of running FoW MD, simply because you can retain control later on with non-free counters so long as Prophet is out there. You obviously still want it in the SB, but I think the better option would be to relegate it entirely to there.


    If only it let you cast everything as thought it had Flash, but at that point it would probably be way too good with GSZ...

  13. #5313
    Aes Sídhe
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    3-1. Beat uwr delver again, then lost to mud.

  14. #5314
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Ugh. Looks like philly is overrun with show and tells. Card is getting a little annoying.

  15. #5315
    Taobotmox

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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Go Arian. Avoid those SnT decks.

    Quote Originally Posted by uncletiggy View Post
    New to the deck putting together a gbw pod version very similar to arianrhod my questions are is thrun and sigarda too redundant and if so should thrun be a wickerbourgh elder? If not what would my third four drop be.

    Second question might be noobish(well definetly is) but I am correct in thinking I can sac shriek maw in response to the evoke trigger to pod into a titan if so would it be better to just play a fourth five drop and play two shriekmaw?

    Third question I have a deathrite shaman and glissa where sakura tribe elder is how important is the two drop slot currently I only have ooze and 2 strangleroot giests with the ooze in place of diabolic intent.

    Fourth and final question my only rector targets are deed is this right or should I be dropping her keeping thrun and adding elder or baloth to keep just ticking up the life total? thanks in advance
    - I don't think you want Thrun in a Pod list because he doesn't give you value when you sac him for a 5-drop. Murderous Redcap and Academy Rector are 4-drop cards I'd want to play in any white Pod version.
    - You can't use Birthing Pod "in response" at all. You can only use in when the stack is empty. So that trick doesn't work.
    - I don't think you need Tribe Elder in a Pod deck.
    - At least one enchantment that does something to advance the board would be a good idea. Depending on the version Recurring Nightmare, Primeval Bounty and Collective Blessing are options.

  16. #5316
    Aes Sídhe
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Wheels fell off. 3-3 now....deck has proceeded to start doing the no-land/all-land dance. Disappointed that with such a strong finish, I'm playing for 50 bucks. Pretty fucking lame.

  17. #5317
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Dead by storm. Details tomorrow.

    Haven't actually seen any show and tell around me....even when I was at th top tables earlier. Must be the scg pros who are getting feature matches I guess.

    First scg I haven't cashed in a good while now...pretty bummed.

  18. #5318
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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    http://topdecker.gr/mtg-news/3108-th...hen-rider.html

    So...seems like an upgrade to Angel of Despair in the board.

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    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)


  20. #5320

    Re: [Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

    Arian, were you playing scape or thune?

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