[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[Qweerios]

I don't play dryad because it is terrible to draw, dies to Deed, and most of all, it is rarely better than waiting the extra turn for Explorer. I only play it in GB Nic Fit, and not always.

Dust Bowl is a good find indeed, I had not considered that card. I will promptly replace my singleton Wasteland with a Dust Bowl, thanks!

I think EE overlaps with Deed for its purpose. I know it seems a bit off to have most of my answers at 3 CMC, but it isn't very problematic. I don't see why I would want additional RUG hate considering I literally never lose to RUG. I play against RUG aproximately 3 times a week and it simply doesn't work out for RUG against Nic Fit, ever... EE, however, does make a fine engine with Academy Ruins and Primeval Titan. Definitely food for thoughts.

As for the statistics, I don't think much of them. 60% is fine with me. RtR will smooth out the early game a bit with Deathrite and Decay. I intend to try two of each and see how it goes from there.

[Justin]

I like the singleton Dryad Arbor for just about any deck that runs Green Sun's Zenith. Yes, it has negative synergy with Deed, but sometimes you need to accelerate your mana on turn one and don't want to wait a turn to fetch Explorer. Dryad plays well with Cabal Therapy as well. You can GSZ for Dryad on turn one and cast and flashback Therapy on turn two. If you don't run Dryad and GSZ for Explorer instead, you are not hitting them with Therapy until turn three. Against combo decks, this can make a huge difference. Obviously, this deck usually works best if Explorer is in your starting seven, but that won't always happen. It's worth giving Dryad Arbor a spot in your starting 60.

As an example, I won a game against SnT by using GSZ, Dryad, and Therapy as decribed above to rip away the opponent's Show and Tells on my turn two. I would have lost had I been forced to wait until turn three.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

Actually, funny thing goldfishing with this deck: actually pulled off a quadruple Cabal Therapy by turn 2.

Hand was:

2 lands
1 Vet Explorer
1 GSZ
2 Therapy
Something else.

Turn 1: Cabal Therapy
Turn 2: Veteran -> Cabal Therapy -> GSZ for Veteran -> Cabal Therapy x 2

So . . . I'm really against the idea that Dryad Arbor is worth even 1 spot in this deck, because as soon as turn 1 is over, it's a dead card more or less.

Also, seeing this "godhand" makes me realize how trivial other disruption is when Cabal Therapy does so much. Gonna remove Thoughtseize for something else: probably some more bombs.

[KMS]

For all BUG players intuition to 3x therapy often winst the game

Veteran explorer - hymn can put the opponent in topdeck mode. Hymn is a great one off maindeck.
And I also dont see a spot for the militant

The dryad arbor is good for me, even late game since im not running that many creatures, a recurring nightmare that resolves with dryad arbor is to sweet to cut

[eq.firemind]

Have anyone tried Caravan Vigil?
I use it as 1-of in my Diabolic Intent-focused BG list as additional ramp and it helps alot.
Even without Morbid it works okay since I often need to ramp from 5 to 6 lands after initial Explorer stuff, but fail to naturally draw and drop 4th land.

I also tested Starved Rusalka in different builds and it was totally worth its slot if you don't play Brainstorm.

[Justin]

For those of you that hate maindecking Dryad Arbor, perhaps you should consider putting one into the sideboard to bring in for a Forest for combo matchups. If you have a starting hand with GSZ (or Dryad Arbor) and Therapy, but no Explorer, having Dryad Arbor in your deck could be the difference between winning and losing.

[EpicLevelCommoner]

For those of you that hate maindecking Dryad Arbor, perhaps you should consider putting one into the sideboard to bring in for a Forest for combo matchups. If you have a starting hand with GSZ (or Dryad Arbor) and Therapy, but no Explorer, having Dryad Arbor in your deck could be the difference between winning and losing.

Actually, now that you mention the forest part, Dryad Arbor seems a lot better now. Not because of some Therapy interactions, but the fact that it's a forest gives even BG-straight builds 9 copies of it (1 Arbor itself, 4 Catacombs, and 4 GSZs). Not really impressive considering Arbor alone, but coupled with Recurring Nightmare, Therapy, or any kind of sac outlet, it can be potent mid-late game. Early game, it's a waste unless you're playing against combo.

[Arianrhod]

If you feel compelled to put Dryad Arbor in your deck, for the love of god put it in as a Spell, not as a Land. Even doing that, you're going to have games where you'll just straight lose because it essentially comes into play tapped. Yeah, it has nice synergies and all, Arbor has a ton of problems, too. This isn't Maverick where it allows GSZ to function as Hierarch 5-8. IMO the problems do not outweigh the benefits.

[Star|Scream]

thra1l

Try a sphinx of uthuun in place of consecrated.

[HoneyT]

Like Qweerios said, only play Dryad Arbor if G/B if at all. I only do sometimes in straight G/B. But for the sake of discussion for those interested in running it, lets look at the benefits and costs.

Pros:

-Can be used as acceleration with GSZ
-Is a fetchable/Zenithable Therapy body
-Suprise blocker
-Makes you Edict proof


Cons:

-Sucks to draw in your opening hand
-Anti-synergistic with Deed

Most arguments against it are because of Deed. Most of the time though, the times I've needed to Deed away an Arbor are completely irrelevent because either I'm screwing them over way more than myself or because I have plenty of mana availible anyway.

Overall, I feel most versions don't want it. However, for example, my latest G/B list ran one and uses it to great effect (it can be found on the previous page). It will screw you over in three color builds though. Just don't. If you do draw it in your opening hand you're gonna want to eat a gun. Some versions of G/B can make good use of it though. Feel free to try it out.

[Megadeus]

I've like dryad arbor in GB. I do always seem to have it in my opening hand though... Just being able to fetch up a blocker for a planeswalker is very nice sometimes. And therapy use. Edict I've only ever really liked it when I need to save my Thrun from my own innocent blood.

[exw]

Finally got a chance to play more legacy using the Scapeshift version of Nic Fit. I won (4-0) a small local Legacy thing last Tuesday (9/18/12). I had never played Legacy at this shop before, so I can't vouch for its competitiveness, but several people were playing top tier decks and seemed up on current events in Legacy. I made three changes to the deck that had been discussed earlier.

First, I cut a single Maelstrom Pulse from the main deck in favor of a Bonfire of the Damned. This was a change we discussed earlier and I have more experience with it now. The second change was removing the terrible Wickerbough Elder from the main deck. I went back to the third Huntmaster of the Fells and this was excellent all night. The third change was adding a Firespout to the sideboard in place of a Carpet of Flowers. I didn't need to wish for it all night. But I didn't face any tribal match-ups.

I have a quick little report if anyone is interested:

Round One: Russell (RUG delver)
Game one: I get too greedy with a Deed and die from 9 to triple lightning bolt.
Game Two: Counters my Scapeshift, unaware that the spell resolving would be his death. I Eternal Witness it back and get him with it.
Game Three: He forces a Deed and a Bonfire in the same turn leaving him unprotected from a Scapeshift the next turn.
1-0 (2-1 in games)

Round Two: Nick (GUWB Planeswalkers + Ramp?)
Not 100% sure on the archetype of this deck. Didn't seem too mainstream.
Game One: I keep a hand with multiple cabal therapies and Veteran Explorers but no black source. We durdle around for 4 or 5 turns until I find a black source where I then go completely off with Cabal Therapy. My first blind therapy nabs a pair of Force of Wills. He dies to Scapeshift.
I did use bonfire in this game to kill a Karn, Liberated on three and a pair of beast tokens from a Garruk Primal Hunter, so +1 a situation where Bonfire was better than a Maelstrom Pulse.
Game Two: I blind Therapy him turn two taking an Elspeth, Knight Errant one turn before he was due to slam it. He doesn't do anything relevant and a single Huntsmaster wins the match.
2-0 (4-1 in games)

Round Three: Ben (Junk)
Game One: I get huge value from a deed early and facing no pressure I get a easy Scapeshift win.
Game Two: His early Dark Confident reveals a white Leyline so I change my game plan to beat down. I am able to wish for a Pulse to take out the Leyline, but he casts another on his next turn. He then plays out a Sewer Nemesis (?) and bashes me down to 3. With things looking grim, I use Scapeshift and Valakut to wipe the creatures from his board and get in there with regular creature damage.
3-0 (6-1 in games)

Matt W. (Rug Delver)
Game One: I resolve a Deed through triple spell pierce and he concedes with no board and no gas.
Game Two: A perfect hand of Deed / Explorer / Top / Carpet of Flowers / Land / Land easily runs him over.

4-0 (8-1 in games)

I was never able to miracle Bonfire on the night, but it certainly seemed powerful every time I played it. I was very pleased to have it over Maelstrom Pulse on the night.

Also, Valakut is no longer banned in modern and Scapeshift shot up in price ~8 dollars. I'd like to think it is because people are beginning to notice this deck in Legacy though!

[Alexeezay]

I'm gonna run Scapewish nicfit on Sunday at a big local tournament, its 4 rounds modern(rg tron), 4 rounds legacy (scapewish).Top8 plays M13 Sealed.
I'll let you know how I went.Top8 gets Displays (RTR or M13), 1st gets 8 displays.

[litenkatt]

Ive been trying out the Scapewish deck for quite some time now and honestly - I can't say I like it too much. Biggest problem is having no fetch lands, I often find myself having the wrong lands and way to short of shuffle effects for sensei's divining top to be as effective as it can be.

Mostly I've been playing against reanimator, before board it's a really hard setup (80-20 to his favor). Im playing ooze MD but that's not enough. After sideboard however I board in duress, extirpate and REB which makes it a bit easier although its still hard.

I do think scapewish is overall a fine deck but I do believe the other versions are stronger.

This sunday I'm going with the classic GB deck. I'll make a report if I do well

[Cire_dk]

Ive been trying out the Scapewish deck for quite some time now and honestly - I can't say I like it too much. Biggest problem is having no fetch lands, I often find myself having the wrong lands and way to short of shuffle effects for sensei's divining top to be as effective as it can be.

Mostly I've been playing against reanimator, before board it's a really hard setup (80-20 to his favor). Im playing ooze MD but that's not enough. After sideboard however I board in duress, extirpate and REB which makes it a bit easier although its still hard.

I do think scapewish is overall a fine deck but I do believe the other versions are stronger.

This sunday I'm going with the classic GB deck. I'll make a report if I do well

I agree that the effectiveness of the version you play does depend on your meta. I have tested Scapewish a few times and I feel that it can be great when the board is stalled (which I find happens quite often.) Scapewish gives you a great finisher. REB is a nice added extra as well.
In general I think my rector list has more anwers in a random meta.

I am looking forward to your report and please also report if you do not well I learn more from my (many ) mistakes than from straight forward wins.

Good luck

[Justin]

If you feel compelled to put Dryad Arbor in your deck, for the love of god put it in as a Spell, not as a Land. Even doing that, you're going to have games where you'll just straight lose because it essentially comes into play tapped. Yeah, it has nice synergies and all, Arbor has a ton of problems, too. This isn't Maverick where it allows GSZ to function as Hierarch 5-8. IMO the problems do not outweigh the benefits.

I don't agree with any of this. Dryad Arbor replaces a land. It is not Maze of Ith. It still taps for mana. It does function as a Hierarch with you fetch it with GSZ for zero, because it accelerates your deck. The times in which Arbor costs you a game because it is "sick" are rare, and not as common as the times it wins you a game because of mana acceleration. The benefits clearly outweigh the costs.

[Arianrhod]

Ive been trying out the Scapewish deck for quite some time now and honestly - I can't say I like it too much. Biggest problem is having no fetch lands, I often find myself having the wrong lands and way to short of shuffle effects for sensei's divining top to be as effective as it can be.

Mostly I've been playing against reanimator, before board it's a really hard setup (80-20 to his favor). Im playing ooze MD but that's not enough. After sideboard however I board in duress, extirpate and REB which makes it a bit easier although its still hard.

I do think scapewish is overall a fine deck but I do believe the other versions are stronger.

This sunday I'm going with the classic GB deck. I'll make a report if I do well

I agree that the effectiveness of the version you play does depend on your meta. I have tested Scapewish a few times and I feel that it can be great when the board is stalled (which I find happens quite often.) Scapewish gives you a great finisher. REB is a nice added extra as well.
In general I think my rector list has more anwers in a random meta.

I am looking forward to your report and please also report if you do not well I learn more from my (many ) mistakes than from straight forward wins.

Good luck

This is pretty much spot-on. IMO, Rector is best if you don't know what meta you're going to be up against, because it generally has the most answers to the most potential problems. Scapewish is where you want to be if there's a low combo presence, and the goal of BUG is that you want to play BUG in a high combo meta (my goal for BUG, I should refine that statement). They're all for different situations and different metas. That's one of the reasons that I resist the idea of splitting the thread up -- while the different versions can be quite altered from one another as far as card choices go, they aren't actually different decks in my mind. Look at Survival (the most commonly alluded to example). Bant Survival, Ooze Survival, and Vengevine Survival were all three completely different -decks-, not just different versions of the same deck.

IMO skill with Nic Fit as an archetype includes choosing which build of the deck you want to play for an expected meta....kind of a deck selection within a deck selection. I mean, you can rip out half the wishboard to make Scapewish's reanimator matchup passable, but at that point why not just play a different version that has a stronger reanimator matchup? Obviously card availability is a question, but you can work towards a version that's actually good in your meta. I'm not convinced that some of the various versions' problem matchups are fixable without inordinate amounts of work, to the point where it starts to struggle with other things (see Scapewish vs reanimator)

I don't agree with any of this. Dryad Arbor replaces a land. It is not Maze of Ith. It still taps for mana. It does function as a Hierarch with you fetch it with GSZ for zero, because it accelerates your deck. The times in which Arbor costs you a game because it is "sick" are rare, and not as common as the times it wins you a game because of mana acceleration. The benefits clearly outweigh the costs.

You're certainly allowed to disagree. I merely state my experience with the card. I think I was ever glad to have it exactly once, in a game almost a year ago where I fetched with Nightmare onboard to loop Sun Titan for the win. It's been nothing but trash for me otherwise, and I haven't missed cutting it one bit. I can appreciate your argument that it's good to have against combo decks because it is a quicker Therapy enabler, but that's a corner case, and your matchups in general will be improved by not having it, because that can be a card in your deck that actually does something. There are very few fair decks where Zenithing for Arbor to accelerate is actually better than just waiting a turn to Zenith for Explorer...especially considering that t1 Therapy -> t2 Zenith for Explorer, flashback is a common line of play.

Again, despite your signature, you're entitled to your opinion. Damn near anyone in here will tell you that I have no problem agreeing to disagree =)

[Star|Scream]

@qweerios: Can I ask what you usually use as your main finisher in BUG without grave titan? I assume thragtusk or titan beats, but how often do you ultimate with jace? I know I should use Jace's +0 a lot more but sometimes controlling their top deck while grave titan or sphinx of uthuun goes to work is just better.

[Megadeus]

I have seen that a lot of the Time BUG ends up just beating with 2/2's. It is a fairly grindy control deck so it definitely makes sense.

[HoneyT]

Carsten Kotter put an article up on StarCity today with an interesting take on Nic Fit using Jarad's Orders for Loyal Retainers/fatty. Here's the link for reference:

http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...-The-City.html

Looks a little rough, but certainly viable with some fine-tuning.