What colors are you running, and what was in your board? Hive mind can be a very tough matchup. Did they have chalices, leyline of sanctity, or what post board? One of the main issues is presenting a relevant clock.
'I played the BUG Order version (- 2 Jace - 2 Seize + 4 Hymn) with 3 Duress 3 Negate and 2 Echoing Truth boarded for 3 NO 1 Prog 3 Deed and 1 Wall of Blossom.
Game 1 was iffy because i set him on Stoneblade with Flooded Strand, go. I hit a FoW with the Therapy but he topdecked Intuition for the win. Game 2 i locked him pretty hard with T1 Therapy, T2 Explorer FB Therapy into Hymn t3 Land Witnedd pick up Hymn and played Hymn into T4 Jace bouncing Witness for Hymn, taking the last cards away then fatesealing him out...
Well G3 he dropped T2 protected SNT (FoW'ed my T1 discard) and dropped Emrakul. No luck for me, had only 1 Zenith in hand at the time together with my Jace, so i couldn't drop double Enforcer to drop Jace after his attack which set me on 2. Man, that would have been kinda awesome :D
What are your thoughts on 3 Jace and 3 Liliana main?
I have not played the blue version vs. hive mind. Are you sure boarding out nopro is correct? It gives you an additional line of play vs. show and tell by having progenitus and 6 other permanents (though that is a corner case). Additionally, it is the fastest way the deck can win.
How did you anticipate your echoing truths working out?
I was able to trade for 4 liliana's this weekend and will be trying them out shortly.
The line of thought behind the NO Plan is that you can't win if you dont disrupt them hard, so i rather prefer going for Jace to Fateseal early or to go for a stream of Hymns via Witness. When plaing with Negate (which was pretty awesome) you don't really want to tap out for NO. Maybe Pulse can go out as well, keeping NO in, while boarding in Terastodon as well. E.Truth was in for fighting the Leyline which he always drew Turn 2 ;) but it's not that bad against other decks as well. Bouncing Witness, opposing Jaces, Germ token or anything else on the opposing side to follow up with a therapy is brutal.
How do you beat a resolved batterskull? I found really trouble to find a way to deal with.
Pulse or Deed + Therapy?
There are so many versions of this deck it is important so at least say your colors when asking how to beat batterskull. For the BGw version I have been using you can therapy/flash it back after they tutor for it with stoneforge. When we have enough mana deeds means they always have to play magic with 3 mana up to return it. Moat which can just ignore it, a batterskull, and a harmonic sliver.
Yes, sorry I didn't say what version I'm playing.
I'm in a WBG pod. My current list is:
/ Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [UNH] Forest
3 [UNH] Swamp
1 [UNH] Plains
2 [A] Bayou
2 [A] Savannah
// Creatures
4 [COM] Veteran Explorer
3 [FNM] Wall of Blossoms
1 [COM] Scavenging Ooze
3 [COM] Eternal Witness
2 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [EX] Spike Weaver
2 [UD] Academy Rector
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [MOR] Reveillark
1 [M12] Grave Titan
// Spells
4 [NPH] Birthing Pod
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
1 [EX] Recurring Nightmare
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
3 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
/ Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [NPH] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 mindslicer
SB: 1 wickerboug elder
SB: 2 [ISD] Liliana of the veil
SB: 2 [PT] Virtue's Ruin
A few things.
With misstep gone I think that STP is better than black removal with 2 casting cost. We are going to see more lackey's and stoping them from the begining is the right play. For that reason I made a split 2/2 bayou / savannah.
I'm currently not sure if is better sun titan or grave titan. The second one is the only I've got to play at tournament so I'm going to try it.
From the sideboard I'm not really sure if we really need virtue's ruin vs WG decks but I'm gona try.
If I didn't found any lilian of the veil I'll play with chocke but I think liliana is awsome vs combo and vs control and decks with few creatures cause can play to different roles in the game.
We'll see that saturday.
Edit: list was missing the fourth pod
I don't know why people playing Sensei's Divining Top. It's the best cards since the Mental Misstep ban and we can use them.
Today I'm testing a Podlist again.
// Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [R] Scrubland
3 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp
3 [CS] Snow-Covered Forest
2 [R] Bayou
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
1 [R] Savannah
2 [US] Phyrexian Tower
// Creatures
1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [MBS] Thrun, the Last Troll
3 [WL] Veteran Explorer
2 [FD] Eternal Witness
3 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [DDE] Bone Shredder
1 [MOR] Reveillark
1 [NPH] Phyrexian Metamorph
1 [NPH] Entomber Exarch
1 [UL] Deranged Hermit
1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
// Spells
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
3 [NPH] Birthing Pod
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AP] Pernicious Deed
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [M11] Duress
SB: 2 [PLC] Damnation
0 Academy Rector: He's very slow and lose vs each graveyard removal.
0 Recurring Nightmare: That's a misstake. I would play 1 but I can't cut any card:'( Can anyone help me?
0 Titan: Tao repeat my reallife comment with Birthing Pod works on CA and Witness + Exarch + Reveillark or hermit + metamorph win any game.
0 Hymn to Tourach: I prefer Thoughtseize on cc1 and only black instead double black manacosts. I hate games where i fetch 2 swamps and 1 forest in 3 turns. You need bb turn 2 and want to play explorer turn 1.
4 Sensei's Divining Top: It's the 4of tutor in this deck (zenith, explorer, fetch, pod). You have the CQ in lategames vs controldecks and can search your discard + pod or whatelse.
3 Thoughtseizes: look at Hymn comment + look at opponents hand -> easier to discard NO or Jace.
1 Pulse: I would like to play 2-3 but I haven't any slots. It's a cc3 removalspell -> swords to plowshares are faster. Pulse is my one out vs Jace otherwise i've 1 Thrun (4 zenith), 3 Pod (more CA than Jace), 7 discard (Hymns aren't savely discardspells)
3 Pod: They cost 3 mana and i can use it firstly turn 3 like a good draw. When i need them I can search it with Sensei's Divning Top.
What would you say about my minds?
What can I cut for 1 Recurring Nightmare? 1 Nightmare + 3 Pod +4 Top seem very great I my opinion.
So far
Rabrab
I've been testing this 4 Colour Gifts list lately. First tests show promising results, but of course there still has to be some finetuning.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
2 [US] Plains (4)
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [US] Swamp (3)
1 [PT] Island (2)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
3 [ZEN] Forest (1a)
1 [R] Tropical Island
2 [R] Bayou
1 [R] Savannah
1 [R] Scrubland
// Creatures
1 [M12] Phantasmal Image
2 [COM] Eternal Witness
4 [WL] Veteran Explorer
3 [SH] Wall of Blossoms
2 [M11] Sun Titan
// Spells
3 [INN] Liliana of the Veil
1 [ROE] Consuming Vapors
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
2 [CHK] Gifts Ungiven
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
1 [R] Regrowth
4 [R] Swords to Plowshares
2 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [EX] Recurring Nightmare
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 1 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [PLC] Damnation
SB: 3 [US] Duress
SB: 2 [M12] Timely Reinforcements
SB: 2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
I wish this list could settle soon, with Amsterdam coming up. :/
I really like the BUG NO-list but am lacking some card to test it, was game about testing the GBw list but I really don't like the pods.
But you people believe the BP-version of GBw is the strongest?
A friend and I made top8 and top4 in a small gpt to Amsterdam. Both played a UGW podlist like the one above.
The most important changes where that he played Go for the trhoat ( 2 ) and I played Swords to plowshares ( 3 ) . He played 23 lands and i played 21 in favour the third removal and one ooze .
We both had to play a mirror in the first round that he passed over me with better hand and draws. Then at the top8 I passed over him. The first game I stp'd grave titan and some other dudes and with ooze I ate the ones at the graveyard.
I'm feeling that the deck is really good but some draws are very slower and get controlled by blue players or get overruned by aggro players.
I've tried hym to tourach but I don't like it.
Equinozio: I'm really interested in decklists! GB? GBw? Hand me both! :)
I've been looking for an _updated_ post-misstep list thats either GBw or GB that can handle both aggro and combo well.
My deck list was this:
/ Lands
1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [UNH] Forest
3 [UNH] Swamp
1 [UNH] Plains
2 [A] Bayou
2 [A] Savannah
// Creatures
4 [COM] Veteran Explorer
3 [FNM] Wall of Blossoms
1 [COM] Scavenging Ooze
3 [COM] Eternal Witness
2 [SHM] Kitchen Finks
1 [EX] Spike Weaver
2 [UD] Academy Rector
1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
1 [MOR] Reveillark
1 [M12] Grave Titan
// Spells
4 [NPH] Birthing Pod
3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
1 [EX] Recurring Nightmare
3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [FNM] Cabal Therapy
3 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
2 [ARB] Maelstrom Pulse
/ Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [NPH] Phyrexian Revoker
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 loaming shaman
SB: 1 wickerboug elder
SB: 2 choke
SB: 2 [PT] Virtue's Ruin
I didn't have any liliana of the veil so I played with choke. And the loaming shaman should be mindslicer.
Is the same list of some posts above.
I like it, but it feels a bit slow with 2 Academy Rectors? 4th Pod over 4th Zenith feels weird too. But it's a nice base, thanks!
I don't the Zeniths at all in this archetype. As everybody, I played them a lot and I came to the conclusion it was harmful to the game plans. If you pay attention, you'll notice that the green creatures are only enablers that have to be played for their very cost. Also, Dryad Arbor is very anti synergistic with Deed. The strength of GSZ is generally to be an accelerator as much as a kill. In this deck, it does not adopt well either role.
To talk about Equinozio's list, I don't get exactly the reason for the second rector neither.
Zenith is a top-deck-war winner. If I have a destroyed pod or deed I zenith into witness. If i want creatures and life I get kitchenn. I have a swarm of dudes some times I want spikeweaver.Originally Posted by Maveric78f
I don't like to zenith for 0 unless I have a turn to Pod with more dudes and lands to being able to activate as soon as posible the pod. The best play in this deck is zenith for veteran. The dryad is the easier way we can active a regurring nightmare out of no where or begin a chain of pods ( slower I know ).
Being able to reach as soon as posible recurring nightmare activations is acheved by having to of them. But as I like to test new things to feel I I'm on the right cards I cutted one for a phyrexian metamorph.
We can deal more easier with cards like progenitus and emrakuls.
I've added a second phyrexian tower because I feel is the strongest card in the deck. I'd like to play four zeniths but for the moment I play only 3 cause I don't want to cut anything from the deck.
I like your reasoning, nice explanations. Especially when it comes to GSZ, that's also why I'd play 4 (cut the 4th pod).
I think 1 Rector and 1 Nightmare is enough, you can win without the Nightmare easily, anyway... It gives you insane reach lategame, but you don't need it very early.
Also, **** yes 2 Phyrexian Towers. Sick card. Although without Hymns (why have EVERYONE cut them?) maybe not as strong.
100% agree with Maveric78f on Zenith.
Yeah, it is versatile, but I just never want Witness for 4 mana, Explorer for 2 mana and so on.
I'm playing almost the same list posted in first pages and it still feels awesome:
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
4 Bayou
5 Forest
4 Swamp
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Wall of Blossoms
4 Eternal Witness
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Innocent Blood
1 Dismember
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Tendrils of Despair
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 mix of Beast Within/Maelstrom Pulse (now 2/1)
4 Pernicious Deed
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Karn Liberated
Sideboard
4 Duress
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Nature's Claim
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Kitchen Finks
The latest addition is Beast Within. Only Sorcery-speed removal was week part and it is now solved. 3/3 is not a problem since I run Innocent Blood and full 4 Deeds. And you can EOT kill your own Explorer with it.
Sideboard is not set in stone, but I want to fight Storm (Duress), Hive Mind (Duress, Nature's Claim), GY strategies (Extraction), Prog and Emmy (Edict), Jace (Duress, Pulse). Finks are for aggro strategies, but with Misstep banned Jace.decks became less popular so Pulse could turn into 2nd Finks or faster removal.
At this point I don't see reasons to splash third color. This deck can do anything I want with green and black only.
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way.
Man... A quick second reply here.
That GB list is awesome, although playing it would make me miss Swords very much... But Innocent Blood feels great so maybe... I like the 1 off Tendrils of Despair, maybe fit a 1 off Diabolic Intent in there too!
The only problem I have with Garruk as a wincon is that you have to draw it, but this list is built around that, I guess.
Another problem I have with that list is that it feels way more dependant on a good starting hand, to be able to control your way into the draws you need (with 0 pods 0 GSZ), but again... It's BUG without the U, I guess thats what it's built to do.
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