I brought Nicfit to a local tourney last weekend, I was too tired and busy to make a tourney report right away..so here we go ...and managed to take it to top 8
103 players
THE LIST
CREATURES (14)
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Sun Titan
1 Grave Titan
SPELLS (23)
1 Batterskull
4 Green Sun’s Zenith
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Diabolic Intent
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vindicate
PLANESWALKERS (3)
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Primal Hunter
LANDS (21)
4 Verdant Catacomb
3 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
SIDEBAORD
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Tormod’s Crypt
2 Extirpate
2 Choke
2 Damnation
4 Duress
1 Gaddock Teeg
--------------------------
Took Nicfit to top 8. Got 2nd at the swiss with a 6-1 record, but lost the first round of the top 8 eliminations.
Round 1 -Maverick
Game 1 -(loss) I immediately mulligan to 5..without seeing any lands, or off color lands...Lost to a quick Kotr..
Game 2 -(loss) I have a good hand of 3 fetches pernicious deed and damnation, swords... but immediately lost to a 2nd turn mindcensor, where in I could not fetch into a plains... then I go down the drain with 2 fetches fetching nothing... I lose...
Notes -- I should have expected the mindcensor, as it was already running at the back of my head, I should have gone for the plains in the start...as I didn't really need a basic swamp at that particular moment.
Record 0-1
ROUND 2 - Ledless dredge
Game 1- (win)a sigh of relief as soon as I see him playing dredge, as I have actually expected to go against dredge..I quickly win the game with an ooze...
Game 2- (win)Ooze , teeg , tormods and diabolic intent to another tormods, wins me the game while also removing all his bridges..
Record 1-1
ROUND 3 - Dredge with LED
Game 1 - (win)an early ooze wins me the game again, since he couldn't dredge the first few turns into something significant..
Game 2- (win)I have no gravehate, but I got to set up an early deed, then an explorer to sun titan... which gets back deed.. then a teeg to help me keep dread return at bay..
Record 2-1
ROUND 4 High Tide
Game 1 - (win)I have no idea what he was playing, but as soon as I see him dropping his basic island, I put him in combo... I have a good hand of 2 therapies and liliana, ooze... which rips his hand apart... I sac ooze to therapy just to make sure he has no counter spell for liliana.
Game 2 - (win) Every other creature control cards go out as well as veteran explorer, I even put nihil spell bomb in just to get a free draw when need be... Duress, cabal therapy, then choke rips his hand and slows him down...Vindicate on a land , then dropped teeg .followed by a spell bomb.. which drew me a liliana... for the win...
Record 3-1
Notes -- The win condition is really slow,but its nice to see that liliana can constantly control an opponents hand to be able to stop him from rebuilding it... I was able to use both ultimates of liliana for both games...
ROUND 5-- Ant
Game 1 --(win) He miscalculates his mana as I have already taken out his LED.
Game 2 --(loss) he comboes off with past in flames.. but time is called..
Game 3 -- (win) I decided not to play game 3 and just take the draw since time was already called and we haven't even shuffled yet..There was no chance in hell I was going to win game 3 anyway... however he just gave me the win because his kids were already waiting... and It seems that he was disappointed about his miscalculations during game 1. Nice guy.. he said he'd rather give me the win than have both of our chances dwindle...so he wished me luck and told me to get to the top 8..
Record 4-1
Note - Here i was seemingly just blessed that he was nice enough to give me the win.
ROUND 6 - RUG
Game 1- I get pressured , but I get the chance to deed away his board, I win the game with liliana and batterskull.
Game 2 - I was down to 3 with no blockers, but time was called... so its 1-0
REcord -5-1
ROUND 7 -reanimator
Game 1 - He mulligans to 4... but doesn't show what deck he was playing, no matter if I used liliana... and so..
Game 2- I have no idea what he was playing, I put him on esperblade so I didn't side in anytihing...Lost due to a surprise reanimate on Gin.. and that was over..
Game 3- He mulligans to 4 again...which spelled his doom... Time was called early, but again, the guy was nice enough to let me finish the game...
Record 6-1
Notes- this deck takes quite sometime to win...
2nd place after 7 rounds of swiss
TOp 8.. I get paired with No 7...
Affinity
I thought to myself.. finally a good match up, but don't get over confident, as affinity has a way of being fast and the furious...
Game 1 - Nicfit does what it does well, get basics.. and deed a way the entire board...
Game 2- I get stuck on 3 land, with needles naming deed... I manage to pulse the needle. but it was just o late to save me....even when I have 2 deeds at hand...
Game 3--I get stuck on 2 lands and birds of paradise....a needle coming down on deed again.. he natures claim my sensei, to make me choose between fetching lands with explorer.. or letting my sensei shuffle in the deck... I choose to keep sensei... I never find my 4th land and 5th land...and he wins via Tezz....
Note-- I was given the choice of fetching 2 basics which would give me 5 land, but not much in hand. I think I needed the sensei more than the lands specially with the pressure... which i still stand by now.. But who knows really...
OVER ALL -- I was entirely blessed that I won bad match ups and lost to good match ups...
FINAL NOTES ---
First of all , I am so used to playing junk , and white is my favorite color, but for this deck, I don't think white is needed at all.. Consistency is more important.. Having to decide when you need white or black, or double colors will give your deck inconsistencies... being vulnerable to wasteland is also an issue of a 3 color list...
However if you would really want white in the deck, I would suggest only a very light splash, maybe just for stp, and other sb cards.
Most of my losses came from land problems... Getting stuck in 2-3 lands is very bad for this deck.
I don't think 6 cc creatures are needed in this deck.. staying within the confines of 4-5 cc creatures keeps me safe within my lands reach... or maybe if there is even a way to win with planes walkers instead
Diabolic intent was good as it served as a tutor for cards when i needed it.. If I do switch to a green black list, I would probably consider raising this to 2 pcs, and adding more sacrificial creatures.
I deck wins in a slow fashion.. and is not good at times.. I think we need to add faster win conditions...
I think Gb is the way to go...
Last edited by f|i[p]; 04-27-2012 at 12:37 PM. Reason: typo
Congrats on your finish!
Could you post a Gb list that you would use at a future event?
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
3 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sun Titan
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Kodama of the North Tree
1 Grave Titan
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Dismember
3 Swords to Plowshares
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Sensei's Divining Top
My last list. Recurring Nightmare was amazing, as was Master of the Wild Hunt. Kodama of the North Tree is the answer to all my lingering souls + jace problems. Thrun isn't that good, but i'm not sure if i want to cut it for Sigarda. Gaddock Teeg allows me to stop Dread Return and some combo decks a bit easier. Not been dissapointed yet. I've not used Garruk, Primal Hunter yet, but i'm intrigued.
As for sideboard:
2 Choke
3 Engineered Plague
4 Duress
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Krosan Grip
1 Kitchen Finks
Not sure if this is good enough though, it's just a draft so far :).
I've been trying this list for a few weeks now, and I find myself having a lot of trouble winning. Before this I was running a similar list that was BG and had almost identical issues I'm having right now.
My biggest issue is that, if I don't kill a veteran explorer within the first 3 turns of the game I feel awfully behind--the deck itself has very little interaction with the opponent in the first few turns so they have no reason to really overextend. I find that stoneblade players who play excessively passive against me are incredibly difficult to beat. Furthermore, handing them a jace on their untap is quite brutal.
So that leads me to be wary of hands that don't involve an explorer + some way to kill it. In each set, I lost a game to being unable to kill my explorer because they had a flying creature with something attached to it.
Primeval Titan thus far has never lived to swing and if he did he could have been virtually any other creature and still accomplished the same goal. Treetop villages are in the same vein (the number of times I've heard "Snapcaster plow, wasteland" is frustrating). It's also sketchy having 3 sources of green mana that can't tap the turn they come into play and 2 colorless sources. I've had to ship enough hands that were Phyrexian Tower + Treetop or Dryad to warrant skepticism.
I've currently had to win off the back of a thrun moreso than any other creature in the deck. In fact, as a general statement, most games I win revolve exclusively around landing a thrun and bombing the board with deeds and pulses until the coast is clear and going in again. Titan is something I rarely even get enough mana to ramp into and by the time I have 7 mana to GSZ for him they often have some kind of unused either removal or counter that they haven't had to / been unable to use due to land flood or hexproof..
I'm currently in the process of trading for the lands to move into GBw, splashing for potentially swords, sigarda, qasali, and some vindicates. Alternative Path to Exile may be pretty relevant, given that after 1 explorer most decks run out of basics to fetch.
I want to drop wickerbough elder, titan, the manlands, and get some more targeted removal in there + another hard to deal with beater. Between thrun, kodama, and sigarda that's 3 hexproof/shroud beaters.
Alternatively, I have the manabase for jund, and red actually offers a surprising number of useful things. For one, broodmate dragon is in my opinion better than primeval titan. It flies and it's harder to fully deal with. Pyrostatic Pillar is absurdly good against combo. Burn is very good against planeswalkers. Ancient Grudge is absurdly good against equipment. Red elemental blast is pretty good against blue.
I think you're spot on with your assessment.
I don't understand why Primeval was put in the deck in the first place. At 6 mana you can cast anything you want. What does it actually offer? Why not play Grave Titan instead, if you want to play a titan? I put Grave Titan in my (BG) deck and it's amazing.
I replaced Wickerbough Elder with Viridian Shaman. There aren't that many enchantments (we want to get rid off anyway, it's mostly artifacts (equipments) I mean it takes 6 mana if you want to search for it with GSZ and activate it. And if push comes to shove there's always Pulse.
My list:
Creatures (13)
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Spiritmonger
1 Grave Titan
Instant/Sorcery (16)
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Maelstrom Pulse
Artifact/Enchantment (7)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Recurring Nightmare
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands (22)
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Bayou
4 Swamp
4 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
I'm still debating on a few things:
I'm contemplating adding Volraths Stronghold but I'm not sure yet if it's really needed.
I want to add another Phyrexian Tower. I figure the deck wants to maximize it's chance of being able to sac Veteran Explorer. And it makes a turn 2 Spirit Mongers possible.
I'm not sure if I want to keep Kitchen Finks in.
I'm thinking of changing Inquisition of Kozilek into Thoughtseize or just don't play them at all and only run Cabal Therapies. This will open 2 or 3 spots for the first 2 changes.
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Spiritmonger really shouldn't be in this deck. I don't think it's possible to warrant his inclusion over another 5cmc beater. At his very best he gets around swords of x and y shenanigans and that's about it.
I dislike the lack of Kokusho here, and I feel that if you're using non-green 6-drops, Fierce Empath is a pretty good dude, since it lets you GSZ for them. Shaman actually seems like a perfectly respectable replacement for Qasali in straight GB lists. I've always thought Wickerbough is vastly too expensive for this deck (and that's saying something). I also agree with Kich; I don't like Spiritmonger here. Blade decks are becoming significantly less common in the meta, and that's the only matchup where he might possibly shine. I'd make those two slots either Kodama + Kokusho or Kokusho + Empath. Looping someone out with Nightmare has won me many games, and it's an incredibly efficient wincon. It's worth remembering that Nightmare is immune to enchantment destruction (even Krosan Grip) if you're smart with it. Literally the only way they can get rid of it is by discard or counterspells, and even then you can get it back later with a Witness.
As far as your planned changes -- I took Finks out a while back, and never missed him yet. Actually, I missed him exactly once, but that was a corner case. I've never run Volrath's since the earliest versions of the deck, and I've never even thought about it. If you're running out of gas with this deck, you're doing it wrong. Volrath is like the 8th level "just in case" plan. Totally unnecessary IMO. As far as the discard goes, what does your sideboard look like? Targeted discard + surgicals is pretty much the only out GB has to combo, so you want to make sure you have enough between main and board. If you cut them and have the room to spare, you might want to try out some of RichardCheese's technology -- Dungrove Elder. You have 9 Forest type lands, and it would be pretty good vs RUG. Maverick would probably just chump+mom it all day, but I guess you can't have everything. It's worth a thought, I think, at the least.
Elder is something I've definitely given thought to. I'm honestly just very skeptical of six drops as a general statement at this point. Kokusho loops are one thing, but six drop beaters almost never seem relevant--of them, Grave Titan is definitively the best I've encountered. Primeval Titan often feels underwhelming, getting more lands is never necessary and the manlands are garbage, but deathtouch and flooding the field with dudes is. They are also untapped, which was relevant last night. Treetop villages have never impacted the game and almost always die when they attack.
Personally, I'd rather not aim for massive late-game beaters because I feel that without shroud or hexproof they just aren't worth it, I'll give it a shot with fierce empath and grave titan however. I would much prefer to just play kodama / sigarda / thrun as my win cons and use a gross amount of removal to control the board state.
I actually like the way you phrased that, and I agree with it. That also explains my dislike of Grave Titan -- 6-drops in this deck need to DO something. Sun Titan enables degeneracy, and Kokusho loops FTW. They don't generally beat down (well, sometimes). But they are not "beatdown" win conditions, like my 5-drops are. That's an argument I can get behind, not just arbitrarily stating that "6-drops are bad, MMK." I like "if your 6-drop doesn't do anything, it's bad" much better. Like, with Grave Titan, all it does it make two small dudes. I mean yeah, it's a fast clock and all, but I like Sigarda, Kodama, and even Thrun better for that. I actually realized this at the last Jupiter event, where I won probably 75% of my games at least with Baneslayer, NOT with my 6's. I think you're exactly right -- 5's are the win conditions for the deck. 6's are what break the game wide open to enable your 5's to go through (Titan + Deed, Titan + Witness, Titan + Qasali, etc). Or it's a backup wincon, like Kokusho looping.
Thanks !
I haven't really decided on a Gb list yet..if ever I do I will make sure there is around 3 liliana in there and the basic stuff... I might put in diabolic intent, as well as try the new creatures from the new set, or persecutor somewhere in there.. but the basic list will be good enough I think.. i will just cut out all the 6 cc cards.. and leave thrun and kodama as finishers...
However I will try the Gbw list still, but less reliant on white... as I think the meta will be more control or rug and mav.. I will put the 3 shroud creatures, the new angel, thrun and kodama...with added swords to plowshare and pridemage as my only white cards.. the rest will be in the sideboard...
@Arianrhod
Being deep into the white splash.. have you ever tried Yosei instead of kokusho .. I have tried him and he locks up most decks and wins games as well...? however.. it doesn't change the fact that it is a slow win con...
Grave Titan worked really well for me but I actually never thought about Kokusho, I'll try that out with Fierce Empath for a while. I'm also actually running a Deranged Hermit over a TOP, I missed that one when I posted my list. But now that I think of it I want a third Top.
I'll take out 1 Kitchen Finks, 1 Grave Titan 1 Inquisition of Kozilek for 1 TOP, 1 Kokusho, 1 Fierce Empath. I could also take out the second Inquisition for Dungrove Elder.
I'll keep in my Spritmongers for a while because I like them so far but I will keep Kodama in mind.
My sideboard was this based on my local the metagame analysis:
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Pernicious Deed
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Extirpate
2 Darkblast
3 Krosan Grip
Predicted metagame: 1x Maverick, 1x Combo Elves, 1x Burn, 2x Merfolk, 1x Zoo, 2x Canadian ********, 2x Stoneblade, 1x (LED) Dredge, 1x unknown deck.
Actual metagame: 1x BUGw Color Control, 2x Canadian ******** , 2x Esper Stone Blade, 1x Hulk Rebirth, 1x Maverick, 1x Burn, 1x Combo Elves, 2x Merfolk, 1x Zoo, 1x Poison Affinity, 1x LED Dredge, 1x W/B Stoneblade, 1x Rock Control
EDit: One more question. Is Kodama's butt not a bit to small? (4 toughness)
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
And what about all those times you do lose because those damned things come into play tapped when you need them to be 'regular' lands?
Quit playing Legacy but could still play Goblins (Rgw, Rg, Rw, Rb)
ジェームス・ブラウン
I'm staring in the mirror looking at my biggest rival.
Same. I run an almost identical list just -1 garruk, -1 kodama+thrun and +3 Percy and duress instead of innocent blood. The only time he doesn't justify a scoop is when your opponent has StpS AND double waste/port. Also, if you get to untap and fetch a volraths stronghold+phyrexian tower and your opponent already blew wastes on treetops, you have to try really hard to lose.
They are awesome. I win games where I control the board with deeds + other removal and just do 20dmg with treetops. If you are doing just GB, treetops are amazing with prime titan. You should try them.
I lose often with it against stoneblade. At that point in the game they don't bother wasting bayou's. The play is usually: brainstorm, fetch, draw, swords titan. Waste a treetop.
Either that or it's snapcaster swords > waste treetop. So I spend 6-7 mana for a 3/3 trampling manland who can't swing through a batterskull or anything with a jitte on it.
-- Architect, what removal are you running? I'm running 3 pulses, 3 deeds, 3-4 innocent bloods, and I find I am rarely if ever able to actually do that. My treetops get wasted or trade with mishra's or just get sworded etc.
It may be win-more, but I've been trying Qweerios's build without titan/treetop + kokusho,empath,recurring nightmare.
Recurring nightmare plus any of our creatures is just LUDAcris. Like sac explorer to get witness to get explorer, replay nightmare to sac explorer to get explorer. Same with finks.
Please try Carpet of Flowers. I run 3 and board out all but 1 explorer against anything with an island. It's funny to see opponents waste their own lands.
Also Kitchen Finks is great against anything with a mountain. Burn is very much winnable if you can land one of these or an ooze.
I am running 3 pulses, 3 deeds, 2 Darkblasts, 3 lilys, 2-3 Duresses (takes swords) and in the SB: 2 IoKs and Night of soul's betrayal and 3 massacres. So if they double waste, and StpS your primetime you just 3 for 1 them. If they have Jitte or Bskull, you should deal with that before you try to win with prime.
I am not a fan of thrun, I dont know why people still play him. Is he supposed to be good against UWx? He just gets chumped by spirit tokens, snappys, or worse bskull all day. Kodama is good not bad but still nothing compared to prime titan.
Also, I run 3 percys and only play them after I have duressed/IoK/therpy'd all their removal away. I think my win strategy is different from what a lot of you doing. I rape their hand of removal and then drop a fast clock (percy/prime) and if they topdeck a swords, just drop another threat. Many of you are playing things like Thrun or Kodama or even hermit druid to try to blank their removal, on paper it looks like a good idea, but the reality is, besides sigarda, those shrouded creatures just dont win. Sure they dont get removed but a thrun is hardly even worth wasting a StpS on if he didnt have hexproof. Hes smaller than most goyfs. Kodama gets blocked and dies easily and hermit druid is too mana intensive.
This is just a general problem with stoneblade. They are a tougher matchup for us. They have basics and do just as scary things with them as we do. AND they they get better card advantage and can answer just about anything we throw at them in some way. If that primetitan was a thrun they could just keep throwing snappys under the bus or just drop a bskull and stabilize. At least with primetitan the best thing they can do is still a 3 for 1.I lose often with it against stoneblade. At that point in the game they don't bother wasting bayou's. The play is usually: brainstorm, fetch, draw, swords titan. Waste a treetop.
Either that or it's snapcaster swords > waste treetop. So I spend 6-7 mana for a 3/3 trampling manland who can't swing through a batterskull or anything with a jitte on it.
I dropped phyrexian arena from list a while ago, but I dont think I had lost a game where I stuck that against UW. You win any attrition wars with that card out. It might be worth considering adding it back in.
I think the biggest thing is the deep seeded emotional understanding that the right play is the right play regardless of outcomes. The ability to make a decision 5 straight times, lose 5 times because of it, and still make it the 6th time if it's the right play. - Jon Finkel
"Notions of chance and fate are the preoccupation of men engaged in rash undertakings."
Strategy question:
Game 1 against a blind deck
on the play with a bayou and a fetch, explorer, cabal therapy
Which land do you play? If you fetch, do what do you fetch?
Do you play the veteran turn 1 or wait till turn 2? Do you ever blind therapy?
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