[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

[moseby]

I respectfully disagree. If you are dealing with an unknown quantity I would prefer to go T1 explorer, T2 swing, therapy, therapy. At least you know what colour(s) they are playing base on their first land they play. If they don't play a land you will be able to tell what they are playing based on the card they discard.


To those playing recurring nightmare Koku how often have you been able to kill people with repeating it? If so are you running straigh B/G or splashing

[TheArchitect]

Strategy question:

Game 1 against a blind deck

on the play with a bayou and a fetch, explorer, cabal therapy

Which land do you play? If you fetch, do what do you fetch?

Do you play the veteran turn 1 or wait till turn 2? Do you ever blind therapy?

I would go bayou>blind therapy (brainstorm) on turn one.

Unless your against like RUG or burn, dont drop explorer when you could blind therapy brainstorm. They will often just StpS explorer, or combo out on you.


However, I also run duress so I often go turn 1 duress. Turn 2 therapy>explorer>flashback therapy. All 3 discard hit something this way.

[Nelis]

I wouldn't play Veteran explorer turn one, you don't want it sworded.

I'd go forest (maybe Bayou) and do nothing, wait to see what the opponent plays, and next turn go Therapy, Explorer, flashback Therapy.

But maybe go blind and saying Brainstorm is actually better, I'm not sure.

[TheArchitect]

I wouldn't play Veteran explorer turn one, you don't want it sworded.

I'd go forest (maybe Bayou) and do nothing, wait to see what the opponent plays, and next turn go Therapy, Explorer, flashback Therapy.

But maybe go blind and saying Brainstorm is actually better, I'm not sure.

If they have a brainstorm, they are going to blank AT LEAST your first therapy by brainstorming in response. Unless I have nothing to do with 3 lands, and am more worried about them untapping with 3-4 lands, I would do the therapy first turn.

[Nelis]

But if they decide to Brainstorm then them fetching basics because of Veteran Explorer will shuffle their best cards away. Unless they opt not to search for two basics but that's also good for us.

Besides you have much more information if you wait for their first turn. You could always opt not to sac veteran explorer if you expect it to go wrong based on their first turn play.

No, I definately would not go blind on Brainstorm

[Arianrhod]

I blind on Brainstorm a fair bit. Blue players have a horrible tendency of keeping mediocre hands like land, brainstorm, card card card card, and it feels really good to punish them. Combo players are even worse with this. My preferred turn 1 is always Top, without question. If I can't do that, I Therapy, and if I can't do either, I'll drop Explorer. The only time this changes is if I have like land, Explorer, Tower, 4-5drop. In that event, I always lead with Explorer, pray, pass turn, and then hopefully Tower, sac, do stupid things. At the same time, keep in mind that as a Therapy deck, scouting is actually pretty important. If you walk around the room a few times between rounds, you'll improve your blind therapies a lot because chances are you'll know what half the room is playing.

RE@Moseby -- I kill with Kokusho probably something like 1/8-1/4 of my games. Nightmare usually gets used a lot more frequently, especially with Witnesses, but the Kokusho kill doesn't always occur because sometimes it's unnecessary -- if they're already dead from something else, there's no reason to show off with it and have them board in graveyard hate. It's still a pretty potent weapon to have in your arsenal, though, and has definitely won me games when nothing else could.

Also, to whoever asked a few pages back, I have run Yosei in the past, but eventually cut him. He was my 3rd six-drop, which felt a little bit much at times. When examining which one to cut at the time, I looked at each very careful. Sun Titan breaks games wide open, and if not answered immediately presents both a rapid clock and a robust defense, while also doing things like Deeding every turn, Witnessing every turn, and so on. Kokusho provides an alternate win if you're locked out behind something weird like Ensnaring Bridge + Karmic Justice, as well as also getting around things like Solitary Confinement, as it doesn't stop life loss, only damage. Yosei can lock down board states indefinitely, but what I quickly discovered was that of these cards, Yosei actually isn't a win condition at all. It's a potent lockdown effect, but you still need something else to go with him to actually win the game, and while he can get you out of a lot of tough spots, it's usually better to run a card in his place that stops you from getting into those spots at all.

[Tao]

Strategy question:

Game 1 against a blind deck

on the play with a bayou and a fetch, explorer, cabal therapy

Which land do you play? If you fetch, do what do you fetch?

Do you play the veteran turn 1 or wait till turn 2? Do you ever blind therapy?

T1: My line would be play Fetchland, immediately crack it for Forest to get around both Stifle and Wasteland, go.

T2: varies depending on what land and maybe what spell they played and what else is in my hand. But naming Brainstorm with the first Therapy is a very common play even if they do have Mana open and didn't respond. It is a Mind game that favors them but there is not much of an alternative because it is too devastating if they are left with a Brainstorm for the Flashback.

[Kich867]

T1: My line would be play Fetchland, immediately crack it for Forest to get around both Stifle and Wasteland, go.

T2: varies depending on what land and maybe what spell they played and what else is in my hand. But naming Brainstorm with the first Therapy is a very common play even if they do have Mana open and didn't respond. It is a Mind game that favors them but there is not much of an alternative because it is too devastating if they are left with a Brainstorm for the Flashback.

This would most likely be my play as well, now that I think about it (considering this is what I tend to do anyways). On the flip side, fetching for a swamp and going blind on brainstorm can be pretty powerful.

[Star|Scream]

Seems to me one turn one blind play has to be better than the others. We really should figure it out.

[RaNDoMxGeSTuReS]

Seems to me one turn one blind play has to be better than the others. We really should figure it out.

Forest, go.

[Julian23]

You really should not be playing Veteran Explorer on turn1 when you've got a Cabal Therapy in hand. Chances are, your opponent will StP it and you're in bad shape.

T1: Bayou, Therapy
T2: Forest, Explorer, Flashback Therapy w/o passing priority.

Win. Even if your Bayou gets wasted.

[Nelis]

T2: varies depending on what land and maybe what spell they played and what else is in my hand. But naming Brainstorm with the first Therapy is a very common play even if they do have Mana open and didn't respond. It is a Mind game that favors them but there is not much of an alternative because it is too devastating if they are left with a Brainstorm for the Flashback.

Yes, you're right, Brainstorm it is when facing (non merfolk) blue.

[Tao]

You really should not be playing Veteran Explorer on turn1 when you've got a Cabal Therapy in hand. Chances are, your opponent will StP it and you're in bad shape.

T1: Bayou, Therapy
T2: Forest, Explorer, Flashback Therapy w/o passing priority.

Win. Even if your Bayou gets wasted.

What do you name with Therapy? What makes a blind Therapy better than just passing turn 1?

[Julian23]

Disabling Brainstorm by naming it blindly.

[Koby]

Disabling Brainstorm by naming it blindly.

Yep, pretty good chance your opponent is playing Brainstorm (65%) , or is playing Maverick (20%). The other 15% you should be able to beat no?

[Julian23]

When I first heart of this, I was like "Dude, wtf, rly?" but this came from the guy (Michael "Wuaschti" Thiel, recent finalist of GP Turin) who's basically been playing this deck since around 2007, so I figured there might be more merits to it than I thought.

[AngryTroll]

I know that space is tight, but I'm surprised that Shriekmaw hasn't been discussed for the deck. I searched the thread for mentions of the elemental, but saw zero discussion. The 1B cost is perfect after a Veteran Explorer, and the 4B cost crams a few extra high-cc plays into the removal slots.

The removal spells that compete with Shriekmaw have the advantage of being Instant speed, but that's about it. Against Maverick, RUG, and Stoneblade, the fact that Shriekmaw is a Terror instead of a Doom Blade or Go for the Throat is irrelevant; Shriekmaw always kills Knight of the Reliquary (besides Mother of Runes), which Dismember can't always do. Finally, there's synergy with Volrath's Stronghold.

Am I missing a big detail somewhere?

[Koby]

Am I missing a big detail somewhere?

I've been tinkering around with Fleshbag marauder, so I'm thinking along the same lines with you on Shriekmaw. I prefer Fleshbag due to its synergy in Sun Titan builds.

[Star|Scream]

I know that space is tight, but I'm surprised that Shriekmaw hasn't been discussed for the deck. I searched the thread for mentions of the elemental, but saw zero discussion. The 1B cost is perfect after a Veteran Explorer, and the 4B cost crams a few extra high-cc plays into the removal slots.

The removal spells that compete with Shriekmaw have the advantage of being Instant speed, but that's about it. Against Maverick, RUG, and Stoneblade, the fact that Shriekmaw is a Terror instead of a Doom Blade or Go for the Throat is irrelevant; Shriekmaw always kills Knight of the Reliquary (besides Mother of Runes), which Dismember can't always do. Finally, there's synergy with Volrath's Stronghold.

Am I missing a big detail somewhere?

Like instead of Innocent blood as a 2 of?

It's not GSZable so you'd need some number greater than 1.

[Zand]

What do people typically name on a t1 Therapy against Maverick? I've been naming Green Sun's Zenith mostly, it has seemed pretty good so far.