Page 3 of 15 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 293

Thread: Blue needs a Nerf

  1. #41
    Amen, brotha.
    Nidd's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2009
    Location

    Bamberg / Franconia / Bavaria / Germany
    Posts

    615

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Solar Ice View Post
    That's news to me. I don't think that I've ever sided out FoW against anything. Care to elaborate on the MUs that it's sided out in?
    Against Zoo, for example. You basically don't want it against MUs which end up being a slugfest because FoW costs you 2 cards most of the time.
    This looks like a job for me.

    Most of my posts will be written from my phone, so please excuse the eventual lack of proper typing.

  2. #42
    *
    DarthVicious's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2010
    Location

    Central NY
    Posts

    358

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    B/R
    Instant
    Split Second
    Players can't draw cards this turn.

    Or something like this

    R/G R/G
    Enchantment
    Cannot be countered.
    If a player controls any islands, that player can't play spells unless it's their turn.

  3. #43

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by troopatroop View Post
    I'm sorry, Your comments are devolving at a steady pace. For the same cost, cast a Jace. Control hates that too. You think this is news?
    There was a time Jace was considered a bad card.

    Then people tested it.

  4. #44
    Light 'da fuse!
    overpowered's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    Douglas, MA
    Posts

    52

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Jace vs Thrun is an unfair comparison. Both of you shut up before this thread devolves furth... oh, we're talking about banning brainstorm and force of will. Never mind! Talk about whatever you'd like!

    FoW is fine. Brainstorm is fine. YES these cards are powerful. So is a 3/3 for one green. So is a 4/4 for 2GG that can't be countered or targeted. So is Pernicious Deed, Hymn to Tourach and Swords to Plowshares. So is Elspeth. So is Moat.

    Just talk about the format please, don't compare cards unjustly. This thread isn't about card comparison... it's about card suggestions, the format and someone's opinion regarding blue needing a nerf.

  5. #45
    I like Tacos.
    dahcmai's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2006
    Location

    Traverse City, MI
    Posts

    2,202

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    I had a chuckle at those comments. Thrun is maindeck in that GW aggro as I mentioned. He's a heck of a green sun's target. He's turned out fairly decent so far. It was also in the 4th place deck of Bazaar of Moxen in the main. He's no slouch. I actually tested Blurred Mongoose also and Thrun took his main spot. I'd say he's here to stay.

  6. #46
    Vintage

    Join Date

    Apr 2005
    Location

    West Coast Degeneracy
    Posts

    5,135

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    I also like Karakas/Vendilion Clique against said blue decks. It's also sick in response to Standstill from the control player, and beats the snot out of ground-locked SFM decks.

    Can the blue decks deal with KotR backed with MM? Just a thought...
    West side
    Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
    * Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
    My Legacy stream
    My MTG Blog - Work in progress

  7. #47
    Member
    the_ob3lisk's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2010
    Location

    Hartford CT
    Posts

    28

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by menace13 View Post
    They need to BAN anyone who even thinks of banning Brainstorm.

  8. #48
    Clergyman of Cool
    lordofthepit's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2009
    Location

    Daisy Hill Puppy Farm
    Posts

    1,954

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    B/R
    Instant
    Split Second
    Players can't draw cards this turn.
    Sounds like a lot of fun on Isochron Scepter. Exactly the type of game I'm sure WotC would like to promote.

  9. #49
    Member
    perm's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2009
    Location

    altered states of america
    Posts

    630

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Force of Will is a losing proposition against most types of aggro decks. You basically turn one of their interchangeable beaters into a Hymn. People overrate FoW because angry nerds get redfaced when people stop their cards from resolving when they envisioned doing uber cool things with them
    I will make use of every tool that fate presents.

  10. #50
    Vintage

    Join Date

    Apr 2005
    Location

    West Coast Degeneracy
    Posts

    5,135

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by perm View Post
    Force of Will is a losing proposition against most types of aggro decks. You basically turn one of their interchangeable beaters into a Hymn. People overrate FoW because angry nerds get redfaced when people stop their cards from resolving when they envisioned doing uber cool things with them
    For every matchup where FOW eats another card to take out a beater, is a matchup where FOW protects you from losing the game right now against Glass Cannons and other combos. Which would you rather be left out in the cold against?
    West side
    Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
    * Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
    My Legacy stream
    My MTG Blog - Work in progress

  11. #51
    Argyle sweaters make things better.
    OurSerratedDust's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2009
    Location

    Maine/Worcester, MA
    Posts

    224

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    I think that mental misstep has pushed blue over the edge. As the original poster pointed out, it makes legacy more of a "play blue to be successful" kind of deal. While legacy is fairly diverse right now, the meta was much more diverse before MM.

  12. #52
    Greatness awaits!
    Lemnear's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2010
    Location

    Berlin, Germany
    Posts

    6,998

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by OurSerratedDust View Post
    I think that mental misstep has pushed blue over the edge. As the original poster pointed out, it makes legacy more of a "play blue to be successful" kind of deal. While legacy is fairly diverse right now, the meta was much more diverse before MM.
    Zoo/Tribal vs. ANT/TES was a very diverse meta in my previous area. Misstep is an excuse to switch to control en masse and so it seems that blue control beats everything but that's not the whole picture.
    www.theepicstorm.com - Your Source for The Epic Storm - Articles, Reports, Decktech and more!

    Join us at Facebook!

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  13. #53

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by perm View Post
    People overrate FoW because angry nerds get redfaced when people stop their cards from resolving when they envisioned doing uber cool things with them
    No. We overrate FOW because it won every legacy GP and most big tournaments. Also those have about 5 or 6 FOW deck in their top8.

    This said, a non-FOW deck won GP providence. Basically with MM taking its spot and doing its job. But i'm not sure yet if that is good news or not :)

  14. #54
    Member
    Offler's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2009
    Location

    Bratislava, Slovak republic
    Posts

    674

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    to perm and FSK:
    You both are right. There are still blue "control" decks not only in legacy, but many other formats which can use only counterspells without any good lock.

    When I tried to play Ertai, Wizard adept with Arcane laboratory, while most time of the game I have to wait for some mana and good offensive spell people accused me of slow play, leaving game before it had ended. They did not realized that my deck is working fine - exactly I planned to play.

    Mental misstep just hits 2 kinds of decks:
    Vintage-legacy 1st turn winners
    Low mana based decks where 4 CMC is considered for too expensive card in mana.

    The reason why its Mental Misstep rated so high, is it has huge influence on people who dont actually want play it and dont want to see it in play. Same for FOW.

    The real rating of both cards is not caused by their actual power (quite high), but by decks which actually lose tempo due this form of non-mana disrupt.

  15. #55
    (previously Metalwalker)
    GGoober's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2008
    Location

    Houston, TX
    Posts

    1,647

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    The format is fair at this point. It's seemingly deceiving that cards like Brainstorm/Jace should be banned because they seem 'overpowered'. The truth as pointed out by many people above, there are a lot of powerful cards in Legacy.

    The big difference between cards in Legacy and cards in say Vintage is: You have Brainstorm/Jace/LED/Moat/NO that are so powerful, yet you don't see a ton of decks playing all these cards all the time. The only exception is Brainstorm and maybe Mental Misstep these days (BoM/SCG/GP Top 8s). The real culprit is: the blue color pie in eternal format is very very powerful. It's the combination of Brainstorm/Jace/FoW/Daze/Pierce etc that makes the color very powerful, compare that to a combination of other cards like Goyf/Nacatl/Hierarch/NO or Duress/Hymn/Tombstalker/Bob etc. You'll see why blue feels 'overpowered' at times. It's just historically that the combination of good powerful blue cards act much stronger than combination of cards from other colors.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  16. #56
    Shake that.
    Skeggi's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2008
    Location

    Amsterdam
    Posts

    2,047

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    The discussion of this thread is if Brainstorm should be banned. Granted, I think it's the best card in Legacy for quite some time now, but it makes me wonder why Chains of Mephistopheles isn't that populair. I guess it's because Choke is better. So thefe you are, run Choke. Or City of Solitude or Leyline of Vitality.
    If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it's probably delicious.
    Team ADHD-To resist is to piss in the wind. Anyone who does will end up smelling.

  17. #57

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Blue does need a nerf. Anyone who disagrees frankly does not understand Legacy or magic.

    The strongest colors in order. Blue and Black should be consensus 1 and 2. You can argue the rest. Though, sadly red is definitely last. (power creep has weakened lightning bolt)

    1) Blue
    2) Black
    3) White
    4) Green
    5 ) Red

    If the R&D team, was doing it's job, then all colors would be equal on average.

    The solution as pointed out by previous posts is to print better cards for the other colors that are NOT narrow. See the arguments of Thrun, choke, Blue elemental Blast stopping blue are just wrong. Those cards Must be boarded in. Jace, Mental Misstep, FoW are main board cards and are good against, well almost everything. So the blue mage win's game 1 and then your stuck having to win 2 games.

  18. #58
    (' ' '\( 0 ,o)/''')
    TheInfamousBearAssassin's Avatar
    Join Date

    May 2004
    Location

    Northern Virginia
    Posts

    6,627

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonwisdom View Post
    Blue does need a nerf. Anyone who disagrees frankly does not understand Legacy or magic.

    The strongest colors in order. Blue and Black should be consensus 1 and 2.
    No? White has ownership or joint custody of about half of the top creatures (KotR, Stoneforge, Qasali Pridemage, Nacatl), and by far the best removal in the format. Green would be pulling up third. Hell, the best card in black requires green anyway.

    If the R&D team, was doing it's job, then all colors would be equal on average.
    Assuming this were possible, why do you say it's desirable?
    For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
    And found I was for endurance made

  19. #59

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by dragonwisdom View Post
    If the R&D team, was doing it's job, then all colors would be equal on average.
    Why should the color pie be equal? The equality of the color pie is not stopping players from choosing which colors they wish to utilize. Just because Blue is the most powerful piece of the color pie does not mean that some players are barred from blue while others can use blue.

    The things that blue does naturally makes it a powerful color: drawing cards, countering spells, filter spells, etc. However, just because there is an imbalance also does not mean that the other colors are invalidated.

    White has superior removal and has a piece of some of the most powerful creatures.
    Green has the best beaters.
    Black has powerful creatures and powerful draw effects. Also, it's the color of combo and discard.

    Even Red, which many would consider the weakest color, gives reach and redundancy for decks that wish to use it. Between Burning Wish and mana accel for combo decks, goblins for goblin decks, and the flexibility of burn spells (like Lightning Bolt), red frequently complements decks which use it. It's in fact the best color for fighting blue decks:

    Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon can be brutal to blue decks that get greedy with their mana bases (and can screw over other mana greedy decks).

    Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast are excellent foils to destroy blue counters and blowing up fish.

    Grim Lavamancer can easily hose fish.

    If you feel that blue is too strong, start playing more red decks. Blue may be the strongest color, but it's strength is in fact weakness at times. Blue is only good because it also relies heavily on other colors at times.

  20. #60
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2007
    Location

    Italy, Eternal
    Posts

    1,848

    Re: Blue needs a Nerf

    May i suggest this?



    Problem is the best deck for this card is probably UR Vore lol. Sadly Vise isn't as good as it used to against control nowadays, it was broken when keeper was the best deck nowadays it's just annoying.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)