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Thread: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

  1. #1

    Grand Prix Providence- Most Played Cards

    Without further ado all the cards from the Top 8:

    Mental Misstep 27
    Island 24
    Brainstorm 24
    Force of Will 24
    Wasteland 15
    Misty Rainforest 12
    Daze 12
    Vendilion Clique 10
    Polluted Delta 10
    Swords to Plowshares 10
    Tropical Island 9
    Tarmogoyf 9
    Jace, the Mind Sculptor 9
    Path to Exile 9
    Volcanic Island 8
    Wooded Foothills 8
    Lightning Bolt 8
    Spell Pierce 8
    Flooded Strand 8
    Mishra's Factory 8
    Standstill 8
    Llawan, Cephalid Empress 8
    Scalding Tarn 7
    Noble Hierarch 7
    Green Sun's Zenith 7
    Umezawa's Jitte 7
    Windswept Heath 7
    Ancient Tomb 7
    Intuition 7
    Ponder 6
    Tundra 6
    Qasali Pridemage 6
    Stoneforge Mystic 6
    Grim Lavamancer 5
    Red Elemental Blast 5
    Relic of Progenitus 5
    Spell Snare 5
    Knight of the Reliquary 5
    Mutavault 4
    Taiga 4
    Chain Lightning 4
    Wild Nacatl 4
    Natural Order 4
    Pyroblast 4
    Pernicious Deed 4
    Leyline of the Void 4
    Steppe Lynx 4
    Price of Progress 4
    Sylvan Library 4
    Gaddock Teeg 4
    Krosan Grip 4
    City of Traitors 4
    Seat of the Synod 4
    Goblin Welder 4
    Painter's Servant 4
    Grindstone 4
    Sensei's Divining Top 4
    Blood Moon 4
    Tormod's Crypt 4
    Arid Mesa 4
    Coralhelm Commander 4
    Cursecatcher 4
    Lord of Atlantis 4
    Merrow Reejerey 4
    Silvergill Adept 4
    Aether Vial 4
    Pact of Negation 4
    Show and Tell 4
    Hive Mind 4
    Leyline of Sanctity 4
    Misdirection 4
    Forest 3
    Meddling Mage 3
    Underground Sea 3
    Thoughtseize 3
    Savannah 3
    Choke 3
    Thrun, the Last Troll 3
    Great Furnace 3
    Mox Opal 3
    Submerge 3
    Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 3
    Pact of the Titan 3
    Grim Monolith 3
    Mindbreak Trap 3
    Ravenous Trap 3
    Dryad Arbor 2
    Plateau 2
    Plains 2
    Batterskull 2
    Ancient Grudge 2
    Counterspell 2
    Diabolic Edict 2
    Life from the Loam 2
    Rhox War Monk 2
    Kira, Great Glass-Spinner 2
    Merfolk Sovereign 2
    Blue Elemental Blast 2
    Energy Flux 2
    Summoner's Pact 2
    Karakas 2
    Mountain 1
    Oblivion Ring 1
    Horizon Canopy 1
    Progenitus 1
    Crucible of Worlds 1
    Fireblast 1
    Kitchen Finks 1
    Wrath of God 1
    Terastodon 1
    Dismember 1
    Go for the Throat 1
    Innocent Blood 1
    Smother 1
    Damnation 1
    Sword of Body and Mind 1
    Ghastly Demise 1
    Maelstrom Pulse 1
    Vedalken Shackles 1
    Maze of Ith 1
    Birds of Paradise 1
    Sword of Feast and Famine 1
    Bojuka Bog 1
    Dispel 1
    Pithing Needle 1
    Sylvan Safekeeper 1
    Lion's Eye Diamond 1
    Transmute Artifact 1
    Sower of Temptation 1

    So apparently, Mental Misstep > Brainstorm > Force of Will.

    A couple more stats:
    Lands- 117
    Creatures- 173
    Spells- 311

    Note that only 2 cards are from NPH.

    I have a lot of thoughts on this, but I'm curious as to what others want to say first. I'm a blue mage myself, so the title was not serious, but what can be done to "fix" blue. I think the core of the problem is Blue has the ability to manipulate cards, say no and play really powerful cards such as Jace and Show and Tell. Add that to the fact they can do a lot of it for free generates far too much of an advantage.
    Last edited by Griselpuff; 06-03-2011 at 08:14 AM. Reason: Change topic

  2. #2
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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Ban the second of that list.
    If you fail to explain the reason behind your choice, technically, it's the wrong choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    It's one of the ten strongest cards in Legacy. And in truth, in any deck you design, you really need to have a good reason -not- to run Wasteland.
    Zerk Thread -- Really, fun deck! ^^

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Wow, that's a list of really great cards. No wonder I like this format so much. I want to play ALL those.

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Amusingly enough, banning Island (and Snow-Covered Island) might be less absurd than it looks, since you'd weaken blue decks against almost everything except combo decks who wouldn't punish you for an all-nonbasic manabase. NO I'M NOT ENDORSING BANNING ISLAND
    YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    But if you ban blue cards, it just means that unfair aggro/combo decks are going to rape the format. You wouldn't want that to happen right? Blue keeps everything in check, and since it keeps everything in check, everyone wants to keep everything in check, hence they play blue.

    I can't even imagine a format where blue isn't a dominant player. Same deal in EDH or any other format. If you don't have blue in matches, then the combo player is just going to win ALL the time. We wouldn't want a format like that do we?

    Totally saw the Mental Misstep scenarios in the Top 8. The card is too good, in blue decks (of course).
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    When talking about all those cards (read: blue) being "unfair" one should note that out of the Top20 only one card provides card advantage. All the others are either one-for-ones or even card disadvantage, though they provide tempo. So we can conclude that "tempo" is the new "unfair"?
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Tempo is definitely the most important aspect in modern Legacy. It's been for a while.

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    So let's take the logical next step and look for cards that punish tempo-based strategies...Suggestions? (This ain't a rhetorical question)
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    I think that giving other colors cards that are good against combo, but don't suck against everything else, is the reasonable choice.
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  10. #10

    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Also, apparently Vendilion Clique is the best creature! :)

    It is my favorite out of Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, Stoneforge Mystic, Knight of the Reliquary and Vendilion Clique. Any other nominations for best creature in Legacy?

    Please don't say Llawan XD

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Quote Originally Posted by akatsuki View Post
    Please don't say Llawan XD
    The best creature to see your opponent's face contort in awful ways.
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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Or you could just make a zoo deck with the top non-blue cards.

    Grim Lavamancer x 3
    Knight of the Reliquary x 3
    Steppe Lynx x 4
    Stoneforge Mystic x 4
    Tarmogoyf x 4
    Thrun, the Last Troll x 1

    Chain Lightning x 4
    Green Sun's Zenith x 3
    Lightning Bolt x 4
    Path to Exile x 3
    Swords to Plowshares x 3
    Umezawa's Jitte x 1

    Arid Mesa x 2
    Forest x 1
    Karakas x 1
    Maze of Ith x 1
    Mountain x 1
    Plains x 1
    Plateau x 2
    Savannah x 3
    Taiga x 2
    Wasteland x 3
    Windswept Heath x 3
    Wooded Foothills x 3

    Krosan Grip x 4
    Pyroblast x 2
    Qasali Pridemage x 4
    Red Elemental Blast x 3
    Relic of Progenitus x 2

  13. #13
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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    If the Hatfields advocate 4x Horizon Canopy in Zoo, it's probably the right decision.

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    So let's take the logical next step and look for cards that punish tempo-based strategies...Suggestions? (This ain't a rhetorical question)
    How are you going to punish tempo-based strategies? If you don't have significant tempo on your own, you'll basically just lose. What you can do is either try to disrupt them yourself so you can land some sweet lategame bombs (basically just play Landstill or these new Stoneforge decks) or you can try to not be susceptible to their tempo-disruption but this seems hard to achieve. The last option is to out-tempo them with your own tempo elements (Dragon Stompy seems pretty strong right now).

  15. #15

    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Quote Originally Posted by android View Post
    Or you could just make a zoo deck with the top non-blue cards.

    Grim Lavamancer x 3
    Knight of the Reliquary x 3
    Steppe Lynx x 4
    Stoneforge Mystic x 4
    Tarmogoyf x 4
    Thrun, the Last Troll x 1

    Chain Lightning x 4
    Green Sun's Zenith x 3
    Lightning Bolt x 4
    Path to Exile x 3
    Swords to Plowshares x 3
    Umezawa's Jitte x 1

    Arid Mesa x 2
    Forest x 1
    Karakas x 1
    Maze of Ith x 1
    Mountain x 1
    Plains x 1
    Plateau x 2
    Savannah x 3
    Taiga x 2
    Wasteland x 3
    Windswept Heath x 3
    Wooded Foothills x 3

    Krosan Grip x 4
    Pyroblast x 2
    Qasali Pridemage x 4
    Red Elemental Blast x 3
    Relic of Progenitus x 2
    How about a full set of Thurn, replacing the bolt spells with REB and Pyroblast, adding a set of Vexing Shusher and throwing Choke and City of Solitude into the main as well?
    I see more than others do because I know where to look.

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Is it time to start putting together Imperial Painter yet?

    7 maindeck Blasts, turn 2 combo, and Magus of the Moon. Man this deck is so sexy!
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  17. #17

    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    So, Mental Misstep is better than Force of Will?

  18. #18

    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    with all the hype around mystic and equipment, there wasnt much at all in the top8 (though 7x jitte does seem like a bit since decks usually dont run more than 2)

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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    When talking about all those cards (read: blue) being "unfair" one should note that out of the Top20 only one card provides card advantage. All the others are either one-for-ones or even card disadvantage, though they provide tempo. So we can conclude that "tempo" is the new "unfair"?
    The fact that "tempo" define modern eternal was pointed by Menendian and a lot of others players ages ago. He went even further and stated that even a card like LoA in modern eternal would be fair just because the tempo loss of playing it's so devastating (see: not doing anything first x turn in exchange for x more cards), that you'd see the card only for control mirrors or in a format extremely dominated by prison archetipes.
    This is natural if you consider how stupidly strong are win condition compared to ages ago (nothing better than morphling will ever be printed!). Control gladly trade cards one for one with aggro if it can play a win condition that basically gain infinite card advantage via board presence on turn 2-3.
    Long ago you were forced to play bad win conditions that didn't dominate the board, making card advantage fundamental to actually control.

  20. #20
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    Re: Grand Prix Providence- Most Popular Cards. Let's ban BLUE!

    Quote Originally Posted by phonics View Post
    with all the hype around mystic and equipment, there wasnt much at all in the top8 (though 7x jitte does seem like a bit since decks usually dont run more than 2)
    Was a metagame choice against an expected field of Merfolks. Doesn't strike me as odd when the tier decks are prepared against Folks, possibly nabbing random Goblins and Elves along the way.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

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