No more blue stabbing please

[Hitman82]

Why are ban discussions allowed here at all??? All they ever turn out to be are ignorants ranting and haters flaming. The number of intelligent posts is so negligent I don't get why these threads are allowed to exist. It's not like you have any control over the DCI's decision-making anyway.

[joemauer]

Why are ban discussions allowed here at all??? All they ever turn out to be are ignorants ranting and haters flaming. The number of intelligent posts is so negligent I don't get why these threads are allowed to exist. It's not like you have any control over the DCI's decision-making anyway.

So are you for blue or against blue?

[Admiral_Arzar]

Why are ban discussions allowed here at all??? All they ever turn out to be are ignorants ranting and haters flaming. The number of intelligent posts is so negligent I don't get why these threads are allowed to exist. It's not like you have any control over the DCI's decision-making anyway.

Bro, if you don't like the thread, GTFO. Also, it's annoying when you post the same stupid message in multiple threads.

[Diprivan]

So are you for blue or against blue?

Made my day, lol

This thread is a reaction against all the people who think that based on 2 big tournaments MM has changed the format forever and go !!!!1!!!!BLUE IS OVERPOWERED, the sky is falling and I need mi mommi!!!!1!!!!

This is the Bob Marley thread of metagame discussion => relax or leave (smoke pot and then come back here)

[FieryBalrog]

Ah, yes, the classic "well who cares if blue is ridiculously overpowered, because smart people don't want to play anything else anyway".

You ever thought that the reason the Spike psychograph and the "I <3 blue" psychograph overlap so much is because.. drumroll... blue has always been the overpowered Fortunate Son?

Spikes who enjoyed playing other things either learned to love blue or learned to love losing.

[GGoober]

This thread is awesome, because watch a few hours from now, it'll degrade to yet another OMGBANBLUE. Calling it before it happens!

Quoting myself because I'm awesome and this is hilarious:

PAGE 1: Not so bad
#7

Alternately, if they want to restore red they could just unban Goblin Recruiter and Worldgorger Dragon

#9

I think they would have no issue unbanning Dragon if the deck didn't cause inordinate amounts of draws in tournaments.

#19 (DrJones really started the derailing!)

So, I hope that FoW gets axed this year thanks to the arrival of Mental Misstep, which fixes a lot of things that are wrong about FoW

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#23

All that said, I don't think anything should be banned, or that the format sux, I just said I would enjoy if they printed better cards for monocolor strategies, as much as they print things for multicolor like Wild Nacatl or Maelstrom Pulse. Cards that work better if you have basic lands would be nice =)

#28

Lol, props to the guy who said this was going to end into another ban blue thread.

So, as I opened the thread, some recommendations:
1. Discussion about blue banning is for another thread there are enough serial threads to discuss manbearpig
2. This thread is for trolling so don't post here if you can't make me lol.
3. Dr Jones and some others should change their pic into gargamel, just for sports (and epic lulz)

:D

#29

Format is unplayable, it's all Time Walks and Strip Mines. Ban Blue. I have had it with FoW and Brainstorm being the most played cards for years running.

#32

I still don't see how Brainstorm is even remotely as powerful as other banned cards like SotF, MT, Mox-X, or Black Lotus.

Dragofireheart rubbing the salt into banlists again!

#36

So Brainstorm should be banned because it's the best card? I don' think it crosses the threshold on being broken. Especially considering that the current tier 1 deck, Merfolk, doesn't even run it.

He's at it again!

#37

I don't want them to ban Brainstorm, I think it's the most fun card in Legacy. I just can't understand why I (anyone) shouldn't play it.

#38

If Wotc bans the color blue no one would have to debate over which blue cards are the broken ones needing banning. Just saying.

#40

Land Tax is fucking overpowered, thank god it's banned!
...
Er wait, blue is still unbanned. Carry on with your discussion, then.

PAGE 3:
#41

Why are ban discussions allowed here at all??? All they ever turn out to be are ignorants ranting and haters flaming. The number of intelligent posts is so negligent I don't get why these threads are allowed to exist. It's not like you have any control over the DCI's decision-making anyway.

SALUTE!

#42

So are you for blue or against blue?

Also Lord Cyrus called Speed Zoo beating blue and we have it in SCG Indianapolis with Zoo/Gobs coming 1st/2nd in a field of blue.

My conlusion for this thread:

OMG can we just ban blue already so we won't have these posts/threads popping up at the end of every Legacy event?

[DragoFireheart]

Quoting myself because I'm awesome and this is hilarious:

PAGE 1: Not so bad
#7


#9


#19 (DrJones really started the derailing!)



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#23


#28

:D

#29


#32

Dragofireheart rubbing the salt into banlists again!

#36

He's at it again!

#37


#38


#40


PAGE 3:
#41

SALUTE!

#42


Also Lord Cyrus called Speed Zoo beating blue and we have it in SCG Indianapolis with Zoo/Gobs coming 1st/2nd in a field of blue.

My conlusion for this thread:

OMG can we just ban blue already so we won't have these posts/threads popping up at the end of every Legacy event?

It's not like predicting such an outcome would be hard to guess anyways. People love to bitch about blue.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

It's not like predicting such an outcome would be hard to guess anyways. People love to bitch about blue.

15 out of 15 of the past major Legacy tournaments I am aware of were won by blue decks.

Really, if not for the fact that Mental Misstep upends the metagame, it would be nonsensical to do anything but call for some sort of action.

I think people that really want to hang onto their Brainstorms at all costs are using typical misdirection techniques by trying to label valid criticisms about blue's over-dominance at the moment as "whining" or "bitching."

Yet all this amounts to is doing what Wizards has always done in every non-Vintage format, which is intervene to keep the format somewhat balanced.

[bakofried]

The Invitational had the top 2 spots taken by Zoo and Goblins, respectively. I'll admit it wasn't pure legacy, but I believe results are still somewhat valid.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The Invitational had the top 2 spots taken by Zoo and Goblins, respectively. I'll admit it wasn't pure legacy, but I believe results are still somewhat valid.

Oh, so he did. I misead the finals page and thought RUG was his Legacy deck.

This is why I fucking hate people that insist on these "descriptive" names that always end up describing dozens of decks over dozens of formats. At least Caw-Blade specifies something.

So 14 out of 17. That's worrisome but a bit better, especially since half of those we can drop as as the pre-Mental Misstep meta.

[Mon,Goblin Chief]

Oh, so he did. I misead the finals page and thought RUG was his Legacy deck.

This is why I fucking hate people that insist on these "descriptive" names that always end up describing dozens of decks over dozens of formats. At least Caw-Blade specifies something.

So 14 out of 17. That's worrisome but a bit better, especially since half of those we can drop as as the pre-Mental Misstep meta.

Also, how many of those 14 were Fish, making action against Brainstorm nonsensical?

[DragoFireheart]

Oh, so he did. I misead the finals page and thought RUG was his Legacy deck.

This is why I fucking hate people that insist on these "descriptive" names that always end up describing dozens of decks over dozens of formats. At least Caw-Blade specifies something.

So 14 out of 17. That's worrisome but a bit better, especially since half of those we can drop as as the pre-Mental Misstep meta.

How many of those 14 blue decks had Brainstorm?

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Also, how many of those 14 were Fish, making action against Brainstorm nonsensical?

This is a silly argument. Fish exists because blue is a very popular color. Take away other blue decks and combo- decks most likely to use Brainstorm- and Fish has very few positive matchups left.

How many of those 14 blue decks had Brainstorm?

11.

The other blue decks were 2 Merfolk, 1 Affinity.

[DragoFireheart]

11.

The other blue decks were 2 Merfolk, 1 Affinity.

Hasn't that be the normal distribution even in the past? 1/2 ro 3/4 blue, the other 1/4 other stuff?

[Gui]

Quoting myself because I'm awesome and this is hilarious:
...

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#23

All that said, I don't think anything should be banned, or that the format sux, I just said I would enjoy if they printed better cards for monocolor strategies, as much as they print things for multicolor like Wild Nacatl or Maelstrom Pulse. Cards that work better if you have basic lands would be nice =)

...

Unfair. How is that quote related to OMGBANBLUE? I was refering to a totally different OMG topic, which is OMG pls print better monocolor-oriented cards instead of amazing multicolor ones, punishing you for playing monocolor twice as much. (Less answers, worse answers)

Here's a sample:
Gui's Chosen
Creature - Beast
During your upkeep, if you control lands other than basic Forests, sacrifice Gui's Chosen.
3/3

Oh wow, I'd love this card xD


Editing for some extra fuel to burn:

I don't really get why WotC believes to be an easier/better cost than (yes, I'm comparing pridemage vs zealot, but it's just one example of many). forces you to be less diverse in colors, making your splash harder/worse, the gg card should actually have a better effect than the gw one. If pridemage and Zealot had the same skills (, sacrifice: naturalize; exalted; 2/2), Pridemage would still be the most played card due to gg cost being worse.

[GGoober]

It's called Power Creep Gui!!

Just as Shivan Dragon is no longer as impressive and Serra Angel is no longer as impressive when compared next to Baneslayer Angel.

And to your point, having colored cost of the same mana symbol e.g. GG/WW/UU is usually 'bad' because in Legacy, most decks are splashing colors. The real drawback in Legacy is limiting yourself to mono-color. I think there are more multicolor decks or decks splashing colors with/without duals than actually the dominance of blue-based decks. My opinion on this whole situation is: you can't really call every deck that plays blue a 'blue-based' deck. It's semantics, but I think blue-based decks are really just limited to Merfolks, Landstill, Countertop, Solidarity, MUC, Dreadstill, spiral Tide in this format. A deck like RUG/Bant/TA aren't really blue-based since their win-conditions and strategies do not involve blue. Blue is simply used to protect/answer/execute their win conditions.

The real deal is Bant/TA/RUG/SFMskull are using blue cards because the blue shell is the best shell to splash for in this format, or in general, in the game of MTG itself. However, it is hard to see Berserk Stompy (no harm intended Gui! :P) or mono colored decks being the most competitive decks. They don't do bad because Burn/MonoU Merfolks/MonoR Goblins all still place well, but for most parts, Legacy is primarily dual/tri colored because there is little reason not to splash colors to gain power level. The nice thing is this is kept in check by Wasteland/Moon/Stifle. Format is pretty awesome, nothing is ever too overpowered and everything is kept in check by something e.g. blue by Merfolks and vial decks.

[Koby]

Because at , Harmonic Sliver is just better than Qasali Pridemage. And power creep.

Also, Blue-based Infect Stompy isn't bad either. You get counters to protect your 1/1's. (lol?)

[Nonex]

The philosophy behind that is that different colors merged in the same card cover each other's weaknesses, giving a better card a result. For example, white is good at destroying artifacts and enchantments, but it has narrow answers to creatures; black is good at destroying creatures and doesn't totally suck at destroying lands, but it can't deal with artifacts and enchantments. Thus when combined, Vindicate is born.

[GGoober]

Lol ruckus: 1/1's that kill you!!

Yeah, the color blue is a shell that is immensely effective in eternal formats. A good observation is to look at white, which does almost nothing important in Vintage, whereas it plays a key role in Legacy, whether you're playing it for StP/SFM or splashing it for Pridemage etc. A pure mono-U deck with all the best blue card is usually (I say usually because MUC can be immensely good in the right metagame) not going to do as well as Ux decks or Uxy decks or even XYu (splashing blue instead of blue being the main color) for reasons that every color you splash, you gain something that blue cannot achieve. It's this reason you find most decks splashing blue, or white. Because decks without blue are losing out on the blue permission package which is very strong in the format, and blue control decks are sometimes forced to splash red or white for a removal package which is lacking in mono blue (Repeal and Echoing Truth are not too spetacular).

This is why I don't buy the whole "Blue needs a nerf" story. The blue package is argubly the strongest package, but that's the defining aspect of the format, just like Standard is defined by Jace and Caws, Vintage is defined by the color blue, Lotus and maybe 3-5 decks, Legacy is also primarily defined by the fact that blue is the stronger color. However, I think Legacy is evolving much more than what our impressions are imposed on ourselves. We tend to think the format to be just blue blue blue, when we sometimes fail to admire that blue is really kept in check by Merfolks (which so unluckily happens to be in blue) and Vial.dec, which is usually countered by non-blue decks e.g. Gobs/Zoo. My point is, everything is kept in check. Too many blue cards you see is a little 'uneasy', but the upside is: you have a format where the Top 8/16/32 are not revealing an overabundance of the same archetype/decks. This is the crux of it all, and is only proof that the format is balanced.

[Tacosnape]

This thread is the equivalent of a bunch of lesser comic book superheroes sitting around and talking about how overrated Superman is. No, he isn't. If you need someone to come to your rescue, you pick the guy who's immune to bullets, can fly, has x-ray vision, bends steel, etc. You don't call Aquaman.

Blue is amazing. Deal with it.

Furthermore, comparing the structure of Vintage to the structure of Legacy is pointless. Vintage is the way it is because broken cards were printed at a time when nobody involved in Magic had any clue how to balance power levels of cards. Ancestral Recall was part of the same cycle as Healing Salve, for god's sake.

Legacy is the way it is right now because of Mental Misstep. Legacy is the way it is right now because they did what Wizards does every so often: Print a card without thinking clearly.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Mental Misstep made the format worse. I was so tired of Legacy being a gauntlet of impossible combo decks. I'm glad Dredge is weakened. I'm glad Storm Combo is weakened. I'm glad Belcher and Elf Combo are much more beatable now. I'm glad, for the most part, that you have to have a little bit of playskill to succeed in Legacy right now. I'm glad combat math exists again. I'm glad the format, on the whole, doesn't reward terrible magic players who learn one combo and can get lucky and beat you.

That said, I don't think Mental Misstep really made the format much better, either, because now there's absolutely no reason to not play blue in your deck. Combo is blue, control is blue, aggro is blue, and aggro control is blue. You can get 8+ free counters in your deck by splashing blue now without having to run more than 8 blue cards.