Yet Another Exploration of Whining and the Blue Phenomenon

[DrJones]

That a non-argument, but that's not my argument. It's only you making up nonsense to attack that nonsense.

My argument is obvious.
1. All of these decks pack Force of Will. If you don't understand what's doing Force of Will in all those decks, then stop reading because there's no sense in discussing this with you.
2. Most of these decks had previous versions that didn't play Force of Will, but if you ever bothered reading Pro Player articles, they always regard the version with Force of Will as the "superior" version, and in fact, bannings always come shortly after a version with Force of Will starts winning tourneys, even if the nonblue version has been available for months. Do you understand why?
3. When the DCI bans a card, the most common reasons are "it wins too fast" and "excessive resilience". Note that there are several decks in legacy that wins very fast, but they don't have "excessive resilience". Can you spot what effects the banned decks had in common that the others didn't have?

[nayon]

That a non-argument, but that's not my argument. It's only you making up nonsense to attack that nonsense.

My argument is obvious.
1. All of these decks pack Force of Will. If you don't understand what's doing Force of Will in all those decks, then stop reading because there's no sense in discussing this with you.
2. Most of these decks had previous versions that didn't play Force of Will, but if you ever bothered reading Pro Player articles, they always regard the version with Force of Will as the "superior" version, and in fact, bannings always come shortly after a version with Force of Will starts winning tourneys, even if the nonblue version has been available for months. Do you understand why?
3. When the DCI bans a card, the most common reasons are "it wins too fast" and "excessive resilience". Note that there are several decks in legacy that wins very fast, but they don't have "excessive resilience". Can you spot what effects the banned decks had in common that the others didn't have?

1. So do other decks. As it has been pointed out in other threads, running FoW in combo decks is actually harder than running it in regular decks. Do you understand that?
2. Yes, playing counterspells makes you not auto-lose. That is generally a good thing.
3. Force of Will is not "excessive resilience". It is one spell. You two-for-one yourself. If you have it in your hand. Many of the other cards are way better than FoW.

[Fsk]

Honestly? Don't you realize that your show and tell + fow argument is irrelevant? Guess what, the Show and Tell deck runs Misdirection instead of FoW after it's banned, and benefits from the ban because people can't use mis-d against them.

Hm because you dont agree/understand i'm dishonest now ? Interesting way of thinking.
Misdirection is a lot worse than Force of Will, there is no way combo player would just make the switch. If it was any good they would just play both already.

But whatever, you got me. As sgc denver open just showed us yesterday, FOW is a bad card in combo. They can only use it to force a SnT when they have the perfect 7 cards combo hand. And it is amazing in aggro since they only need 3 cards to win : 1 fow, 1 blue card and 1 Flying Men.

[SpikeyMikey]

Any FoW discussion will bring Jones out from woodwork to spout half truths about how FoW is really a combo card. Unfortunately, common sense is merely common, not universal.

For the record, the best version of Vengevival was not the UG Caleb special, it was the GW Venge/Iona/beatdown version.

Mind's Desire was restricted in T1 (and thus banned in 1.5) before it was even legal. So there were no listings with Force of Will because there were no listings.

Honestly, I think Jones is just a very dedicated troll and FSK is either a buddy of his or a second account. No reasonable person thinks FoW could safely be banned.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Like, while we ultimately all accepted it as necessary, pretty much everyone in NoVA was quite reluctant to put Force of Will in Solidarity when NY people suggested it. It wasn't clear that the protection of the combo helped as much as sacrificing the card slots and then having to pitch a card tripped you up, and that deck was mono-blue. What made Hulk-Flash busted was the fact that it could easily jam in all of these disruption spells while still having a quick kill and plenty of searching, but most combo decks are not so compact. Force of Will being banned wouldn't hurt combo because few other cards have the flexibility to show up turn 1-2 to stop a Belcher or lethal Tendrils or SnT, and all these decks would abandon resilience for speed in the absence of Force.

[lorddotm]

Ban Mental Misstep.

[menace13]

Any FoW discussion will bring Jones out from woodwork to spout half truths about how FoW is really a combo card. Unfortunately, common sense is merely common, not universal.

For the record, the best version of Vengevival was not the UG Caleb special, it was the GW Venge/Iona/beatdown version.

Mind's Desire was restricted in T1 (and thus banned in 1.5) before it was even legal. So there were no listings with Force of Will because there were no listings.

Honestly, I think Jones is just a very dedicated troll and FSK is either a buddy of his or a second account. No reasonable person thinks FoW could safely be banned.

I thought the same exact thing. One day I too will make multiple accounts to troll people in response to my own posts.

[dontbiteitholmes]

My argument is obvious.
1. Force of Will has beat every terrible deck I have played multiple times over.
2. I do not like playing Force of Will, at the same time I refuse to play cards and strategies that account for Force of Will being a presence and continue to play decks that are extremely vulnerable to counterspells (see my post history to clear up any confusion).
3. I will continue to complain about FoW until it is banned. Since this will never happen I will instead convince myself that the card is broken. This makes it easy to blame losing to FoW as being beaten by a broken card instead of coming to terms with the fact that I am making decisions that are causing me to lose those matches.

Fixed that for you.

Seriously. If you don't like Force of Will, go play Modern... Force of Will defines Legacy, everyone agrees with this except you.

[Nihil Credo]