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Thread: [M12 Cards]

  1. #201

    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    Good observation, and I am inclined to agree. On paper, in Lands.dec, assuming you have active Manabonds/Exploration/Loams, saccing the land to actually put the artifact in your hand is more crucial to putting on top of your library when you are constantly dredging.

    More interestingly, non-blue land builds that wish to recur EE are now possible without the need to play blue for Intuition/Academy Ruins (although Intuition is the main reason you play blue, not Aruins).
    Well, Tolaria West is pretty hard to replace, but lightening the blue requirement is definitely a plus for non-Intution lists.

  2. #202
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Somehow I keep wondering if there's a U/B Control Shell for Vengeful Pharaoh with Careful Study, Predict, Zombie Infestation, Squee, and other janktacular stuff. I mean, how great would it be to have a Knight of the Reliquary and a Tarmogoyf coming at your lone Zombie Infestation, pitch Squee and Pharaoh to make a Zombie, chump the Goyf, Pharaoh kill the Knight, untap, get Squee back, Predict for Pharaoh, draw two, draw normal, and have more Zombie chow?

    Danger of Cool Things galore, but in Limited or maybe Standard, getting Pharaoh with Zombie Infestation will be a sexy trick.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  3. #203

    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacosnape View Post
    Somehow I keep wondering if there's a U/B Control Shell for Vengeful Pharaoh with Careful Study, Predict, Zombie Infestation, Squee, and other janktacular stuff. I mean, how great would it be to have a Knight of the Reliquary and a Tarmogoyf coming at your lone Zombie Infestation, pitch Squee and Pharaoh to make a Zombie, chump the Goyf, Pharaoh kill the Knight, untap, get Squee back, Predict for Pharaoh, draw two, draw normal, and have more Zombie chow?
    This would involve letting the Knight hit you, which is probably more painful than Goyf. Pharaoh only triggers on damage being dealt.

  4. #204
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    Good observation, and I am inclined to agree. On paper, in Lands.dec, assuming you have active Manabonds/Exploration/Loams, saccing the land to actually put the artifact in your hand is more crucial to putting on top of your library when you are constantly dredging.

    More interestingly, non-blue land builds that wish to recur EE are now possible without the need to play blue for Intuition/Academy Ruins (although Intuition is the main reason you play blue, not Aruins).
    Very good observation indeed. I just scanned it and filed it as a 1 shot Ruins but the "to hand" is huge. Excellent call.
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Man, FoF sphinx and Demonic Tutor Demon are boss. (EDH) looks like a broken uncommon on a fatty cycle. I wonder what the other cards will be. Here is for hoping that the green one is a fat eternal witness. "5GG 7/7 trample, regrowth." I'd rock that. What could be the red and white ones? I can't think of iconic white and red spells at uncommon you would feel happy with on a 7 drop. (they may not all be 7s.)
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCramp View Post
    What could be the red and white ones? I can't think of iconic white and red spells at uncommon you would feel happy with on a 7 drop. (they may not all be 7s.)
    That's easy. Final Fortune/Wheel of Fortune for Red and Balance/Armageddon for White

  7. #207
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    I don't even know what quite to say about this one:

    Sundial of the Infinite (2)
    Artifact
    (1){T}: End the turn. Activate this ability only during your turn. (Exile all spells and abilities on the stack. Discard down to your maximum hand size. Damage wears off, and "this turn" and "until end of turn" effects end)



    (As if to respond to the obligatory Legacy Stax comment ("ZOMG ARTIFACT GOOD IN STAX!!!", the author of the article even addresses its synergy in Stax with Tangle Wire/Smokestack.)
    What does this card actually do?
    -Ruins Hive Mind players' day
    -Prevents opponents from casting anything during your end of turn (you activate Sundial in response and remove their spells from the stack)
    -Stops any defensive combat tricks your opponent uses
    -Makes Smokestack really asymmetrical
    -Allows you to not pay for cumulative upkeep costs (not 100% sure on this)

    Plus Chandra. Babe in Standard. Unplayable here.


  8. #208
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Seems like a cute ability in Stax - its really Win-More rather than good in such a deck.
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  9. #209
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Do they really have to have the ping abilities be so weak (points to Chandra Nalaar and Sorin Markov), especially since they're sorcery speed? Would Chandra the Firebrand have been broken if it ping'd 2 damage per turn instead of one?

  10. #210
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Sundial of the Infinite is probably a good replacement for Torpor Orb in decks that run it. It limits you to one creature a turn, and it costs one man per creature, but in return you get more utility out of the card.
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  11. #211
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Sundial of the Infinite is a brilliant card, I love the design. I can't think of much that makes it good right now. Stax and other upkeep-trigger uses are pretty corner cases (you don't want to skip your whole turn unless you're ready for a hard lock & mill). If one such deck manages to include decent tutoring, you could try and play it as a 1-of just because it gives you a completely creatureless kill. Then again, like a Mindslaver lock, it's going to give you a fair bit of draws in Game 2/3 (although it's slightly faster to execute).

    - Good stuff that has lethal / annoying 187 triggers

    This category was already supported by Stifle/Trickbind, with Phyrexian Dreadnought as the gold standard. I don't think Sundial can do more than that, at a quick search Gilded Drake is the only dude with a "can't be countered" clause.

    - Stuff that has shit happen at EOT

    The limiting factor here is that the card must say "at the end of your turn", otherwise shit will still happen on your opponent's turn. There are 40 cards like that. The biggest potential is in cards like Psychic Vortex and Grafted Skullcap. Bleagh.

    - Stuff that has bad shit happen repeatedly

    Things like "whenever you draw a card / play a land / attack, do [bad shit]". Can't think of anything *that* interesting, though.

    I'm afraid it will join the ranks of really long-shot sleeper cards hoping for a Grindstone stroke of luck.

    EDIT: Or maybe not! See a few posts down.
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Sundial of the Infinite is a fantastic card from a design perspective. Solves the Hive Mind problem and makes a trick exist that didn't really exist before. It obviously stops Hive Mind cold. Other things it's neat with or against:

    1. Phyrexian Dreadnought. Dreadnought now has 12 colorless ways to get into play. Also see Hunted Horror and Eater of Days.

    2. Fetches, Brainstorms, Aether Vials, or anything else often activated on your turn.

    3. Final Fortune / Last Chance / Warrior's Oath. Given that the wording is specific for killing you on the extra turn, this'll turn it into a Timewalk. Also, I had no idea there were three versions of this card.

    4. Voyager Staff, Skirk Alarmist, and Apprentice Necromancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Sundial of the Infinite is a fantastic card from a design perspective. Solves the Hive Mind problem and makes a trick exist that didn't really exist before. It obviously stops Hive Mind cold. Other things it's neat with or against:

    1. Phyrexian Dreadnought. Dreadnought now has 12 colorless ways to get into play. Also see Hunted Horror and Eater of Days.

    2. Fetches, Brainstorms, Aether Vials, or anything else often activated on your turn.

    3. Final Fortune / Last Chance / Warrior's Oath. Given that the wording is specific for killing you on the extra turn, this'll turn it into a Timewalk. Also, I had no idea there were three versions of this card.

    4. Voyager Staff, Skirk Alarmist, and Apprentice Necromancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by majikal View Post
    Damn it, Taco, that exactly sums up my opinion on the matter. I need to buy you a beer for that post.

  14. #214
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Sundial of the Infinite is great! It is a nightmare for those End Of Turn shenanigans like Brainstorm, Top, Fact or Fiction, Naturalize-Effects, creature-removal and more.

    It reads: 1, tap: counter target spell or ability.

    So you trade the rest of your turn for an opponents spell ... seems fair to me
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  15. #215
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    I'm glad to see the return of "End the turn" effects. I love Time Stop.

    Question: Does Sundial stop Final Fortune from killing you?

    - Stuff that has bad shit happen repeatedly

    Things like "whenever you draw a card / play a land / attack, do [bad shit]". Can't think of anything *that* interesting, though.

    I'm afraid it will join the ranks of really long-shot sleeper cards hoping for a Grindstone stroke of luck.
    You can use Sundial when you're decked out to stop losing, but using Sundial for that purpose seems unnecessary and I can't think of scenarios where you want to zero your library and still have turns after that, decks like Doomsday and Breakfast tend to kill right away. Perhaps there's a Doomsday pile that can use Sundial?

  16. #216
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Well, Sundial's chances have just gone way up:

    603.7b. A delayed triggered ability will trigger only once--the next time its trigger event occurs--unless it has a stated duration, such as "this turn."
    Meaning that you can use it to permanently block stuff that says "at the beginning of the next end step", and there's a fair more of that. Unearth dudes, Flicker effects including Astral Slide (!), Shallow Grave effects, Ball Lightning and clones, Mimic Vat, and so on.
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  17. #217

    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the event you landed an Isochron's Scepter with Final Chance on it, and a Sundial in play, you could take an extra turn > next turn you pop FC again > end of turn loss triggers > sundial to remove it > infinite turns?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nihil Credo View Post
    Well, Sundial's chances have just gone way up:



    Meaning that you can use it to permanently block stuff that says "at the beginning of the next end step", and there's a fair more of that. Unearth dudes, Flicker effects including Astral Slide (!), Shallow Grave effects, Ball Lightning and clones, Mimic Vat, and so on.
    O_O;; -- So Astral Slide + Sundial = 2 mana: exile target creature?

  18. #218

    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Sundial is going to be banned somewhere. Count on it. :D

  19. #219

    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Just brainstorming:
    Ideas Unbound
    Psychic Vortex

    Infinite turns with Sceptre + Final Fortune is better.

  20. #220
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    Re: [M12 Cards]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kich867 View Post
    So Astral Slide + Sundial = 2 mana: exile target creature?
    Actually, you can remove any number of creatures and then "kill" them with Sundial.

    It looks like a great card. Now we just have to find the best way to break it.
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