[Free Article] 8 Cards That Should Be Unbanned in Legacy

[Shawon]

8 Cards That Should Be Unbanned In Legacy by Wes Wise

The author provides some decent explanations on why 7 cards (he jokingly suggests Balance) could be unbanned and weighs the pros and cons. I'm surprised the author mentioned Gush. I never actually thought Gush could be possibly unbanned since blue = draw = brokenz, but then again Time Spiral got unbanned so unbanning Gush could be in the realm of possibility. I'm also surprised he didn't mention Mana Vault.

Thoughts?

EDIT: Personally, I'm hoping something gets unbanned. I understand WotC tries to use unbanning as a balancing act to offset a card they ban, but honestly, these unbannings are long overdue and something needs to get unbanned at least once this year, bannings or no bannings.

[trivial_matters]

Here we go again.

IMO, this belongs in the B/R speculation thread.

[Shawon]

I considered that, but I'm posting the article here to discuss the article itself, not exclusively unbannings. Discussing a specific author's thoughts feels out-of-place in a B/R thread. But feel free to post it in that B/R thread if you please!

[joemauer]

I read he article and agree with most of his choices except Hermit Druid and earthcraft. I feel those two lead to broken and overly easy combos to put together. Hermit Druid in particular, he's kill him now or lose. With concordant crossroads you don't even get a chance to kill him,right?
Memory jar seems fine. Time reversal and ad naseum have shown the jar might not be so bad.
I am still on the fence about black vise. Could be the nightmares I think back on that used to occur with this thing. Dark rit drop three vises and watch opponent lose, legacy has changed quite a bit since then....dunno.

[kiblast]

I read he article and agree with most of his choices except Hermit Druid and earthcraft. I feel those two lead to broken and overly easy combos to put together. Hermit Druid in particular, he's kill him now or lose. With concordant crossroads you don't even get a chance to kill him,right?
Memory jar seems fine. Time reversal and ad naseum have shown the jar might not be so bad.
I am still on the fence about black vise. Could be the nightmares I think back on that used to occur with this thing. Dark rit drop three vises and watch opponent lose, legacy has changed quite a bit since then....dunno.

What kind of Hermit combo deck would waste slots with Concordant Crossroads? Hermit is just a deck that would goldfish Turn 2 with perfect hands ( Land, ESG/Petal, Hermit), but has some difficulties in having some backup protection since most of the deck would be composed by combo pieces (4 Hermit, 4 Narcomoeba, 4 Cabal Therapy, 1-2 Dread Return, Lord of Extinction, Sutured Ghoul, Dragon's Breath) , 8 cantrips, 4 GSZ, 4 Wordly Tutor, lands ( I don't really know how much, 12-14?) and mana ramp ( 4 ESG and 4 Petals probably) leaving very few space for permission, probably only 4 Pact and 3 Daze (and Therapies, but in a deck like this therapies pre-Hermit activation are really difficult to use properly since you don't have sac outlets and you just need to sniper. Post activation they're broken obviously.). Post side you can hate it with Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Extripate, Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, just to name a few. And these cards are all (some more, some a bit less) currently played in all sideboards. I don't think it would warp the format more than Dredge does.

[Cire]

What kind of Hermit combo deck would waste slots with Concordant Crossroads? Hermit is just a deck that would goldfish Turn 2 with perfect hands ( Land, ESG/Petal, Hermit), but has some difficulties in having some backup protection since most of the deck would be composed by combo pieces (4 Hermit, 4 Narcomoeba, 4 Cabal Therapy, 1-2 Dread Return, Lord of Extinction, Sutured Ghoul, Dragon's Breath) , 8 cantrips, 4 GSZ, 4 Wordly Tutor, lands ( I don't really know how much, 12-14?) and mana ramp ( 4 ESG and 4 Petals probably) leaving very few space for permission, probably only 4 Pact and 3 Daze (and Therapies, but in a deck like this therapies pre-Hermit activation are really difficult to use properly since you don't have sac outlets and you just need to sniper. Post activation they're broken obviously.). Post side you can hate it with Leyline of the Void, Tormod's Crypt, Extripate, Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle, Phyrexian Revoker, just to name a few. And these cards are all (some more, some a bit less) currently played in all sideboards. I don't think it would warp the format more than Dredge does.

10 Land
16 Accel (Spirit guids, Lotus, Chancellor of the tangel)
8 Hermit /GZS
12-14 Combo Stuff
12 Protection (Daze, Chancellor, Mistep, Pact, IDK)

or for the first turn kill

12 Land
16 Accel (Spirit guids, Lotus, Chancellor of the tangel)
8 Hermit /Green Pact
12-14 Combo Stuff
10 cards that grant haste (your land will always provide G or R...and with 12 accel cards that provide G and another 8 that can provide R...you should always be able to produce 1RG mana first turn... Yeah have fun)

Listen those are just a quick drafts but it should be able to power out the druid turn 1 with suprising consitency AND have protection for it pretty much always OR give it haste on the spot.... It doesn't seem that fair IMO. Think about it, lets say it get unbanned, the above quick 2 second lists are already powerful in their way, give it a week in testing and much better players than I will probably decide to slow it down remove the Chancellor of the tangle add in some draw, probably more protection and the optimized version would be even better.

Edit: for the combo filler you only need ( 4 Narcomoeba, 2 Cabal Therapy, 1 Dread Return, 1 Lord of Extinction, 1Sutured Ghoul, 1 Dragon's Breath) or 10 cards ... Im sure if you put in the extra two cards you can reformat the combo into some Mimeoplasm creation that has haste and shroud.. But if they were going to use removal on you they would just use it on the druid anyway so those extra two cards can be more protection or whatever. And Hey we didn't even consider Street Wraith, Prode or manamorphose...

[lordofthepit]

No to Gush. That card is too sick.

[android]

Yeah, despite having like 20-30 of them lying around "just in case", I have to be honest and say Hermit Druid is not a card that they will ever want to unban in Legacy.

[menace13]

Hermit list(based off Xkorpio for Classic online). I swapped the GSZ for the banned Black Tutors. Probably want some Missteps in there as well.

This is a very good deck.

2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
17 Lands

4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Hermit Druid
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Mesmeric Fiend
4 Narcomoeba
1 Stern Proctor
1 Sutured Ghoul
16 Creatures

4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Daze
1 Dragon Breath
1 Dread Return
4 Force of Will
4 Worldly Tutor
4 Green Sun

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

The problem with Hermit Druid is that Cephalid Breakfast is already a deck. One that got a strictly better kill in The Mimeoplasm, even. Hermit Druid gives the deck too much consistency. Or maybe you just play 8 in a GSZ or Living Wish deck. It's a one card combo and it's less safe now than before due to Mental Misstep.

Gush and Memory Jar are retarded cards.

The rest I think are fair to discuss. Land Tax is obvious, Earthcraft is almost certainly safe. Black Vise and Mind Twist seem vestiges of formats that were almost two whole turns slower. Besides, unbanning Black Vise would make Mike T happy.

[Gheizen64]

Gush -> fuck wasteland in exchange for drawing 2 cards. Also make islands better, please no. He list the wasteland interaction as "interesting" but there's nothing interesting about it. Gush player will never gush before waste. Waste is relevant in earlier turns and control has no issues waiting with gush in hand till he hit 3+ lands.
Gush is retarded.

Druid is a 1G win condition that need about 10-15 slots to be devoted to it (4 druid, 3-4 moeba, 2 therapy, 1 dread return +3creaturecombo). Put it in a blue shell and you've got annoying.dec. Misstep also helped the deck immensely, giving it more resistance to discard and most removal. The card doesn't do anything interesting, it's just a "i untap, i win" card akin to Survival after Vengevine got printed.

Jar is on the fence and i've never playtested it in a modern format, but i'd like to keep it on the other side.

Rest are fine.

[Richard Cheese]

If they unban Black Vise, I will go back to playing land destruction, no matter how bad it is, and I'll listen to Bone Thugz-N-Harmony on a Discman during every match.

[Admiral_Arzar]

The problem with Hermit Druid is that Cephalid Breakfast is already a deck. One that got a strictly better kill in The Mimeoplasm, even. Hermit Druid gives the deck too much consistency. Or maybe you just play 8 in a GSZ or Living Wish deck. It's a one card combo and it's less safe now than before due to Mental Misstep.

Gush and Memory Jar are retarded cards.

The rest I think are fair to discuss. Land Tax is obvious, Earthcraft is almost certainly safe. Black Vise and Mind Twist seem vestiges of formats that were almost two whole turns slower. Besides, unbanning Black Vise would make Mike T happy.

Agreed on everything but Jar. The card is pretty much strictly inferior to Time Spiral and Ad Nauseum at this point. Gush is absurd, and we don't need to make tempo-based blue even better. Hermit Druid kind of scares me, although I would play the deck for sure...

[clavio]

I wouldn't say timespiral is strictly better than memory jar. I could see something like...elves running it with some success while time spiral is obviously not practical. I'm sure Jar Elves wouldn't be broken but it would probably be a contender. I'm sure somebody would think of something much more degenerate if they spent more than the three seconds I did thinking about it.

[Koby]

Obvious Belcher with Jar is still ridiculous (and still generally loses to FoW), but the point remains.

[Amon Amarth]

I can't imagine Gush ever coming off now. I really don't think Blue needs more insane card draw. It's also good with Doomsday. Jar I'd be nervous about, I'm sure it'd find a home somewhere. The rest are safe. I don't mind Druid because it dies to everything and is easily hateable. Would make a pretty good deck but man that deck draws some shit hands. Also, not running any basics sucks too.

[Whippoorwill]

I think one of the best uses for Jar would be in MUD since it would refill their hand (for the turn) after they dump their hand.

[Koby]

I think one of the best uses for Jar would be in MUD since it would refill their hand (for the turn) after they dump their hand.

Ya I agree with this. Metalworker + Jar is just asking for trouble.

[Michael Keller]

Not that it matters (because we've covered this over a thousand times before), but I like the viewpoint of unbanning Land Tax with the current prices of Dual Lands in mind. It would inherently bring more players to the forefront sporting basic lands in their decks. It's not necessarily the "best" idea, but it is certainly one avenue they (the D.C.I.) could take in regards to the Reserved List staying put.

[troopatroop]

His argument for Gush being unbanned is, "It's okay in Vintage, and Legacy is less powerful."

I stopped reading there. Put some more thought into it, or get it off the list. Also, anyone who thinks Earthcraft is op needs to L2legacy.