[Free Article] 8 Cards That Should Be Unbanned in Legacy

[menace13]

If this were the case, I'd run 4 Show and Tell into any blue deck just to put Jace TMS into play turn 3.

Seems a poor use of SnT when turn 2 Noble,BoP,Monolith, Signet or anything that makes 1 can do this without letting opponent drop something.

[dontbiteitholmes]

All I've got to say is if they unban Black Vise and Gush, fuck all you guys I'm playing Stasis.

[stasis]

All I've got to say is if they unban Black Vise and Gush, fuck all you guys I'm playing Stasis.

+1

[HAVE HEART]

I hope they do unban Land Tax, so then I can read these same people complain about how awful it is for the format, etc etc.

[Michael Keller]

I like how everyone is ranting about how broken Gush would be in Legacy. Fact is the format we play in is much slower than Vintage - where the player casting the spell would likely have a plethora of available artifact mana open for use. Setting yourself back two turns in exchange for drawing two cards isn't that great (unless it is abused in some sort of "Lands" shell with Horn of Greed, and even then, you already have Cycling lands which functionally act the same way when you consider there are better options in that instance anyway.

Control decks in Legacy want lands to be able to cast spells. Fathom Seer already acts in a similar vain and I just smile whenever it hits the table against me - because I relish knowing my opponents are set back in exchange for cards (with Weathered Wayfarer effectively useless against basics).

That kind of tempo loss could be devastating against the wrong opponent. Ancestral Vision is just better in this format. It doesn't set you back and by the time you would actually want to cast it (Gush), Vision would just be going off anyway - netting you +3 at that turn as opposed to no advantage. Granted, it is a late-game bomb, which is fine, but does it really matter at that point?

Force (of Will) in Vintage as opposed to Force in Legacy is clearly not made from the same fabric; a countered Gush in Legacy is akin to a complete blowout if the alternate cost is paid - even if it is played correctly. And even if you Force back, you're putting yourself in a hole anyways. Mana Drain is not legal in this format, so floating two mana from the Gush to open yourself up to a play after the fact doesn't really matter much. I don't see any reason to keep it banned in Legacy. The card in the right deck would be great, but certainly not broken.

Frantic Search on the other hand...

[Shax]

What exactly would be the best Archtype for a Gush deck? Someone said Doomsday, but Doomsday decks still have the problem Mental Misstep>Dark Ritual. Anything else? I do not think Stasis would be broken enough with Gush for it to make a comeback neither. Gush just seems like a good control card since it dodges waste and gives card advantage. Makes Aether Vial decks better? Iunno but I would like to know what is a broken Gush list.

Fastbond is countered by Mental Misstep, does that mean it should be legal?

[emidln]

You get 16 lifeloss without even using LED for BBBU with Gush. That's a generic pile that assumes that you want to play your own Force of Will, Thoughtseize, and Mental Misstep. It's not terribly difficult to adapt it to use LEDs and Wishes to abuse (read instantly kill) aggro decks and you're always going to get enough storm vs blue.

I dare you to give me Gush.

[Meekrab]

Gush isn't just a free Wasteland counter, it produces mana and draws cards. How anybody could ever imagine unbanning that is beyond me.

[DragoFireheart]

Please, unban Gush so we can quickly demonstrate to anyone ignorant of its power why it shouldn't be unbanned.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

I like how everyone is ranting about how broken Gush would be in Legacy. Fact is the format we play in is much slower than Vintage - where the player casting the spell would likely have a plethora of available artifact mana open for use. Setting yourself back two turns in exchange for drawing two cards isn't that great (unless it is abused in some sort of "Lands" shell with Horn of Greed, and even then, you already have Cycling lands which functionally act the same way when you consider there are better options in that instance anyway.

Control decks in Legacy want lands to be able to cast spells. Fathom Seer already acts in a similar vain and I just smile whenever it hits the table against me - because I relish knowing my opponents are set back in exchange for cards (with Weathered Wayfarer effectively useless against basics).

That kind of tempo loss could be devastating against the wrong opponent. Ancestral Vision is just better in this format. It doesn't set you back and by the time you would actually want to cast it (Gush), Vision would just be going off anyway - netting you +3 at that turn as opposed to no advantage. Granted, it is a late-game bomb, which is fine, but does it really matter at that point?

Force (of Will) in Vintage as opposed to Force in Legacy is clearly not made from the same fabric; a countered Gush in Legacy is akin to a complete blowout if the alternate cost is paid - even if it is played correctly. And even if you Force back, you're putting yourself in a hole anyways. Mana Drain is not legal in this format, so floating two mana from the Gush to open yourself up to a play after the fact doesn't really matter much. I don't see any reason to keep it banned in Legacy. The card in the right deck would be great, but certainly not broken.

Frantic Search on the other hand...

Fathom Seer costs all of three fucking mana more than Gush. That is comparable in the way that Ancestral Recall is comparable to Concentrate.

The slower a format, the better Gush is so I really have no idea what you're talking about here.

[dontbiteitholmes]

What exactly would be the best Archtype for a Gush deck? Someone said Doomsday, but Doomsday decks still have the problem Mental Misstep>Dark Ritual. Anything else? I do not think Stasis would be broken enough with Gush for it to make a comeback neither. Gush just seems like a good control card since it dodges waste and gives card advantage. Makes Aether Vial decks better? Iunno but I would like to know what is a broken Gush list.

Fastbond is countered by Mental Misstep, does that mean it should be legal?

If Gush was unbanned it probably wouldn't take stasis up a notch, but Black Vise would and both at the same time would be awesome IMO because I would love to see the look on people's faces when I'm like Stasis, Gush, Daze, Twart, Black Vise, Mental Misstep.

[Bahamuth]

I don't think most people realise how silly Gush would be in Doomsday combo.

[Admiral_Arzar]

I don't think most people realise how silly Gush would be in Doomsday combo.

There's absolutely nothing silly about a free cantrip that draws 2, adds a storm, dodges Misstep, and dodges Spell Snare :P.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Can we cap all the specific examples of decks that want Gush? The short list is, "Everything that plays blue", which would incidentally be all the viable decks in the format if Gush came off the list.

[(nameless one)]

There's absolutely nothing silly about a free cantrip that draws 2, adds a storm, dodges Misstep, and dodges Spell Snare :P.

Not to mention it saves your non-basic Islands from Wasteland and the like.

[menace13]

Gush is very powerful. It's hard to picture what it does without playing with and against it and the impact that drawing 2 cards for what is essentially free has on a game.

Even a tempo based list for an example. I can untap turn 3 with 2 Islands, play Gush, draw 2, replay a land untapped and have 2 mana in pool, play Goyf/Dreadnought+Stifle/Hymn, and the chance to have more protection/threats in hand. Add to that with Legacy's already anemic land counts and what it can do to Wasteland, which is the most played card that is not a basic land. Any deck not playing Gush loses to that in an attrition war.

Gush is great to play with not so much against and it is not for Legacy

The format has diversity and that is what keeps people interested In brewing, testing and subsequently in playing over and over again.

[Dark Ritual]

Yeah gush is completely fair except not really. As I once read a quote on this board "Gush protects threshold's lands at the steep cost of DRAWING CARDS." Gush should never come off if it does every single deck I play would abuse that card. Doomsday would be stupid. Tempo Thresh would be stupid. U/X.dec would be stupid etc. etc.

Also in doomsday gush would be just plain stupid. I can't stress how much fun emidln would have playing 4 gush in a doomsday list and how broken it would be. It breaks LED even more. And someone said mental misstep counters dark ritual in DDFT. Big whoop. What if you go cabal rit, doomsday with that handy MM in hand? What then? Mental misstep isn't the end of combo; anyone who is familiar with combo and knows how to pilot it can put up results with it. See: Scott Limoges, hadn't played in a tournament for over 2 years, took ANT with 4 gitaxian probe's and top 8'ed with it. In fact, mental misstep actually helps storm because people devote less SB hate to combo with their 4 misstep's and 4 force's MD which realistically cannot beat combo by itself.

[nedleeds]

I remember it back in 1.5, and it was slow and annoying, to be honest.

-Matt

SDT is far more annoying, slow and promotes cheating far more than Land Tax ever did. Oh ... did I mention it's also ubiquitous? colorless? and near impossible to destroy.

Unban Land Tax.