I've seen lists with many different conbinations of equipment in stoneforge mystic decks. Some are plain wrong IMO and I'd like to clear this up. I believe there should be an ideal package for each type of sfm deck. Here's my view on it:
Creature light sfm control:
These are the stoneblade UWx decks we have been seeing recently. As the deck is creature light, jitte is less useful because you have to feed an equipped creature to an opposing goyf to get counters in order to be able to buff your next dude. If you run few creatures, in many situations, sfm will be your only dude in play. IMO the best equipment for this deck is batterskull and sword of body and mind. Batterskull is obviously really good as it is a decent creature by itself. Why sobm over sofi and soff? The colours blue and green are the most relevant. The most common creatures in legacy are merfolk and goyf/necatl/kotr. Therefore, sobm is the best sword even though sofi/soff has better abilities.
Heavy ground based creature decks:
Examples of this kind of deck would be Dragon Stompy, Wg maverick or Bw deadguy. These decks have plenty of utility weenies and never run out of dudes. I believe that the best equipment for these kind of decks are Umezawa's Jitte and sword of body and mind. The pointy stick is obviously godly and since these kind of decks have no shortage of creatures, saccing a dude to get counters is no problem. Sobm is the best sword with the most relevant colours as previously mentioned. A bear a turn is nothing to laugh at either.
Why no batterskull? I strongly believe batterskull is crap in these kind of decks. In testing, a t3 batterskull is no big deal. Against aggro, sure it really hurts merfolk/zoo's clock but it simply doesn't win games in the mid range slugfest. Creature heavy decks don't need equipment to help stabilize/stall out games, they need bomby equipment that totally swings the game in their favor. Jitte and sobm do just that, batterskull is more often than not a rhox war monk. Batterskull should be equip no 3 at best. This is in case you kept a creature light hand and need the body.
Evasive equipment decks:
This would be decks like Angel stompy or faerie stompy with a bunch of flyers. When you have evasive creatures you are pretty sure to connect with the opponent, so you want equipment with the best abilities irrespective of protection colours. IMO the best equip is sword of fire and ice and umezawa's jitte. Card drawing and shock everyturn is by far the most powerful ability. Soff's untap is pretty useless as in an aggro deck like this, equips should be the last cards out of your hand, you will likely have nothing in hand to cast once you connect with soff. Sols is also not great since lifegain is not that important as jitte can also gain you life. Disentomb effects are also not great in a format of stp. Having no creatures in the yard is pretty common if your creatures are evasive and swinging.
Sword of war and peace is a very swingy card that has no place in legacy. Against control, you want card advantage/tempo which sofi/batterskull gives you. Against aggro, you want pro the right colours/break the creature deadlock which sobm/jitte provides. Against combo all equips come down way too slow to matter anyway. Basically, Sowp is only good at swinging past caws/sfm in standard. In legacy, its pretty bad.
Cheers, and let me know your opinions.
I think that SoLS is heavily underrated. 5 years ago, I'd say there was no contest and that SoFI was hands down better. Now, in the decks like BW or GW where you recommend SoBM, I think SoLS is easily superior. SoBM should basically never see play. But where a Sword is going to shine in those decks is against a deck with a control role in the matchup because every threat is a lethal one. In x/W, equipment is bad against combo and generally too slow against a Zoo like aggro or burn. Fish eventually reaches critical mass no matter what protections you have. 6 5/5's doesn't care about a protection wall. You're still taking 25. And SoBM isn't doing anything for you prior to that point that +2/+2 isn't already doing. They're not chumping with a lord unless it's lethal anyway. But what can be relevant is getting back cards that were countered or dismembered or just had to chump a 10/10 KotR or that 5/5 Reejeray.
Originally Posted by Draener
If your opponent has five 5/5s, you are losing that game regardless of what equipment you play. Getting back a dude to block will not help you. Realistically, equip comes down turns 3/4 and you have some minor disruption for your opponents horde, such as stp/pridemage on vial. Realistically, equipment is most effective at breaking deadlocked boards. Jitte and sobm are very good at this and net you tempo. Jitte gives you point removal while sobm allows you to connect/ makes bears, which is very relevant. Sols ability is really good but you underestimate merfolk's willingness to chump.
You are not really arguing that sols is better than sobm against folk right? On a deadlocked board, I can swing with sobm, deal some damage, get a bear, then reequip sobm to the bear for blocking duty! Sols just earns a chump and an alpha strike the next turn. Also sobm puts the bear straight into play. Returning a dude to hand still requires you to cast it. In real life testing sobm is the best sword by a long mile in legacy right now. It used to be sofi, but goblins is becoming less popular and junk/gw/zoo is much more common. Sobm is really really good in those matchups.
I think you are looking down on the Sowp's damage output and life swings power lvl. I have been playing with Sowp alot lately and found it looks down and wins games just 0-2 turns after its active. Its really hard to race the sword when you get 4+ lives per turn and take 2 + cards in hand extra worth of damage while being protected from your STP, PTE or bolts. Sowp closes games fast, increases your clock while decreasing theirs.
IMO Batterskull should be in all the stoneforge decks, at "worst" its an extra creature you can get into play. Considering it only takes 1 spot as the deck already runs Stoneforges to begin with.
Depends on what deck you're running. Tbh, I'm not really all that excited about any Sword against Fish, as equipment is slow and if I'm dropping a Sword against them it means I naturally drew it (if I SFM'd, it would've been Jitte), i.e. 5 mana. For that same 5 mana, I can drop a Tarmogoyf and a KotR or a RWM. I'm not going to argue with you, you can think whatever you want and run whatever you want. It's no skin off my nose either way.
One thing that needs to be considered is how many Stoneforge you are running. In a UW deck with four, you want a Batterskull. In a Bant deck with a pair of Mystics, you can't consistently pay 1W+1W for a turn three Baneslayer.
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I hate it when people say you have protection from swords/bolts etc when comparing to sobm. The fact is that if you are equipping your creature, it will get killed in response. If you are stone forging for war and peace you are obviously telegraphing your next play and they will keep mana open for removal. Against topdecked removal, sobm also protects your creature in a different way, it makes more bears! Bears can also pick up the sword. I know how swingy sowp is, the problem is connecting with it. How do you plan to actually connect with a sowp? The protection colours are not very useful. On an empty board with no blockers, you are already ahead and any sword will wrap up the game. Honestly I'd rather have sobm which turns a bad/neutral board position into a positive one.
The bash, make token, equip token can lock down 2 huge creatures while bashing for damage everyturn. For example, I can kill an opponent with 2 goyfs with my lonely heirarch equipped with sobm by bashing, make a token, equip token. He bashes back, I block 1 guy. Next turn I swing with my equiped bear and get another bear. I reequip my noble heirarch and voilà I have 2 blockers. Repeat. Sobm can really turn around games. With a sowp, I'll just sit and stare at a goyf wall while being beaten to death by the other goyf. A +2/+2 buff is not that big against 5/6 goyfs or 8/8 kotrs.
I agree with the OP overall. My own opinions are almost dead on.
However, I am still seeing strong results with sowp in Dragon Stompy and in my opinion this is the only deck that can justify running it. It just happens to work in dragon stompy for me and I hope some other people give it a shot in that deck. More on that in the DS thread.
I have a threat light control deck and I'm really digging on the sobm at the moment even though I feel that dredge is experiencing somewhat of a resurgence due to less grave hate despite mental misstep.
To connect with fliers like bitterblossom tokens and Blinkmoth Nexus. Just to clarify I didnt compare it to sobm, wich I find to be really strong atm.
TBH I like all the swords but Sols. I use in a deadguy shell with 4 sfm, 4 blossoms and a Blinkmoth, Jitte, sofi, sobm, skull main and board manriki-gusari and a sowp.
In my UWr control deck I run 1xJitte 1xSoFF 1xBaterskull (and 11 Creatures). I think this is the best possible combination for such deck.
Jitte is necessary for a bunch of match ups, and in others you simply fetch different equipment. I wouldn't run equipment package without it, since jitte is THAT good against some decks, and I have a creature with evasion too (Clique) and some removal to clear the way.
SoFF is the best sword here since it gives protection from Green (highly relevant in the format) and untaps your lands (deck eats a lot of mana!). There's nothing better than attacking, untapping into Jace and bouncing. Bouncing next turn then making them discard the card. Seriously, this sword is THAT good.
SoBM, while having good protections, has sucky abilities. Milling them is irrelevant most of the time and 2/2 Token, uhm, isn't that impressive. I prefer Lavamancer and 6x StP effects to deal with Folk, and its not like that protection really helps, as they can just load off a Lord of Atlantis and slide through with islandwalk.
SoLS isn't that good considering the amount of creatures I run, and batterskull is just better for lifegain.
For SoFI I only have 3 Cliques with evasion, meaning that I can't hit through a wall of green creatures for any value with my other creatures. And my deck has a bunch of draw anyway.
Don't run SoBM in your control decks. Its much better in a shell like BW, though I think SoLS and SoFF both would be better even there.
As others have said, the best package depends on the particular deck. Batterskull, for example, is much better in a control deck in which you have protect your Mystic with countermagic and get to five mana in case you need to hard cast it.
Umezawa's Jitte seems like the best equipment for most decks because it only costs two to hard cast. You can sometimes get it on the board and start swinging with it faster than its competitors. For this reason, I really like it as a tutorable one-of.
The five "swords" is obviously about the metagame to some extent and which colors you are most likely to face. All of these swords give +2/+2, protection from two colors, and two triggered abilities when they connect with players. To another extent, the best swords are those with triggered abilities that produce card advantage. Let's look at them.
Sword of Fire and Ice: I think that this is regarded by most as the best sword because it will always net you an extra card when it connect and sometimes a +2 card advantage if there is a 2-toughness or less targettable creature that you want to kill. This is the only sword that will often give you a +2 card advantage. Shock and drawing a card are great abilities.
Sword of Light and Shadow: This card will only give you a +1 card advantage at best if you have a creature in your graveyard. The life gain can be good, but it's a below average ability that generates no card advantage.
Sword of Body and Mind: This will always generate exactly a +1 card advantage. Creating a 2/2 body is nice for a deck that is using equipment, however the mill ability will rarely be relevant.
Sword of Feast and Famine: This will usually generate a +1 card advantage, unless the opponent has no cards in hand or has shroud. Of course, forcing an opponent to choose and discard a card is much weaker than drawing a card from SoFI. The tempo boost from the other ability can be very nice, but it doesn't produce card advantage.
Sword of War and Peace: This is the only sword that will never generate any card advantage. It's all about the life total swing. That's why I think this is the weakest sword overall.
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If you are playing SFM with equipment in a deck against Merfolk, and you resolve a SFM, I'm not sure how you are losing to 6 5/5's. sof&I is that good. All you need to do is resolve one card. Use your STP to pick off as many of their lords as you can, and bait them into wasting their counters on your other cards. It's really not hard to beat Merfolk with a resolved mystic.
My 2 cents:
Jitte: used to be the best, now possibly the 2nd worst. Like previously stated, this card is only relevant if it comes down early, or to help board stalls. The legacy metagame is no longer favorable to this equipment. At this point I can empathize with those of you who play goblins or merfolk, white weenie variants, and possibly zoo to run it maindeck. However, if you are playing sfm in your deck, there will always be a better target.
Batterskull: best equipment, bar none. I don't need to repeat what's been said about this card. Its printing has made sfm easily one of the best creatures in legacy.
Sobm: this is probably the second best equipment at the moment. It gives you protection from the format, and is, quite frankly, a mishras factory factory. The milling is always relevant. I can come back from a clique hitting twice with a sofi, but never from getting sobmized.
Soff: run this if you expect bug decks. That's about it. Its also very useful in control mirrors. Not for the protection, but from untapping and forcing them to discard. I don't think it is maindeckable.
Sofi: maindeckable if you can't beat merfolk yet. Although with batterskull, if you can't beat merfolk yet, quit playing magic. I run one in my uw sideboard, because I actually enjoy terrorizing merfolk players, but not because it is needed.
Sosl: meh on all levels. Unless you are running some crappy junk deck with eternal witness themed cards, don't even bother. Probably the worst sword.
Sowp: untill we see a comeback of astral slide in legacy, I can't justify running this in a md or sb. Its protection colors are largley irrelevant, but if it does connect, the damage and lifegain are quite useful. There are better equipment to run in its slot.
Conclusion: jitte only if you run 20ish dudes. Batterskull if you run sfm. Sobm if you play blue. Soff if you can't beat bug, or sb in controll mirrors. Sofi if you like fried fish. Sols if you're a donk, and sowp if you want to mess you combat math.
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I don't know what you are talking about, SpikeyMikey. Mystic is probably the single best card against Merfolk since Misstep was printed. For aggro-ish builds against them, it is the top game plan.
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Like someone already said, it depends on the deck and the number of Mystics. I wouldn't run Batterskull if I have less than three Mystics. I've been running BW with four Mystics for a while(not the infi utility creatures, don't like em at all), I run Jitte, Batterskull, and Body/Mind. I don't see the point of Sword of Fire and Ice. Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull both wreck Merfolk(and Goblins) already, I'd rather have my other equipment do something against my other matchups. Pro green with a 2/2 chump/equip body helps me do that. Sword of Light and Shadow in my sb(sometimes) helps me against the newer control decks' removal.
Batterskull is just awesome against anything except storm combo, and even there it has its uses, gaining life and being a quicker clock.
To me, the baseline is Jitte and Batterskull, since they're extremely versatile. Then a Sword that is tailored to your meta. And maybe one in the sideboard. If you run two or three Mystics, then I'd just run Jitte and a Sword.
Jitte:
Removal, pump, lifegain, in that order
Batterskull:
Early powerful creature, lifegain, resilient creature, in that order.
Sword of Such and Such:
Antideck pro colors and abilities, evasion, card advantage, in that order.
I haven't tested Sword of War and Peace yet, it seems good but situational. I won't like having it deal 2 extra damage or less.
4x Stoneforge, 2x Batterskull, 0x Anything else if you're trying to play Angel control. If you're running an actual creature deck drop the Batterskulls and run Jitte which is clearly the best equipment generally. It is in fact the only equipment where you'd actually think about just running 3 of them and fuck the Mystics (particularly if you're already running three other colors).
After those two you pick Swords based on what matchups you expect/want to show up, with SoFI and SoLS offering the best utility, SoFF a distant third, and SoBM probably offering the best color protection. Also if Batterskull is wrecking Goblins in your testing your Goblins opponents are terrible.
People also topdeck/dig for removal, so I don't think removal protection is as irrelevant as people think. Especially on Swords that don't actually have much impact when they hit (looking at you, SoWP).
Basilisk Collar is interesting with Lavamancer or first strikers, also Trinket Mage obv.
One equipment I had played against me recently that wrecked my day and I think might be worth more testing is Lightning Greaves.
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I'm actually a large fan of Light and Shadow over most of them in just about every deck. It doesn't have that swing like some of the others, but the sheer unkillability of the creature once it's equipped is nothing to ignore. Especially, with people starting to use GFTT more often and swords already being prevalent, it seems like a good choice to equip and keep pounding without interference once you get past the kill in response part. It always seems to make it into at least the board of any deck I have using Stoneforge. That's just me though.
It's also brutal with Scalding Salamander as a repeatable, one-sided Wrath of God on a stick against anything that doesn't fly or has protection.
Grim Lavamancer is obviously a way better and more versatile stand-alone card, though.
You have a very weird approach to this issue imo.
There is, and there will never be an optimal package for a SFM deck.
Lets take GW maverick f.e. If you play say 3 mirran crusaders feast and famine becomes a little excessive, you would rather have a sword that gives you edge against decks not GB. Like fire and ice, which seems to get no love these days as all the pros only play B&M in their stoneblade decks.
You do not have an issue with stupid green ground pounders, prot green is not that valuable to maverick. You have your own meat to match theirs (unless you jam your deck full of rangers and other crap like that) and moms to get an edge. Prot blue is also not that relevant, as Jace is not as much of an issue to you (unless you are already in a losing position, then its a nail in the coffin), and merfolk is practically a bye.
You should also not forget that this is the sword that has a DRAWBACK of milling ten. I've in my limited testing already hit darkblast, life from the loam, vengevine and punishing fire. Cards i'd rather not have them have.
It's also very awkward with KOTR on the other side..
Just saying I've been thoroughly unimpressed by this one in maverick.
When choosing the sword, I tend to go with the one that helps the mu where my current build is at its weakest while considering the mu's i probably will face. Some people call this metagaming.
Just saying it's not as simple as "the best package for a deck", as your list and everyone elses lists will change from week to week.
But then again, I also think batterskull is very good in GW meatwagon.
Here's what I've been running in my GWu Maverick Deck
1 Batterskull- Anyone who thinks Batterskull doesn't beling in the deck is what I like to call "wrong" It it an auto win against anything red-based, and turns Stoneforge from a decent utility guy to a bomb
1 Umezewa's Jitte- Though not too special, it is just an auto win against Elves, Goblins, and is very, very strong against Merfolk, though I'll admit that it isn't an auto-win against them. Also very strong against any burn based decks
1 Sword of Fire and Ice/Sword of Feast and Famine- I truely can't decide what's better here. Fire and Ice isn't too hot considering that the only MUs it's really good in is Goblins and Merfolk, but Merfolk's creatures are often out of the blast range, and we already have Jitte and Batterskull for Goblins. That being said, it is very strong against Janky, random decks.
Feast and Famine on the other hand, gives much needed help against midrange and tempo, as well as better protection colors. However, unlike Fire and Ice, it is just the nut low against random janky decks.
All being said, I'm leaning more towards Feast and Famine.
I also agree that Light and Shadow is terribly underrated, and that both Body and Mind and War and Peace are pretty much unplayable
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