List of answers to SFM-based decks

[GGoober]

So, this is my sincere attempt to reminding the Source/Legacy community in general that SFM-based decks have shown recent success, but it is my honest opinion that part of the success wasn't attributed to the unstoppable power-level of SFM in the format. Don't get me wrong, I think SFM-based strategy is a very strong strategy in Legacy, primarily skewing advantage for mid-ranged decks. Batterskull is a nice addition, along with many commonly played equipments: SoFS/Jitte and some other rising choices: SoBM/SoFF

It is my view that since we only have a ton of SFM decks/threads encouraging people to try out SFM.deck, it is not surprising that the popularity of SFM-based decks are also contributing itself to more frequent results in tournaments. I want to post this thread so we can remind ourselves that our whinings about Lackey/Counterbalance/Top as being 'too-powerful' have all met up with solutions. It is the community's choice to spread the other side of the news, that SFM strategy is a strong one, but actually a fairly easy one to stop.

Here's a list that I have off the top of my head:

Pin-point removal (works best when they fetch Batterskull)
StP
Path
Bolt
Lavamancer
Ghastly Demise
Innocent Blood
Smother
GFTT
Etc
Punishing Fire (recurring removal and great against non GW mystic-based decks e.g. Team Italia or BWx SFM)


[B]Discard/Counters (surprisingly, Discard is a less obvious out to SFM. It gives them a Squire with the ability to cheat equipments that they subsequently draw but it discards the initial tutoring of the equipment)
Thoughtseize (also nabs SFM before it comes to play)
Inquisition of Kozilek (Also nabs SFM before it comes to play)
Duress (nabs equipment, usually you don't want to board this in unless it's Esper Stoneblade lists playing just ~8 creatures)
counterspell
Stifle/Trickbind (these are great against SFM)

Artifact Removal
Krosan Grip (Guys, it's time to bring this baby back, there's no counterbalance, but there's the Batterskull that people always whine for/against, let's just put this to an end, split second style)
Ancient Grudge (it doesn't necessarily remove Batterskull if they play around it, but you get so much tempo out of this card by forcing them to keep mana open in fear of losing Batterskull that the tempo gained from them being stupid is enough to win games)
Pithing Needle (not ideal but stops Mystics or the equipment itself)


Strategies:
SFM decks tend to fall under the mid-range decks. It's a tremendously powerful card-advantage strategy that wins games if it connects. To beat such a strategy, you really need to focus on countering/stopping SFM's ability by counters/discard/stifles/removal. The big mistake is assuming you can let a SFM slip in and be fine even if they get the equipment online. The damage is really done when the equipment is in play, because every threat they play is much better than the origianl creature they ran. Goyfs become assymetric with Equipments, equipments with the relevant pro colors will now win games, Jitte wins games, aggro loses to Batterskull etc.

The goal is to stop the initial Mystic and I think many people still underestimate and let the SFM ability slip through, only to fight an uphill battle. The other solution is to pack a ton of removal, while having the ability to play fast threats, and just out tempo them (this works in Tempo.dec). If you feel you can just keep them tempo'd for 2-4 turns when the SFM player is desperately trying to equip creatures, this is a good strategy to take (this is where Grudge is great against SFM-equipments even if the Batterskull player can play around it, it forces them to stop playing threats and be overly focused on protecting their Batterskull).

I'm sure there's a lot more advice, so please chime in. The goal of the thread isn't for us to troll each other, but to increase awareness of ANTI-SFM strategies in a sea of pro-SFM articles/threads.

Once again, we all thought we couldn't beat Lackey, Countertop, Natural Order, Show and Tell. Let's work together and remind ourselves how foolish we were. People just need to be reminded there's a ton of good decks in Legacy, a ton of good cards, nothing is truly broken (except Flash and maybe Survival)

[ThoSha]

That was highly enlightening.
I agree on Krosan Grip a lot if you draw it, but other hate might find place as well.
I already posted in the burn thread that Sudden Shock has some serious impact on this metagame too, it might be considered in some decks as uncounterable SFM/Merfolk Lord removal.

Great work, thumbs up! Dont let those stupid SFM decks rape Legacy.

[gottfrid]

It is usually very obvious when they are going to activate SFM. I find that a lot of times vendilion clique is really good since you just wait for them to activate and clique away their equipment in response. This, of course works better the fewer equipment they have in the deck since they could draw into a new one.

[wcm8]

A preemptive Null Rod makes all of their equipment useless (you still need to find removal for the germ token though). Null Rod also hoses another DTB, painter stone.

[Tammit67]

If you opponent is going to waste time setting something up, just go fucking kill them.

Day[J] made me do it.

[TkDodo]

Because I think it's amazing how many people don't know it (at least that's what I found out), here is an "answer" to any sword of A and B:
Painter's Servant turns them all off.
They play SFM for Sword of Fire and Ice, I play Painter naming blue. They bring the sword in and equip the mystic, which works, but now when the protection is granted, the sword falls off as a SBE because the creature has protection from the sword, because it is blue itself. So they wasted two turns to get out a useless equipment. Really funny how often it works.

[Koby]

Answering the equipment itself:
Pithing Needle
Null Rod
Damping Matrix (bonus for stopping SFM, KotR, and QPM too)
Energy Flux (weak)

Answering the strategy:
Suppression Field

Answers to Living Weapon:
Reality Ripple

Tempo-based solutions:
Stifle
bounce

Beating the Strategy in general:
Play Storm combo
Play Hivemind combo
Play Elves combo (bonus for having Viridian Shaman + Wirewood Symbiote)

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

Pernicious Deed
Nevinyrral's Disk
Oblivion Stone
Akroma's Vengeance
Austere Command
Planar Cleansing
(Depending on rest of strategy)
Engineered Explosives
Ratchet Bomb
Punishment

(The last I've been playing a bit recently and it's actually shockingly good.)

But seriously, why does no one play sweepers anymore even in Landstill.

[Shawon]

I think Pox effects are particularly useful against Mystic. Kills Mystic, and cuts a land to make it harder to cast that Equipment.

[hyc8028]

You guys forgot Manriki-Gusari, which can be fetch to answer opponent equipment.

[Koby]

You guys forgot Manriki-Gusari, which can be fetch to answer opponent equipment.

Mostly because you're already playing SFM to be able to use it properly. ^_^

[bruizar]

The answer I like best is punishing fire as it deals with mystic and a resolve d batterskull

[John Cox]

Bant also has alot at it's disposal, qasali pridemage and aven mindcensor are huge.

[dahcmai]

I'm personally starting to wonder about this deck since I have been playing my own for a bit and it's just ending up looking like Legacy Caw Blade again with Vendellion Clique taking the spot of Hawks. This deck has performed so well so far it's making me think it might be overly good. I demolished two goblins decks today with a control deck without bothering to board. That's kind of scary.

[Phoenix Ignition]

If you opponent is going to waste time setting something up, just go fucking kill them.

Day[J] made me do it.

=D

I love this strategy. It not only works in SC2, it works in so many other games.

If the opponent is doing really annoying shit and spending all their time/resources setting stuff up JUST GO FUCKING KILL THEM. Combo, zoo, what have you, if someone is playing for the mid/late game just play to kill before their strategy takes hold.

Also hitting the manabase is really good against most equipment decks.

[Tao]

*loves Day9 wholeheartedly
But killing them instead of dealing with SFM is not going to work if SFM searched for Batterskull.

[Mantis]

Every deck has answers to Batterskull. Goblins has Tin Street, Merfolk has counters and Dismember, Zoo has burn, Qasali and Path, Landstill has StP, Jace and counters, Storm can just go fucking kill them etc. etc.

Even though SFM might be in the best decks, I don't really see how its a problem. It reminds me of Tarmogoyf, the best deck played him but it was never a big problem.

[GGoober]

I forgot this card: Submerge. Wow just wow, only works against GWx builds (the popular ones these days).

[Finn]

Jack, I think you ought to play Austere Command, Planar Cleansing, and Akroma's Vengeance. The rest of us like to actually cast our spells.

Spell Snare has always worked well against it. And since 2 is the new 1 in Legacy cmc, it is a good spell anyway.

Orim's Thunder does a nice job of removing the card advantage of Mystic.

Phyrexian Revoker is insanely good right now. This is just one more application in which it is particularly fun - especially if you have an Aether Vial.

Then there is Viashino Heretic. Good times.

Submerge is an idea that borders on trolling especially when we are open to Lightning Bolt and Swords to Plowshares. Pox is nearly as bad. Well, actually Pox is a very bad card played in very bad decks. But in this case, it is only nearly as bad as Submerge.

[Tombstalker]

Ive come to learn SFM + BS is a pain in the ass pretty often even if you pack answers for it. That aside Im currently enjoying using phyrexian metamorph against it. make my own BS and if that fails just return it to my hand and cast it as something else :)