@AriLax, It has nine fetchlands now. If you go to 10 and only three Seas, that is one fewer black source of mana (or blue, you choose). I'm at 16 and 14 now, so this is not a huge deal. In fact, I rather like it even though I would probably go with Bloodstained Mire rather than another Scalding Tarn. But if I go and swap out some more lands for Ancient Tombs, as others have done, it is looking rather shaky.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
What do you do if your opponent manage to sword a Narcomoeba? In Response to anything so you have only 2 left and can't play Dread Return any more.
Drakes claim to be dragons-until the dragons show up.
The dust can count only to 50.
Angels attacked them,............ with swords.
You dont give them the opportunity. keep cycling through you deck until you hit 1 Narc followed by a cabal therapy. once the therapy hits the grave allow the narc trigger to resolve, then flash the therapy naming swords. repeat this process until they have nothing scary in thier hand.Originally Posted by Gollus
Why is it called the "four horseman"? I only count 2 (sharuum and emrakul...?)
Edit: what about the addition of goblin welder given that it is already an artifact-based combo? It seems that if this is online you don't need to mill into all three narcomoebas or even dread return (even though you will need it for the blasting stage of the combo). Only downside is having to go into three colours :S
Welder Orbolith
Core (19)
4 Narcomoeba
1 Dread Return
1 Blasting Station
4 Basalt Monolith
4 Mesmeric Orb
3 Goblin Welder
1 Sharuum the Hegemon
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Search (13)
4 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Lim-Dul's Vault
1 Sensei's Divining Top
Protection (12)
4 Force of Will
3 Mental Misstep
2 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
Mana (16)
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Swamp
3 Island
1 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
Last edited by randomly.anonymous; 07-07-2011 at 09:03 AM. Reason: Provided a list
It's not one fewer source though. Your fetches are the same as duals. I have never had a fetch land not get me the color I wanted in a UB combo deck, unless the "color I wanted" was a basic Island/Swamp and the fetchland was the wrong kind to get it.
Once you start playing Ancient Tombs though, you might want to consider if you even care about getting Wasted any more (aka do you plan on using Tomb more than once?).
I'm just curious why people are running sharum over sun titan.
Advantages
1.6/6 > 5/5 if you have to resort to racing
2.does not die to artifact removal
3.reusable every turn "can also get back narcos or lands"
4.vigilence> flying if ur racing
5.....gain one more life off of a swords???
Disadvantages
1. WW in castingcost "how often have u actually hard cast sharum?"
2. Dies to doomblade"much less relavent than artifact hate
Conclusion
even though his advantages are only rare occasions, they far outweigh the disadvantages vs sharum
...
Last edited by Serbitar; 07-07-2011 at 11:07 AM. Reason: Guess I should read the opening post ^^
Not sure if you're serious about Sun Titan based on the examples given.
If you have to resort to attacking with either of the creatures, you've probably already lost.
4. Moat > Vigilance
1. Its much easier to fetch for a lone Tundra if I need to cast Sharuum than 2 white sources when there's no other white cards.
2. Also dies to Go for the Throat, Snuff Out and a bunch of other stuff.
Sharuum can also be pitched to Force since you can just cast the Blasting Station.
some question i ve asked the guy who top 4 with this deck
#about the kills
why not Maga, Traitor to Mortals + The Mimeoplasm + Lord Of Extinction ?
Takes Only 3 slot immune to damage prevention, to removal, to needle & Null rod (yeah well the initial combo no but ... still !) + instant speed kill. (can only fail to stifle on maga cip trigger)
About Narcomoeba i agree with the previous comments it definitely needs 4 of them "just in case".
as for the manabase 2 Usea should be enough.
also as sideboard idea, better than Emy as it s less and less a relevant kill.
4 Hivemind
4 S&T
3 Red Pact
1 Green Pact
1 Black Pact
2 Bleu Pact
One last thing ave you tried Intuition over LDV ?
Last edited by ryO!; 07-08-2011 at 09:09 AM.
Love the deck.
Outside of transformational sideboards, I'm wondering about the value/impact of other sb cards:
- Altar of Dementia (an out to several things, including Needle, Runed Halo, etc.)
- Ancient Grudge and/or Ray of Revelation (does some fantastic work for you, but you need to adjust the mana-base, which can reasonably be done)
- Bridge from Below (solves some problems, often win-more though)
- Phantasmagorian for some awkward situations. Frankly, I don't like having to use Therapy on my own hand.
I'm advocating none of them. I'm just brainstorming.
Also, I'm not yet convinced we don't want the 4th Narcomoeba.
peace,
4eak
Needs more Intuition and artifact lands.
i feel like if your adding welders and intuitions and the artifact lands you might as well play painters stone. i have tested intuition and despite how awesome of a card it is it isnt as optimal in this deck as you would think. i ahve been playing four lim duls vault, 4 b storm, 4 poner, 4 probe as my dig and havent had any problems consistently goin off turn 4-5 with alll the protection you would ever need. another thing about adding intuition is you will find yourself wanting to add life from the loam and academy ruins and im sure you will end up at the same conclusion as finn and myself where you find that none of them(including intuition) mare necessary to the performance of the deck. howefver if you insist on playing welder with this combo then you will most def want to play intuition. im just saying that i feel you will find it subpar to how good you expect it to be. just trying to save you some time testing because trust me i have tested it and it just doesnt feel optimal. (it is really fun however to go EOT intuition into three fatestitchers (which i also cut) with an orb on the play to win the game lol)
The Source requires proper grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and sentence structure. You have 8 posts on this site, and they all break the rules. Change your posting habits, please.
-4eak
What do you guys think about 4 Cabal Therapy vs. 4 Thoughtseize? I'm thinking that the fourth cabal therapy probably has more value here. Thoughts?
Welder is not as good as in Painter as you need both combo pieces at the same time.
White for Enlighted Tutor looks much more appealing, besides giving you both combo pieces, it enables a silver bullet sideboard with all kinds of possiblities. Similiar to Reanimators sideboard when Mystical was still legal.
White also offers Silence / Chant, which would allow to reduce the Cabal Therapy / Thoughtseize count. Not that I cosider them better or necessary, it simply another option on top of ET. Even STP can be considered in the face of Revoker or other annoying creatures Just saying, ET is still the main selling point.
While it cannot find Show & Tell or Emrakul, it stil can find a singleton Sphinx of the Steelwind or BSC
BBB
Yes. They are. So I don't know why I should be switching to more fetchlands. One costs me an extra life. One I can leave unused and temporarily safe from Wasteland. That happens from time to time of course, but not in greater frequency than how often I go to exactly zero life. Or at least to a degree that it is worth discussing. Seriously though, is there some other feature that I am not considering?
@Tombs: In its current configuration, this deck occasionally wanders around searching for components over too many turns. If the deck could somehow support four Ancient Tombs and four Dark Rituals or something, I would certainly be looking at Intuition to solve this issue.
"Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made President should on no account be allowed to do the job."
"Politicians are like diapers. They should be changed often and for the same reason."
"Governing is too important to be left to people as silly as politicians."
"Politicians were mostly people who'd had too little morals and ethics to stay lawyers."
the problem with runnin four therapy over four thoughtseize is that thoughtseize is guarunteed to let you hit a counter in their hand rather than therapy where you can only name one and hope to hit it. if you run four therapy over four seize you would want to add more creatures to reliably flash it back precombo to help u resolve and adding more creatures is not what we want to do. in regards to enlightened tutor it does seem like it has a place in here at first, but after testing you find it is not near as good as you would expect because unlike limduls vault you cant reliably cast it under a mesmeric orb that is on the field because your target gets milled which means you would have to do it before you resolved your orb which would slow you down or you have to do it in your upkeep which also slows you down. and elightened also gets hit by misstep which we do a fairly good job of avoiding by running vault. vault also allows you to safely dig for a combo piece with an orb already on field and can also randomly win you the game.(by finding a stack that has both pieces, or the piece you need with protection.
You did not heed the warning I gave you above.
The Source requires proper grammar, punctuation, capitalization, and sentence structure. You have 9 posts on this site, and they all break the rules. Change your posting habits, please.
Next time, you will receive an infraction.
-4eak
Last edited by 4eak; 07-08-2011 at 09:50 PM.
Running Probe allows you to hit with your Therapies, that an the ability to play Therapy from your graveyard to strip their hand while you are comboing off is very, very relevant.
I agree. I am just saying that there will be a lot of times where you will be sitting there without a Probe in hand and having a Therapy without a dude on the board and wishing it was a Thought Seize. I am just saying from my testing experience i have found that the fourth Seize is more relevant most of the time. But feel free to test the other way. Let me know your results. Sometimes my decks just hate me and don't want to give me the cards I need lol. Also sorry about the typing errors and grammar, I have been typing my post recently very quickly due to time restrictions. I'll clean them up in the future.
While Therapy can miss sometimes, I feel like the guesses you make will be fairly intuitive. Against blue you shoot for Force. If they don't have it, you're still in a good spot.
Thoughtseize is better at taking more specific hate though. If you are doing the transformational sideboarding, you might want Therapy over TS. Otherwise, Thoughtseize might be more flexible for your needs. I guess I will mess around with only 3 Cabal Therapy for now and see how it goes.
You aren't considering the fact that a bunch of spells that cost one mana of each color can easily be cast off of basics instead of duals, and that instead of starting from "I have all these duals and may as well add a couple of basics to maybe dodge Wasteland because I wanted fetches for Brainstorm anyways", the base should be "I have all these basics and fetch lands so I never get Wastelanded, and from there I add a couple of duals to fetch only when I need them to make things work out due to not being able to run 10 Polluted Delta".
I can assure you, in a deck aiming to get to 3 mana via lands with a reasonably early kill, getting Stone Rained because the land you drew and need to play is a Underground Sea is much worse and more likely than needing the one life.
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