You basically need Jace to beat miracles(postboard) as you don't have as many tools as RUG thresh to fight miracles on the stack to protect your much more vulnerable creatures
@LewisCBR I don't really consider sneak and show a top deck, and I think I would rather keep natural order in over JTMS against that deck because HYDRA > DEMON. Most decks nowadays have no problem 2-0ing sneak and show. It's fairly linear, and thus easier to disrupt (and with DnT as popular as it is you'll be hard pressed to see anyone do well with it)
Last edited by monovfox; 06-22-2016 at 08:19 PM.
Emptying the Warrens: So YOU don't have to!
This graph is taken from the following article: http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/ban-miracles/
The article's premise (in support of banning a card from UWr Miracles) is irrelevant for this topic; the important part I am discussing here is the graph above, which shows how many players of each archetype made it to the top 32 of the most recent Grand Prixs.
To be honest, I think it would've been useful to extend the information down to Top 64 to give a wider scope of what's going on, but honestly the top 32 from two GPs should give a fairly accurate portrayal of 1) what is being played commonly, and 2) what is successful/most competitive.
Looking at the format in this way eliminates a lot of "noise", e.g. fringe strategies like Enchantress or The Gate, which while arguably legitimate decks, should not really be considered for your deck building process unless you happen to *know* that you will face such a deck in your local metagame. Hate cards for decks like this should probably overlap with hate for Tier 1 strategies instead of being too specific, e.g. Krosan Grip geared towards fighting Miracles that functions as splash hate for Enchantress, instead of Back to Nature to fight Enchantress specifically. (note: I'm only picking on Enchantress specifically because it used to be a pet deck of mine many years ago. I actually have a fondness for the deck and always root for those piloting it in a tournament (unless I am playing against them)).
Based on this graph, we can make the following conclusions about the state of Legacy's Top Tier Decks in Summer 2016:
1. Miracles takes up a whopping 28.1% of the top 32 slots, and should be considered Enemy Number 1 in terms of gearing a deck towards tournament competition. Unless a card actually *does* get banned from this archetype, RUG Order needs to be capable of consistently defeating this deck to regain its position as an acknowledged competitive strategy and not just an outdated, semi-competitive fringe deck.
2. If we consolidate all of the Delver decks and consider it a singular archetype (even though there are admittedly a few notable differences in how each variant plays out), they collectively account for 25% of the metagame. Their popularity in general and also the fact that fighting them with the tools available to RUG Order are mostly the same (regardless of variant) means this is Enemy Number 2. This percentage is also calculated without considering UGx Infect as a Delver deck, although in all actuality it is fought on a very similar axis and has a similar game plan (in terms of playing a small number of threats and disrupting our efforts in killing said threats with cards like FoW, Daze, etc.) If we include Infect to our calculations, then collectively we are talking about 32.8% of the Top Tier metagame. We simply can't ignore this strategy if we want to do well in a tournament.
3. If we consolidate all of the combo decks into one calculation (based off of whether the ideal first Natural Order target is Ruric Thar or not), my calculation yields 12.5% of the metagame. So perhaps Ruric doesn't quite justify himself as main-deck material for a major tournament. That said, *my* local metagame has a high enough combo presence that I would say it's probably closer to 20% or more (collectively speaking), hence the justification for me running him in the main 60. However, it is perhaps worth considering the fact that this list is *only* looking at the top 32 decks. If you combine the percentage of Miracles and Delver decks, they account for over 50% of the Top Tier metagame (and even more if you include UG Infect). The reason I am pointing this out is because both archetypes *crush* combo as they have the tools necessary to beat them -- Counterbalance, Force of Will, Spell Pierce, Delver of Secrets, etc. It is possible that had the chart extended down to include the top 64, we would be seeing a lot more combo decks that were kicked out of the top 32 contention by Miracles and/or Delver decks. I certainly saw a fair amount of it when I was playing in Day 2 of GP Columbus, and faced a few combo decks myself (easy matchups for RUG Delver). In any case, I think that Combo.dec is not a matchup we want to throw away, especially when we are already running Force of Will, Daze, and Vendilion Clique. Spending a slot in the main 60 for a Natural Order target that can ensure Game 1 victory makes it that much more likely we can win either game 2 or 3 and thus the match.
4. If we consolidate all of the decks that have a significant graveyard-centric component to their strategy that could be disrupted with either Scavenging Ooze and/or Deathrite Shaman, I collectively get a mere 11% of the Top Tier metagame (this is counting ANT for cabal ritual/Past in Flames; Reanimator; RG Lands and Dredge). However, the percentage becomes much higher if you include decks that use their graveyard to some incidental extent (Miracles via Snapcaster Mage, Shardless Sultai via Deathrite Shaman, Grixis Delver via DRS, Cabal Therapy flashback + casting Gurmag Angler, Jund for Punishing Fire, RUG Delver with Nimble Mongoose, *any* deck running Tarmogoyf including those previously mentioned, etc.). So I think it *is* worth running at least 1 maindeck GSZ target to attack our opponent's use of the graveyard in Game 1 instead relying entirely on our sideboard slots. A lot of these decks are banking on the fact that most decks don't have hate available in the maindeck, so once again being able to steal a Game 1 makes it easier to win the match. Additionally, Scavenging Ooze and Deathrite Shaman are both good cards on their own and function quite well in a variety of circumstances, regardless of how graveyard-centric the opponent's deck really is, so either (or both) of them would be fine considerations for the main 60. Once again, we also have to consider how many graveyard-centric decks were suppressed from top 32 slots by the overwhelming presence of UWr Miracles, which gains access to both Rest in Peace and Surgical Extraction + Snapcaster Mage -- perhaps the most powerful forms of grave hate in the format.
5. I'm not even going to bother calculating a percentage here, but collectively speaking, there are plenty of decks that run some form of non-basic hate, whether it be Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Wasteland, Price of Progress, etc. While Painter (a deck centered on resolving an early Blood Moon) only accounts for 1 top 32 slot, non-basic hate in general is a common method of winning in Legacy. Seeing as RUG Order has a higher curve than Delver decks and can arguably justify running a few Basic lands, I think a basic Forest is absolutely justified at minimum, and an Island is another worthwhile consideration. A basic Mountain probably isn't essential *unless* you are running Grim Lavamancer, in which case you might appreciate a reliable source of Red mana for repeat activations and/or casting your Red removal against aggressive Wasteland decks. As for us, I think Winter Orb might be the most effective form of mana-denial available to us, seeing as we can sidestep its symmetrical effect with Noble Hierarchs *and* we can also temporarily 'turn it off' at the end of our opponent's turn with Fire // Ice. I make this suggestion particularly because it is a savage card against UWr Miracles, the format's biggest bully.
6. I could continue on, but I won't. I think it's up to you (the reader, a person playing RUG Order these days and configuring the deck towards modern optimization) to decide how much value should be placed in these results and/or what sort of conclusions can be drawn and how they should be applied towards configuring the deck. If you think top 32 results aren't useful, fine, ignore this entire post. But I think 15 rounds of Legacy tend to let the cream rise to the top, and even if the results are partially a result of how many players chose to register a particular archetype, I think it still provides a rough guide to what decks are the biggest threats and in what sort of numbers. I am certainly going to make some adjustments to my list with this all in mind, and will make further tweaks based on testing results from online play.
We're both. Against some matchups we're a slow combo deck with a valid backup plan, and against some others we're a midrange Goyf deck with the potential of a combo finish. I think wcm8 and I mostly disagree about when we should be the combo deck and how important the combo really is. I am a big advocate for going full combo in many matchups, which is why I am strongly against running less than four Natural Order. I am also a big advocate of siding out the combo entirely when it's not as effective.Originally Posted by monovfox
But my advocating full combo mode doesn't mean I feel we should put less emphasis on plan B. Against Miracles, for instance, I feel plan A and plan B should both be optimized. We are the aggressive player here, and I feel we need all the threats we can cough up. We should make space by cutting cards that would stop their threats. Our deck should be mana, threats, cards that protect our threats and cards that find us what we need.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I feel the combo is too important to not run the full set of, and when it's bad I'll have to try and shuffle pieces away with Brainstorm and fetches in game one, siding it all out in game two.
My remark about tempo threshold was indeed mostly about numbers. Right now Grixis and to lesser extent Sultai Delver make up the tempo portion of the meta, but together they hardly make up 20% of the meta I usually encounter. Back when Misstep was there, Canadian Threshold and Dark Tempo Thresh (with Confidants and Ghastly Demise) were the most played decks here in the Netherlands. Maybe it was a Dutch thing, but in every top-8 we had 3/8 tempo threshold variants somehow. Team Nijmegen even temporarily dropped their beloved Storm decks in favour of tempo decks in order to win their byes for the then upcoming GP.
Tempo isn't nearly as effective right now, being weak against the hate pieces of Eldrazi Stompy and having difficulties beating Miracles. Besides, against Grixis it might actually be optimal to keep the combo, since Young Pyromancer going nuts can make our plan B a lot worse. They also don't attack our mana base as much, so casting a CMC4 card shouldn't be as hard against grixis as it would be against for instance RUG.
I disagree about the idea that Miracles makes Natural Order so bad. Terminus always costs us multiple threats if we consider playing two "plan B threats" a valid strategy. Secondly, I don't consider a mana dude a threat. It's one damage per turn, which is way too slow. A mana dude plus a sorcery spell netting me a 10/10 that really only dies to Terminus seems a very good deal to me. If they manage to counter it, I will also have lost two cards, so this is a bit of a high risk high reward thing, but their main control tool Counterbalance has serious issues hitting a CMC4 spell, and apart from those they have 4x Force of Will, 2-3x Pierce/Counterspell. That's pretty limited, so we should have good chances to protect Natural Order from that.
(More about the meta numbers in a minute.)
I would like to have Ruric Thar against Storm, Delver and maybe Miracles. I feel that's hardly enough for a sideboard slot, and definitely not enough to warrant a main deck slot.
My experience is this: you encounter random chunks of the meta at random intervals. My local game store Legacy scene has every possible deck in multiple numbers. One day everybody is on Eldrazi, the other day I play against Elves two times in a row. Miracles and Shardless are constant factors, but their numbers are not as extreme as you projected. If your meta is 25% Miracles and 25% Delver strategies, this means there's only 50% left for Shardless, D&T, Elves, Eldrazi, Storm, S&T, Dredge, Burn, StoneBlade, Infect and so on. That doesn't happen here. Last tourney, for instance, I played against Shardless, Elves, Merfolk, OmniTell and Storm. There are so many decks you can play competitively it's very dangerous to tune a deck with only a few matchups in mind.
My latest meta analysis looked like this:
META BREAKDOWN 01-05-2016
Tier 1: Miracles
Tier 1: Eldrazi Stompy
Tier 1: Shardless BUG
Tier 1: Grixis Tempo
Tier 1: BUG Delver
Tier 1: Storm
Tier 1: Death&Taxes
Tier 1: Infect
Tier 1.5: Elves
Tier 1.5: Blade Control
Tier 1.5: RUG Delver
Tier 1.5: Omnitell
Tier 1.5: Burn
Tier 1.5: Reanimator
Tier 1.5: Sneak&Show
Tier 1.5: Jund
Tier 1.5: Dredge
Tier 2: Tezz.dec
Tier 2: Maverick
Tier 2: Painter
Tier 2: MUD
Tier 2: WUR Delver
Tier 2: RG Lands
Tier 2: Merfolk
Tier 2: Goblin Stompy
Tier 2: Affinity
Tier 2: Bant
Tier 2: Junk
Tier 2: 12Post
Tier 2: Pox
Cases could be made for promotion or relegation of certain decks, but this should show the diversity of the meta. All decks in Tier 1 and Tier 1.5 are capable of winning a tournament here, and should be taken into account when tuning a deck and sideboard. I tend to ignore Tier 2, but I still encounter them every now and then.
Right now I am testing 3 Deathrite Shaman in place of Noble Hierarch (so a 3/1 split, just the other way around). To fully take advantage of this beyond just the creature/land modes, I cut one of the fetch-lands to add a Bayou for access to Black mana.
I found this helpful in the following ways:
1. DRS provides main-deck disruption for opposing graveyard strategies, whether it be their lands, creatures or spells. I previously pointed out how important this can be in the current Legacy format. Cards like Punishing Fire become more easily dealt-with if you have an early DRS and can counter the first casting, similarly Life from the Loam itself can be removed and/or its targets can be exiled in exchange for mana. Snapcaster Mage becomes less useful if you're able to exile its targets. Dredge can sometimes be slowed down enough for us to cast a Natural Order and race them. There are plenty of other scenarios I'm sure you can imagine where DRS saves the day where Hierarch wouldn't.
2. Exalted, while useful, is made up for by the fact that DRS can tack on 2 damage of its own in most situations. Frequently this ability adds up damage faster than exalted triggers would. It's also helpful in that cards like Ensnaring Bridge, Maze of Ith or Moat (or really them just having a bigger threat or [whatever] that otherwise prevents us from attacking) can be ignored. In combination with our Burn, it's an easy way to land the last few points of damage. DRS is also a relevant singular threat against Miracles, whereas Hierarch by her lonesome is underwhelming -- this helps us to avoid over-extending into a Terminus and yet still put them on a clock.
3. The extra toughness is surprisingly relevant. Cards like Forked Bolt and Golgari Charm won't 2-for-1 us, and Darkblast is no longer quite as awful.
4. DRS is actually a great answer to opposing DRS. And we have 'more' copies of them than our opponents (Elves aside) thanks to GSZ.
5. DRS sacrifices itself just as well as Hierarch to Natural Order if necessary. I've also rarely had issues having a Land in the graveyard to get mana as needed. So in the majority of situations, it is functionally the same as Hierarch in terms of providing mana and sac'ing to NO.
6. Life-gain is surprisingly relevant too. Some games against aggressive decks were won because Shaman gave me some buffer room. Even if we don't 'need' the extra life, it it also makes it a lot safer to utilize Sylvan Library.
7. I haven't splashed for any Black (or White) cards yet, but DRS does open us up to the possibility of running some cards outside of RUG's selection.
8. This isn't typically an issue, but DRS can provide Red mana where Hierarch can't.
The downside of course is that we lose consistent Exalted triggers which is helpful in Goyf stalls, and it also makes stuff like Rest in Peace more effective overall as our Goyfs *and* mana dorks are affected. To offset this somewhat, I am not running the full playset of DRS and still have a singleton Hierarch, but I am actually thinking that just dropping Hierearch entirely for the full 4 copies of DRS might just be better. Alternatively, Birds of Paradise instead of Hierarch as an additional source of Black mana (and also to chump block a flying threat) might be even better.
Birds of paradise might better against DnT due to the presence of RIP postboard. The matchup is rough if you don't have a dork online/keep a landlight hand
Emptying the Warrens: So YOU don't have to!
Agreed.
I have been arguing in the RUG Delver thread that D&T needs to be addressed specifically and taken seriously as it is one of Temur's most difficult matchups. I would say it's probably a lot worse for our Delver cousin than it is for Order, because Delver doesn't have the benefit of Mana dorks nor the possibility of casting a 4-mana Sorcery that essentially wins the game. I realize 4 mana is difficult to achieve with all of their taxing and mana disruption, but at least it's *doable*. Here, Progenitus really helps out a lot assuming you're able to get him onboard quickly and race them (and also hope that they haven't drawn one of their Council's Judgment).
My point in the other Temur thread is that based upon both local tournaments and my perception at the last Grand Prix, D&T continues to be one of the most popular creature-centric decks in Legacy. This is true for both experienced and entry-level players. There are multiple factors playing into this:
1. Compared to your typical UXx deck that plays Brainstorm, Force of Will and a Fetch/Dual mana base, D&T is comparatively more affordable. This makes it a more attractive option for a player new to Legacy who wants to be competitive, but not necessarily spend several grand buying into the format.
2. With recent sets *and* reprints, the cost of many of the archetype's expensive cards has come down or at least stabilized. Had Karakas not been reprinted, it's entirely possible that it'd be seeing a similarly astronomic jump in price as some of the other powerful rare cards from Legends. I'm sure that Rishadan Port will see a paper reprinting before too long, but a fairly competitive version of the deck (though perhaps not optimal) can still be played even without Port.
3. The deck continues to have new competitive Legacy-level cards printed for it from almost every block, and this trend will likely continue (whereas Blue tends to less-frequently get new cards from an Eternal-playable standpoint). The most recent spoiler from the newest set brings a new version of Thalia into the fold, which is a card that seems like a nightmare for Blue decks to deal with if they don't have an immediate answer in-hand.
4. There are multiple variations of the deck that makes it difficult to perfectly metagame against. Sure, there are common trends such as Aether Vial, SFM, Thalia... but there are multiple Color splashes that see play, multiple options for the 2 and 3cmc slots, and a varierty of Sideboard cards that can greatly impact how much harder the matchup ends up being. The matchup is difficult to begin with, but it can be made even worse depending on which configuration you end up facing.
There are other factors of course, but my point is simply that this deck is definitely Tier 1-1.5, and RUG Order should have some sideboard cards to address it. Right now I am playing Granger Guildmage and Sudden Demise -- and there are plenty of other options to consider. Sulfur Elemental is admittedly quite narrow, but it does a great job of clearing the field of their X/1 creatures and making the survivors easier to Bolt without Mom around to protect them. Depending on how popular this deck is around your area, I would suggest playing more slots than typical to deal with it.
Went 1-2 today.
Went 1-2 in both the matches I lost. (losses vs infect and to find)
Against tinfins I played poorly and was punished. I went for q greedy turn 3 ruric thar rather than a scavenging ooze, losing me the game to chain of vapor into grislebrand >.>
Lost game one to infect. Game two I won at 1 life and 9 poison, and game 3 I lost to turn three 3x invigorate + berserk into my hand of double bolt and force because invigorate is really good against us >.>
Emptying the Warrens: So YOU don't have to!
I made it to top 4 of a 66-person Win a Mox event yesterday.
Still unsure of the deck, I had a buddy play it on a different Saturday event, and he made it to the finals out of nowhere. So that convinced me to give it a go. We tweaked a few cards and this is what I ran on Sunday:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fire//Ice
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
1 Elderscale Wurm
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Forest
1 Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Scalding Tarn
side:
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Electrikery
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Krosan Grip
1 Granger Guildmage
The Rec Sage main was because we noticed a ton of D&T when we arrived, so it felt like a good call for the event. Probably will switch to 2nd JTMS in main for normal play. The Elderscale Wurm was pretty amazing in the main, allowing me to win game 1's where otherwise I would not have been able to.
M1: Grixis Delver 2-0
Goyfs and board control game 1 - even managed to Fire and take out Delver + Pyromancer. Game 2 got Proggy out after some back and forth, and his DRS's couldn't save him.
M2: Grixis Delver 1-2
Can't remember too many details but this was a very friendly guy who had older legacy experience and was able to put me on NO Rug. Gurmag was hard to beat, pretty sure I sided incorrectly, should have had both Jace's in.
M3: Death/Taxes 2-0
Early Progenitus makes him regret not killing my sacc'd Goyf earlier. Game 2 was longer but he did not have much action - I Clique'd in response to his SFM activation and saw Council's Judgment. He eventually had to use it against a large goyf, but I had NO and Bonfire in hand if the game went much longer.
M4: Burn 2-0
T3 Elderscale wins - although Progenitus -might- have won, he was at 10 life and I think I would survive another turn. Second game, another Elderscale absorbs 7 damage and allows me to get damage in...I'll note that I drew 4 or 5 lands from Goblin Guides here :)
M5: Maverick 2-1
Game 1 I got early Prog into play, he scoops. Game 2 I'm able to trick him into blocking my goyf with his Thalia, then I bolted his DRS for a nice 2-for-1...but his Choke caught me and I wouldn't pull out of it. Game 3 is slow going, he eventually is at 3 life with a Sigarda and full crew, including Mom, while I have 3 Hierarchs, Clique, Arbor. We go to turns and I topdeck a Bolt after fetching out some lands.
M6: Burn 2-0
Elderscale again for the win, even on a mull to 6 and drawing against Burn. Second game I was able to Force an Eidolon which made my next two Goyfs into big boys and he had to use double removal on both, which let me live easily to get another Wurm out.
M7: ID into top 8
Quarters: Moggcatcher Stompy 2-1
Game 1 I force his T1 Moggcatcher, then Bolt Rabblemaster, then play goyf and block/kill a second Rabblemaster. 2nd Goyf gets damage in and kills creatures he deploys until I topdeck a Fire to finish him off. Game 2 goes long but he eventually gets Bridge/Blood Moon out and I can't NO...he eventually gets Moggcatcher and goes to town, and I can't topdeck a Fire or Bonfire to get out. I -could- have GSZ into Hierarch which might have gotten me there in time. Game 3 I got Goyfs and a Proggy out, but then he laid down a Bridge. Finally found a Krosan Grip to allow the team to swing.
Semis: Slivers 0-2
Had my worst misplay of the tournament here. I mull to 5 and play out lands and Hierarch...used a Fire against his Sinew guy which I figured was correct. Then I decided for some reason to force the Hibernation Sliver which I just should have ignored. I try to NO next turn but then don't have the force backup to protect from Daze. If I'd just sat back with Force backup, I could have gotten Elderscale out and then probably lived quite easily until another NO into Progenitus or just slowly burn him out. Game 2 he quickly overwhelmed me.
Definitely a wierd top 8 - Moggcatcher, Slivers, Reanimator, Elves, Grixis, me on NO Rug...can't remember the others. Lots of D&T and Elves made up the 66 at the tournament.
Was a great time, I'm in love. Going forward will probably have 2 JTMS in the main, move Rec Sage to board. Change Elecktrickery to something else. So many times I just wanted to find a Bonfire, so I'm considering going to a 2nd, although having a Needle is probably better. Didn't have any mana issues and the one Arbor felt ok. Fire//Ice was great, I really liked it. Not sure if I want to replace the Tormod's Crypts for anything.
People were visibly frustrated at how easily I could get Goyfs onto the board thanks to GSZ
I'll be doing more of this online, I need to shore up my combo and Miracles matches since I have little experience with those.
Miracles is difficult as hell
Emptying the Warrens: So YOU don't have to!
So uh...is it just me or does Progenitus seem really nice right now? The downside is that Fatal Push has made 'goyfs quite a bit worse, which was often the regular beatdown plan here.
BUG NO gets Leovold and can DRS-battle it out with all the other BUG lists, I suppose.
You are right. Seems sweet. I could see RUG or maybe a BUG variant coming up here. Is the advantage of red for blasts better?
Looking at prior BUG NO lists on this thread (and the old linked NO BUG thread) seem to be a simple switch of Deathrites over Hierarchs, and Decay over Bolts.
Red gives you a lot of burn reach along with handy Fire//Ice. Hierarchs were meant to pump goyfs and Cliques for solid beatdown plan. It is much easier to win when you only have to swing once with Progenitus.
I think NO RUG became worse not because of miracle; I would think it's Sneak and Show: our Progenitus is just not as good as their Griselbrand/Emrakul. After top was banned, i would expect different combo decks including Sneak&Show showing up, so I am not sure if it's still time for NO RUG, but don't get me wrong, this is my all time fav deck and i always want to play it again.
edited: oh and this deck fell off the top table after mental misstep was banned; this card is pretty critical in our aggro plan.
What about Worldspine Wurm? It gains a lot from no terminus and is even fine to drop in off Show and Tell because it beats either of the creatures they drop.
The banning of Misstep wasn't the problem, the deck was at least decent before Misstep. The real problem was the printing of Delver, which reintroduced Canadian Threshold into the format, and Wsteland + Stifle + Daze alongside it. Beating Delver is the real challenge for this deck and I'm not sure you can if they even remotely try to manadenial people.
Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com
deckstats.net archive
I'm trying out a BUG list over RUG. I feel like it's a bit less streamlined, but I believe that the plan in games where Natural Order isn't drawn are maybe better. I could be wrong about that though. Also Deathrite is (obviously) a pretty ridiculous card. I could see running into issues however with him not creating mana consistently unlike hierarch. Being in a Deathrite mirror where you're trying to resolve a sorcery speed 4 mana spell is probably not the place you want to be
Went 3-1 tonight with BUG on a less than ideal list because I'm still acquiring the stuff. Lost to Cheerios, beat Reanimator, Grixis Vial Smasher, and URW True Blade. In the last match against true blade I really ravaged him with Llawan. Man I love that card
Can you share your list (or would be list) with us Megadeus?
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Vendillion Clique
1 Progenitus
3 Fatal Push
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
1 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Ponder
3 Natural Order
2 Jace, The Mindsculptor
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Thoughtseize
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
SB:
2 Krosan Grip
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
2 Diabolic Edict
1 Dread of Night
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Thoughtseize
2 Lost Legacy
1 Divert
1 Ruric Thar
2 Submerge
I think that's it. I thought I had a second Thoughtseize in there somewhere. Maybe I'm playing 61. I think Swamp should just be a second USea. And I only have 1 force at the moment, so take from that what you will. I'm sure second and third force are warranted, but the blue Count is kind of low. Also unsure of what's better between Reclamation Sage and Trygon Predator. Noble Hierarch also over Bird most likely
Another 3-1. Beat UWR Stoneblade with Moat, Jace, Nahiri and stuff. Lost to Dragon Stompy, games 1 and 2 were great back and forths and I think I was slightly unlucky game 1, but game 3 he had a turn 1 moon on the play and I immediately lost. Beat Jund in a weird game where he had active library for a long time, but I kept him off of mana and got there eventually. Beat Esper Standstill. He mulled to 5 game 2 and it was fairly uneventful
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