Yeah, looking at it, I agree with keeping the Jaces in. I forgot about my outs to Iona. It's tough to board out against Reanimator. I dislike boarding out SoFI because it lets me race past a Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur, who is their number one go-to nowadays. I can definitely lose the SoFF, maybe a Mystic, and maybe a land since I don't have to worry about Wasteland.
Against BUG, Paths are better since they generally run no basics. I'm not really worried about them aggroing me out, so another answer to Jace (as well as creatures) in the form of Oblivion Ring seems right. A resolved Elspeth is pretty bad for them, but I could see not boarding it in depending on their creature suite.
Counterbalance is bad for the same reason it was bad before Mental Misstep. There are too many things for it to deal with and it just can't deal with them all. Green Sun's Zenith, Knight of the Reliquary, Vindicate, Tombstalker, Vendilion Clique... etc... etc... Snapcaster Mage outclasses Counterbalance all over the place.
I've considered trying to fit the package in (if for no other reason than because I wasn't a Legacy player at the time it was originally released, and have always really wanted to play it), and it seems like you end up trying to put too many packages in the deck, I can never find a list that runs it that I'm satisfied with. The list I played against last Sunday used Stoneforge, CB/Top, and Snapcaster, and he didn't seem too impressed with it. There's only so much space in the deck, and even without the CB package I always find myself struggling to get everything I want into the list. In addition, the format's spread out a bit more, as Dzra said: the threats you need to deal with are spread all over the CB curve, and it's tough to really get much out of the package. I'd much rather just use the versatile counters and removal available to us to deal with threats, and back it up with Snapcasters.Originally Posted by Syaoran
In other news, I played a quick match against Team Italia and Painter recently. TI seemed pretty good, although I dropped a postboard game when he got SFM into Batterskull, backed up with Mother of Runes. Hopefully Wraths out of the board will come in handy here, since their deck takes a while to start hitting hard.
Painter seemed pretty easy, dropped G2 when I kept a hand a bit overloaded with threats and light on answers, but Surgical targeting Painter usually just earns a concession, and between REB, Snare, Counterspell, Swords, and Snapcaster to get 'em all back, it's pretty easy to fight over their combo pieces, and take g1. I'm not sure these are matchups we're particularly worried about, but *shrug* some data's better than none.
So I see a lot of people are dropping Daze entirely.
I can see the point that this decks wants his landdrops, but is it really safe to drop a "free" counter against all the BUG and Reanimator?
For reference (I'm pretty happy with it):
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [B] Tundra
2 [R] Underground Sea
2 [R] Island (2)
1 [IN] Plains (2)
1 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
4 [TE] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [INN] Snapcaster Mage
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
// Spells
1 [NPH] Batterskull
1 [SOM] Sword of Body and Mind
4 [5E] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
3 [DD2] Daze
4 [U] Swords to Plowshares
2 [NPH] Dismember
2 [GP] Repeal
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [NPH] Batterskull
SB: 1 [SOK] Manriki-Gusari
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 [M10] Duress
SB: 2 [MBS] Go for the Throat
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 1 [RAV] Swamp (2)
I saw one list try Delver of Secrets:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=50179
Thoughts on using him in the deck? He's a clock and when he changes he flies.
Oh man, I really want this to work, for no other reason than I love Snapcaster and Delver and I really want them in the same deck.
I had been brainstorming something like this initially after we got the full Innistrad spoiler, but my major concern was that playing the tempo role isn't going to have enough impact on a lot of decks, and that applying pressure is going to be difficult. It has 13 creatures, and Stoneforge and Snapcaster can't really do much on their own against anything else on the board without equipment. In addition, Stoneforge and Snapcaster are both rather mana-intensive, so for a deck with a relatively light mana base, it might be tricky to conssitently get them going.
The question is really whether attacking the mana base with Stifles and Wastelands can disrupt other decks enough that you can safely drop SFM-Batterskull or go to lethal with a Clique, Delver, etc. It worked decently for Team America, but that deck also has a pretty bad Merfolk matchup in general, which might be something to avoid. Stoneforge into Batterskull is pretty solid against Merfolk, but I'm not sure it's necessarily enough. Team America also has more significant disruption in the form of Hymn, and much larger threats like Goyfs and Tombstalkers, which allow them to easily ride one card to victory.
I think Daze has been abandoned primarily because the deck can't necessarily drop a fast Stoneforge into Batterskull and end the game quickly anymore, with Misstep gone. Sometimes that's a viable strategy, but generally we've had to slow down a bit and start using him as a classic control finisher. When we're no longer applying fast pressure, it starts becoming very easy for other decks, even combo, to play around Daze, since the one turn they give us isn't actually costing them much: we draw one extra card, and in exchange they invalidate a counter in our hand. In a tempo list like the one Drago posted, it's obviously quite nice, but Snapcaster seems to be leading us more towards a classic control role now (one that's been working pretty well for me).
Also remember Daze is a dead card in Snapcaster's eyes 99% of the time, so if you're running it over something like Counterspell, you'll be making your Snapcasters less efficient.
I've been having a lot of success with the list in my sig. I like Delver a lot, don't get me wrong, but I think his place is in a Thresh type deck. I also agree that Daze just isn't what we're trying to do. If you're worried about BUG, run some Spell Pierce.
I think jace is essential to this deck's success. We can't ride a quick batterskull up victory that easily anymore so the deck has to slow down and ride jace's power. 4 spell snare is also a must to replace misstep. The card is ridiculously useful in this format. With snaps, jace and clique being 3/4 drops, daze is pretty suboptimal. Delver doesn't really fit in this deck as mentioned above. For those cutting jace, don't because he is still as amazing as ever. I'm playing 4 copies, and will never drop him unless something equally broken is printed in the future. Also I'm playing a full set of snaps. The card is so gassy. I built me deck around Snaps and I haven't looked back. Here's my list:
4 Sfm
4 Snapcaster
2 Clique
1 Batterskull
1 Soff
4 JTMS
4 Fow
4 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Stp
2 Path
4 Factory
4 Tundra
8 Fetch
1 Plains
5 Island
IMO all these fancy lands like riptide/moorland haunt are too slow. Factory is simple, fat and effective. In multiples, it gets even better. I like how my 1 factory can stop a snapcaster from poking me to death or how it trades with a kitty.
Has anyone had any trouble against decks with enchantments/artifacts? im thinking of adding disenchants to the board, possibly removing a SOFI and an elspeth.
I use Oblivion Ring; although it's slower, it can also hit planeswalkers and creatures.
Is anyone still running Vedalken Shackles in their list? I really like the idea of having it in an agro heavy environment. It is definitely better then running a 4th JtMS if you're expecting a lot of Merfolk/Zoo/TA.
I am, as I've been used to. Shackles steals loads of first games. But I do run 4 jaces as well.
I'm not a fan of Shackles for two reasons.
1. Because we are a Stoneforge deck, they will board in Artifact hate if they can. Giving them better value for their already good SB cards seems bad.
2. It doesn't play with Taigo.
1. And? Do you sb out the stoneforge package just because they may bring in some grips/grudges?
2. And? Do you stop playing jace or clique just because they don't interact with the mage?
Reasonable arguments would be for example that it's a slow card sometimes even against creature decks, that it's simply bad against some tiers (RUG order, the new canadian ********, landstill style decks...) and even dead against others (all kinds of combo decks). But those two arguments that you give don't seem very solid.
I like shackles because they're an autowin against many decks in the first game, and even post board in some cases (the mirror match for example). I'm playing one lonely copy yet though.
Sounds like you switched your list up a little. Care you share your changes and reasons? I'm definitely interested in hearing what you switched the 2nd shackles out for.
This was my decklist:
2 Spellstutter Sprite
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Repeal
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Karakas
1 Plains
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Riptide Laboratory
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Mutavault
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
4 Island
2 Spell Pierce
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB: 4 Path to Exile
SB: 3 Purify the Grave
SB: 1 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 1 Wrath of God
SB: 1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 2 Spell Pierce
SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
I was so happy with it, but now at the last moment, I don't have a Jace and 2 riptide laboratory.
What should I do now? Go and play Delvers for more threat or not? Or some more removal :O?
Or maybe an equipment more mainboard like sofi for playing against aggro?
This is what I want:
- wog
- sofi
- delver
- spell pierce
So waht do you guys think to do because tomorrow is the Grand Prix so...
what do you guys think of riptide lab? I was running 2 but had color mana issues so I dropped to one. It just seems too slow to actually be that great. I also dont think you should run less than 4 jace in the main. that card is way too good.
Yes, I think this is a great strategy for game two against Green decks that seem likely to bring in between 3-5 anti-artifact cards. Luckily, against most Green decks, you want more room to bring in removal. There's your room.
What I mean is that since Shackles is more or less a "removal" spell in the sense that it's trying to slow down the onslaught of creatures, I'd rather be playing a removal spell that can interact with Snapcaster. It is much harder for them to anticipate Snapcaster's combat tricks whereas if they walked into a trap with Shackles it could only be because they misplayed.
Of course, the speed is an issue as well. I'd rather turn 1 Swords, Path, Spell Snare/Pierce, etc and turn 3 flash it back than play turn 3 Shackles (which most likely won't be able to steal a Goyf and might never take a Tombstalker).
I've run one in my UWr list and in testing it has been activated 0 times, however, it's been wasted to hell and back pretty much every game I've played it, so I've saved coloured mana instead :). I know it's a bad reason to run it (obv), but I can only imagine using it in control matches where the games go on long, whereas most of my testing has been against aggro, combo and aggro-control.
Hi everyone,
I just finished playing at GP Amsterdam with WUr Stoneblade, day 1 record was 7-2, day 2 was 3-2-2.
The biggest mistake was to play 2 WoG maindeck, I saw 0 Mavericks 0 Zoo. The best card was Elspeth(should be 1 maindeck). Also 0 Reptide Laboratory - my tests showed it is bad in UWr, and a sideboard Red elemental blasts are SO good, you know.
List:
2 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Karakas
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Wasteland
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vendillion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Wrath of God
4 Force of Will
4 Spell Snare
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Ponder
SB
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Path to Exile
1 Wrath of God
2 Disenchant
Two of the top performing (Top 32) lists at GP Amsterdam for UW Stoneforge had MD Cunning Wishes with a Wishboard. What are your thoughts on this? Should this be the new direction which this deck should go?
Or should it go for a red splash for REB (which is quite good) but was not represented in the GP Top 32?
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