I think Wasteland is only good in slow control decks because it kills Mutavault.
Look at the SCG Articles below, most recent is at the top:
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...gacy_Open.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...itational.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/l...rovidence.html
If the Hatfield(s) analyses are to be believed, as you go through the beginning of when U/W Stoneblade entered the legacy meta to the latest SCG in Baltimore, U/W Stoneblade has shored up its matchup with Zoo, Affinity and other aggro decks close to and past 50% (depending on deck) where in the beginning it had a paltry 30%, especially against Zoo. This may be due of course to suboptimal beginning decklists, and then tuning the deck from there with lessons learned as each tournament came and went. From that same analyses, U/W Stoneblade also has slightly favorable matchups with a lot of the top decks in the current metagame such as Merfolk. This may just be due to Batterskull and not taking into account whether Merfolk has adapted since then with Dismember in the main and/or the board.
U/W Stoneblade biggest weakness thus far has been poor showings against NO RUG but this may also be due to the low number of players actually playing NO RUG and thus the UW Stoneblade pilot not preparing their sideboard for it as a consequence.
All in all, it will be interesting to see what comes out of this weekend's SCG legacy in Cinn. During playtesting U/W Stoneblade, its fairly weak to certain combo matchups like Tide and its ilk so maybe its time for some sort of Solidarity/Spiral Tide etc to come out o the woodwork to prey on the metagame like Aggro Loam did in SCG Baltimore.
I'd really like to see a list that shored up it's Zoo matches. I'm having problems with mine against that deck and I'd like to know what they did. It would save me some brainstorming sessions.
maybe ghostyle prison could be an sideboard option to for gobblins, zoo dredge??
You play white and they can't pay it (I'm a zoo player btw) Maybe if I got 2 creatures I can pay for 2 but not more mostly^^
@ Mishra's Factory and Wasteland
I may have been too aggressive with my post regarding these lands.
In a deck with only single colored cost requirements, these lands work pretty well. They tap for colorless mana, which can be used to cast spells.
However, my point regarding Wasteland is that you should be trying to make consistent land drops; Jace costs 4 mana, and hardcast Batterskull costs 5 mana (which will occur in a control deck with such a light creature base). If you are aggressively attacking the opponents manabase with Wasteland, you are setting yourself back a land drop. This gets even worse for those lists running Wasteland and Daze.
Mishra's Factory on the other hand, not only opens up your manabase to opposing Wasteland's, it also opens it up to opposing removal.
With 1/3 of your lands tapping for colorless mana, it's very possible that you draw a colorless heavy land draw early, and your deck literally screws itself. This has happened to me countless times when I used to play U/W Landstill. The fact is, playing a 3 color manabase without Mishra's Factory or Wasteland has a far more stable manabase than a 2 color manabase with 4/4 Factory/Waste, because it has more colored sources.
In a Blade Control list like Gerry T's, which is alot more tempo-oriented, akin to an aggro/control deck, I can see the justification for Factory/Waste/Daze. In the lists where people are playing more than 2 Jace TMS, Wrath of God, etc... it baffles me to see Factory/Waste being used without question. However, Gerry T does run 4 Jaces... and if he was using using Wasteland and Daze aggressively, I wonder what the average turn his Jace's came into play, even moreso against decks with opposing Wastelands. Turn 8? Meanwhile, with 4 Jace, his hand is clogged with spells begging to be pitched to Force of Will...
..at any rate.
In the decklist I posted, I have significant color demands. Counterspell and Counterbalance want UU as early as turn two. Jace wants UU, Elspeth wants WW, and Shackles wants as many Islands as possible. The deck is built in a true U/W Control shell that wants to make consistent land drops up to and beyond turn 4. Factory/Waste, especially against opposing Wastes, is the absolute worst thing a decklist like the one I posted could do to its own manabase. The stable 7 basic manabase I posted, even with only 21 lands, works absolutely perfect.
I hope that settles some of the confusion about my last post.
The list I posted has a good Zoo matchup, especially postboard. It has enough countermagic and removal to keep Zoo from doing much damage early, and has Countertop, Batterskull, and Shackles to lock the game out. Elspeth is also pretty good in this matchup too.I'd really like to see a list that shored up it's Zoo matches. I'm having problems with mine against that deck and I'd like to know what they did. It would save me some brainstorming sessions.
Last edited by Hanni; 07-15-2011 at 08:29 PM. Reason: Fixed some bad typos
I keep going back to Dust Bowl as a way to deal with problematic lands in the UWR shell. It's more succinct than Wasteland without hogging up 3-4 slots, and repeatable which is the focus. It can turn all the extra fetchlands into more destruction.
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U/W Blade Control
Lands (21)
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
4 Tundra
7 Island
2 Plains
Creatures (4)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells (35)
2 Batterskull
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
3 Mental Misstep
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vedalken Shackles
Sideboard (15)
2 Aura of Silence
2 Moat
4 Peacekeeper
4 Meddling Mage
3 Pithing Needle
This is your list right :)
Isn't the deck to slow, okay, lategame you can go shackles and stuff but you can't hold everything.
I just think this deck is to slow.
Also you only have one creature to play batterskull on, what if it get's killed then you only would have tokens from elspeth, is that enough?
These are just questions, didn't tested it.
Btw, peacekeeper sucks quite hard then would play 2x more moat/ghostly prisons or something...
Yes, the deck is going to be slow, considering it's a control deck. Swords, Mental Misstep, and Force of Will have you covered for turn 1, and this deck holds open UU for turn two for Counterspells without a problem. What does the deck need to be fast against? The deck still has the ability to put Batterskull into play on turn 3, or Countertop lock into play on turn 2, if you really need to race aggro or combo.
I've actually cut the Moat's from the sideboard for 2 Wrath of God, and 1 Pithing Needle for 1 Umezawa's Jitte, but those are small changes.
Why do I need a creature to attach Batterskull to? Batterskull itself is a 0/0 Germ token. If a 4/4 Vigilance Lifelink isn't enough for you, then yes, you can attach it to a 1/1 Elspeth token, a creature that you stole with Shackles, a topdecked SFM, or another Batterskull (w/ Germ token). I don't get what the issue is here.
Also, why does Peacekeeper suck quite hard? Peacekeeper is so insanely good against so many decks. Any deck with very light or no removal has huge issues with Peacekeeper. A resolved Peacekeeper is usually gg against a large chunk of the format.
Maybe some people don't enjoy playing slow control decks, and would prefer to play a faster aggro/control list, and there is nothing wrong with that. However, that doesn't mean that a slower control deck isn't effective.
yeah the batterskull I was wrong lol sorry
But peacekeeper, every deck has enough removal to kill it mostly.
If you play that or moat, I think moat/ghostly is harder to get away from for other decks then a creature :O?
Here's a list of decks to consider:
G/W Maverick
Elves
Affinity
Merfolk
Show and Sneak
Reanimator
Bant Aggro (w/ or w/ out NO/Pro)
There's more, but that's a pretty good list already.
Even if Peacekeeper does end up getting removed, it usually is able to buy you plenty of turns. If this deck is given the time to get SFM/Batterskull out, CounterTop, Planeswalker's, and/or Shackles into play, the opponent is usually done for regardless if they finally find a Swords to Plowshares.
It's also in the sideboard. It's not like your bringing it in against Junk, Zoo, or Goblins.
Yeah oké that's true but just you need some options against the faster decks so that's what I'm thinking off :)
After having the chance to playtest against Goblins recently, I was able to come up with a fairly good sideboarding plan with my decklist.
My sideboard plan vs Goblins:
-4 Counterbalance
-4 Force of Will
-1 Batterskull
+4 Meddling Mage
+2 Wrath of God
+2 Pithing Needle
+1 Umezawa's Jitte
I've been wanting the 3rd Pithing Needle in the board, and I could easily cut a Peacekeeper to fit it, but I'm not sure what I'd want to cut from my maindeck to fit it in postboard (vs Goblins).
Anyway, the plan here is that I really don't want to be 2-for-1'ing myself against Goblins with FoW, and Counterbalance sucks in this matchup. On the draw, I still have 7 answers to turn 1 Lackey, with 9 answers to turn 1 Vial. On the play, I go up to 15 answers to turn 1 Lackey. Without Vial, Meddling Mage can name key Goblins like Warren Weirding, Goblin Matron, and Goblin Ringleader. The extra body is extremely valuable. Between 4/4/2/1 SFM/Mage/Elspeth/Batterskull, I have should have enough bodies to get an active Jitte going. In playtesting, I've won several games against Goblins with an active Jitte.
Needle is huge in this matchup. Shutting down Vial is good, but it can also shut down Gempalm Incinerator, Siege Gang Bang, Goblin Tinkerer, Goblin Sharpshooter, Wasteland, and Rishadan Port. Wrath of God gives me a nice reset button for the midgame, which when combined with either Shackles, Elspeth, Batterskull, or Jitte, usually puts me in a really good spot.
Are you sure you don't want batterskull vs goblins in game 2 ???
I personally wouldn't take it out.
Hello, I'm new with the deck and wanted to know how was the MU against TES and A.N.T.? Do you have some tipps to win against them?
I'm running 2 maindeck Batterskulls. So yes, I think cutting 1 for 1 Jitte is the right call.Are you sure you don't want batterskull vs goblins in game 2 ???
I personally wouldn't take it out.
Depends on your build.Hello, I'm new with the deck and wanted to know how was the MU against TES and A.N.T.? Do you have some tipps to win against them?
In my list, I run Misstep, Counterspell, FoW, and CounterTop. Meddling Mages come in postboard, further improving the matchup. An early Batterskull can help get you out of Tendrils range, as well as stabilize against EtW tokens. WoG and Peacekeeper can also come in postboard to deal with EtW tokens vs TES, if you feel you need them. My combo matchup is really good.
I cannot comment on the other builds, as I have not playtested with them, but the loss of CounterTop hurts the combo matchup considerably.
For those of you running Ancestral Visions or Standstill, against which matchups do you side them out?
Merfolk and Goblins seem like an obvious reason to board out Standstill. Possibly Zoo too.
Ancestral Visions seems less matchup dependent, but seems like an easy "side out" against anything with Stifles or Standstills. Possibly also too slow against faster combo decks?
You're wrong. It is still easy.
I take out Standstills against nongreen aggro decks. Submerge is the nuts against green, and Submerge is the nuts with Standstill, so logic.
I'll finally post my list. I just top 8'd a local tournament with it. It was awesome.
Creatures [7]
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic
Instants [19]
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
Enchantments [4]
4 Standstill
Planeswalkers [4]
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts [3]
2 Batterskull
1 Crucible of Worlds
Sorceries [1]
1 Wrath of God
Lands [23]
2 Plains
3 Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Polluted Delta
1 Windswpet Heath
3 Tundra
4 Wasteland
Sideboard [15]
3 Submerge
2 Wrath of God
2 Spell Pierce
2 Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Manriki
1 Crucible
1 Disenchant
The one thing I would like to improve is the Blue mirror. Any suggestions (also, what do you take out in the mirror match?)
Last edited by lorddotm; 07-18-2011 at 04:15 PM.
I play UW with 1volcanic MD and a mountain side. REB is great for one of ur weakest mu's- Hive Mind and helps alot in the mirror.
Fixed.
The thing about the Sword, is that the issue is my SFM dying, not Batterskull not being good. If SFM dies, I don't have a creature, and that is a problem. I might try Sword of Body and Mind though, and drop a WoG or something in the board for the 2nd Batterskull.
Is the 4th Clique better than the 2nd Crucible?
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