Playing Ancestral visions in main deck rather than Standstill.Originally Posted by lorddotm
Definitely not going to happen. There is combo aplenty in LA, and Standstill can randomly be Timewalk+Recall instead of just Recall.
Needing a creature doesn't hugely bother me against blue decks (I main SoBM). It presents the dilemma of keeping in cards that are bad against you (creature removal) to prevent Sword hits or siding them out and basically guaranteeing taking Sword hits for g2/3. In g1, hitting with SoBM is like a slam dunk, since few/none of the SFM lists I see maindeck sweepers, so the extra body compounds the strain on their spot removal (as does 3 Cliques to their usually 1 or 0). I like pro-blue Swords for this reason, since they remove everything but Germs and StP from the equation.
If it's any indication, I almost always fetch SoBM first and choose not to side the second Batterskull in. It's not a wasted slot, it's just that life isn't a vital resource in blue control mirrors so having extras isn't a thing for me. Stranding Batterskull in my hand until I can hardcast it/ find another SFM is the same to me as stranding a SoBM on the table, except when I hit with SoBM, I'm getting significant value and when I hit with Batterskull, both my opponent and I are like, "meh."
As for Clique #4 or Crucible #2, I don't maindeck Crucible and only run 1 in the board, so for me the answer would be yes. Crucible is fine, but Clique is like Jace in that every time I lose one, I always want another and Crucible was almost always the card I was least happy to see, especially in game 1s. When I read that PV didn't like it either, I felt more vindicated removing it rather than keeping it in "in case I'm wrong."
Great success!
Hey guys I've recently been transfering from landstill to blade control and it's been a blast. I really like the UW builds similar to Lorddotm. Something I've been testing recently that I have LOVED is Elspeth. Jace is of course amazing, but this deck wants bodies to put equipment on. Elspeth provides infinited bodies and can even pump + fly tokens over while holding a sword. Swinging with a 9/9 vig, lifesteal, pro blue/green germ can also be fun to just shut ppl down in the late game.
I have been running a 2/2 split on Jace/Els and don't see myself going back to only Jaces.
I will try it out then.
Can you post your list for reference? The Crucible has been pretty good for me, Wastelocking has won me a fair number of games against BUG and NO RUG and other unstable decks.
For reference, I'm playing
4 SFM, 3 Clique
4 BS, FoW, MM, StP
3 Snare
4 Vision, Jace
1 Batterskull, SoBM
3 Island, 1 Plains
4 Strand, Delta, Tundra, Factory, Waste
The last slot essentially came down to Clique or Crucible and I went with Clique because it's good against everything Crucible is, but better in many other matchups. Part of the reason I began playing this deck instead of BUGstill is because of how strong it was in the heads-up. I lost what seemed like a large majority of games, both in testing and sanctioned play, despite (in my opinion) significantly outplaying my opponents. Crucible lock was just a wash anyway when I had active Loam to stall into Deed.
My experiences are obviously anecdotal, but I think I (and most) like the idea of Crucible more than I like Crucible. Sometimes it just wins and you're like "fuck yeah." Most of them time I draw it, though, I have to wonder if it isn't just win-more. I don't cut it entirely because a copy in the board is still fine, but it's rarely a card I want to see more than any other good card in my deck. It's not even a must-counter for 2-color decks with enough basics to operate, but Clique remains one of the cards they least want to see (which I know because it's one of the cards I least want to see across from me).
Great success!
You have a Tundra where I have a Crucible. I don't see that as an issue.
Any interesting reasons for Visions over Standstill, or are you in the Standstill is horrible party?
I play to my meta. Vision began as Standstill, but I live in NYC where the Legacy community is badly underdeveloped so there are lots of AEther Vials. When I go to Vestal, it's also very blue. I still carry a sleeved set of Standstills along with my alternate sideboard cards to SCG events, in case I see other decks, but in the interim, Vision is much better here.
Great success!
Am I the only one who likes Standstill against Visions decks?
standstill is good against visions yes, but standstill is just meh and forces you to board out your card draw engine, while you never board out visions.
which sword do u guys prefer? body and mind or feast and famine?
my list is pretty much identical to IsThisACatInAHat?s list, just wondering what your sb was? I want to play a 3rd equipment sb but not sure wats the best one to play, ive seen jittes, 2nd batterskull, diff sword etc.
I'm totally fine with boarding out Standstill against Merfolk, I would rather rely on stick and protecting a Stoneforge Mystic. Also, Wraths are more than enough card advantage in that match up.
Maybe not, but I prefer to Vision against Standstill decks. In a game of who has the most (and most relevant) cards, I prefer Vision because it's harder to counter (which matters a lot to me) and I don't run the risk of my opponent playing under it better than I do. Even assuming they resolve Standstill and I'm forced to break it because they stuck it with Vision @1, that's about the best way I can think of to break it: untapped and with my own draw-3 on the stack. I still side it out a lot of times against Vial decks because I need the space, but Vision is actually a really good card right now. When I stop hating Standstills in my hand, they'll come back in.
Great success!
I play the traditional Blade Control list with standstill, 1x crucible instead of 1x clique, and karakas instead of the 3rd basic island. Also 4 Jace instead of 3/1 or 2/2 split with Elspeth Errant. I run the standard counterspell suite of 4/4/3 FoW/Misstep/Snare. I find the NO RUG matchup pretty hard game 1 and after boarding it is still difficult especially when they can be running 4+ blasts (ele/pyro) . A lot of times I wish that I had counterspell in hand instead of mental misstep/snare as leaning on Force of Will to counter natural order is hard especially when they run their own playset plus daze. And green sun's zenith usually dodges mental misstep/snare.
Anyone have a good sideboard for NO RUG as well as other variants while still being able to have good matchups against Dredge etc? Dredge will be making a comeback due to 2 lists making the top 16 in the last SCG open. NO RUG and co. made huge showings proving that the Hatfields analyses of the previous SCG(s) was correct in that Stoneblade seems to have a terrible matchup vs NO RUG/variants and also that no Stoneblade list made the top 16 at Cinc. Hell, only one control list even made the top 16 and it was mono blue...Of course, we don't know what the Cinc metagame consisted of but 7 of the top 16 decks were running Green Sun's Zenith and 4 of the 7 running NO. I am eager and somewhat scared to see what Seattle has in store coming off the Cinc event. NO RUG with JaceTMS is pretty scary in itself, especially ramping into one.
Anyway, rambling done. How should we shore up the NO and its variants matchup while keeping relatively even with the rest of the field? Is it possible that running our conditional counterspells like mental misstep and spell snare/pierce actually hurting us instead of playing real hard counters like the archaic standby 'counterspell'? Or just play more sweepers/humility which makes our creatures bad as well unless equipped?
Is the consensus that Standstill is better in an environment with non-Vial aggro and combo, and Ancestral Visions better for an environment with Vial aggro and the mirror?
I only like vision(s) when playing against decks with vial and/or control decks playing only the conditional counterspell(s) like spell snare/misstep/daze/pierce since Force of Will is the only thing in those particular control decks that can 'hard' counter an Ancestral Visions once that last counter is off. Otherwise, I like standstill better against most everything else.
went 4-0 at my local weekly legacy event with this list
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Mishras Factory
4 Tundra
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vendillion Clique
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Body and Mind
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Jace the Mind Sculptor
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Mental Misstep
3 Spell Snare
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sb
1 Vendillion Clique
3 Meddling Mage
2 Disenchant
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Wrath of God
3 Path to Exile
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Spell Pierce
was pretty happy with everything, I have loved Ancestral for years and I love being able to play it again and I wouldn't play Standstill over it ever.
@crovakiet
I tested a bit vs NO RUG and it is the hardest matchup ive faced with the deck, with only 4 forces I really missed Counterspell to deal with NO itself. One of the ways I was winning was instead of fitting over the actual NO, i just tried to kill all their guys, bringing in Paths and WOGs and just fought over theyre creatures and Zeniths and it was working better then trying to counter they're stuff when they are gonna bring in 4+ REB effects. As much as I like Counterspell I find it a little hard to reasonably play it with so many non blue lands, and I dont think you need it when your tapping out/low with cliqued/SFM compared to the UW No Mystic Control that I had played before
Has anyone looked at the decklists from the Japan 2011 Legacy Nats found @ http://coverage.mtg-jp.com/jpnats11/decklist/001891/
If you don't want to be looking at Japanese characters the top 8 is listed here:
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/deck.php?id=6522
The deck I was particularly looking at/interested most in was the 2nd place U/W/G Blade Control...
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...2&iddeck=47236
Any thoughts? Does splashing green for Knight of the Reliquary + its ability to tutor utility lands (Karakas notably absent from that particular list) and Krosan Grip in the board worth it? Especially in light of the traditional U/W list?
Or maybe I shouldn't have even bothered posting this especially since the U/W/R version is not discussed in this thread due to their underlying difference(s)?
Its an agro bant:Z.
Just a bit more defensive.
This deck doesnt have much to do with soneblade, tbh.
Hey guys I have an idea. I have messed with UW stoneblade and given that this is an equipment driven deck in a way, we want to find bodies to put the equipment on. SFM is obviously in the list, Cliques, and Bobs are other options depending on colors, but what do yall think about squadron hawk. They are cheap small, evasive bodies that you can put a stick on. And the card advantage given by running them negates our struggle to find a body if one dies to swords/GFTT etc.
They don't bring the same utility as clique, but they provide some great CA.
The hawks were tried before and eventually became cliques...
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