Went 3-0 again at my weekly, beating Tom Ross Infect (2-0), MUD (2-0) and Jund NicFit (2-0). I think you're correct Secretly, in that Supreme Verdict is much, much better in my specific meta than Council's Judgment would be, although I have the feeling that Council's Judgment may be correct to run in a more open, blind meta like an SCG Open.
Congrats and that's quite an eclectic mix of decks.Originally Posted by Arsenal
I recently picked up the deck and finally think I have found the legacy deck I should have been playing all along. The deck gives me everything I want out of magic. I went 3-0-1 at my local this week playing DnT, ANT, DnT, and drew with shardless bug (although played 1 game for fun which I won).
I'm currently playing the following list:
Lands
Polluted delta x4
Flooded strand x4
Marsh flats x1
Island x3
Plains x2
Swamp x1
Karakas x1
Scrubland x1
Underground sea x2
Tundra x3
Creatures
Snapcaster mage x3
Vendilion clique x3
Stoneforge mystic x4
Noncreatures
Jace, the mind sculptor x3
Lingering souls x2
Batterskull x1
Umezawa's jitte x1
Ponder x2
Counterspell x1
Brainstorm x4
Force of will x4
Swords to plowshares x4
Supreme verdict x1
Spell pierce x2
Council's judgement x1
Thoughtseize x2
Sideboard
Engineered explosives x1
Council's judgement x1
Pithing needle x2
Thoughtseize x2
Flusterstorm x2
Surgical extraction x3
Supreme verdict x1
Counterspell x1
Zealous persecution x2
I've been pretty happy with this list, although I may change the sideboard counterspell to a disenchant. Any suggestions are definitely welcome. My meta consists of mostly Tier 1 to 1.5 strategies.
Currently Playing
Legacy: ANT
So I've been playing Esper Stoneblade for about three years now and after a pretty long hiatus of playing RUG delver, Tin Fins, BUG Nic Fit, and a bunch of other random decks I decided to get back to my baby with some changes I really liked. I took some time off from the deck because the store I play at (Redcap's Corner in Philadelphia) has a really big miracles meta which is a rough match-up for me at least.
Last Wednesday I was able to ride this list to a 4-0 record. I really like the sideboard that I played using an Enlightened Tutor for silver bullets package.
Creatures
4 Baleful Strix
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
Instants and Sorceries
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Force of Will
Artifacts
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
Planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Karakas
1 Academy Ruins
4 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Rest in Peace
1 Pithing Needle
1 Manriki-Gusari
3 Spell Pierce
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Detention Sphere
2 Zealous Persecution
Round 1 vs. Merfolk
Game 1 he played a bunch of guys and killed me. Led with caverns on merfolk into a vial so that blanked the force I had and gave him the ability to flash in his lords in response to my discard spells as the game moved on. Swords'd a guy or two but ended up dying to True Name.
-4 FoW, + Explosives, + Det Sphere, +2 Zealous Persecutions. I know he isn't playing wasteland so I don't bother with spell pierces, he should be taking out dazes on the draw and Forces against fair match-ups
Game 2 he ends up with two True-Names in play and a Phantasmal Image copying one of them. Can't draw a persecution but a turn 5 engineered explosives activation cleans it up for my batterskull to finish him off over the next few turns.
Game 3 he mulligans to 5 and I have a hand full of discard spells. Yea.
Round 2 vs. Death and Taxes
Game 1 he opens with Mother into Thalia. I'm able to swords the mother before Thalia resolves. True-Name destroys this match-up while holding a SoFI.
-4 FoW, +Manriki, +2 Persecutions, + Explosives
Game 2 he is able to land a turn 2 SFM I can't answer and gets too far ahead even though we did have a really good, grindy game. Ended up with my only threat left being a Clique while he had a Karakas in play. Misplayed this game by searching up SoFI rather than Manriki (already had Jitte) which just got eaten by his Manriki.
Game 3 I make him discard some cards, a Thalia annoys me for a little but is better than the Mirran Crusader sitting in play. Eventually owl holding jitte kills him.
Round 3 vs. UR Delver
This is a good friend of mine so I know what I'm against
Game 1 I get a batterskull into play. Against burn. Hit my land drops while protecting my life total and plopped that sucker into play. Thanks SFM for pseudo gaining me 3 life.
-4 FoW, -3 Thoughtseize, +2 Enlightened Tutor, +CoP:Red, +Explosives, +3 Spell Pierce
Game 2 He opens with a delver, bolts my SFM, cliques away the CoP I tutored for, and Prices me for 6
Game 3 His turn 1 he plays a delver that doesn't flip, follows that with 2 more delvers. I'm dead right? Turn 3 no flip still. I play my explosives on turn 4 holding up spell pierce, I pierce his pierce and then take a one way trip to blowout city. I kill him with a TNN and Jitte while his hand is basically empty.
Top 8
Haven't played this guy before. Nice guy that said he was getting back into magic after having not played for a while.
Game 1 he's on Jund so he punishing fires my hopes and dreams away while my hand gets shredded. Bad match-up
-4 FoW, +2 Tutors, +CoP:Red, +Rest in Peace
Game 2 I make him discard his goyf and am happy to see he doesn't have any discard spells in hand. I swords his Bob and proceed to find Jace and fateseal him out of the game.
Game 3 I inquisition him seeing 2 goyfs, Lili and some other stuff I didn't care about. Take Lili and get pumped about the RiP in my hand. Turn two I slam RiP against the goyf he now has in play. Next turn I get Circle of Protection into play. His turn he sadly plays Pithing Needle on my Circle. He never finds the abrupt decay and I ride a combination of grumpy owls and merfolk assassin to win.
I end up learning that he took out his Thoughtseizes and brought in Pyroblasts in place of them... told him to keep them in for next week.
Top 4 split so we aren't there all night (this happens basically every week)
Only change I'm really thinking of is moving one FoW to the board and making the explosives main deck since I brought it in almost every match and it's insane with Academy Ruins.
Hey guys!
I am very in to straight UW blade atm and it is doing great for me!
MD
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council’s Judgment
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
3 Mishra’s Factory
3 Tundra
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
1 Karakas
SB
4 Meddling Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Rest in Peace
2 Luminarch Ascension
1 Disenchant
1 Path to Exile
1 Umezawa's Jitte
The creature matchup is great with 3 Snappy and 2 Verdicts main + the Judgment, sometimes I play 2 Judgment, tends to adjust with my metagame. With quite many blue control decks in my meta such as UWx blade and Miracles (Even some BUG-still) SoFaI and SoFaF main over Jitte has been incredible for me! With 4 Nemesis main the powerlevel of swords is just so over the top its unreal! The only match ups where I really want Jitte are elves and gobbos. Two decks i rarely face in my meta.
Post board I have 4 Mages, 2 Cliques and 2 Fluster vs combo which feels really solid to go with the 3 pierce I play MD. Luminarchs Ascension is crazy vs miracles, I really suggest that one if you have problems with that matchup!
Hope you like it and feel free to comment and give feedback!
Peace!
I'm a big supporter of the straight UW Blade Control lists. I like the stable manabase, the maindeck Verdicts and countersuite, and the Mishra's Factories. I do have to question your decision to drop Jitte from the maindeck. Jitte is the equipment that heavily sways the game in our favor against some relevant decks; Elves, D&T, even other Blade decks, EtW tokens from TES/ANT, and then also a swath of tier 1.5/2 decks like Goblins, Deadguy Ale, etc. I like SoFaF in the side, Jitte main.
I do agree, I would never take 2 swords main to a larger tournament with unknown players. It has just been a very specific meta choice for me since I know what 90% of the locals are playing.
After extensive playtesting I want to cut 1 counterspell, maybe even 2. I feel like its a great card vs miracles but overall blade needs mana to lay down proactive threats. What do you think should replace it? Im thinking about third snappy, single clique (unlocks a slot in the board), or upping to 24 lands.
How come this thread is deader than dead? If you guys want to try out my deck for a new experience then you are welcome to. I have played in a couple of tournaments and the winrate is about 80
% winrate in matches so far (about 20 matches played against all kind of decks)
Please do give comments and ideas. Cards I have allready considered and removed from the list: Venser, Shaper Savant, Spell Pierce, Rest in Peace, Counterbalance
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True-Name Nemesis
SORCERIES (2)
2 Council’s Judgment
INSTANTS (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Snare
2 Counterspell
PLANESWALKERS (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
ARTIFACTS (5)
1 Batterskull
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
LANDS (22)
5 Island
2 Plains
2 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
SIDEBOARD (15)
3 Meddling Mage
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Flusterstorm
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Keranos, God of Storms
Hey guys!
I know the thread is almost abandoned, but I believe some people still check it once in a while. So...
I wanted to play some control in legacy. I thought about Miracles, but it's kinda boring. Then I remembered the good old Stoneblade, which is quite nice with the gagas and stuff.
So, I'm working on a rough list and I want your opinion about a few things:
- The number of creature is enough? Is it too much?
- Is Elspeth still a nice choice?
- Should I cut black entirely and play straight UW with Mishra's Factories? I simply think that lingering souls is a huge card! hahaha (sadly, i currently do not own any U. Seas, that's why I'm playing with 2 Scrublands)
- Is 2 Jaces enough?
The list that looks like this:
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
1 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
2 Scrubland
5 Island
2 Plains
1 Swamp
No SB yet
Thanks!
Hey, i really liked the discussions here some time ago and I still think it's a great deck in the actual metagame.
I'm a big fan of the good old straight UW-list including 4 factories.
I would replace the lingering souls with another Snapcaster mage and Vendilion Clique.
So your creature count would be fine in both versions.
Elspeth is still a great card for this deck.
It just can do so much for our gameplan. Producing token you can equip, beating every other PW in a duel and it even can race.
If i were you i would definetly go for thr uw version, even if you would have some Useas ;)
I like 3 jace but i think 2 are fine too.
You should run 2 MD back to basics. The card is nuts with a landbase like that. I own Seas, and play the below list. There are no budget cuts, in my experience this is the best esper control list.
21 Lands:
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
2 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
2 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
3 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Council's Judgment
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Lingering Souls
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
2 Back to Basics
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard:
2 Flusterstorm
1 Pithing Needle
3 Thoughtseize
1 Disenchant
2 Rest in Peace
1 Zealous Persecution
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Notion Thief
1 Council's Judgment
1 Force of Will
Something similar to the above list, I have done well with. You have no MD black besides souls so you can fetch 2 Basic Plains, 2 Islands and cast all your spells, while being wasteland and B2B proof. Back to Basics is nuts. Espers worst matchups are the grindy GBx matchups. Basics wrecks them. Just cast it when they tap out and you usually win.
The 4 ponders are there because I value, consistency and being able to find 1/2-ofs when I need them. I think they are the right choice, but I would not hold it against anyone if they cut some ponders for a 22nd land, a 2nd MD judgment, a top, 4th FoW, or whatever. That said, if you are on a budget 4 ponders is going to be cheaper (and in my opinion better). I also am currently testing 2 Misdirections in the SB FoW and Council's Judgment slots to help against Hymn/Recall decks and blue based combo like Sneak and Show or High Tide.
Even with 8 cantrips, 21 lands seems far too low to support so many 3 and 4 drops. How has that manabase been treating you? I run 24 lands in my UW build and still run into mana issues occassionally.
Its been fine. You are able to keep 1-2 land hands much more aggressively due to the ponders. I definitely get land screwed less with 21 lands and 4 ponders than with 23 lands and no ponders. The land fixing and mana demands are much more closer to that of 4 ponders UWr Miracles than UW stoneblade. You are basically a UW deck with only one colorless land (swamp). UW stoneblade, has more utility lands and factories to die to wasteland or not help you get UU or WW.
Compared to this UW landbase
3 Tundras
4 factories
1 Karakas
1 Ruins/Morland Haunt
4 Stands
4 U fetches
2 W fetches
3 Island
2 Plains
UW:
Lands that dont die to wasteland: 15
Make U: 16
Make W: 16
Esper B2B:
Lands that dont die to wasteland: 17
Make U: 17
Make W: 15
Make B: 13
You have more waste proof lands, more blue sources, and just 1 less white sources. In most fair matchups, you want 2 plains, 2 island by turn 4. 1 Swamp can come latter if you need it. In my list, fighting through wasteland, getting UU and WW is easier by turn 4.
Having factories is definitely awesome, but as far as meeting mana demands goes, my list does it better than UW stoneblade.
The 4 ponders also let you get away with doing stuff like using only 2 RIP, 2 B2B, 1-2 CJ, 2-3 board wipes, etc, but still seeing them much more frequently when you want them.
Hey, I wanted to know everyones thoughts on the following list. I recently dropped the 4 Lighting Bolts and thought of going for a more traditional UW blade approach with red board options.
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
2 Council's Judgment
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
2 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Tundra
4 Island
3 Plains
Sideboard
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Flusterstorm
1 Disenchant
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Rest in Peace
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
2 Blood Moon
My thoughts is to try and attack the greedy manabases of the GBX decks while still having game against miracles through red blast effects. Please feel free to comment and critique as this deck has been a fun work in progress.
So I've picked up U/W Stoneblade for the Legacy GP in NJ in November.
Here is the list I am currently playing/testing/tweaking.
Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Sorceries (12)
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
2 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Treasure Cruise
Instants (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
Artifacts (2)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
6 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard (15)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Back to Basics
1 Chill
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to Exile
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
The only real questionable cards are the 3rd MB Spell Pierce and the SB Venser, Shaper Savant imo. The Venser should probably just be a 2nd Enlightened Tutor or 2nd Path to Exile and the 3rd Spell Pierce could be anything from a Sword of Fire and Ice, Sword of Feast and Famine, 22nd land, 3rd Preordain, 2nd Counterspell, singleton Jace, the Mind Sculptor or even a singleton Path to Exile, etc.
Thoughts? Comments?
Some advice: I would play 3JAce for sure (cutting 2preordain and 1clique,but playing the 2nd one sb. U really want to play Jace in this deck. Besides that ur list looks pretty good. Here are some changes I'd make. I'd play a 2nd plains MD and a 11th fetch(cutting karakas and Island). Karakas is good, but it's not really needed if you just play 1clique MD. I know you play a venser too but I'd cut the venser from the sb. Also I like a 2nd Supreme verdict for a council's(playing the 2nd council side) since u really want 2 sweepers against a lot of decks(like UR Delver,...). I like your counter suite but it might be better to play 2spell pierce-2counterspell instead of 3-1. For the sideboard I can really recommend a sword of feast and famine in there. Hope this helped,good luck!
Thanks for the advice!
I think I am going to play test two different lists before GP NJ. One with Enlightened Tutor and the other without.
w/o Enlightened Tutor Package
Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Sorceries (11)
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Treasure Cruise
Instants (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
Artifacts (3)
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
6 Island
1 Plains
Sideboard (15)
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Path to Exile
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
2 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
w/ Enlightened Tutor Package
Creatures (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
Sorceries (10)
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Treasure Cruise
Instants (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
Artifacts (4)
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Lands (21)
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Marsh Flats
3 Tundra
1 Karakas
5 Island
2 Plains
Sideboard (15)
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Back to Basics
1 Chill
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Path to Exile
1 Council's Judgment
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Spell Pierce
1 Flusterstorm
1 Vendilion Clique
The only MB differences between the two is substituting an island for a plains since I will be bringing Back to Basics vs. a few matchups (Jund, BUG, RUG Delver, etc.) and Council's Judgment and Supreme Verdict are some of my better cards in those games and a singleton Sensei's Divining Top over a Preordain since it can be fetched with Enlightened Tutor in the games that I naturally draw my SB artifacts/enchantments. I also have a Venser, Shaper Savant that I kind of want to make room for in the SB.
Personally, I would cut preordain, I know Treasure Cruise is awesome and all but 4 Ponder and 4 BS is pretty good already. Have you thought about splashing? Both red and black can be very powerful splashes that don't mess up your B2B plan if you wanna still do that (Joe Bernal did this resulting in great success). Thoughtseize+surgical=brutal or TS+snappy=more brutal. You also get access to my favorite card; Lingering Souls=most brutal. There's no better feeling then flashing this back and suiting one up to an empty Bskull. REB has probably never been more powerful if you want to go for the red splash. Don't forget Jace is an option! He's not as good as treasure cruise but he's still good against grindier matchups. Speaking of which, hows your game against miracles?
There is basically no downside to splashing black or red. Adding 2 lands, a basic and nonbasic, or 2 nonbasics is all it takes to add something like lingering souls or red elemental blast and blood moon and make a HUGE difference in a lot of matchups. Also, yeah jace is too good to not run. I would probably cut the preordains for 2 jace, but 3 would be ideal.
I don't think a black splash is worth anything since I think discard is pretty bad atm. I think a red splash could be useful for a couple of REB though. I just don't like how it shapes up with my B2B plan. I don't want to add a mountain but I could see adding 2 Volcanics in place of islands. I guess most blue matchups you don't want B2B anyways (besides BUG which has very few blue cards to begin with and RUG which B2B might be too slow).
As for Jace, you can't get away with 21 lands if you run him and I think TC does everything you want from Jace but better. I could see running 1-2 Jace if you go up to 22-23 lands and cut either preordain, a TC, or top. I still don't think he is all that great atm.
Ive never had a problem running 21 lands and Jace. Miracles also does it all the time. Dont let the land count be the reason not to run jace. I don't think TC can replace jace entirely, although they do fill a similar role.
Splashing red gives you an upgrade to back to basics: bloodmoon and you dont need a basic mountain for it to be good. The matchups where B2B are the matchups where a resolved blood moon is usually game over.
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