[DTB] Blade Control

[useL]

Nice report and well done. It is no wonder you lost to Miracles. You have 0 good cards to bring in against them, maybe a few cards that can be used in more matchups?

[anwei]

0 Ponder: Ponder is an excellent turn 1 play, and an excellent late game play, but it is bad on turns 2-5 which is where most of Legacy happens. This deck is mana-hungry and I just think it is so important to pass with as much mana available as possible unless you are playing a threat.

I think this is the most helpful sentence I've read, about any deck, in like a year. I've had Ponder counts all over the place (well, 1-4) in playtesting and small events, and this exactly comports with my experience (or at least justifies my desire to cut them while keeping a higher DTT count).

[rancOr_]

Ponder makes sure u hit land drops and find the cards u need. If anything ponder reduces variance and helps with DTT overall.

[redesign1991]

So I recently made an enquiry towards building an Esper list because I think Stoneblade is the best place to fit my SFM's and because I have a playset of Flooded, Polluted and 2 U. Sea's from playing reanimator and converging it into UWr would be too expensive for the time being. I've been creating a pretty basic list and I've ended up with something like this:

Creatures (9)
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x True-Name Nemesis
1x Vendilion Clique

Instants & Sorceries (25)
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Lingering Souls
2x Dig Through Time
2x Spell Pierce
2x Counterspell
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Force of Will

Artifacts (2)
1x Batterskull
1x Umezawa's Jitte

Planeswalkers (2)
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands (22)
4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Marsh Flats
2x Underground Sea
2x Tundra
5x Island
2x Plains
1x Swamp

I haven't got a single Tundra yet, hence for the time being I've only listed 2. I know that 4 is obviously better but I'm working on a budget.

I assume that when choosing between Clique, TNN and Snappy, the latter one is the worst option to play in Esper, right? Would you consider Thoughtseize more of a sideboard card in this type of deck or not? Also, is going on a heavy discard route a thing with this deck? Like say Hymn and maybe Liliana?

Please be honest and let me know if the list is good or absolute crap, but keep into consideration that I'm new to Legacy and this archtype.

[Einherjer]

Just chiming in here quickly to point you towards a deck that might just be what you're looking for: Esper, Stoneblade, and not 4 of every dual land.

Take a look at this Esper list played by Valentin Mackl at one of the tournaments that I organised. There are 5 cards missing from the decklist, 4 of them are Thought Scour. No idea what the last one is. :D

http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16222&iddeck=121209

Greetings

[redesign1991]

That looks like an interesting list to me of which I actually own almost all the cards. It also looks like it would save me some money. At first glance I'd say Batterskull was missing but then I noticed it's in the sideboard. Another error in the list seems to be that there's 4 Thoughtseize MD and 1 side. But it's definitely a list that points me into a good direction for what I was looking to create. Thanks for sharing!

[h2o]

Ponder makes sure u hit land drops and find the cards u need. If anything ponder reduces variance and helps with DTT overall.

This is true, but I'm not yet convinced it's worth the slots. Another consideration is that we have so many shuffle effects that if you see 2-3 good cards you might have to shuffle some away to fetch or Stoneforge.

All that being said, the Legacy IQ was only my first major event with the deck so I don't consider myself an expert. I just make observations based on my experiences and the advice of my playgroup. I welcome others to share their opinions and back them up.

[TnA_Will]

I assume that when choosing between Clique, TNN and Snappy, the latter one is the worst option to play in Esper, right? Would you consider Thoughtseize more of a sideboard card in this type of deck or not? Also, is going on a heavy discard route a thing with this deck? Like say Hymn and maybe Liliana?

Please be honest and let me know if the list is good or absolute crap, but keep into consideration that I'm new to Legacy and this archtype.

I think the very first question you need to ask yourself is what type of STM/Blade deck you are wanting to build. It seems over the last year this archtype has branched out to go from Control to Tempo and even Aggro builds...

If you are wanting to run Jace in an esper list then that makes you more of a control list and Snapcaster and thoughtseize and even Liliana are good choices for that type of deck! If you are wanting to play more Tempo/Control then pairing up with snap caster, Lingering souls and fire and ice seem like a good fit.

If you are wanting to go more agro/temp then replacing the Cliques with TNN and running batterskull, sword and Jitte are pretty aggressive! The list that someone linked to seems to fit more of the Tempo/Control style and using the controlling elements of Thoughtseize, Jace, and STP with the tempo of Lingering Souls/STM and snapcasters... To me in that deck if they want to run 4x Thought Scour I would add another Threat of Tasigur because it could be another tempo threat and add more playability to the GY cards!

So it really does depend on your play style and how you want to take the deck. Personally I'm trying really hard to get an Aggro/Tempo build to work well... Still testing and tweaking but I love TNN!

[h2o]

Stoneblade has a higher top 8 market share than any other archetype in the last 10 months according to http://www.mtgtop8.com/format?f=LE

can someone please explain why it's in the same forum as Food Chain and Eva Green

[Hrothgar]

Hey Hrothgar, that was me

Great h2o, great performance and final result!
Your position is good stuff for us!

My overall strategy with the deck is: do 1 for 1 trades early, Brainstorm, and set up a Dig through Time. Dig for the correct threats and then switch to being proactive.

This is one of the right way to play the deck.

Let me comment on my deck choices:

4 Tundra/2 Volc: I prefer to fetch Volcanics Just In Time when you're going to cast something. I don't like to leave them around waiting to get Wastelanded, instead baiting them to waste my white sources. Also with so many double white cards, naturally drawing a nonwhite source sucks. The only thing you potentially lose out on here is Bolt-Snap-Bolt plays.

This is right...
I'm Miracle player and I like to play with many basic lands, but this deck is so different and I want try this your solution.

1 Plains: I used to run 2 so I could play double white cards under Blood Moon, but I cut a Plains for the 12th Fetch when I added a second Clique (cutting the forth StP).

Uhm...i don't understand how you can play only BB cards under Blood Moon..

0 Ponder: Ponder is an excellent turn 1 play, and an excellent late game play, but it is bad on turns 2-5 which is where most of Legacy happens. This deck is mana-hungry and I just think it is so important to pass with as much mana available as possible unless you are playing a threat.

Imho this is a mid-control deck that frequently arrives in the late game.
I like Ponders but your speech have a reason.
I want to try.

2 Spell Pierce: A concession to shenanigans like Chalice, Trinisphere, Grim Monolith, and Liliana. It might be the worst card in the 60 but it can save your ass sometimes.

Imho this deck don't have mana source control and i prefer the solidity of Spell Snare at Spell Pierce.

3 Dig: This card is essential. It is the lifeblood of control archetypes these days. I don't know whether it's correct to run 3 or 4, but I've lost games to having multiples in my hand before.

2 or 3 is the right way imho.
I play 4x DTT into Golddigger but multiple copies in hand are bad stuff, especially in a meta with Deathrite Shaman o other graveyeard control.

2 Council's Judgment: A concession to Miracles, D&T, TNN, planeswalkers, and MUD. Yes, MUD is a real deck. Some advocate a 1:1 split - you could trade it for a Pyroblast in the main if you have a lot of blue decks in the meta. I brought in Pyroblast less than 50% of the time last weekend.

I don't like soma cards like Pyroblast o similar.
I don't want deadly cards vs the non-blue deck.
I quote your thoughts about this.

2 Blood Moon: This is the only card (besides not yet owning Underground Seas) keeping me from playing Esper control lists. It's so good, it's an auto win against BUG if they tap out, RUG if they can't find a Forest for Grip, and UWR Delver has no answer to it. Great against Post and MUD, but not an auto-win. In retrospect I should have brought it in against Infect (my only loss in Swiss).

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3 Surgical: Your graveyard hate is dicey because you are playing Dig and Snapcaster. Rest in Peace and Grafdiggers are very awkward. I still haven't won against Dredge with the Surgical+Priest combo in 3 matches, it's kind of a punt. Surgical also does work against Punishing Fire and Loam decks.

Right analysis imho.
Rest in Peace are a total lock vs some deck and nullify Deathrite and Tarmo....but Dig and Snappy goes trouble (especially Dig)

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Ponder makes sure u hit land drops and find the cards u need. If anything ponder reduces variance and helps with DTT overall.

This is the way I play in this time.
The solidity of the deck are helped from this cards.

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And now a decklist, played in Italy and positioned 2nd at MKM series in Roma (202 players):


Creatures [10]
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Stoneforge Mystic

Instants [20]
2 Counterspell
2 Dig Through Time
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will

Sorceries [4]
4 Ponder

Planeswalkers [2]
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Artifacts [2]
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte

Lands [20]
1 Karakas
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
2 Tundra
3 Island
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand

1 Meddling Mage
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Pyroclasm
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wear // Tear
2 Blood Moon
1 Pyroblast
1 Engineered Explosives

Imho this is one of the strongest version of the deck.
In my meta, full of wasteland, i have only changed in the main deck 1 Volcanic into a 1 Mountain (and obviously, the sideboard) and i have a great manabase,creatures game, control's element, planeswalker etc etc.

[Misplayer]

Which of Spell Snare or Spell Pierce is better in this deck / in the metagame in general? I can see merits for both, but I'm leaning towards Spell Snare for the following reasons:

- Better in the late game (and/or with Snapcaster)
- Strong in a large percentage of the metagame, but largely blanks vs Show and Tell strategies and most Delver strategies

Is Snare actually better than Pierce against Miracles?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Depends on what version you are running. UW, a splash? Which splash. Honestly, Pierce and actual Counterspell are my choices. Snare is great when it's good, but just crap in so many other ways that I just avoid those disappointing situations by not playing snare.

From my phone. I do my best, dammit!

[h2o]

Which of Spell Snare or Spell Pierce is better in this deck / in the metagame in general? I can see merits for both, but I'm leaning towards Spell Snare for the following reasons:

- Better in the late game (and/or with Snapcaster)
- Strong in a large percentage of the metagame, but largely blanks vs Show and Tell strategies and most Delver strategies

Is Snare actually better than Pierce against Miracles?

Like in many matchups, Pierce is better on the play and Snare is better on the draw.

[useL]

Which of Spell Snare or Spell Pierce is better in this deck / in the metagame in general? I can see merits for both, but I'm leaning towards Spell Snare for the following reasons:

- Better in the late game (and/or with Snapcaster)
- Strong in a large percentage of the metagame, but largely blanks vs Show and Tell strategies and most Delver strategies

Is Snare actually better than Pierce against Miracles?

Snare is horrible against decks where it is horrible and great against the decks that it's great against. It is sort of like Swords to Plowshares. I play Spell Snare to be able to counter important things that might swing the game early and late. I am mostly afraid of three things with my esper build - Hymn to Tourach, Stoneforge Mystic and Counterbalance. Those three spells on opponents turn 2 are the most frightening if I can not answer them. I can counter two of them with Spell Pierce but this can not be done on turn 4. Thus I play snare instead of pierce because I hate drawing pierce on round 8 and having a blank card. Then on the other hand Snare is dead against some decks.

I think it boils down to if you have removal for 2cmc-dudes or not. Because if you play Lightning Bolt you have more answers to Stoneforge Mystic and therefor can play Pierce instead.

[TnA_Will]

Last night I piloted the esper "hybrid" in a 10 man event and based on breakers ended up in 4th with a 2-1-1 record.

I beat Charbelcher 2 games in row thanks to being able to have the counterspells at the start of the game and my opponent not being able to get additional red mana sources quickly enough to reload and fire (game 1) and a well placed V. Clique to take belcher out of his hand on game 2 (after using counters for more mana denial).

I then beat infect. This match up is one that I have become very comfortable playing because my friend is the one piloting the deck and I have played many games against him. Tough games but I managed to get by 2-1.

Then game 3 was the best match of the night and against the deck I was trying to "mirror" by making this hybrid.... Game 3 was against the jeskai blade "aggro" deck that runs the Digs/Pyromancer/Lightning bolts/ etc.... This went to a game 3 draw and was very evenly matched! One of the more fun matches I've had in recent memory!

We took turns trading threat for threat and just when I thought in turns I might have had a chance to get it, he had a pyroclasm board sweeper to eliminate the fae tokens and everything but my TNN.

Game 4 I got paired against someone that the Jeskai deck had already beaten but seems to be a HORRIBLE match up for me!!!! Goblins! I'm not sure if it's just because it hits so quick or what it is, but game 1 I get DESTROYED and game 2 I can't battle thru turn 1 and 2 waste lands and get a white source quick enough to cast Contaiment Priest... He swarms and over powers me for the win (2-0).

All in all fun games and decent testing, I don't think I need to worry to much about Goblins on the main scene but I may change up the sideboard in local events because 2 Z.P. and 2x Containment Preists weren't enough to fight him off!

[useL]

I decided to take pictures of my sideboarding last local tournament. Missed one picture but here are three matches. I am not sure it is correctly boarded especially not against Grixis-delver. Here's my list:

CREATURES (9)
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
SORCERIES (9)
2 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Ponder
2 Lingering Souls
1 Council’s Judgment
INSTANTS (16)
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Spell Snare
2 Dig Through Time
4 Force of Will
PLANESWALKERS (2)
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
ARTIFACTS (2)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
LANDS (22)
1 Karakas
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Island
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Marsh Flats
SIDEBOARD (15)
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
2 Thoughtseize
2 Flusterstorm
1 Notion Thief
1 Disenchant
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Meddling Mage
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ethersworn Canonist


And here's the boards:
vs jeskai blade (stoneforge x2, 1-2 tnn, cb+top, didnt see any miracles)


vs grixis delver - he also had splash for green to play abrupt decay - how do you usually board against delver+hymn decks? keep force in or remove them? i was very unsure of this . also noticed I missed to take a picture of the 9th boarded card, im pretty sure it was a jace.


vs mud - ran into the old brown combo deck


played another match against goblins but forgot to take a picture

[Hrothgar]

Which of Spell Snare or Spell Pierce is better in this deck / in the metagame in general? I can see merits for both, but I'm leaning towards Spell Snare for the following reasons:

- Better in the late game (and/or with Snapcaster)
- Strong in a large percentage of the metagame, but largely blanks vs Show and Tell strategies and most Delver strategies

Is Snare actually better than Pierce against Miracles?

Imho in the Jeskai version, actually, Spell Snare i better than Spell Pierce.

I play 2 Spell Snare because:

- is an hard counter
- I don't have control on the mana source of my opponent (no Wasteland, no Stifle)
- Snare take more primary cards of the format

Fundamentally i can't counter discard effects with CC (1) and the planeswalkers, but imho this deck (Jeskai) can resist at this danger.

[h2o]

What do you guys think about Nahiri as a one-of in the board? Seems good against Miracles and the mirror. Costs 1 more than Jace but can't be Pyroblasted.

[Koby]

What do you guys think about Nahiri as a one-of in the board? Seems good against Miracles and the mirror. Costs 1 more than Jace but can't be Pyroblasted.

Why not just play Elspeth, Knight-Errant? She produces tokens, makes them bigger, and still only costs 4 mana. Elspeth is known technology vs Jace, and usually beats Jace in face-on PWer battles.

[beez]

True, but it does seem to have a nice synergy with Stoneforge decks and it could be useful to get back an equipment back from the grave. I've been in some grindy games with both equipment gone. The 5 mana and double white is pretty steep, but I've played Keranos, God of Storms in place of a second Jace and it's really pretty good and not too bad to cast. I may try this one in testing as I do like the synergy it might bring as a Stoneforge deck first and foremost than a general midrange control deck.