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Thread: [Deck] UWb Esperblade

  1. #41

    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Im interested in what a build including thopter foundry would look like, perhaps someone could point me towards a list.

  2. #42

    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Quote Originally Posted by honz View Post
    Im interested in what a build including thopter foundry would look like, perhaps someone could point me towards a list.
    Maybe i'm wrong but i think that you use Stoneforge or Thopter Foundry, the two in the same deck seems awkward, they kinda do the same thing, nevertheless i thought about a list, i never tested it out, its a mix between my older Counterbalance and my current UWB Blade.

    2 Thopter Foundry
    1 Sword of Meek

    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Body and Mind

    2 Vendilion Clique
    3 Dark Confidant

    1 Enginered Explosives
    1 Crucible of Worlds

    4 Brainstorm
    2 Intuition
    2 Jace the Mind Sculptor

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Mental Misstep
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Force of Will

    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand

    1 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    2 Tundra

    1 Swamp
    2 Island
    1 Plains

    2 Wasteland
    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Buried Ruin
    1 Karakas
    1 Tolaria West

    Hope it helps...

  3. #43

    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Creatures
    4 Dark confidants
    4 Stoneforge Mystic

    artifacts
    2 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Body and Mind

    Sorceries
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Vindicate or O-Ring

    Instants
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    3 stifles
    3 Mental Misstep
    3 Daze
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Force of Will

    4 Brainstorm

    Lands
    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Marsh Flats
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Scrubland
    1 Tundra
    1 Island
    1 Plains

    Sb:
    3 Bitterblossom
    3 Extirpate
    1 Swords to Plowshares
    1 diabolic edict
    1 Manriki-Gusari
    1 Jitte
    2 relic
    3 perish

    This is my current list and I still need to fine tune it. Let me know what you guy's think, it's very similar to wcm and pingu's. Except it runs one plains over the marsh flats; bobs over tombstalkers and i squeezed in 3 vindicates some how (it's very important to have permanent removal, I got owned by back to basics, and Manriki-Gusari). Yes I know I run 61 cards, however that is how I have always played, so no need to give me the whole 60 card decks are superior debate.

    I really like this deck plays and how it is just filled with threats. I am wondering about the bitterblossom and jittes in the side, I haven't managed to play it yet. However I haven't played tested it much at all.

    What do you guys think of O-Rings vs vindicates? It isn't as good, however O-Rings can save you when people show and tell an emrakul or a hive mind (first two relevant things off the top of my head) and usually those decks can't deal with enchantments anyways.

    Feedback would be appreciated. Thanks guys.
    Last edited by uprite; 07-21-2011 at 12:07 AM. Reason: deck list change

  4. #44

    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Quote Originally Posted by uprite View Post
    Creatures
    4 Dark confidants
    4 Stoneforge Mystic

    artifacts
    2 Batterskull
    1 Sword of Body and Mind

    Sorceries
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    3 Vindicate or O-Ring

    Instants
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    3 stifles
    3 Mental Misstep
    3 Daze
    3 Spell Snare
    4 Force of Will

    4 Brainstorm

    Lands
    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Marsh Flats
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Scrubland
    1 Tundra
    1 Island
    1 Plains

    Sb:
    3 Bitterblossom
    3 Extirpate
    1 Swords to Plowshares
    1 diabolic edict
    1 Manriki-Gusari
    1 Jitte
    2 relic
    3 perish

    This is my current list and I still need to fine tune it. Let me know what you guy's think, it's very similar to wcm and pingu's. Except it runs one plains over the marsh flats; bobs over tombstalkers and i squeezed in 3 vindicates some how (it's very important to have permanent removal, I got owned by back to basics, and Manriki-Gusari). Yes I know I run 61 cards, however that is how I have always played, so no need to give me the whole 60 card decks are superior debate.

    I really like this deck plays and how it is just filled with threats. I am wondering about the bitterblossom and jittes in the side, I haven't managed to play it yet. However I haven't played tested it much at all.

    What do you guys think of O-Rings vs vindicates? It isn't as good, however O-Rings can save you when people show and tell an emrakul or a hive mind (first two relevant things off the top of my head) and usually those decks can't deal with enchantments anyways.

    Feedback would be appreciated. Thanks guys.
    First off let me say I think it is hilarious that manriki-gusari is a real sideboard card. Anyways, I've never played this deck vs show and tell decks but with team America I never found show and tell deck to be a problem. 90% of the time vindicate is going to be better. A lot of people don't like bitterblossom but I am a fan because it needs to be answered very quickly or you will win. The problem is that it could suffer splash hate from you equipment (k grip, natures claim, etc) actually that's another reason why vindicate is better than o ring.

  5. #45

    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Yeah good point on the sideboard hate. I am currently running vindicate over o ring.

  6. #46
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Scrub-a-dub-dub, 3 Men in a tub:

    12 Card Toolbox:
    4 x Stoneforge Mystic
    1 x Enlightened Tutor
    1 x Batterskull
    1 x Sword of Feast and Famine
    1 x Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 x Umezawa's Jitte
    1 x Phyrexian Revoker
    1 x Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 x Bitterblossom

    12 Cards that Draw Cards:
    4 x Dark Confidant
    4 x Shadowmage Infiltrator
    4 x Brainstorm

    15 Card Disruption Suite:
    3 x Thoughtseize
    3 x Duress
    3 x Mental Misstep
    4 x Swords to Plowshares
    2 x Vindicate

    21 Land:
    4 x Wasteland
    4 x Scrubland
    4 x Marsh Flats
    1 x Tundra
    3 x Underground Sea
    1 x Polluted Delta
    1 x Flooded Strand
    1 x Island
    1 x Plains
    1 x Swamp


    Sideboard:
    3 x Path to Exile
    3 x Perish
    2 x Enlightened Tutor
    1 x Runed Halo
    1 x Ethersworn Canonist
    1 x Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 x Tormod's Crypt
    1 x Ghostly Prison
    1 x Engineered Plague
    1 x Meek Stone

    Top 8 of the Jupiter Game 3k this weekend. Only loss in the swiss was to Dredge. Lost in top 8 to a bant deck. I'll drop a report sometime later this week.
    Team Disqualified Poster - Because not everyone gets to be astronauts when the grow up.

    Original Poster to the Deadguy Ale thread when Jitte was suggested:
    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    What? Is this the magicthegathering.com message boards? What would you take out for it? More importantly, what 10 creatures would you put in? This isn't the proper archetype for equipment of any kind-it's resource denial. This format is Legacy-for the most part, equipment is too slow.

  7. #47
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Round 1 Vs Reanimator:

    My T1 discard doesn't get there, his deck is simply to redundant and he topdecks into a replacement for what I picked away. By turn 3 I'm facing down a Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur and I've got a vindicate, but that's simply not good enough to beat him drawing 7 cards.

    Sideboard Plan:
    -2 Vindicate
    -2 Shadowmage Infiltrator
    -1 Umezawa's Jitte
    -1 Sword of Feast and Famine
    -1 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Path to Exile
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph

    I decided that I needed to be the control deck and I figured he'd blindly side into Show and Tell (like so many reanimator pilots do) so I thought my Metamorphs would probaby get there. The next 2 games I proceeded to hit all of my hate and Metamorph off of Show and Tell landed at least twice...maybe even 3 times.

    2-1 in games
    1-0 in Rounds


    Round 2 against Merfolk:

    Game 1 I hit my early discard and my removal spells, lined up my card advantage and won through equipment - it was just like goldfishing, everything worked perfectly and I was never disrupted...he simply didn't see his countermagic.

    Sideboard plan:
    -3 Mental Misstep
    -1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    -1 Bitterblossom
    -2 Vindicate
    3 Path to Exile
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Ghostly Prison
    1 Engineered Plague

    The second game wasn't really fair. After mulling to 6, he hit Vial and FoW, meaning he was basically starting 3 cards down against a discard deck and I was running 7 1cmc removal spells. It was over before it started.

    Games 4-1
    Rounds 2-0


    Round 3 Vs. Dredge:

    I was in game 1 because I was on the play and took his turn 1 discard outlet, so he was slow to get rolling. I later missed that his bridges should have gone away after he blew up my batterskull with an ancient grudge - I'm not sure that would have won me the game, but it definately would have made it closer.

    Sideboard plan:
    -1 Sword of Feast and Famine
    -1 Shadowmage Infiltrator
    -1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    -2 Vindicate
    -3 Mental Misstep
    3 Path to Exile
    2 Enlightened tutor
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 Ghostly Prison
    1 Tormod's Crypt

    Game 2 I got my crypt out there and held him off for a while, but ultimately I simply didn't have enough hate, and most of the hate I did have ended up getting blown up by Woodfall Primus. Cabal therapy also wrecked me pretty hard. Just a bad matchup for me since my board was light on hate - but I dont' think I really had room for more hate, so I just needed to dodge this one...oh well.

    Games 4-3
    Rounds 2-1


    Round 4 Vs ANT:

    So I sit across from this 13 year old kid with Tezz on his sleeves...I figure I'm playing against affinity. We have a quick conversation about how we are both 2-1 as I win the dice roll. I hit a t1 discard spell and see: Grim Tutor, Burning Wish, LED, Gemstone Mine, City of Brass, and a couple of other cards. My head spins for a minute as I go through the logic of this 13 year old being 2-1 with ANT at a major event. Fortunately I had played against and beat Bryant Cook earlier in the week, so I knew I had a pretty good gameplan. Throughout the rest of game 1 my discard kept coming and I set up my Stoneforge into batterskull for a pretty easy win.

    Sideboard plan:
    -4 Swords to Plowshares
    -1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Ghostly Prison
    1 Ethersworn Cannonist
    1 Runed Halo

    So, on the play, this kid empties his hand and blows up 12 goblins on his turn 3 (I didn't see early discard) - I only have Bob on the table. On my turn 3 I hit stoneforge off of Bob and proceed to get batterskull. I block 2 tokens on his turn 4 and go to 8. I play revoker (to chump) and put batterskull into play on his turn - block 2 guys, take 8 and gain 4 from batterskull. I draw stoneforge, play it, get SoFI - he scoops. Basically, I had very few outs against 12 tokens that early...but I hit one.

    Games 6-3
    Rounds 3-1


    Round 4 vs. NO Bant/Show and Tell

    This guy had maindeck show and tell and NO - I'm not completely shure about his list. Both times he tried to show and Tell (in 2 games) I had Metamorph in hand and just blew him out. I think his deck was pretty light on disruption to make room for all of the combo pieces. There isn't much to talk about with this matchup.

    Games 8-3
    Rounds 4-1


    Round 5 vs. Blue Zoo

    Game 1 he sees 3 non-land spells - when we ended the game he showed me a hand of 5 land. I win, but I only see a bunch of non-basic land and really don't know what he's playing. I think it's Blue zoo, but it didn't make sense for that deck to hit that much land. I did a minor sideboard - I think I swapped Vindicates and Metamorph for Perish - and take my chances in game 2.

    Game 2 I see a T1 Kird Ape into Turn 2 Lavamancer. I have the removal for the Lavamancer, but my deck is too threat light for bolts and swords and and I have the wrong removal (perish) to deal with red dudes. Not much to say about this game. At one point it was 25-1 and he was going to scoop to me (I was at 1 lol) because I had board position with a batterskull, Finkle (tapped, to attack with), and a 2-counter Jitte on the board (he just had double tin-street hooligans). He drew a brainstorm into bolt and some other stuff and got there.

    The Real Sideboard plan:
    -2 Vindicate
    -1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    -1 Bitterblossom
    -3 Thoughtseize
    3 Path to Exile
    2 Perish
    1 Enlightened tutor
    1 Ghostly Prison

    Game 3, I did an early E-tutor for Ghostly Prison and it was Extremely Irrellevent...lol. Fortunately I had a ton of removal for his threats and just got there. Finkle was awesome this game - there was a lot of shrugging and "I can't block him" going on.

    Games: 9-4
    Rounds: 5-1


    Last round I draw in with another esperblade player...turns out he's the only guy that didn't want to split the top-8 prizes....Grrr... 5-1-1

    First round of Top 8 I'm up against a guy that I see quite a bit (the only guy in the Top-8 that I know) and he's playing Bant (with no NO and no Batterskull). It's a neat list, very resilient, and he's a good player. I'm tired as hell and don't shuffle my deck properly, don't mulligan aggressively enough, and make a bunch of play mistakes - reporting on this would be a disservice to the deck (I saw about 20 lands in 2 games in a deck that has 21). Let's just say "I lost". lol.

    Overall I was very happy with the deck. Wasteland was useless all day though...and I could have used another Tundra, and maybe another Delta. I need to re-examine a couple of sideboard spots and tune up some of the maindeck numbers, but generally I like where it's at. I definately prefer the discard to daze and FoW.
    Last edited by bokwinkle; 07-26-2011 at 10:39 AM.
    Team Disqualified Poster - Because not everyone gets to be astronauts when the grow up.

    Original Poster to the Deadguy Ale thread when Jitte was suggested:
    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    What? Is this the magicthegathering.com message boards? What would you take out for it? More importantly, what 10 creatures would you put in? This isn't the proper archetype for equipment of any kind-it's resource denial. This format is Legacy-for the most part, equipment is too slow.

  8. #48
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    I decided that I needed to be the control deck and I figured he'd blindly side into Show and Tell (like so many reanimator pilots do) so I thought my Metamorphs would probaby get there. The next 2 games I proceeded to hit all of my hate and Metamorph off of Show and Tell landed at least twice...maybe even 3 times.
    Just to make this clear: Metamorph brought into play from SnT won't copy their SnT'ed creature. You need to play the Metamorph from your hand afterwards, or you have to copy sth that has been on the battlefield previously.
    I find this to be a pretty common misconception.


    Otherwise: 4 Shadowmages? I do like Finkel, but I feel like he's a little bit too slow?
    Last edited by fallenphoenix; 07-26-2011 at 08:03 AM.
    "Blue-Eyes White Dragon is a fatty that Jamie Wakefield seems to have overlooked. It has a tremendous power and toughness of 3000/2500, making it bigger than current threats such as Tarmogoyf or Mountain."

  9. #49
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    see, that's interesting about show and tell, because that is what I thought initially - but some other people told me I was wrong and I decided to play it in the tourney, with the thought that i could at least cast the metamorph after SNT resolved. However, when I got into the tournement there was a judge call (head judge) that reversed that. I've done some research and everything I've found supports your information, but now that I've had a judge rule the otherway I want to look into it some more.

    And yes, 4 Finkle. He was awesome all day. He's just as slow as SFM or bob once he's equiped. He's there for card advantage and a body to equip to, and he fills both of those rolls very nicely.
    Team Disqualified Poster - Because not everyone gets to be astronauts when the grow up.

    Original Poster to the Deadguy Ale thread when Jitte was suggested:
    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    What? Is this the magicthegathering.com message boards? What would you take out for it? More importantly, what 10 creatures would you put in? This isn't the proper archetype for equipment of any kind-it's resource denial. This format is Legacy-for the most part, equipment is too slow.

  10. #50
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Quote Originally Posted by bokwinkle View Post
    However, when I got into the tournement there was a judge call (head judge) that reversed that.
    It goes to show even judges can err.
    Here's some backup so you don't have to rely on my sole judgement. ;)

    And yes, 4 Finkle. He was awesome all day. He's just as slow as SFM or bob once he's equiped. He's there for card advantage and a body to equip to, and he fills both of those rolls very nicely.
    I prefer my 3-drops to make a more imminent impression. I'm running a mix of Clique and Crusader for that part, leaning more and more towards the latter.
    You might win the game after Finkel hits several times, but the same amount of hits from Crusader and theyare probably done for.
    Crusader is also not as awful on defense as Finkel is (in fact, he is 'teh nutz' there, if I may say so).


    Quote Originally Posted by Kellyx
    How come nobody tryes 4 stalker+sfm with stifle/4 wasteland and 2 jaces?
    It will be a team america but with good match up vs agro, burn, merfolks cuz of batterskull.And these decks are the only reason TA isnt played atm.
    I was going to comment on this, but then you seemed to have thought better and deleted your post. Just stating that most of the cards you mentioned are really anti-synergistic.
    "Blue-Eyes White Dragon is a fatty that Jamie Wakefield seems to have overlooked. It has a tremendous power and toughness of 3000/2500, making it bigger than current threats such as Tarmogoyf or Mountain."

  11. #51
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    The problem I have with crusader is that he can block fine, but but his protections offer no resiliency to any of the format removal. If I wanted protections on creatures I'd probably be more prone to use stillmoon Cavalier. I find that I have no issue controlling the board (4 maindeck swords, 3 sideboard paths+other) from creatures anyway so blocking is rarely required. Plus with up to 7 tutor effects, 4 equipment, and so much draw I rarely have difficulty finding a way to make my dudes big(er).

    I do like the evasion, power, and ability of Clique (especially combined with discard), but I'm not going to try for double blue in my build.
    Team Disqualified Poster - Because not everyone gets to be astronauts when the grow up.

    Original Poster to the Deadguy Ale thread when Jitte was suggested:
    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    What? Is this the magicthegathering.com message boards? What would you take out for it? More importantly, what 10 creatures would you put in? This isn't the proper archetype for equipment of any kind-it's resource denial. This format is Legacy-for the most part, equipment is too slow.

  12. #52
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    I can definitely see the point regarding the manacosts of Clique, I am running a W/U base with a black splash (Confidant, Thoughtseize) though, so that mostly works just fine. I could see Clique not making the cut if I decided to add some more black.

    Regarding the protection issue: Bolt and StoP are killing Crusader as if it were good old Grizzly Bears, but for those issues you still have discard, Mental Misstep and, in my list, Mother of Runes.
    Pro:Black is not irrelevant against black removal, but Pro:Green combined with doublestriking power really stops any Goyf- and/or Knight-decks. Crusader with Jitte kills in two swings and that is pretty easily assembled, considering you have a bunch of tutors for equipment. Also, unlike NO/Prog, none of the "combo"-parts are bad on their own.

    And that's what really puts Crusader way beyond anything Stillmoon Cavalier or Paladin en-Vec could ever accomplish.
    "Blue-Eyes White Dragon is a fatty that Jamie Wakefield seems to have overlooked. It has a tremendous power and toughness of 3000/2500, making it bigger than current threats such as Tarmogoyf or Mountain."

  13. #53
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    I guess I just disagree. The problem I have with crusader is that he's good....with equipment...bitterblossom tokens are good with equipment. It's not the creature that's getting there, it's the equipment.

    I still think that in a removal heavy deck Finkle gets the nod. Where Crusader can work his way through green creatures Finkle works his way through damn near all creatures. No chumps by stoneforge mystics, kird apes, lavamancers, etc...just swings for cards and damage. What I like about Finkle is that I don't have to get the (comparitively) slow Jitte - I can go get F&F or SoFI to make the game a blow out. Jitte, for me, really isn't how I finish a game - it's a control piece. Jitte deals with little creatures, gets me needed life, kills an enemy Jitte, or is used to get through a troublesome stalemate - it's rarely getting into the red zone - and I rarely need it because I have Batterskull for lilfe, Finkle for stalemates, and tons of removal for everything else. Jitte, for me, is a last ditch effort.

    Ultimately it depends on how you look at your 3 drop. Personally, I don't think there aren't many non-green 3 drops out there than can really be considered true finishers right now (although Clique and Serendib Efreet are on the list of potentials) because of the prevelance of green in the meta....including Crusader. So if it's not a finisher then it's filling some other role - for me that role is card advantage. Generally, we are running 6-8 finishers anyway in the form of a stoneforge package so, unless you're looking for an alternate win-con, another finisher isn't really needed anyway. This is why I bring up Stillmoon - it's not a finisher (not by my standards anyway) but it's a very versatile creature that helps break stalemates and has greater resiliance than the other choices in the format. If I wasn't playing a 3-color deck, I would actually probably consider Stromgald Crusader over any of the cards we've been discussing.

    All of that being said, if Zoo becomes a real issue then I'll probably push finkle away in favor of Serendib Efreet.
    Last edited by bokwinkle; 07-26-2011 at 12:53 PM.
    Team Disqualified Poster - Because not everyone gets to be astronauts when the grow up.

    Original Poster to the Deadguy Ale thread when Jitte was suggested:
    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    What? Is this the magicthegathering.com message boards? What would you take out for it? More importantly, what 10 creatures would you put in? This isn't the proper archetype for equipment of any kind-it's resource denial. This format is Legacy-for the most part, equipment is too slow.

  14. #54
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Ultimately it depends on how you look at your 3 drop. Personally, I don't think there are many non-green 3 drops out there than can really be considered true finishers right now (although Clique and Serendib Efreet are on the list of potentials) because of the prevelance of green in the meta....including Crusader. So if it's not a finisher [...]
    I consider Crusader to be a finisher, a huge roadblock and a breaker of stalemates, especially vs green decks. You already stated it, he is good with equipment, but unlike Bitterblossom, Squadron Hawk or Spellstutter Sprite he is a real threat all by himself against most decks.

    Creatures I find useful generally fall into one of three categories:
    (1) - Cardadvantage (Bob, SFM, these really speak for themselves)
    (2) - Protection/Disruption (Mom, Sculler, Clique, Kitchen Finks, Shriekmaw, stuff that disrupts them or protects my gameplan, whoever is the agressor)
    (3) - Beatsticks (BFGs like Goyf, Tombstalker, Knight [who also falls into (1) and (2)] etc...)

    With equipment and a reliable way to tutor for them you generally don't need as much guys from (3), but I generally find that once the equipment plan falls short, (due to your opponent being prepared, your deck not delivering etc...) it's not a bad idea to have some sort of backup.
    Crusader has some insane synergy with your plan A but also packs a punch should all else fail and even holds the ground against multiple creatures most of the time.

    What I like about Finkle is that I don't have to get the (comparitively) slow Jitte - I can go get F&F or SoFI to make the game a blow out.
    What I like about Mirran Crusader is that I don't have to get the (comparitively) slow Jitte - I can go get F&F or SoFI to make the game a blow out. :)

    Seriously, any of the most powerful equipments on a doublestriking creature can be considered 'good game' most of the time, more so than on any other creature.
    Regarding SoFI on Crusader compared to Finkel: both draw you 2 cards but one of them deals 8+2+2, the other one 3+2 damage. Protection from 4 colours > protection from 2 colours, I'd say.
    SoFF is a little worse on Crusader but I find that sword to be pretty bad anyway, It's mostly there for the Pro:Green part if you need that (and without Crusader you will).


    I would actually probably consider Stromgald Crusader over any of the cards we've been discussing.
    Phyrexian Crusader seems much better than that, I'd say, despite having Infect.

    I might try Finkel instead of Clique during testing, but Mirran Crusader overperformed so much in fact, that I wouldn't consider running less than 3 in almost any given field.


    /edit: That said, I am running a completely different deck than you, with less of a toolbox and more streamlined beatdown /w disruption, so playstyle may be an issue.
    "Blue-Eyes White Dragon is a fatty that Jamie Wakefield seems to have overlooked. It has a tremendous power and toughness of 3000/2500, making it bigger than current threats such as Tarmogoyf or Mountain."

  15. #55
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Quote Originally Posted by fallenphoenix View Post
    I consider Crusader to be a finisher, a huge roadblock and a breaker of stalemates, especially vs green decks. You already stated it, he is good with equipment, but unlike Bitterblossom, Squadron Hawk or Spellstutter Sprite he is a real threat all by himself against most decks.

    Creatures I find useful generally fall into one of three categories:
    (1) - Cardadvantage (Bob, SFM, these really speak for themselves)
    (2) - Protection/Disruption (Mom, Sculler, Clique, Kitchen Finks, Shriekmaw, stuff that disrupts them or protects my gameplan, whoever is the agressor)
    (3) - Beatsticks (BFGs like Goyf, Tombstalker, Knight [who also falls into (1) and (2)] etc...)

    With equipment and a reliable way to tutor for them you generally don't need as much guys from (3), but I generally find that once the equipment plan falls short, (due to your opponent being prepared, your deck not delivering etc...) it's not a bad idea to have some sort of backup.
    Crusader has some insane synergy with your plan A but also packs a punch should all else fail and even holds the ground against multiple creatures most of the time.
    I generally agree with all of that, but if I'm looking for a finisher, I just want something a bit more resilient to removal - that way I dont' have to run stuff like Mother of Runes. This is again why I'm pointing to stuff like Serendib Efreet and Stillmoon Cavalier - a little more resliency to the removal in the format.

    Quote Originally Posted by fallenphoenix View Post
    What I like about Mirran Crusader is that I don't have to get the (comparitively) slow Jitte - I can go get F&F or SoFI to make the game a blow out. :)

    Seriously, any of the most powerful equipments on a doublestriking creature can be considered 'good game' most of the time, more so than on any other creature.
    Regarding SoFI on Crusader compared to Finkel: both draw you 2 cards but one of them deals 8+2+2, the other one 3+2 damage. Protection from 4 colours > protection from 2 colours, I'd say.
    SoFF is a little worse on Crusader but I find that sword to be pretty bad anyway, It's mostly there for the Pro:Green part if you need that (and without Crusader you will).
    Yes and no. The 4 protections don't include white. You may be able to break stalemates by getting around most creatures, but you're still prone to a swords off the top or a chump block by the ever-present stoneforge mystic.

    Quote Originally Posted by fallenphoenix View Post
    Phyrexian Crusader seems much better than that (Stromgald Crusader), I'd say, despite having Infect.
    Potentially, yes, depending on how things played out. But Pro-White is definately the most relevant of the protections here...and that is my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by fallenphoenix View Post
    I might try Finkel instead of Clique during testing, but Mirran Crusader overperformed so much in fact, that I wouldn't consider running less than 3 in almost any given field.

    /edit: That said, I am running a completely different deck than you, with less of a toolbox and more streamlined beatdown /w disruption, so playstyle may be an issue.
    Well, mana's an issue too. Coming up with double white isn't something I'm ready to commit to - generally I think I get there, but I just haven't tried it to this point.

    I think the deck differences are definately coming to play here a bit. I think you're leaving a few more threats on the field and playing through them...whereas I'm dealing with the threats and then cleaning up. I think this playstyle has a lot to do with discard vs countermagic. I like to drain people's hand, establish board control and ride the back of card advantage to a win. If I had to sit back with countermagic while trying to establish board control I'm not sure I'd be successful - despite the power level of the deck or how well it may be constructed...I'd probably counter a lot of stuff that I wouldn't need to and I'd end up getting blown out by something that I should have been saving a counter for.
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    Original Poster to the Deadguy Ale thread when Jitte was suggested:
    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown View Post
    What? Is this the magicthegathering.com message boards? What would you take out for it? More importantly, what 10 creatures would you put in? This isn't the proper archetype for equipment of any kind-it's resource denial. This format is Legacy-for the most part, equipment is too slow.

  16. #56
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    I got some testing in vs Zoo, Reanimator and SnT/NO.
    My list for these games was the following:

    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Dark Confidants
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    2 Mirran Crusader
    1 Shadowmage Infiltrator

    2 Diabolic Edict
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Feast and Famine

    4 Mental Misstep
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Inquisition of Kozilek
    3 Daze

    4 Brainstorm
    2 Jace, the Mindsculptor

    3 Tundra
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Plains
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Marsh Flats
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Karakas
    4 Mishra's Factory

    (SoFF should've been SoFI)


    The games vs Reanimator and and SnT/NO were pretty onesided and due to the nature of the matchup pretty short. The draws of my opponents seemed to be sub-par and just couldn't stand up to mine, this might just be the impression of a good matchup, but I think at least some of their draws could have been a little better.

    Vs Reanimator I went 3:0, MVPs apart from the obvious ones (Discard, MMS, Edicts...) were (Stoneforge Mystic into...) Jitte and Crusader, giving me really decent racing capabilities. Finkel was also good, drawing me into some neat stuff.

    Vs SnT/NO I went 4:0 and again, Jitte and Crusader went a long way, Crusader racing through Progenitus and Jitte killing a bush of Birds, Hierarchs and Dryad Arbors to prevent NO or enable Edict.


    The games vs Zoo were the most interesting ones, of which we played a total of 7 or 8, 2 of which I lost.
    One of these he was of for a fast start and I kept a prettz shaky hand that just could put up a reasonable resistance in time.
    The other one I had the choice of playing a safer albeit slower rout of fatesealing him with Jace when I was on four life , or brainstorm which I ended up doing.
    I brainstormed into Crusader, Mystic and a fetchland, which I cracked to play both of them and shmsh for the win next turn, but he (ofc) ripped the bolt like a champ (I new his hand was all blanks) :)

    The other ones were often pretty much dominated by early Mother of Runes, protected by Daze and MMS, which then protected my business creatures until they generated enough advantage to take over the game.
    Other games just played out like regular Jace-control-decks, removal into counter into removal and Jace on an empty board seals the deal.
    He did have a number of answers to Jitte MD (own Jitte, Metamorph, Pridemages) so he wasn't just cold to it but it was still by far the best equipment and one of the best cards to see. And as you could've guessed, Mirran Crusader was just plain awesome against a deck full of green guys.

    In 3 of all those games I actually got the "nut"-draw of turn 1 Mother, t2 Mystic (fetching Jitte), t3 Crusader and t4 sealing the game by attacking my hapless opponent with a Jitte-equipped Crusader, essentially sealing the game.
    I guess there are draws that stop those shenanigans, but not very many as it's pretty resilient to many draws that just feature one or two removal spells, especially if you throw in one or two free counters.

    Overall I'm pretty content with the list, I'd love to squeeze in a Clique and an additional Crusader for the Shadowmage and something else. 4th Mystic is also an option, but drawing one ist often enough and you don't always want one on t2 as much as you want Confidant.

    Any comments and suggestions are very welcome.
    "Blue-Eyes White Dragon is a fatty that Jamie Wakefield seems to have overlooked. It has a tremendous power and toughness of 3000/2500, making it bigger than current threats such as Tarmogoyf or Mountain."

  17. #57
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Quote Originally Posted by fallenphoenix View Post
    I got some testing in vs Zoo, Reanimator and SnT/NO.
    My list for these games was the following:


    4 Dark Confidants
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Vendillion Clique

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Feast and Famine
    1 Batterskull

    4 Force
    4 Mental Misstep
    3 Daze


    4 Brainstorm
    3 Jace, the Mindsculptor

    3 Tundra
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Scrubland
    1 Plains
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    3 Flooded Strand
    3 Marsh Flats
    2 Polluted Delta
    1 Karakas
    4 Mishra's Factory

    SB:
    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Perish
    3 Angels Grace
    3 Submerge
    3 Path



    The games vs Reanimator and and SnT/NO were pretty onesided and due to the nature of the matchup pretty short. The draws of my opponents seemed to be sub-par and just couldn't stand up to mine, this might just be the impression of a good matchup, but I think at least some of their draws could have been a little better.

    Vs Reanimator I went 3:0, MVPs apart from the obvious ones (Discard, MMS, Edicts...) were (Stoneforge Mystic into...) Jitte and Crusader, giving me really decent racing capabilities. Finkel was also good, drawing me into some neat stuff.

    Vs SnT/NO I went 4:0 and again, Jitte and Crusader went a long way, Crusader racing through Progenitus and Jitte killing a bush of Birds, Hierarchs and Dryad Arbors to prevent NO or enable Edict.


    The games vs Zoo were the most interesting ones, of which we played a total of 7 or 8, 2 of which I lost.
    One of these he was of for a fast start and I kept a prettz shaky hand that just could put up a reasonable resistance in time.
    The other one I had the choice of playing a safer albeit slower rout of fatesealing him with Jace when I was on four life , or brainstorm which I ended up doing.
    I brainstormed into Crusader, Mystic and a fetchland, which I cracked to play both of them and shmsh for the win next turn, but he (ofc) ripped the bolt like a champ (I new his hand was all blanks) :)

    The other ones were often pretty much dominated by early Mother of Runes, protected by Daze and MMS, which then protected my business creatures until they generated enough advantage to take over the game.
    Other games just played out like regular Jace-control-decks, removal into counter into removal and Jace on an empty board seals the deal.
    He did have a number of answers to Jitte MD (own Jitte, Metamorph, Pridemages) so he wasn't just cold to it but it was still by far the best equipment and one of the best cards to see. And as you could've guessed, Mirran Crusader was just plain awesome against a deck full of green guys.

    In 3 of all those games I actually got the "nut"-draw of turn 1 Mother, t2 Mystic (fetching Jitte), t3 Crusader and t4 sealing the game by attacking my hapless opponent with a Jitte-equipped Crusader, essentially sealing the game.
    I guess there are draws that stop those shenanigans, but not very many as it's pretty resilient to many draws that just feature one or two removal spells, especially if you throw in one or two free counters.

    Overall I'm pretty content with the list, I'd love to squeeze in a Clique and an additional Crusader for the Shadowmage and something else. 4th Mystic is also an option, but drawing one ist often enough and you don't always want one on t2 as much as you want Confidant.

    Any comments and suggestions are very welcome.
    Changes in bold - I left 2 slots open for your meta preference ( I would like 3 thoughtseizes myself), but this is what I would start with as an Esper shell. You want to max out on the most powerful cards that create advantage and disrupt your opponent as efficiently as possible - this means a heavier blue component.

    Mom simply does not pull her weight in any deck that isn't more focused on beatdown such as GW maverick. Yes, she protects your creatures that do work, but so does your disruption except it isn't dependent on a threat to be viable. Crusader is just to narrow maindeck. I would rather have Perish and Submerge in my side board if I really wanted to hate - see the board below.

    Oh, btw you can't play SFM without Batterskull.

    The sideboard is what I would bring to an SCG open right now with Hive mind NO Rug, Merfolk, Zoo, and Stoneblade being the decks to beat.

    Other considerations include Thoughtseize, Bitterblossom, Elsepth
    Calls for banning are almost always the scrubs way out. Real men view a challenge as something to overcome, a puzzle to solve, an opportunity to be had, and the source of evolution.

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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    Needless to say that I disagree with most of the points you state/changes you made, but to each his own.

    For example, splitting Swords/Edicts has been done for a good reason.
    And while cutting FoW hurts a little, cutting the discard down to zero is just awful.

    Oh, btw you can't play SFM without Batterskull.
    Well, yes you can. In a more creature-centric deck Jitte#2 is just a lot better than Batterskull, imho.

    Also, if you're running Mom you will often find that she is enough of a roadblock that you don't have the need for Batterskull, ever.


    Crusader is just to narrow maindeck
    Have you even tested the card? :)
    "Blue-Eyes White Dragon is a fatty that Jamie Wakefield seems to have overlooked. It has a tremendous power and toughness of 3000/2500, making it bigger than current threats such as Tarmogoyf or Mountain."

  19. #59
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    What do people think about this list:

    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=47359

    In my testing it has been incredibly resilient and powerful. Stifle still kicks people in the face when they're not looking, and tombstalker simply ends games. I am firmly still under the belief that a turn 1 stifle followed by a turn 2 hymn usually ends a game. Especially with a daze backup. I understand that bob really is that good if he sticks around but.. so is a 5/5 flyer. I would possibly like to fit a jace or two into the deck but I can't manage to make room at this point for anything.

    I've also considered attempting to add vindicates to the MD and swapping the sword in the list with a feast and famine - other than that, its simply crippling.
    Quote Originally Posted by emidln View Post
    If you have 3 mana and 2 draws and can't win through bullshit permanents, you are mentally deficient and probably want to examine a game with less thought. I recommend Lawn Darts.

  20. #60
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    Re: UWb Esperblade

    What do people think about this list:

    http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=47359

    In my testing it has been incredibly resilient and powerful. Stifle still kicks people in the face when they're not looking, and tombstalker simply ends games. I am firmly still under the belief that a turn 1 stifle followed by a turn 2 hymn usually ends a game. Especially with a daze backup. I understand that bob really is that good if he sticks around but.. so is a 5/5 flyer. I would possibly like to fit a jace or two into the deck but I can't manage to make room at this point for anything.

    I've also considered attempting to add vindicates to the MD and swapping the sword in the list with a feast and famine - other than that, its simply crippling.
    Quote Originally Posted by emidln View Post
    If you have 3 mana and 2 draws and can't win through bullshit permanents, you are mentally deficient and probably want to examine a game with less thought. I recommend Lawn Darts.

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