[Deck] Zenith-Rebirth Order (ZeRo) — Flashless Hulk Combo

[PollePotDK]

@Xantid Swarms: I didn't know that you could still copy Hulk with Body Double. Thought it was a targetting ability. Thx for the heads up :-)

I'm not looking to tune my deck versus the enchantress. It's not the way to do it, as you said, it doesn't work if taking it to a tournament.

@TheShaun: My friend DO play Ground Seal in MD, so somebody does. Again, it's not a bad choice, as many deck use the graveyard.

One Hymn or Thoughtseize as disruption or a counterspell doesn't stop this deck. You topdeckmode is usually insane. That's my experience. Against blue decks, just GSZ for 1. They figure - ohh, he wants a Bird, OK. But you pick up a Xantid Swarm. I love playing against blue decks. Rather that, than black disruption.

@Dresden: I usually play the Bird, but it dependents on the other cards in hand and the opponent. GSZ for Dryad comes in second. I like to know the deck I'm playing against, before casting Cabal Theraphy.

Played a 18 (if I remember correctly) person tournament yesterday and came in in second place:

Match 1: Junk (1-1 draw) - win game 1 in turn 3 :-), punts the second game. Didn't get Progenitus and comboed out instead, but met a Extirpate. Would have won with Progenitus. Sad face.
Match 2: Zombies (yes zombies) (2-1): Nothing exciting to point out here.
Match 3: Reanimator (2-0): He drew like shit, I didn't :-)
Match 4: Solution 2012 (or something UWB deck) (2-1): he Surgical Extract Protean Hulk instead of Reveillark/Body Double, as he get's the combo wrong - Combo continues FTW.

For now I have participated in 2 tournaments and went 3-1 and 3-0-1 (6-1-1), which is a nice record.

[Xantid Swarm]

Q for you guys, what's the most typical T1 play if you don't know what your playing against if you have GSZ, Bird, Therapy (no probe)? Does this change if you have 1 fetch vs 2+ lands?

Assuming I am on the play against an unknow opponent with those cards in hand, I'll play Bird turn 1. Always play Birds before GSZ cause it's better to keep option with Zenith. I wait to have more informations on opponent before playing Therapy.

If I have only 1 fetch, I'll fetch Basic Forest to avoid Probe + Wasteland. If I have 2 or more lands, I'll probably fetch a Bayou with this hand.

Also, I've been trying a sb of +3 leyline of sanctity (-2 Sylvan, -1 Pact) instead to shore up against TA, Painted Stone, Burn, I think it's been more useful than having the extra sylvan libraries? I guess it makes the U/W control or U/W blade matchup more even, what do you think? Also trying +1 pact, -1 shaman since I've needed the extra sac outlet more so than fauna's ability. Btw just checking - we have 0 outs against humility pre or post-board, right?

Leyline of Sanctity is not that great against TA, I'm not sure they have enough discard to justify it. I realy think Library is better against them as it is always good, even when they don't draw Hymn to Tourach. That said, Leyline of Sanctity is also good against storm combo decks. I bring Library against control decks like Stoneblade and any deck playing Hymn to Tourach. Leyline is good against BW, Burn and some combo decks. So it's a meta call I think.

Playing 1 Pact main is probably a good idea, I would like to do it if there is more place in the deck... I just do not want to remove Fauna Shaman from my build. But you can be right.

I do not think that 0 out to Humility is so bad considering how few play the card actualy saw (and you can still win by attacking under it). That said, if Humility is present in your meta, you can play some Krosan Grip or Beast Within (as suggested by death) in your side.

[f|i[p]]

Has anyone tested this vs BUG?

The problems I have with the deck are quite simple... creature removal and wasteland...
I am wondering if I should even run a basic swamp in here..

but other than that it has been very powerful...

[Dresden]

Hrm, I've been playtesting both vs BUG and U/W Control/Stoneblade, and both are tough, Ancestral vision and wasteland = ouch, UW seems a bit worse though simply b/c it doesn't have diabolic edict (i.e. progenitus plan is ok), has more counters, and has stp. Q - for those running the new SB with city of solitude instead of xantid swarm, how's that working out vs stoneblade/uw control? It seems that if the game stretches long enough that we actually use city of solitude, we lose?

On pg6, Against U Control decks:
+4 Carpet of Flowers
+2 Xantid Swarm
+2 Sylvan Library
+1 Qasali Pridemage
-1 Birds of Paradise
-2 Ancient Tomb
-1 Phyrexian Tower
-1 Protean Hulk
-1 Carrion Feeder
-1 Academy Rector
-2 Gitaxian Probe

With new sb, Against U Control decks:
+4 Carpet of Flowers
+3 City of Solitude
+2 Sylvan Library
+1 Qasali Pridemage
-1 Birds of Paradise
-2 Ancient Tomb
-1 Phyrexian Tower
-1 Protean Hulk
-1 Carrion Feeder
-1 Academy Rector
-1 Fauna Shaman
-2 Gitaxian Probe

Is that right? I think the matchup isn't much better post-board since they can bring in extra oblivion ring, force of will, path to exile..

[Chiuks]

I have a question: in the strategy section describes how to bypass removal, through the academic rector.
Rector get you a Pattern of Rebirth on a creature, but the opponent can remove the creature with for exaple lightningbolt before it is enchanted?

[Dresden]

Get Rector + 2 sac outlets, i.e. viscera seer and carrion feeder as well as all the dryad arbors. Then, if they cast removal in response to the trigger, just put pattern on whatever creature you want after bolt resolves.

[Xantid Swarm]

I just came back from Legacy side-event at GP Montreal playing once again Hulk Rebirth. This is my little tournament report:

So we was 32 players, so five swiss rounds + Top 8.

Round 1 - Jamie, playing Merfolk

Game 1, an early game Probe show me that he have a Force of Will in hand. I tried a GSZ x=1 on turn 2 or 3 and he choose to let it resolve. Zenith got me a Xantid Swarm and I combo out few time later with my opponent still holding is now useless FoW.

Game 2, a Cabal Therapy reveal that he has 2 Lord of Atlantis + other fish in hand. I flashbacked Therpay to get rid of both Lords and then played a Tinder Wall + a Wall of Roots. I was then able to block all his fish during few turns, searching for my kill. I latter resolved a City of Solitude, just before he draw a Force of Will. So I was able to combo out (via an hardcasted Hulk if I remeber correct) despite the fact that again, he hold FoW.

1-0

Round 2 - Robin, playing BUG Vision Control

This was an really epic match. Game 1 he completly crushed me as he killed every creatures I put into play, countered a lot of spells I tried to cast, and won with help of Jace TMS (with a Pernicious Deed on the field, just in case...).

Game 2, after a few exchanges of me playing creatures and him playing removal and counterspells, I finaly resolved a City of Solitude that stuck into play. I then played a Carpet of Flower that give me access to a monstruous amount of mana - but this was a mistake as I did not have a way to combo out in hand at that time so I was exposing myself to a deadly Deed... He then played Deed and, with 1 mana up, choose to not destroy my Carpet as he wanted to kill my City in the same time. Luckyly, I proceed to win with my top deck, before he got the chance to untap and destroy my board.

Game 3 was completly crazy. Early game, he blow a couple of my creatures with removal (including a 2-for-1 via Perish) and put a Pernicious Deed into play. At that point, I'm sure he feeled confident. I then casted a Carpet of Flowers and used it to get blue mana, hardcasting a Body Double to copy my Qasali Pridemage that was then into my grave, and blow his deed before he can use it. I then managed to get a City of Solitude into play. At this point, I was having all my Pattern of Rebirth in my hand and just needed a sac outlet to get there. The problem is that he beated me with three Mishra's Factory and get my life total to 2, and got a Jace TMS into play to featseal me each turn. As he put my top card on the bottom of my library, I drew for my last hope and got the Cabal Therapy I needed. I got an Hulk into play and sac it thinking I just won, but I then realised that my Body Double was in the grave, so I grab Reveillark + Carrion Feeder, got back a lot of blocker, growth my Feeder to huge proportion and say go, because I have no way to get my Mogg Fanatic.

On his turn, he bounce my Body Double (copying Reveillark) and cast the Perish that he just drawed. That leaved me with a 1000/1000 Carrion Feeder as my only creature. At that point, he just have 2 untaped land. He could activate 1 Mishra's Factory for the win (I was still at 2 life), but he forgot the fact that Carrion Feeder can't block. So he pass the turn and I kill him with my big Feeder (thanks to City of Solitude, he can't activate his Factories for chump blocking).

After the match I realised that I misplayed as I could have won without saying go the turn I got my combo: Hulk could have got me 2 Tinder Walls, Wild Cantor, Feeder and Fanatic, and I could have casted one of the Pattern in my hand to get Reveillark. Anyway, I was lucky enough to get it, thanks to his misplay (I believe Robin will never forget again that Feeder can't block...)

2-0

Round 3 - Shawn, playing Hive Mind

Game 1, double Cabal Therapy allowed me to get rid of a Show and Tell and a Pact of Negation and I was able to combo out knowing the way is free.

Game 2, I managed to keep an hand that can win at instant speed if he cast a Show and Tell. Knowing my deck, Shawn tried to beat me without cast S&T, but I was able to combo out before he did anything revelant.

Round 4 & 5 - I.D. into top 8

Top 8 - Benjamin, playing MBC with 4 Mental Misstep

Game 1, the first turn was funny as I casted 2 Gitaxian Probe and he casted Misstep both time. I then cast Therapy and got the Hymn to Tourach he was having in hand. He still managed to get my Natural Order with a Duress, and begin beatdown with Dark Confident + another 2/2 creature. I finaly combo out at 2 life!

Game 2 he played a lot of removal, including 1 Perish, and beat me with Gatekeeper + Phyrexian Obliterator beatdown,

Game 3 he removed a few creatures I played, but I was able to get a Pattern of Rebirth on a Dryad Arbor when he was tapped out. On my next turn, I casted a Cabal Therapy, naming Mental Misstep - and he have it. I then cast a GSZ for 1 to get a Tinder Wall and sac it for RR to hardcast the Mogg Fanatic I was having in my hand. I use Fanatic to kill my Dryad Arbor, got Hulk from the Pattern's trigger and sac Hulk with the Therapy now in my grave for a combo kill.

Semi finale - Sebastien, playing NO RUG

Game 1 - He mulligan to 6 and I got an hand with 2 Cabal Therapy. My second Therapy got 2 Force of Will in his hand - it was a blow-out.

Game 2 - Another blowout as I got 2 Submerge in his hand with a single Therapy. The only counter that he drew was a Daze: not enough to stop me.

So I got to the final. The other top 8 matches took so long (in fact particularly 1 match) and it was so late at that time that we decided to split the final without playing.

My efforts worth me a nice foil Dark Confident + a cash prize.

Now, to anwser the last questions:

I have a question: in the strategy section describes how to bypass removal, through the academic rector.
Rector get you a Pattern of Rebirth on a creature, but the opponent can remove the creature with for exaple lightningbolt before it is enchanted?

Pattern go directly into play, attached to a creature you choose. Opponent do not get the priority at all during the time you resolve the Rector's trigger.

@ Dresden: I'm agree that BUG is an hard matchup, but UW Stoneblade is favorable in my opinion. Your sideboarding seem ok, I do almost the same, except for little differences.

[Chiuks]

good result, even today I have done well in a smal tournament final ..... the only game that I lost was with melfork, rector in play and he had Relic ready to remove the rector before this could take the pattern of victory , I could do some play around that hate?

[Rafa]

good result, even today I have done well in a smal tournament final ..... the only game that I lost was with melfork, rector in play and he had Relic ready to remove the rector before this could take the pattern of victory , I could do some play around that hate?

I'm in doubt if he can use his relic in response to your rector's death. Who has the priority then?

[Dresden]

@Xantid: Great report, thanks for sharing! I'll be playing in a local event too and will see what happens :P Can you update with your latest SB plan with 3 city of solitude? Curious to see what you think. And...how do you sideboard against Lands/Loam? It seems to me in this matchup we should try pure combo and race for speed?

Also, what do you guys think about 'summoning trap'? It seems to me the most difficult match-ups IMHO are the ones against control, so I was just thinking if this card is viable. Chances of hitting at least 1 bomb after starting 7 + 1 countered creature, drawing 7 cards with 52 cards remaining (a la summoning trap):
4 bombs in deck: 44.96%
5 bombs: 52.99%
6 bombs: 59.99%

The default deck starts with 2 hulk, 1 rector, 1 progenitus = 4 bombs. Also, hitting wall of roots, viscera seer, carrion feeder, rusalka, or xantid swarm depending on matchup are usually upgrades to a T1 birds of paradise, I think.

[Rafa]

Nice report! The deck is really great!
Here is the current list I'm running, which is being great in my tests!

// Lands - 20
1 [UNH] Forest
1 [UNH] Swamp
2 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
1 [R] Savannah
3 [R] Bayou
3 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [FUT] Dryad Arbor

// Creatures - 22
2 [DIS] Protean Hulk
4 [M11] Birds of Paradise
1 [MOR] Reveillark
1 [M11] Fauna Shaman
1 [10E] Mogg Fanatic
1 [UD] Academy Rector
1 [GP] Wild Cantor
1 [SC] Xantid Swarm
2 [CST] Tinder Wall
1 [ARC] Wall of Roots
1 [PLC] Body Double
1 [TSP] Scryb Ranger
1 [GP] Starved Rusalka
1 [M11] Viscera Seer
1 [SC] Carrion Feeder
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [CFX] Progenitus

// Spells - 19
3 [UD] Pattern of Rebirth
4 [JU] Living Wish
4 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
4 [PT] Natural Order
4 [JU] Cabal Therapy

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOK] Kataki, War's Wage
SB: 1 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
SB: 1 [ARC] Shriekmaw
SB: 1 [WL] Peacekeeper
SB: 1 [UD] Academy Rector
SB: 1 [SC] Xantid Swarm
SB: 1 [CMD] Scavenging Ooze
SB: 3 [FUT] Slaughter Pact
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [TE] Wasteland
SB: 1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
SB: 1 [US] Gaea's Cradle

The md Emrakul is a must IMO because we can always use pattern to play it and that's often gg. It's safer than playing a bubble and waiting to combo out next turn, plus, its triggered graveyard ability is useful plenty of times.
Scryb ranger is great for fixing my mana, to protect my lands, to use Fauna Shaman twice in a turn and to stop blue creatures.
In my deck those card will definitely stay.
My only doubt is regarding living wish in the place of gitaxian probe, thoughtseize or mental misstep. Each one has its pros and cons.
The benefit from LW is that you will get exactly what you need to deal with the most diverse troublesome situations and I'm enjoying having the answer when I need it. At least more than disrupting, getting information/drawing a card and countering... at the moment.

[Rafa]

@Xantid: Great report, thanks for sharing! I'll be playing in a local event too and will see what happens :P Can you update with your latest SB plan with 3 city of solitude? Curious to see what you think. And...how do you sideboard against Lands/Loam? It seems to me in this matchup we should try pure combo and race for speed?

Also, what do you guys think about 'summoning trap'? It seems to me the most difficult match-ups IMHO are the ones against control, so I was just thinking if this card is viable. Chances of hitting at least 1 bomb after starting 7 + 1 countered creature, drawing 7 cards with 52 cards remaining (a la summoning trap):
4 bombs in deck: 44.96%
5 bombs: 52.99%
6 bombs: 59.99%

The default deck starts with 2 hulk, 1 rector, 1 progenitus = 4 bombs. Also, hitting wall of roots, viscera seer, carrion feeder, rusalka, or xantid swarm depending on matchup are usually upgrades to a T1 birds of paradise, I think.

I used to play ST in my other legacy decks. It's so useful and the best part is our opponents "Oh crap" face! With 5 bombs I have more than 50% chance of playing it. It's worth it!
If I happen to play MM/Thoughtseize/Gitaxian Probe instead of Living Wish I'll surely play summoning traps.

[Dresden]

Legacy: Mental Misstep is banned :) Wow guys, time for somebody to take Rebirth all the way!

[Xantid Swarm]

I'm not 100% sure that the banning of Mental Misstep is good for us. We'll have to see how the new metagame will look. I'm not very hapy with the perspective of playing against CB Top and storm combo again... I also generaly prefer to fight against Misstep than against Spell Pierce or Stifle.

That said, the fact that Merfolk (and other blue decks) will not be able to protect their Force of Will from our Therapy is certanly a good thing. Also, having a starting hand with Probe + Therapy and being almost sure that it will get there is cool. And finaly, more Vial decks in the meta is certanly good for us.

For sure, we'll have to reconfigure the sideboard to take in acount the probable return of CB Top and fast combo. I guess that City of Solitude do not look so good now, in comparaison to playing more Xantid Swarm in the side. Perhaps it will be the time to play Krosan Grip, Null Rod, or Leyline of Sanctity again? I would probably give a shot to Beast Within, as death suggested. It can be useful against a variety of decks, including Counterbalance and High Tide (destoying an Island at the right moment can delay them a lot and I doubt they will beat us with a 3/3).

[Dresden]

I think after testing it more that now, after MM ban, this deck cannot win against team america :( TA now packs 3x or 4x stifles, and they certainly didn't decrease any hymns, so I think that matchup is un-winnable due to discard + removal + stifle, and unfortunately likely to be popular.

I've tried several versions of this deck, one with living wish as suggested by Rafa, and another by fitting veteran explorer and switching to more basics, a la nicfit to combat removal. Neither version really helps against team america though, sigh.

[death]

Sylvan Library is great in that match up. I would have to make space for 2 in my sideboard though. Team America will slow roll you but as long as you keep playing lands and mana dudes and a Therapy hits the yard, you can win on the back of a resolved NO/Pattern.

[Xantid Swarm]

Sylvan Library is great in that match up. I would have to make space for 2 in my sideboard though. Team America will slow roll you but as long as you keep playing lands and mana dudes and a Therapy hits the yard, you can win on the back of a resolved NO/Pattern.

+1

TA was and will be a tough matchup but resolving an early Sylvan Library against them is often guaranty win. From that point, you can keep your winning top deck on the top of library to avoid discard while putting mana source into play. Also, in a faster meta, TA will probably switch back from Pernicious Deed to Engenireed Explosive as mass removal of choice (and will use it at x=1 against us), meaning that Sylvan Library will be safe most of the time.

Another card that is very good against TA is Carpet of Flowers, as a single one Carpet often nullify 2-3 Wasteland / Stifle on fetch / removal of mana creatures they did. The fact that they can't Misstep our Carpet anymore is huge.

Sure they can keep Stifle to stop the combo, but remember you can cast NO for Progenitus around Stifle. You can also use Therapy or Xantid Swarm attack to get rid of Stifle.

I played a lot of games against TA, both before and after the printing of Misstep. It never was an easy matchup, it was in fact defavorable in both periods, but it never was impossible to win.

Edit - The Team America MU is the main reason why I'm still undecided about City of Solitude vs Xantid Swarm in the SB for the post-ban meta. More Xantid Swarm bost-board will be awesome against Merfolk (and in general, against Spell Pierce) but Swarm will die from Explosive at 1 and various removal from TA while City will most of the time be impossible to remove for them.

[Dresden]

Hrm, it's the 'keep playing lands and mana dudes' part that often seems to be an issue for me with their removal and wasteland. The standard list we run has 1 forest right? I've had a couple games where I never got to 4 mana due to waste/stifle killing 2 lands, and dismember on birds, hence the main reason I tested replacing birds with veteran explorer and changing the land mix, but the results were mixed.

I have beat TA a few times, but I think the majority of the time we're a dog g1, then be hard-pressed to win the next two. Is your sideboard plan like this (copied from xantid's guide on p6):

Against BUG variant:
+4 Carpet of Flowers
+2 Xantid Swarm
+2 Sylvan Library
+1 Qasali Pridemage
-2 Birds of Paradise
-1 Ancient Tomb
-1 Carrion Feeder
-1 Fauna Shaman
-4 Gitaxian Probe

[Xantid Swarm]

Yup, this look like my exact SB plan against TA.

An active Sylvan Library, if you can afford to pay 4 life, often gave you the opportunity of playing a land AND a mana dude each turn. Mana denial plan cannot follow that pace. Also, as I said, Carpet of Flowers is awesome against any blue mana denial plan - it is often a 2 or 3-for-1 in our favor.

[Rafa]

Well, now that MM is banned, I think more people are gonna play combo again. So, perhaps thoughtseize deserves its spots now.
What do you guys think?