Page 1 of 18 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 360

Thread: [Deck] Zenith-Rebirth Order (ZeRo) — Flashless Hulk Combo

  1. #1

    [Deck] Zenith-Rebirth Order (ZeRo) — Flashless Hulk Combo


    This banner stands for "staying low-key," V. Shusher has been discarded.


    I. Introduction:
    When Flash was unerrata'd at the end of Spring 2007, it was an ominous sign that something crazy was bound to happen. The community witnessed for the first time in the history of Magic, a no turn (turn 0) kill. No one doubted the raw power of Hulk Flash would dominate the format -- to back this up, a hand with any combination of Gemstone Caverns/ESG/SSG, Flash and a Protean Hulk essentially meant a win even on the draw. Just days before Summoner's Pact and Pact of Negation were to become legal, Hulk Flash smashed GP Columbus. Very soon after a ban was on order after Wizards realized they had unleashed an ugly beast.

    Grand Prix Providence – Exactly 4 years later. An ordinary kitchen table player made headlines when his rouge creation won a GP Grinder and then featured in a round against Matt Nass (a Grand Prix winner). Although he didn't make his way to the top, he left behind a blueprint too valuable for the legacy community to ignore. If anyone would ask why this deck is in the Established section, the answer would be because it belongs here. Felix Lapan has tweaked the deck for years and the list he left behind required minor tuning, if anything at all.

    For those interested in the GP Providence list, here's the link as previously published on StarCityGames.com Premium:

    Going Infinite – Analyzing Providence, The Rogue Deck, And Systems

    The only changes made to the above version were: –2 Sylvan Library (+1 Pattern of Rebirth +1 Body Snatcher). Below is the bone stock version,


    Why do I recommend playing this deck?
    • The deck combos faster and more consistently than you expect

    • It is well-placed in today's diverse meta since the banning of MM

    • Resiliency: sidesteps Snares, Flusterstorms, REBs and Needles

    • It's helluva lot of fun to play because of its intricacy & complexity

    • Robust win condition with built-in Plan B against graveyard hate


    Unlike other combo strategies that are weak to blue and red disruption spells, this combo is a completely different animal. Conditional counters don't hit it hard. The only effective tool a blue mage can use against it is Force of Will. That card is outnumbered by the sheer amount of threats this deck have: 4 Natural Order 4 Pattern of Rebirth 4 Green Sun's Zenith and 4 Cabal Therapy. The deck is prepared to beat control decks with maindeck Xantid Swarm which can spell trouble if not dealt with immediately. Unlike combo decks which succumb to Null Rod, Needle effects and Swords to Plowshares, this deck employs 8-9 different cards with essentially the same function.

    Unlike other one-shot combo strategies that require 2-3 specific cards available in order to win, this deck on the other hand needs virtually just 1 card to do the same. Once a sac outlet is available in the form of Carrion Feeder, Viscera Seer, Starved Rusalka, Phyrexian Tower, or a Cabal Therapy in the yard, resolving either a Natural Order, Pattern of Rebirth, or Academy Rector usually means instant win. Plan B (Progenitus) is accessible pre-board for those random maindeck hate you may encounter.

    This deck doesn't run any of the blue cantrips which are prone to Mental Missteps, Spellstutter Sprites, Red Elemental Blasts and Chalices of the Void at 1. The redundancy of threats makes digging unnecessary. Gitaxian Probe is used as bait, if unanswered it will give away information about what cards to name with Cabal Therapy and which spells to play around in order to go off unhindered. (Gitaxian Probe followed by Cabal Therapy will usually tear down a hand). Drawing a card off of it is just an added bonus. The mana acceleration inherent in the deck makes threats easily castable and top decks could end games quickly.


    How To Play This Deck
    You start off with mana acceleration by dropping Birds of Paradise, Tinder Wall/Wild Cantor or GSZ into Dryad Arbor. (They will serve as NO fodder and Pattern of Rebirth targets). Use Cabal Therapy as disruption or GSZ into Xantid Swarm for protection. In cases where you didn't draw your combo piece or it got discarded, you can GSZ into Fauna Shaman and with it you can fetch Academy Rector. Casting a Pattern of Rebirth is risky when an opponent has a white or red mana source available unless you've successfully therapy'd their hand off of removal spells. It is safer to do it when you can sac the target immediately after without passing priority.

    The goal is to get Protean Hulk in play. Always maintain priority when Hulk comes into play and sac it immediately. The Hulk's trigger will allow you to get a sac outlet (Feeder/Seer) and Body Double. Body double comes into play as a copy of Protean Hulk (this effect does not trigger and cannot be responded to). The Body Double is sacrificed, allowing you to search for the win card (Mogg Fanatic) and Reveillark. Sacrifice Mogg Fanatic to deal 1 damage to your opponent. Afterwards, sacrifice Reveillark to bring back Mogg Fanatic and Body Double which comes into play as a copy of Reveillark this time. Rinse and repeat. At this point, you can now infinitely deal damage.

    If for any reason you draw Body Double or Reveillark, you can get Body Snatcher in their place using Hulk. Body Snatcher's trigger will allow you to discard a creature card and put it back to play from the graveyard after Body Snatcher is sacrificed. Another option is to run a second copy of Tinder Wall. You can fetch 2 Tinder Walls + Wild Cantor with the Hulk trigger and this will allow you to hardcast Body Double or Reveillark. The drawback of course is you are at risk of walking into a Daze since you are casting a spell this time.


    II. Card Selection:
    1. Sacrifice Outlets
    Cabal Therapy – combo and disruption in one card. Usually names Force of Will/Swords to Plowshares/Show and Tell/Infernal Tutor. This card is worth gold when it goes into the graveyard. A well-timed flashback is backbreaking.
    Carrion Feeder – sac outlet and win condition. Once you've killed all their creatures with a Mogg Fanatic, it can be pumped to attack for more than lethal damage against decks that play True Believer or Leyline of Sanctity.
    Viscera Seer/Starved Rusalka – as backups against a Pithing Needle naming Carrion Feeder.
    Mogg Fanatic – win condition and sac outlet - By killing off your 1-toughness creatures, you can trigger a Pattern of Rebirth.
    Phyrexian Tower – kills off a Hulk or a Patterned creature immediately. At best, an Ancient Tomb with no life loss. It taps for 1 colorless or (in exchange for a creature) making it less consistent than Ancient Tombs.
    • You can sacrifice the Feeder to itself, for example, if it gets targeted by Swords to Plowshares or if Pattern of Rebirth ends up enchanting it. You can also sacrifice Viscera Seer to itself and activate its own ability.


    2. Win Conditions
    Natural Order – the green creatures you want to find with this card are Progenitus and Protean Hulk. If you find yourself having no sac outlet available after a turn 2 Pattern of Rebirth, a Natural Order would do (sac outlet #10-13).
    Pattern of Rebirth – adds redundancy to the build and cheaper (doesn't require green creature, doesn't require ). This card will allow you to get a Carrion Feeder or Viscera Seer in play while you Natural Order a Hulk into play.
    Academy Rector – 9th win condition. (CMC=4, see a pattern here?) When this creature dies, you win via a Pattern of Rebirth on Tinder Wall/Wild Cantor if you have a sac outlet ready for the Hulk. This card gets around removal spells (will be described later). You can also fetch post-board enchantments like Carpet of Flowers or Leylines and put them directly into play.
    Protean Hulk – the combo engine. He can tutor for any number of creature cards with CMC total of 6. This means you can get Dryads Arbor for free. Alternatively, a 3-turn clock if he ends up being an attacker on an empty board.
    Fauna Shaman – Survival of the Fittest on a stick -- mainly as tutor for Academy Rector, sac outlets, or Protean Hulk. Once active, you can get Hulk instantly and drop him off Show and Tell to win on the spot.
    Green Sun's Zenith - X=0: Dryad Arbor; X=1: Starved Rusalka, Xantid Swarm or Tinder Wall; X=2: Fauna Shaman, Wall of Roots or Qasali Pridemage; X=7: Protean Hulk.
    • Since X=the CMC or less, you can play around Mental Misstep or Spell Snare by paying extra mana.


    3. Mana Sources
    Ancient Tomb – powers out a Natural Order or Pattern of Rebirth on turn 2, Protean Hulk on turn 3.
    Forest – saves you from non-basic hosers like Wasteland. A nice perk to get with Path to Exile.
    Bayou – black is the second color of the deck.
    Savannah – white source to hardcast Academy Rector.
    Gaea's Cradle – green Tolarian Academy. Pretty good with fetchlands + Dryads Arbor.
    Dryad Arbor – primarily as GSZ targets. Provides 1/1 body for combat.
    Wall of Roots – being a steady source of it earned its way back in the deck.
    Birds of Paradise – since black is the second color, Noble Hierarch is out of the picture. Birds are unaffected by red Firespouts.
    Tinder Wall/Wild Cantor – Tinder Wall can deal 2 damage to a creature it's blocking if you pay R and sac it. Wild Cantor color fixes mana from R/G to W/U/B.
    • Tinder Wall/Wild Cantor attached to a Pattern of Rebirth can be sacrificed in response to Krosan Grip on the enchantment. You still get to resolve the effect since they are mana abilities and won't use the stack.


    4. Cards that didn’t make the cut
    Noble Hierarch – in a nutshell, would have been better in the deck if it tapped for black instead of blue.
    Elvish Spirit Guide – Flash is banned, consistency is key rather than speed. Strictly a worse Pattern target.
    Summoner's Pact – same reason above. Hulk and Progenitus need to stay in the library and not in your hand.
    Sylvan Library – too slow in the deck when you can just cast spells and win. Good against control decks.
    Sylvan Safekeeper - will take away a valuable slot in the main. Is a dead card against combo decks.
    High Market – Life gain is less relevant when playing the deck. Strictly worse than Phyrexian Tower.
    Death Cultist/Bile Urchin – less utility than Mogg Fanatic.

    5. Sideboard
    4X Slaughter Pact - gets rid of Gaddock Teeg, Iona (on green). A sac outlet for Pattern of Rebirth/Hulk/Academy Rector.
    3X City of Solitude - shuts off permission and graveyard removal spells, crypt/relic/Scavenging Ooze activation.
    3X Thoughtseize - inarguably the best 1cc discard spell available at the moment against combo.
    3X Beast Within - seems good against Humility, a catch-all answer (Slaughter Pact #5-7).
    1X Qasali Pridemage
    1X Xantid Swarm

    III. Advanced Techniques:
    • Turn two-win -- GSZ (or Birds of Paradise), 2 lands (Gaea's Cradle + fetchland/Bayou), Tinder Wall, Cabal Therapy, Natural Order. Turn 1 GSZ into Dryad Arbor or play BofP. Turn 2 play Cabal Therapy, Tinder Wall, drop Cradle and tap for , sac Tinder Wall for . Cast Natural Order for Hulk, flashback Therapy.


    • Comboing off with Body Double or Reveillark in hand -- read How To Play This Deck


    • Comboing off with both Body Double and Reveillark in hand -- use Hulk to search for: Academy Rector, Carrion Feeder, Wild Cantor, and Dryads Arbor. Sac Rector for Pattern of Rebirth on Dryad Arbor, sac Dryad Arbor into 2nd Hulk. Sac Hulk for 2 Tinder Walls + Wall of Roots + Mogg Fanatic. Hardcast Reveillark (2 Tinder Walls + Wild Cantor). Sac Reveillark to get back 1 Tinder Wall + Wild Cantor. Hardcast Body Double using all available resources (as Reveillark copy) and win from there.


    • Against creature removal -- use Hulk to search for: Academy Rector, Carrion Feeder, Viscera Seer, and Dryads Arbor in the deck (total CMC is still 6). Sacrifice Academy Rector in order to get a Pattern of Rebirth on a Dryad Arbor, sacrifice it for Body Double and go off as normal. There's no way an opponent can stop you if they are holding onto a single removal spell.


    • Against Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Ravenous Trap, Stifle -- if you can't therapy these off their hand, you'll need GSZ or Fauna Shaman into Xantid Swarm to protect the combo.


    • Fighting Crypt and Relic of Progenitus -- with a Feeder or Seer in play, use Hulk to fetch Academy Rector + Qasali Pridemage. Destroy target artifact and go off as normal by sacrificing Rector.


    • Fighting Wheel of Sun and Moon and Leyline of the Void (when Progenitus won't get there) -- you'll need GSZ or Fauna Shaman into Qasali Pridemage.


    • Infinite mana + Pridemage activation on multiple targets, including a Ground Seal, Runed Halo and Leyline of Sanctity -- use Hulk to search for: Body Double + Viscera Seer. Sac Body Double (as Hulk copy) to get Academy Rector + Qasali Pridemage + Dryad Arbor. Sac Rector to Seer into Pattern of Rebirth on Dryad Arbor into Reveillark + Wild Cantor. Sac Wild Cantor for 1 and destroy target with Pridemage. Sacrifice Reveillark getting back Wild Cantor + Body Double (as Reveillark copy). After near infinite mana recursion and Pridemage activation, use Viscera Seer's ability to scry into Mogg Fanatic for the win.


    IV. Matchup Analysis:
    • Except against dedicated control and faster combo decks, your matchups are generally favorable.


    • Against Force of Will + Swords to Plowshares - Variable win %
      You have 4 Cabal Therapy + 4 GSZ for Xantid Swarm. Post board you can bring in Vexing Shusher or a second Swarm. There's also a variety of hate to choose from: Choke, City of Solitude, or Carpet of Flowers.

    • Against faster combo (Belcher/ANT/TES/SnT) - Variable win %
      You can bring in discard spells. This will slow them down a few turns while you set up a combo turn or beat them with a Progenitus. You are the aggressor since you are packed with more threats than they can disrupt.

    • Against Merfolk - Excellent win %
      Islandwalk does not work on you. Block their creatures while you wreck their hand with Therapy. Make sure there's no Cursecatcher that can put you off guard.

    • Against Ichorid - Excellent win %
      Ichorid is a slower deck without LEDS and especially now with the manaless version. You burn their Bridges down by sacrificing creatures and win shortly thereafter.

    • Other Aggro decks - Excellent win %
      Against G/w variants, watch out for Gaddock Teeg. You need to bring in no less than 4 Slaughter Pacts for this matchup.


    V. Feature Articles:
    1. From Rogue To Riches – SCG Open Pittsburgh @ ManaTalks.com
    2. Deck Tech - Hulk Rebirth @ Maná Infinito.com




    VI. Updated Decklists:

    Hulk Rebirth by Xantid Swarm
    Creatures (20)
    4 Birds of Paradise
    2 Tinder Wall
    1 Carrion Feeder
    1 Viscera Seer
    1 Starved Rusalka
    1 Wild Cantor
    1 Xantid Swarm
    1 Mogg Fanatic
    1 Fauna Shaman
    1 Wall of Roots
    1 Academy Rector
    1 Body Double
    1 Reveillark
    2 Protean Hulk
    1 Progenitus

    Spells (20)
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Pattern of Rebirth
    4 Natural Order
    4 Green Sun’s Zenith
    1 Sylvan Library

    Lands (21)
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Bayou
    1 Savannah
    2 Dryad Arbor
    2 Forest
    3 Ancient Tomb
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Gaea’s Cradle

    Sidebord (15)
    4 Slaughter Pact
    4 Carpet of Flowers
    1 Xantid Swarm
    1 Sylvan Library
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    3 Leyline of Sanctity
    Last edited by death; 12-18-2011 at 12:34 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Cardboard choices and matchup analysis coming shortly.

  3. #3

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Lots of dead draws. Faster aggro decks and/or tempo decks (Zoo/Merfolk) look like they would crush this deck easily. Show and Tell decks are faster and run protection.

  4. #4

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Wrong forum. Should be placed in new and development.

  5. #5

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    The deck is favored against aggro and tempo. Against Show and Tell, you can combo off once it resolves if you have a sac outlet available.
    Last edited by death; 07-19-2011 at 12:21 AM.

  6. #6
    Member
    Gocho's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2006
    Location

    Spain
    Posts

    393

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by death View Post
    Please refrain from posting comments unless

    1. You read the Primer
    2. You did some research
    3. You playtested the list

    thank you,
    death
    You can't post a deck and pretend that the people playtest before comment in The Source :D

    We are testing a similar list here at Spain but with the Infinite Persist Combo in the place of the Reveilark and mana creatures. I put the deck at the teamstormboards. It have less dead draws because every creature is part of the combo kill, can search for defense to skip graveyard hate while comboing and plays more sacrifice effects and more defense (Thoughtseize in the place of Gitaxian Probe).

    I'll post it if anyone want it.

  7. #7
    Member
    mort-'s Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2009
    Location

    Trier, Germany
    Posts

    196

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    I would be interested in the list :) Thanks.

  8. #8

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Gocho View Post
    We are testing a similar list here at Spain but with the Infinite Persist Combo in the place of the Reveilark and mana creatures.
    On the contrary, from what I've seen so far 4 Meliras, 4 Feeders, 4-8 Persists says otherwise. List looks cold to spot or mass removal spells with no way of getting around them. I also don't see much acceleration going on compared to this deck which still has room for it.

  9. #9
    Member
    Gocho's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2006
    Location

    Spain
    Posts

    393

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by death View Post
    On the contrary, from what I've seen so far 4 Meliras, 4 Feeders, 4-8 Persists says otherwise. List looks cold to spot or mass removal spells with no way of getting around them. I also don't see much acceleration going on compared to this deck which still has room for it.
    I'll post the list today in a new primer and let that you see its resilient for yourself ;)

    EDIT:
    Done:
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...485#post569485
    Last edited by Gocho; 07-19-2011 at 09:50 AM.

  10. #10

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoFireheart View Post
    Lots of dead draws. Faster aggro decks and/or tempo decks (Zoo/Merfolk) look like they would crush this deck easily. Show and Tell decks are faster and run protection.
    Clearly, you've put a lot of thought and research into this statements. They obviously aren't initial impressions without any real thought, justification or other insight.

    The deck is fast. I know playing it to a 7-2 record at SCG Baltimore. I combo'd out on turn 3, and that was with me hardcasting the Hulk. I raced storm on several occasions and won, although Bryant beat me by using Chant to delay me a turn and then topdecked his tutor to combo off. I beat a reanimator player who got a turn 2 Jin gitaxis. This deck is far faster then it looks.

    The package of Cabal Therapy with Gitaxian Probe is really quite brutal. It really lets you tear through your opponents disruption and leave them helpless. It gives you the go ahead, knowing what your up against and it facilitates your combo.

    There are actually not too many dead cards. The mana accelerators and walls are pretty useful. GSZ gives a lot of consistancy to do what you need to do, and 8 of the spells basically win you the game when they resolve (NO, Pattern). And having a 10/10 Pro everything as your backup plan is quality as well.

    The deck can combo off totally ignoring a single instant speed removal spell, which is pretty impressive. And since you ussually have tons of information (due to probes and therapies) you know what you have to play around and how.

    As for the Melira combo version, that seems slower, packed with dead draws and without any significant added benefit.

  11. #11
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2010
    Location

    MNL
    Posts

    322

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    I think Mogg Fanatic should be played over Death Cultist. It basically ends the game the same way, but it has the added benefit of killing random x/1 dorks such as Birds, Hierarch, Confidant etc. I think this is huge because Mogg Fanatic, prior to comboing, will have more of an effect than Death Cultist will ever have. And, another bonus is it lets you play around Leyline of Sanctity by killing all the blockers and letting you swing through with your 100/100 Carrion Feeder.

  12. #12
    Member
    Gocho's Avatar
    Join Date

    Dec 2006
    Location

    Spain
    Posts

    393

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpened View Post
    Clearly, you've put a lot of thought and research into this statements. They obviously aren't initial impressions without any real thought, justification or other insight.

    The deck is fast. I know playing it to a 7-2 record at SCG Baltimore. I combo'd out on turn 3, and that was with me hardcasting the Hulk. I raced storm on several occasions and won, although Bryant beat me by using Chant to delay me a turn and then topdecked his tutor to combo off. I beat a reanimator player who got a turn 2 Jin gitaxis. This deck is far faster then it looks.

    The package of Cabal Therapy with Gitaxian Probe is really quite brutal. It really lets you tear through your opponents disruption and leave them helpless. It gives you the go ahead, knowing what your up against and it facilitates your combo.

    There are actually not too many dead cards. The mana accelerators and walls are pretty useful. GSZ gives a lot of consistancy to do what you need to do, and 8 of the spells basically win you the game when they resolve (NO, Pattern). And having a 10/10 Pro everything as your backup plan is quality as well.

    The deck can combo off totally ignoring a single instant speed removal spell, which is pretty impressive. And since you ussually have tons of information (due to probes and therapies) you know what you have to play around and how.

    As for the Melira combo version, that seems slower, packed with dead draws and without any significant added benefit.
    The Melira version can combo with grave hate in the board/hand.
    It looks like a significant benefit to me ;)
    And it have the same requisites in the board to combo than this version. Speed isn't always better than toughness.

  13. #13

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    @ Zero - I am interested in learning more about this deck. Could you post thoughts/ideas of what a starting SB would look like?

    Going along with that, what are your big "worry" matchups or cards?

  14. #14

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Sideboard Cards:
    3 Carpet of Flowers
    3 Slaughter Pact
    2 Xantid Swarm
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    2 Krosan Grip
    4 Leyline of Sanctity

    That's my sideboard, but Death may go with something else.

    You need Slaughter Pacts for Gaddock Teeg. Being able to end him is pretty huge, as he shuts off your deck short of hardcasting Hulk.

    Qasalit Pridemage is a good GSZ answer to most random hate you'll see, I tend to side him in no matter what.

    The Grips are so you aren't just cold to Humility.

    The leylines are becuase Storm is pretty much a nightmare matchup. Generally speaking, they are just faster then you.

    Carpet of Flowers and extra Xantid swarms are for the control decks, obviously. They tend to have trouble fighting through your mana superiority and disruption, so overloading on those aspects is generally the way to go.

    Really, there's not alot I find overly scary with the deck. Noninteractive combo, like storm decks, are a race, and that can be tough. Fortunately, dredge doesn't like decks that sacrifice their own creatures, so that noninteractive combo matchup is pretty favorable. Pure control decks aren't too tough, as you have a lot of diruption and must counterstuff. The merfolk aggro control decks aren't too bad either becuase you have enough things to slow them down (blockers) to by you time to force through a must counter. Playing against Goblins kinda felt like cheating, and other linear aggro is pretty much the same. NO RUG has given me problems, as they can combine countermagic with a fast clock and some removal, which does lead to headaches.

    Basically, the deck has diverse methods of attack (Progenitus or Hulk Combo) and it's really hard to shut out both.

  15. #15

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Right now, in a vacuum, the scariest and most consistent decks would be

    U/B ANT (w/ Gitaxian Probe)
    U/B Reanimator (w/ Jin-Gitaxias)
    Hive Mind
    Spiral Tide

    But since the coming of Mental Misstep/Flusterstorm and popularity of REB/Pyroblast, they are no longer at same the power level they used to be and the meta has always come prepared. This time, there is an opportunity for this deck to shine given the situation where most of their sb cards are dead against us.

    Fwiw, I never liked Burning Wish in ANT.

  16. #16
    Stomping blue decks with "dead" decks, as usual.
    Vandalize's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2010
    Posts

    314

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Can't you go for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Sky Hussar as a 3rd (?) win condition?

    You could remove some utility creatures and add those two guys for some straightfoward strategy combo. The only problem I see is drawing into them...
    Let your Dredge 6 be: Narco, Narco, Narco, Bridge, Bridge, Dread Return

  17. #17
    Member
    John Cox's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2011
    Location

    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts

    372

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    I played around with something similar to this using personal tutor to find Natural Order a while ago. I Originally had slaughter pact and Natural order as my combo, and had a sorcery speed sacrifice outlet that could be found with personal tutor. The deck was really janky.
    This looks better, and I'll have to test it. I'm just wondering though, is there enough protection/disruption in this?

  18. #18

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Hello everyone, I'm the one who built this deck and played it at Providence. My friend also played it to a top 64 finish at the GP (58th) and actualy enjoy a lot of success with it on MTGO.

    I personaly do not play Body Snatcher. It's not needed and I recommand to cut it for 1 Wall of Roots. Wall of Roots is a good blocker and a good target for Pattern of Rebirth against decks packing Lightning Bolt / Fireblast / Pirokinesis. I also play Mogg Fanatic over Death Cultist as a more useful creature before combo.

    There is a lot of way to fight grave hate. Most obvious is simply to cast NO for Progenitus. You can also use GSZ for Qasali Pridemage (an essential sideboard card) to destroy a Leyline of the Void. Against Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus the trick is to sac Hulk and get Pridemage + Academy Rector. You kill the Crypt or Relic with Pridemage and then combo out via Rector.

    Your main protection and disruption are the 4 Therapy + Xantid Swarm. The fact that you can Zenith for Swarm is huge. Also, you play so much must-counter cards that even if a NO or a Pattern get countered, you are often able to cast another one next turn.

    I tried Leyline of Sanctity in the side as Sharpened suggested and they are very good not only against storm but also against B/W discards decks. On a final note, any Show and Tell matchup is favourable because of your ability to win from your opponent Show and Tell so Hive Mind is not a scary matchup.

  19. #19

    Re: [Deck] Zenith-Rebirth Order (ZeRo) — Flashless Hulk Combo

    @Xantid Swarm, welcome! I've found Wall of Roots to be a practical choice as it provides a steady source of when I'm short on lands, especially against Wastelands. I find it really useful so I'm bringing it back. I'm going with 1/1 split with Tinder Wall and a Body Snatcher since I don't like hardcasting stuff once I start to go off.

    @mrjumbo, Mogg Fanatic is more versatile, true. It's also castable via Tinder Wall (not just Cantor) if it gets stuck in the hand (and no Taiga). The reason why I'm sticking with Cultist is because I don't want to run a Taiga, the 2nd Savannah is what makes the mana base stable for casting Rector in cases when BofPs get shot down. I put more weight into getting the combo online as early as possible undisrupted.

    @John Cox, I think the 9 protection spells pre-board are enough. Although I'm considering a 2-1 Probe/Thoughtseize split.

    @Xantid Swarm, any help with the matchups and sideboard stategies will be appreciated.

  20. #20
    Member
    PanderAlexander's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    East L.A.
    Posts

    253

    Re: [ZeRO] Zenith-Rebirth Order — Flashless Hulk Combo

    Quote Originally Posted by Xantid Swarm View Post
    Hello everyone, I'm the one who built this deck and played it at Providence.
    Welcome! Is your name Felix? I use to play with you a lot on MWS when I first joined legacy last year, I remember you playing flash-less hulk all the time.


    This deck won the Jupiter games invitational yesterday, decklist is here:
    http://sales.jupitergamesonline.com/...gacy-qualifier

    Creature (21)
    2x Tinder Wall
    2x Protean Hulk
    4x Birds of Paradise
    1x Reveillark
    1x Wild Cantor
    1x Mogg Fanatic
    1x Progenitus
    1x Academy Rector
    1x Viscera Seer
    1x Body Double
    1x Xantid Swarm
    1x Wall of Roots
    1x Starved Rusalka
    1x Carrion Feeder
    2x Dryad Arbor
    Land (20)
    3x Verdant Catacombs
    2x Wooded Foothills
    2x Misty Rainforest
    2x Windswept Heath
    1x Savannah
    1x Forest
    3x Bayou
    3x Ancient Tomb
    2x Dryad Arbor
    1x Phyrexian Tower
    Sorcery (12)
    4x Natural Order
    4x Gitaxian Probe
    4x Cabal Therapy
    Enchantment (4)
    4x Pattern of Rebirth
    Sideboard (8)
    2x Carpet of Flowers
    1x Choke
    1x Xantid Swarm
    2x Krosan Grip
    3x Null Rod
    1x Qasali Pridemage
    4x Slaughter Pact
    1x Sylvan Library
    Quote Originally Posted by everythingitouchdies
    We dont let drug laden fiends and swine come marching in and take our shit. We send them home with the memory of the monsters and vigilantes that curb stomped their dreams and threatened to animate their dead grandmother for a black and a colorless. No fucking around in LA.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)