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Thread: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

  1. #1
    (previously Metalwalker)
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    [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    So Arcum was my second EDH general (first general was Rhys the Redeemed). A few years ago, I worked on a pretty competitive and cutthroat list that did well for me. Ever since Tolarian Academy and Staff of Domination were banned, I took the deck apart and stopped playing EDH for a good number of years. Recently, my Legacy playgroup has expressed EDH interest, and I decided to sleeve back Dagsson. With a few years of experience playing Legacy and Eternal format, I would say that the list was much more streamlined than before.

    This list is well capable for multiplayer games as well, but I would not advise bringing it to a casual group.


    [1 GENERAL]
    1 Arcum Dagsson

    [35 LAND]
    12 Island
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Buried Ruin
    1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
    1 Seat of the Synod
    1 Petrified Fields
    1 Inkmoth Nexus
    1 Blinkmoth Nexus
    1 Mishra's Factory
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Wasteland
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Rishadan Port
    1 Dustbowl
    1 Crystal Vein
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors
    1 Mishra's Workshop
    1 Tolaria West

    [15 NON-ARTIFACT]
    1 Pact of Negation
    1 Muddle the Mixture
    1 Mana Drain
    1 Force of Will
    1 Misdirection
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Fabricate
    1 Intuition
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Tezzeret the Seeker
    1 Mind over Matter
    1 Time Spiral
    1 Future Sight
    1 Magus of the Future
    1 Power Artifact

    [24 ACCELERANT]
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Mox Opal
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Etherium Sculptor
    1 Guardian Idol
    1 Manakin
    1 Millikin
    1 Plague Myr
    1 Silver Myr
    1 Grim Monolith
    1 Mind Stone
    1 Alloy Myr
    1 Palladium Myr
    1 Basalt Monolith
    1 Thran Dyanmo
    1 Gilded Lotus
    1 Voltaic Key
    1 Filigree Sages
    1 Clock of Omens
    1 Cloud Key

    [8 PRISON/OTHERS]
    1 Spellskite
    1 Possessed Portal
    1 Sculpting Steel
    1 Lightning Greaves
    1 Karn, Silver Golem
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Darksteel Forge
    1 Phyrexian Revoker

    [11 CARD ADVANTAGE]
    1 Expedition Map
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Myr Retriever
    1 Junk Diver
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
    1 Planar Portal
    1 Master Transmuter
    1 Myr Turbine
    1 Rings of Brighthearth

    [6 REMOVAL]
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Oblivion Stone
    1 Nevinryal's Disk
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Duplicant
    1 Spine of Ish Sah



    Here's the decklist/deck-analysis on my google spreadsheet:
    https://spreadsheets.google.com/spre...hl=en_US#gid=6

    The way that I play Arcum is:

    1. Play all the best accelerants the format has to offer
    2. Play all the creature accelerants that ACCELERATE Arcum i.e. 2cmc Myrs
    3. Have a focused combo plan (essentially, it's really Rings+Basalt+SDT, Possessed Portal)
    4. Card-efficient combo (i.e. you want combos that have components that are not worthless on their own)
    5. Every other card in the deck has to pull its weight and be amazing when drawn.



    ACCELERANTS

    Without a doubt, every competitive cutthroat EDH deck should play:
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Mox Opal
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Grim Monolith
    1 Mind Stone
    1 Basalt Monolith
    1 Thran Dyanmo
    1 Gilded Lotus
    1 Voltaic Key


    I don't support Chrome Mox due to my tremendously low blue count. The other Arcum-related accelerants are:
    1 Etherium Sculptor
    1 Guardian Idol
    1 Manakin
    1 Millikin
    1 Plague Myr
    1 Silver Myr
    1 Alloy Myr
    1 Palladium Myr
    1 Filigree Sages
    1 Clock of Omens
    1 Cloud Key

    MYRS
    The 2cmc Myrs are mandatory in Arcum. They accelerate him out a turn faster and feed him for tutoring. The 3cmc Myrs are less impressive but could create the mana required for situations where you do not draw your 4th landdrop otherwise i.e. it's to decrease variance of not being able to cast Arcum. Alloy Myr is the weakest slot but can't be replaced unless they are printing more artifact creature accelerants.


    FILIGREE SAGES
    Filigree Sages is there because it is completely busted with a Power Artifact (untapping Gilded Lotus) or when you have infinite mana out with Mycosynth Lattice, you can start untapping Planar Portal or Arcum and play out your whole deck).


    CLOCK OF OMENS
    This card is really busted, despite looking like a bad Voltaic Key initially. I would prefer an 'untap all artifacts' effect but it doesn't seem that such alternatives exist that allow you to untap artifacts at instant speed. With a Mycosynthe Lattice in play, this card because hilarious (you can tap your lands to untap Arcum and other things etc).


    NON-ARTIFACT

    1 Pact of Negation
    1 Muddle the Mixture
    1 Mana Drain
    1 Force of Will
    1 Misdirection
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Fabricate
    1 Intuition
    1 Tezzeret the Seeker
    1 Mind over Matter
    1 Time Spiral
    1 Future Sight
    1 Magus of the Future
    1 Power Artifact

    PERMISSION
    Permission package includes the mandatory: Pact of Negation, Mana Drain, FoW, Misdirection. Hinder was initially in the list but was much inferior to Muddle the Mixture since you are really not interested in a 3cmc counterspell v.s. a 2cmc version that could tutor for combo pieces such as Grim Monolith, Power Artifact or Mana Drain


    TUTORS
    The other cards need no explanation. MTutor, Intuition, Fabricate are powerful tutors, Tezzeret allows you to win games without ever having to activate Arcum (go grab Rings of Brighthearth first, and setup for Rings+Basalt+SDT win). Mind Over Matter is completely stupid in the format. Time Spiral, Future Sight/Magus of the Future gives huge card advantage.


    FUTURE SIGHT
    I play 2x Future Sight effects because resolving one already guarantees huge card advantage above your opponents, and supports the Etherium Sculptor/Cloud Key + SDT combo. (Remember that you want to play combo shells that don't have worthless combo components. This is the reason why I don't play Mind Over Matter + [cards]Temple Bell[cards] + Eldrazi combo because the Temple Bell/Eldrazi is really terrible on their own).

    I used to run Mind's Eye but has since taken it out because I am never tinkering for Mind's Eye with Arcum and if I needed cards from Arcum, Memory Jar is the prime target with Arcum. Therefore drawing Mind's Eye because much inferior to drawing Magus of the Future (Magus replaced Mind's Eye).



    PRISON
    1 Static Orb
    1 Mindslaver
    1 Possessed Portal
    1 Sculpting Steel
    1 Lightning Greaves
    1 Karn, Silver Golem
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Darksteel Forge


    POSSESSED PORTAL
    I used to play Winter Orb, in fact, I was the first person on MTGS that suggested that the crucial piece for a successful Arcum list was really revolving around Winter Orb. Things have changed since then because the old strategy of going Winter Orb+Tangle Wire into Candelabra of Tawnos and Tolarian Academy was just way too slow. Winter Orb also did not get around competitive decks that played out its artifact mana fast. In replacement, Static Orb proved to be much devastating, but is still the weakest slot that could be cut from the list.

    The true prison replacement in this list that allowed me to cut down on 2 card slots in my older lists (Tangle Wire, Smokestack) was Possessed Portal. Getting a turn 3 Possessed Portal is backbreaking. Portal ensures that the game state never advances and only retards for both players. However, since you have a tutoring general in play that usually comes out faster than opposing generals (due to the monoU and heavy artifact/accelerant-theme to Arcum), you can lock people out much faster without the need to go through multiple turns under a Winter Orb to find your combo pieces while maintaining the lock.

    Possessed Portal is perhaps one of the three targets that you always tinker first. If it sticks, Tinkering up a Spine of Ish Sha when you have 7 mana available allows you to sac Spine, play spine and put them back to ground zero. Otherwise tutoring Crucible of Worlds or Myr Turbine also creates the lock.


    MYCOSYNTHE LATTICE
    Mycosynthe Lattice is another busted card that you tutor up as a finishing combo. I seldom find myself going the Mycosynthe Lattice + Darksteel Forge + Nevinrryal's Disk combo these days. It is great to have a backup assymetrical boardwipe/wincon and it is the only reason why the combo is still there (Disk/Forge themselves are not bad cards in this deck). Lattice is really used to power out combo win conditions such as:

    - Lattice + Clock of Omens + Arcum etc
    - Lattice + infinite colorless mana allows you to cast everything in your deck (even Mind Over Matter. The mana-fixing of Lattice is huge to powering out the heavy-U combos).
    - Lattice + Karn

    Arcum is really nothing without Lattice in the list. Lattice fulfills all the combo/accelerant/prison that the deck ever needs.


    CARD ADVANTAGE
    1 Expedition Map
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Myr Retriever
    1 Junk Diver
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Solemn Simulacrum
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
    1 Planar Portal
    1 Master Transmuter
    1 Myr Turbine
    1 Rings of Brighthearth


    EXPEDITION MAP
    Primarily fetches Mishra's Workshop or Strip Mine (with Crucible lock). With M12, fetching Buried Ruins makes the Map incredibly powerful. Buried Ruins is ages better than Academy Ruins in this deck.

    TOP
    Great by itself, but a combo piece for Future Sight/Magus of the Future + Top or Rings of Brighthearth+Basalt Monolith+Top (this combo is tutorable by Arcum/Tezzeret). Sometimes I wonder why Top isn't banned in this format.

    MYR RETRIEVER/JUNK DIVER
    I used to run crap like Copper Gnomes but these little dudes are incredibly powerful in the deck. They can sustain a few critters for Arcum to sac, or recur Jars and more powerful artifacts

    MEMORY JAR
    Why is this unbanned in EDH? Used primarily when you have tons of artifact mana out to play out your hands (not too hard for this deck), or used in conjunction with Mind Over Matter to untap lots of Gilded Lotus

    PLANAR PORTAL
    Tutored out in the late-game to assemble combos involving cards that are otherwise untutorable such as Mind Over Matter and Future Sight. With Infinite colorless mana out and an untapper e.g. Clock of Omens, you can win games from there.

    MYR TURBINE
    This card is one of the top 5 most frequently tutored pieces. It allows you to tinker every turn. It replaced the old Nuisance Engine since it does not need mana investment to make a token. Also, it allows my deck to be even more Myr-themed so my Myr tokens and Myr Life counters look more awesome.

    RINGS OF BRIGHTHEARTH
    The most busted card in the format. In any deck, this card should always be played. It's both fun, and tremendously broken with ANYTHING (Planeswalkers/Stripmines/Planar Portal/Arcum/Clock of Omens etc)
    Last edited by GGoober; 09-27-2011 at 03:41 PM.
    Decks that I care about:
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    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  2. #2
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    COMBO PATHS: THE ROAD TO VICTORY

    Here's a list of the most commonly tutored combo with Arcum (with explanations), followed by a section of mini combos:


    COMBO 1: Rings of Brighthearth + Basalt Monolith + Sensei's Divining Top

    WHY AND WHEN TO USE THIS COMBO:
    This combo wins the fastest and is the safest way to win (draw your deck, play your deck out with infinite colorless mana). It requires 2 artifact creature fodder, Arcum to survive for 2 turns. If any of this condition fails, the combo will not be completed. You usually tutor for Rings instead of Top/Basalt because Rings by itself is busted with the rest of the deck. Sometimes I tutor out Basalt first depending on whether I can keep Arcum for another turn, or if I have something in my hand that I can play out that will screw my opponents over.

    SEQUENCE:
    1. Tutor for Rings first.
    2. Tutor for both Basalt Monolith AND Sensei's Divining Top using the Rings activating Arcum's tutoring ability

    COMBO:
    Generate infinite mana with Rings + Basalt Monolith. Basalt Monolith costs to untap and taps for . You copy the untap ability with Rings so each untap/tap cycle costs to untap and produces . With the infinite colorless mana, you play SDT and tap SDT to draw your top card and copy this with Rings. Resolve the copied ability and put SDT on top of library drawing a card, the original ability resolves letting you draw SDT. Repeat the cycle to draw your deck and win.


    COMBO 2: Possessed Portal + Spine of Ish Sha/Myr Turbine/Crucible of Worlds

    WHY AND WHEN TO USE THIS COMBO:
    This combo sets up the prison lock. This is mostly used in multiplayer games and against opponents that tend to have strategies relying on drawing cards to win (e.g. Necropotence) Possessed Portal is especially brutal in multiplayer games (read the card, it happens EVERY EOT and EVERYONE is affected). Possessed Portal is what I would love to call Smokestack+Uba Mask on crack. It isn't a fun card, but the card becomes more fun when you assymetrically pair it up with Crucible or Myr Turbine. After you sustained the lock, tutor out the Rings+Basalt+Top combo to win.

    SEQUENCE:
    1. Tutor for Possessed Portal first.
    2. Tutor for Spine of Ish Sha if your board position can sustain 7 mana, this way you sac Spine to your possessed portal, recast it, and reuse it for up to three smokestack/vindicates on your opponents every turn.
    2. Tutor for Myr Turbine if you don't have enough artifact creatures to support Arcum. The worst scenario is if they removed Arcum, your Myr Turbine can still continue to feed Possessed Portal and you can continue your game with your permanents while your opponents start with no hand and no permanents.
    3. Tutor for Crucible of Worlds if you have strip lands and you need to slow your opponents even more.




    COMBO:
    Generate infinite mana with Rings + Basalt Monolith. Basalt Monolith costs to untap and taps for . You copy the untap ability with Rings so each untap/tap cycle costs to untap and produces . With the infinite colorless mana, you play SDT and tap SDT to draw your top card and copy this with Rings. Resolve the copied ability and put SDT on top of library drawing a card, the original ability resolves letting you draw SDT. Repeat the cycle to draw your deck and win.



    COMBO 3: Mycosynthe Lattice + Nevinrryal's Disk/Oblivion Stone/Darksteel Forge/etc

    WHY AND WHEN TO USE THIS COMBO:
    Lattice is a late-game and slower combo. True combos with Lattice take over 3 turns to setup but the greatest benefit of Lattice is that by itself, it helps power out incredible plays by having huge synergy with the deck:

    E.g.
    1. If you have Karn out, that's one combo
    2. If you have Tezzeret out, that's another way to untap permanents (including Arcum)
    3. If you have Filigree Sages/Clock of Omens out, that's another way to untap permanents (including Arcum) or generate absurd amounts of plays with Planar Portal/Gilded Lotus/Power Artifact etc
    4. It allows you to play your heavier blue spells as if they were artifact-costed (e.g. Mind over Matter, Future Sight)

    TRUE-COMBOS:
    1. Lattice + Karn, Silver Golem
    2. Lattice + Darksteel Forge + Nevinrryal's Disk/Oblivion Stone (emergency reset button, you don't need darksteel forge here if you're resetting the board, but forge makes you keep all your permanents while your opponents loses everything).
    3. Lattice + untapper (e.g. Clock of Omens/Mind Over Matter pair up easily with the 3-mana generators e.g. Mana Vault/Gilded Lotus/Thran Dynamo/Basalt Monolith/Grim Monolith to generate huge amounts of mana, and then pair up with Arcum/Planar Portal/Memory Jar to almost play out your deck.

    SEQUENCE:
    1. Tutor for Mycosynthe Lattice if you have secondary cards in hand or in play that can abuse the Lattice for either combos or mana generation.
    2. Abuse with said secondary cards.





    OTHER COMMONLY TUTORED CARDS/SINGLETONS
    - Spine of Ish Sha (against Zur)
    - Crucible of Worlds (if you have a stripland)
    - Expedition Map (if you have a Crucible, LOL see above :D)
    - Plana Portal (usually to tutor for a Mind over Matter next and be stupid)
    - Basalt Monolith (tutored more often than Gilded Lotus or Thran Dynamo because of combo potential with Power Artifact and Rings of Brighthearth
    - Clock of Omens (just a disgusting Voltaic Key in the deck)
    - Memory Jar (when you have huge mana but not quite infinite or a Mind Over Matter in play, this is an insane card. Also tutored commonly when you have Myr Retriever/Buried Ruin in play)
    - Myr Turbine (actually a really commonly tutored card because it gives you free tinkers every turn)
    - Cloud Key When you have Top in play and Future Sight/Magus of the Future in play.

    Sorry if this section is boring, you really only ever need 2 combos to go off:
    1. Rings+Basalt+Top: wins in 2 turns, very very easy to setup with the general
    2. Possessed Portal + Myr Turbine: stops your opponents from winning and makes you win in the next 2-3 turns when everyone is locked out.
    Last edited by GGoober; 07-26-2011 at 02:32 PM.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
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    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  3. #3
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    This list is well capable for multiplayer games as well, but I would not advise bringing it to a casual group.
    I don't want to play Prison or infinite combos for exactly this reason. I don't know, if this thread or even this forum is only for the discussion of competetive EDH decks, but do you think an aggro approach could work with Arcum?
    I have a decklist in mind with many Myrs, Steel Overseer, Adaptive Automaton, Master of Etherium, Akroma's Memorial, Coat of Arms, Myr Matrix/Turbine/Reservoir, many Equipment and other supportive stuff.



    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    when you have infinite mana out with Mycosynth Lattice
    I don't get it.


    @your list: Why no Vedalken Shackles and Ward of Bones?

    Oh, and why didn't you continue your other Arcum thread?

  4. #4
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    In my experience playing against Arcum, it is extremely powerful. It is so powerful that people catch on very quickly to what you are trying to do and will team up against you when they see you lay Arcum down on the table while you are all still shuffling up and rolling for who plays first.

    True story: This guy brought Arcum to our casual EDH league. None of us had ever played against it before and didn't quite know what to expect. He didn't seem to be doing much over the course of the game, so we all just left him alone until it was too late where he comboed. Where I play, we tried not to be complete dicks to people for playing things that are super-competitive. This deck was so ridiculous, people asked him to change decks after we played against it a few times. He declined to do so and we all made it a priority to kill him first before we did anything else. After 3 weeks of us killing him first, he stopped coming to play. Until we started a competitive EDH league. He returned with the same deck, but we still had the same game plan. 2 weeks went by and we never saw him again. This was 6 months ago
    Moral: People hate playing against this deck.
    Asylum EDH: Foil or go home.

  5. #5
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Bignasty197 View Post
    Until we started a competitive EDH league. He returned with the same deck, but we still had the same game plan. 2 weeks went by and we never saw him again. This was 6 months ago
    Moral: People hate playing against this deck.
    If you're playing "competitive" EDH and still find the need to gangbang one player because they're playing a combo deck, perhaps you shouldn't play "competitively" or you should play decks that don't suck. I actually play against Metalwalker regularly - we have an informal competitive EDH league where we all play broken decks - and it's a lot of fun. Then again, our meta is pretty much Arcum vs. Oona vs. Sharum vs. Zur vs. other combo decks, because combo is the best thing ever. This deck is actually a little slower than fast combo decks like Oona and Sharum, but it has a lot of potential power and consistency due to its general.

    Quote Originally Posted by sco0ter View Post
    I don't want to play Prison or infinite combos for exactly this reason.
    Then this deck is probably not for you.

    EDIT: @ Metalwalker: list looks good, I can't think of much else to put in there. Cards that come to mind right now that aren't uber expensive are Recurring Insight, Mystic Remora and Skullclamp. Have you tested any of those?
    Last edited by Admiral_Arzar; 07-25-2011 at 11:40 AM. Reason: Avoid double post.
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    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
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    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    How about Thousand Year Elixir to activate your General the turn you play him twice? Looks like a solid addition.

    How about adding Karn Planeswalker and Jace, the Mind Sculptor?
    Last edited by Muradin; 07-25-2011 at 12:49 PM.

  7. #7
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Muradin View Post
    How about Thousand Year Elixir to activate your General the turn you play him twice? Looks like a solid addition.

    How about adding Karn Planeswalker and Jace, the Mind Sculptor?
    Copy-pasta'd from MTGS (also fucking hate MTGS, fucking mod just came up and trolled me that I'm being too general in my PRIMER. Instead of arguing with him, I just changed out PRIMER for EDH so I don't have to deal with that shit site anymore).

    @Thousand Year Elixir: I hope you don't catch me sounding as if I know how to play Arcum optimally but I have cut this card even in the older list I ran 2-3 years back. The reason why Elixir isn't good is because it's a win-more card that takes a non-land slot. Minamo, School at Water's Edge is a great card because it takes a land slot. The reason why Elixir is win-more is because: To untap Arcum and use Elixir, you need to have 2 artifact creatures in play, and this situation doesn't come up too naturally (at least in my list where I feel my artifact creature count is low). If it's the haste effect of Elixir that makes it worthwhile, I would suggest to think again, because this would require setting up Elixir on turn 2-3, while also being able to setup an artifact creature from turn 1-3 to be able to use Elixir. Elixir's untap is win-more and it's haste-activated-ability is in fact very situational. Hope this explains it for you
    I'm not sure if I want to run Boseiju and Hall of Bandit Lord in this deck. I used to run Hall but cut it because drawing Hall as your 2nd/3rd land drop sucked balls. My Zur friends always seems to get the nuts with Hall though so I might have to consider it. Thoughts?

    Karn was tried for 1 week in the list and is kinda worthless. The best Planeswalker in the deck is Tezzeret. Jace 2.0 is decent. Thanks to my playgroup that usually wins on turn 3-6, I have cut Jace because 4cmc Brainstorm x1 to x2 doesn't seem good at all :/ Karn as a Vindicate was weak because I found tutoring for Spine with Possessed Portal was more fun and seemed to do the job better since you can tutor for it. I would love to play Jace 2.0 and all these great cards (Karn is still awesome) but there's so little space to cut right now. I would say the weakest cards in the MD are now:

    Mox Opal (but accelerants > everything)
    Kudoltha Forgemaster (really not that great, but sometimes 1 Tinker is all you need to win a game lol)
    Static Orb (this is really there for situational purposes. Tangle Wire is also good but I prefer Static Orb)
    Lightning Greaves (sometimes I feel like a pussy and tutor this out. In my playgroup, everyone is a combo or combo-control deck so this card is kinda worthless since no one has time to waste mana to StP/Treachery dudes).

    @Bignasty: Arcum still kinda lose to Erayo/Sharuum/Zur (most definitely Zur). You can race Sharuum with striplands because they are more vulnerable but Sharuum is for most parts more explosive than you, also your lockpieces aren't spetacular against Sharuum since they play the same style as you do. Zur is just GG when he swings once and grabs necro. If Necro is banned in the format, I'm very confident Arcum can compete against Zur. Also, we all lose to Clique 1v1, but in multiplayer, Arcum is a fun deck. (well fun if your whole group is playing similarly unfun decks, don't play Arcum if people are playing casual decks, don't be a dick, take out your other casual EDH decks instead).

    In defense of Arcum, when Arcum goes turn 2 Arcum into Possessed Portal and you don't have the removal, you can beat any 1vX games :P but that doesn't come up too often.

    @Arzar:
    Remora is great in mutliplayer game, but I designed this deck for 1v1 mainly. I don't like multiplayer games for reasons you know why (Player A stops B from comboing, B stops C, no more counterspells so D goes off). The most recent cut I did was cutting Mind's Eye. Card is insane the way Remora is in multiplayer, however in multiplayer, the main strategy is grab Possessed Portal instead of actual combo pieces such as Rings. This is because you want to shut off multiple answers to Arcum instead of risking 2 turns to tutor up your combo.

    @sc00ter:
    This thread is a cutthroat EDH deck so sorry I don't have feedback. Playing casual Arcum is not wrong, but this list is mainly for competitive play. If you want casual, there's a ton to explore as you've suggested. If you want some real fun with Myrs, try out Coretapper and Darksteel REactor with tons of untap effect (Unwinding Clock) and Magistrate's Scepter. I actually have a casual deck called IMMA CHARGIN MYR LAZER which involves Coretappers and tons of untap to charge up Lux Cannon and Magistrate's Scepter and Umezawa's Jitte. It's awesome :D

    But sorry if this list is competitive. I will have some fun EDH casual decks coming up (Sliver Queen). I started a new thread because I think I was too stupid to look for my old one here (since I really developed the old one on MTGS).
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  8. #8
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Also, can someone PLEASE hook me up with a Korean Manakin. Aside from a foil misdirection and foil Thran Dynamo, I have the whole deck pimped out (sorry no Jap foils since I don't EDH that much, will post pics of the deck soon when I decide I want to waste 2 hours taking photographs of paper).

    That Korean Manakin is going to be a hard one to find on Ebay. Help a fello Sourcer out! :P
    Decks that I care about:
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    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Perhaps Trinket Mage would be good. You know yourself best what he can get in your EDH. I had the Plainswalkers in other artifact based EDHs (not this one though) and they were very strong with Rings of Brightheart, but if they are too slow for your meta, that's fine.

    How about Spell Pierce / Mental Misstep then to counter your opponent's accleration / removal on your general?

    Another probably bad idea: Thirst for Knowledge for draw and Vendilion Clique to protect your general from removal / vs all those broken decks in your metagame.

    I also played the deck on MWS a bit and found myself a little short on blue mana quite often. How about cutting some of the weaker lands like Ghost Quarter for some more Islands? The lands like Mishra's Factory and Blinkmoth Nexus were really good at providing fodder for Arcum Dagsson.

    Besides, this deck is pretty awesome and I really enjoyed playing it on MWS. Most people were upset when playing against this, but when I changed my game name to "Serious competitive 1 V 1 EDH" I even got to play against some of those broken Zur decks you mentioned.

    Best draw I managed was 2nd Turn General, 3rd turn tutor for Rings of Brightheart, Strip Mine 2x, 4th turn tutor for Crucible, Strip Mine 2x.

    EDIT: What's actually the purpose of Time Spiral in this deck? Felt fucking weak every time I played it refilling mine and my opponent's hand. Probably I am missing something but for now I replaced it with Jace, TMS in the decklist I copied from you for online play.

    And I see qhat Filligree Sage (probably not spelled correctly here) does, but it seems to range from win more to totally useless in its applications.

  10. #10
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    I have the whole deck pimped out.
    Do you have a real Arcum yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muradin View Post

    EDIT: What's actually the purpose of Time Spiral in this deck? Felt fucking weak every time I played it refilling mine and my opponent's hand. Probably I am missing something but for now I replaced it with Jace, TMS in the decklist I copied from you for online play.
    You may want to replace Spiral with Recurring Insight. While it doesn't untap lands, it usually draws a large number of cards and doesn't refill your opponent's hand. The point of Spiral in combo decks like this is you generally win or get damn close immediately after casting it, so giving your opponent cards doesn't matter as much.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
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  11. #11
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    UPDATED SECOND POST with the commonly played combos.


    @trinket mage: need to find room, but I was considering Artificer's Intuition in Trinket's spot. Not sure yet. probably cut Static Orb for this slot

    @Pierce/Misstep - too narrow and is only good on turn 1 stopping accelerants.

    @Filigree Sages - I agree, contestors for this slot was: voltaic Constructs, SKill Borrower, Faerie Mechanist. I'm inclined to test Skill Borrower again, but Sages/Voltaic Constructs are nice when you draw hands/Arcum where you can setup that combo without going through multiple turns for another combo.

    @arzar: after Will ate my proxy Arcum I decided to get a foil one. He's hiding under my drawn proxy in a sleeve :D

    I never ever cast Time Spiral just to draw cards. I only cast it when I have the mana advantage to play out my hand and chain into my draws. I should give Recurring Insight a chance since I've seen how stupid it's been in our playgroup. But I doubt I'm cutting Time Spiral for Insight, I'll probably cut something else for Insight. Any ideas if I should play Timetwister? I used to run one in my old list 2-3 years back along with Diminishing Returns/Windfall and many other draw7s.

    The only reason why I cut a lot of the draw7s is because the old approach was based on drawing cards when I have mana advantage and my opponents locked under Smokestack/Winter Orb. When my opponents are under Winter Orb/smokestack, the draw7s become highly assymmetrical. The new list is really focused around Possessed Portal, which doesn't work well with the draw7s.
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    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post

    @arzar: after Will ate my proxy Arcum I decided to get a foil one. He's hiding under my drawn proxy in a sleeve :D

    Any ideas if I should play Timetwister?
    HAHAHAHA I forgot about that. If you have 'Twister, I don't see any reason not to play it.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Found some gems to play for this deck:

    Spellskite, Phyrexian Revoker.

    I also like Bribery pretty much in this deck. Don't know whether its broken enough, but most EDHs have game ending creatures that are worth getting for UU3.

    I play Gemstone Caverns over Ghost Quarter. I haven't found that Strip land to be very effective while Gemstone Caverns are often a nice tempo boost.

    I like Glen Elendra Archmage in this deck, helps a lot in 1v1 matches against control.

    Scarecrone hasn't been overwhelming, but a very solid addition as well.

    Out of all those cards I think Spellskite and Phyrexian Revoker are absolutely awesome in this deck and there is no reason not to play them. The rest is debatable.

  14. #14
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Good find on Spellskite. I didn't think about him for this deck. Revoker I'm leaning towards not playing but it could be great in more competitive metagames (blind lead Revoker into Necropotence/SDT).

    I used to play Glen Elendra and my friend convinced me to take it out. For the same reason I don't play Forbid/Hinder, I don't play Glen Elendra because she's too slow for a comboy deck like this deck (but also partly she was too slow in my metagame of combo EDH decks).

    Cards that are currently weak in my MD:
    1 Solemn Simulacrum (too slow)
    1 Static Orb (I almost never tutor this)
    1 Nevinryal's Disk (I almost never tutor this, and if I want Lattice + Forge combo, Oblivion Stone pops it without passing the turn. It's a relic of the old shennanigan combo and is win more :P)
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Vesuva (this sucks unless you're copying Workshop, but I have a foil one so I play it :P)

    Lightning Greaves should be the hexshroud Greaves because that way you can untap arcum with your untappers when he is equipped.

    For these slots, I think I'll go with:
    +1 Revoker/Spellskite (I think Revoker is better)
    +1 Skill Borrower (just tested her again, she's pretty nuts)
    +1 more card (not sure but I'm sure they'll print more awesome cards for this deck. I'll probably keep Nevinryal's Disk. It's still great when you EOT grab a disk, untap tutor for Forge and blow the board up. Otherwise this could be a Timetwister.)

    +2 Basic or Hall of Bandit Lord/Boseiju, still haven't made up my mind on these. I think Ghost quarter probably needs to go. You can't striplock with Ghost quarter in EDH if most decks are blue-based (high islands).

    Also, Buried Ruin is ages better than Academy Ruins, and it's one of the best utility lands for this deck!
    Decks that I care about:
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    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  15. #15
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    1 Nevinryal's Disk (I almost never tutor this, and if I want Lattice + Forge combo, Oblivion Stone pops it without passing the turn. It's a relic of the old shennanigan combo and is win more :P)
    I don't have an issue with anything said except this. Stone, while pops the same turn the fact that you have to sacrifice O Stone and then recur it, sucks. Also the fact that Disk destroys lands ontop of everything else when combined with Lattice is huge. Completely resetting your opponents might be win more in some cases, but I've run into games with Sharuum where it's necessary.
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Sims View Post
    I don't have an issue with anything said except this. Stone, while pops the same turn the fact that you have to sacrifice O Stone and then recur it, sucks. Also the fact that Disk destroys lands ontop of everything else when combined with Lattice is huge. Completely resetting your opponents might be win more in some cases, but I've run into games with Sharuum where it's necessary.
    Putting this in context: Metalwalker doesn't play this deck in casual/fun EDH games because everyone hates it and people where we play like whining. The only games it gets played in are against Oona, Sharum, Zur, Azami, Arcanis, etc. The forge/lattice/disk combo is WAY too slow against combo decks that often win turn 3-4.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I'm missing Ensnaring Bridge to stop creature-based decks early enough.
    Also, why no Fact or Fiction, Blue Suns Zenith/Stroke of Genius etc carddraws?
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Windux View Post
    I'm missing Ensnaring Bridge to stop creature-based decks early enough.
    Also, why no Fact or Fiction, Blue Suns Zenith/Stroke of Genius etc carddraws?
    Read my post above for the ensnaring bridge explanation. As for the others, they're either too slow or not bomby enough. This deck can assemble all of its combos without using any card-draw anyways.
    Lord of the Chalice

    Quote Originally Posted by Julian23 View Post
    Since playing against Spiral Tide provides a lot fun for both players is something only someone who's not had sex for quite a while could enjoy, I pull out GW Maverick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brainstorm Ape View Post
    Spikes are supposed to enjoy winning by leveraging their talents, but this card can't fetch the most SKILL INTENSIVE card in all of Magic?

    Clearly aimed at Modern plebs, not gonna be a pillar of our format.
    Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz

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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar View Post
    Putting this in context: Metalwalker doesn't play this deck in casual/fun EDH games because everyone hates it and people where we play like whining. The only games it gets played in are against Oona, Sharum, Zur, Azami, Arcanis, etc. The forge/lattice/disk combo is WAY too slow against combo decks that often win turn 3-4.
    Fair enough. I usually only have maybe 1 other combo deck in a pod at a time but sometimes 1 or more control decks, so the turn 3-4 natural combo doesn't always work and I have to take the game long, in those games being able to complete reset and then win is very valuable, but i can see if the game isn't lasting longer than a few turns typically that might not be the best.
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  20. #20

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Have you considered Phantasmal Image? Another great piece of disruption/utility.

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