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Thread: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

  1. #21

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    So I recently decided to take my collection of random cards and build an Arcum deck. I'm missing a lot of the competitive cards from yours but I'm still trying to improve mine (on a budget) for a semi competitive meta. My local scene isn't too threatening, but a few people are thinking about making some top tier decks (know one Teferi and Sharuum for sure). So I'd like suggestions on how to make mine more powerful while not breaking the bank.



    Lands: 31 total (I am realizing now this is a bit low.. seems like I still get enough lands, but probably should make more room)
    23 Island
    Cephalid Coliseum
    Ancient Tomb
    Buried Ruin
    Darksteel Citadel
    Halimar Depths
    Strip Mine
    Crystal Vein
    Seat of the Synod

    Blue stuff:

    Pseudo tutors:
    Trinker Mage
    Treasure Mage
    Artificer's Intuition
    Fabricate
    Fact of Fiction
    Flash of Insight
    Reshape

    Draw:
    Preordain
    Ponder
    Thoughtcast
    Thirst for Knowledge

    Win Cons:
    Brain Freeze (I like to storm, fairly uncounterable)
    Blue Sun's Zenith (Or use on myself. Kills whole table when infinite)

    also,
    Magus of the Future
    Hurkyl's Recall (just to hate on other strong artifact decks)
    Pemmin's Aura

    Artifacts:

    Accel (dudes):
    Silver Myr
    Alloy Myr
    Plague Myr
    Palladium Myr
    Solemn Simulacrum
    Filigree Sages
    Etherium Sculptor

    Accel (other):
    Gilded Lotus
    Mana Vault
    Grim Monolith
    Basalt Monolith
    Sol Ring
    Worn Powerstone
    Cloud Key
    Voltaic Key
    Extraplanar Lens
    Gauntlet of Power
    Caged Sun
    Mox Opal
    Mind Stone
    Thran Dynamo
    Lotus Petal

    Tools, Lockdown, and otherwise:

    Pentavus
    Triskelavus
    Thopter Assembly
    Myr Incubator

    (these are all supposed to give me board advantage under Possessed. Incubator is probably the strongest as it's tutorable)

    Control Creatures:

    Spellskite
    Steel Hellkite
    Phyrexian Revoker
    Duplicant

    Lockdown pieces:

    Feldon's Cane
    Tormod's Crypt
    Meekstone
    Ensnaring Bridge
    Possessed Portal
    Predator, Flagship
    Torpor Orb
    Spine of Ish Sah

    Combo:
    Sensei's Diving Top
    Rings of Brighthearth

    Other Good Stuff:
    Planar Portal
    Copper Gnomes
    Master Transmuter
    Kuldotha Forgemaster
    Shimmer Myr
    Mirrorworks
    Scarecrone
    Memory Jar
    Lightning Greaves
    Faerie Mechanist
    Junk Diver
    Mimic Vat

    Feedback much appreciated. Looking for ways to make it faster / more resilient in a fairly unpredictable multiplayer situation.

  2. #22
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Up lands to 36 at least.

    Replace Penim's Aura with Thousand-Year Elixir (I wouldn't run this but it's still better than Penim's Aura).

    For your list, if you are going on a budge, I'll focus the manabase to have as much islands, and play Caged Sun, Gauntlet of Power, Extraplanar Lens and untap effects. For such a list, go for Mycosyneth Lattice as your win condition with Winter Orb lock, and untap your lands with Unwinding Clock.

    Anyway guys, LED is unbanned. It's going to the list fo sho:

    Turn 1: Inkmoth/Blinkmoth/Factory + LED = Arcum, fuck your hand, you activate arcum next turn.
    Turn 1: Sol Ring/Sol-land/Mana Vault/Mana Crypt/2cmc Mana Myr + LED = Arcum.

    EDH RC is retarded. Necro is still legal, LED is unbanned before jank like Biorhythm and Coalition Victory. But who cares, makes this deck better.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  3. #23

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Yeah, I actually did end up putting in 36 lands... can't remember what I took out, I'll have to check when it's in front of me again. Mostly jank.

    You really think going for orb --> lattice --> clock is a better lockdown against casual decks than just possesed --> myr incubator in multiplayer? Especially with the tide effects and the artifact mana that I do have, cracking the incubator shouldn't be a problem and I can just let my 3-4 opponents suffocate while I'm pulling out rings / basalt / top. Orb is still an option I'm willing to include, but I think the win-con is still more brutal your way.

    Otherwise I probably need a solid backup plan. Thousand year looks good. I might also include both lightning greaves and swiftfoot boots, since giving him haste gives me a really good chance to just taking over the game right there.

  4. #24
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Updated opening list, will update more later tonight with the actual list (since I'm updating from memory for now).

    -1 Vesuva (this land is terrible)
    -1 Tectonic Edge (you win on turns 3-6 usually)
    -1 Mindslaver (I hardly tutor for it even if it's amazing, Possessed Portal is usually good enough by itself)
    -1 Solemn Simulacrum (could probably make it in but Spellskite/Revoker is better)
    -1 Static Orb (not relevant since you win faster for most of the time)

    +1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
    +1 LED (unbanned, EDH RC are n00bs but who cares, makes this deck better)
    +1 Spellskite (amazing not just at protecting Arcum)
    +1 Phyrexian Revoker
    +1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  5. #25

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I have tried quite a few EDH decks and arcum dagsson is definitely my favourite. I like how it's not the easiest deck to play against a competent opponent because every time your arcum untaps you have a choice to make out of like 20+ options and there can only be one correct decision

    Before reading this my version of the deck focused on locking down the opponent prison style
    The most satisfying game I played with it was against an azami opponent when I got winter orb out, along with icy manipulator, myr turbine etc. Eventually I just ground him out with lux cannon.
    The draw-the-whole-deck combo seems like it makes the deck much better, but in a direction I don't really like. I guess I want to win, so I'm going to try it.

    In my version I don't play alloy myr or palladium myr, because I thought that the only arcum accelerators worth playing should be 2 mana or less. However, I did play myr sire, and I think that this card is amazing. Every tinker you use to not get myr turbine is of course much myr value (<- This pun is a completely accidental typo that I just realised after checking my spelling) than wasting a turn on the turbine, so in this sense Myr Sire is comparable to Myr Retriever and Junk diver in that it provides free card advantage.

    However because you run so many artifact dorks I can see that for your build it may be unneeded.

    In my build I had lots of cards that seemed good on paper but in reality I never really used them
    Mind over Matter
    Planar Portal
    Memory Jar even
    So I want to use your build which has much more fast mana
    Mine had more counterspells and cantrips like ponder to smooth the draws out

    I really like your point about swiftfoot boots vs greaves, I never thought about that

    Is workshop good? The fact that you can't play arcum off it seems like it may give you some average draws.

    I found duplicant really meh because I couldn't search for it and for 6 mana it was often a bit too situational for that ability

    The cards in your deck that I don't really like are Revoker and Cloud Key
    Also why don't you play transmute artifact? I think its great for putting into play huge game-ending artifact creatures (sundering titan, BSC, especially while sacrificing spine) but then again, you don't play either of those cards.

    Anyway thanks for posting your list

  6. #26
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Thanks for the feedback and thoughts!

    I agree Arcum is actually pretty hard to play optimally. Even against casual players, your playouts can vary depending on what colors opponents are playing. Against casual players with a bunch of removal, it can be hard to just go all out on the Rings/Monolith/Top or Possessed Portal combo even if you drop Arcum early. Grabbing that Greaves could be costly because you might not have another artifact creature to sustain Arcum without losing turns. Against decks with sweepers/countermagic, you really need to decide when the best time is to run out Arcum.

    I don't like Lux Cannon for the deck. I tried it and it required untappers (which you do run) to be effective. It's usually faster to double Tinker Disk/Forge, or Spine of Ish-Shah + gilded Lotus etc, to deal with problematic permanents. I used to run Icy, and I should again (answer to Zur) but I'm incredibly tight on slots. I have been considering Icy again, but I also want to run Ensnaring Bridge (we have a Godo player) but I'm not sure what to cut as of now.

    Rings/Monolith/SDT combo is the best combo in the deck. Grabbing either of the combo piece isn't dead-weight, they are all amazing by themselves, and the combo is very very easily assembled in this deck than in other decks.

    I have cut Alloy Myr out (1 mana generator is weak). I still keep Palladium Myr in. The reason why I played both is still simple even if they don't fit into the 2cmc Myr accelerating into Arcum plan. This is because there are still situations where you can generate 3 mana but fail to find the 4th mana/land and be stuck with only 3-mana and never cast Arcum. I cut Alloy Myr because it wasn't giving enough value at 3cmc, but Palladium Myr is still a Worn Powerstone, which is still valuable in hard-casting other stuff.

    Myr Sire is alright, I would recommend running Epochrasite instead, which I used to run :) but right now every card in the list is doing something 'big' even if the creature sucks. I can test Myr Sire, but Toymaker (2cmc dude that has discard a card: Karn's animation ability) were all viable options in the past. I would prefer Scarecrone over Myr Sire but I cut the Scarecrone myself as well.

    The cards you listed here that you don't use:
    Mind Over Matter
    Planar Portal
    Memory Jar

    These are perhaps the most powerful cards in the deck. I don't use these cards much, but when you draw them or cast them, you are going to be many turns/cards ahead of your opponents. There are situations where you need to tutor for Memory Jar/Planar Portal (i.e. against attrition decks/games). When I have a ton of mana out, I will almost always tutor for a Jar since a draw7 with mana out means that I should most likely win the game. Mind Over Matter is insane, it untaps Arcum, taps down opponents and with Top, it's another win-condition. If you get to untap Gilded Lotus/Arcum 1-2 times in just 1 game, it has already pulled its weight.

    You don't need Workshop, but the main reason I decided to play Arcum was: I love artifacts and blue, and I want to play both Drain/FoW and Workshop, so Arcum became natural for my general :) I would say Workshop is needed even if it doesn't cast Arcum. The current list is still a decent deck if my general isn't in play, and Workshop allows a lot of things to be achieved without the general.

    Duplicant can't be tutored, but it's one of the top EDH removal out there, the fact that he's a creature is a big plus.

    I play Revoker because my meta is filled with fast decks/combo. A blind Revoker on Necropotence is critical, but I agree it's the weaker slot that's going in and out.

    I used to play Transmute, but I don't like the cost disadvantage. I might try it out again. The combos to this deck are really via Possessed Portal/Crucible/Myr Turbine and Basalt/Rings/SDT. I've been fine without Transmute artiact. I don't like playing BSC/Titan (used to play Titan with Master Transmuter) because ever since I streamlined the deck to go with a few victory paths, most of them aren't required. My meta is also heavily combo-based, so destroying lands don't mean too much, another reason why I stopped playing Winter Orb (I wrote a primer for Arcum based heavily on Winter Orb in the past on MTGS) because Winter Orb/Titan/Armageddon aren't too impressive when everyone is playing heavy mana accelerant. If your meta is more casual, Winter Orb/Titan is deadly but in those groups, you shouldn't be playing Arcum :P

    Hope this helps the discussion :)
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  7. #27

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Yeah I know lux cannon is not very good I just really like the card haha
    A really good answer to zur is mindslaver because obviously they have necropotence in their deck so you can just search it and make them pay 40 life but you probably already knew that.
    The thing that's really good about mindslaver is that it can just be the default go-to artifact if you really having a tough choice of what to search for
    This is especially the case if you need to stop opposing counterspells.
    It's always going to be a combination of Time Walk (almost, they still get a draw step sadface), Telepathy and Mana Short, which is great, but often it is so much more, like you play their fetchland and make them fail to find, you play their spell and then counter it with their own card, you make them attack into your blockers, all the tricks that make mindslaver amazing.

    I definitely think Sire is better than epochrasite but yeah I need to test your version first before I can really comment on much else

    cheers

  8. #28
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Deck is the nuts, I did some one-handed testing (trying to figure out if I want to build the deck), and I'm really impressed.

    What slots are more flex slots can I tune for my own metagame? You mentioned that you played Revoker for your own metagame.
    Delver enthusiast and avid practitioner of blind flipsmanship.

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  9. #29
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    To Socioloaf, Just one note:

    You have Extraplanar Lens in your deck. I personally use Snow-covered Islands instead of normal islands in order to not give more mana to opponents.

    The lenses increase mana of lands with same name (not type) as imprinted land. Keep that in mind.

    Rest of deck seems decently broken when build up around its general.
    Last edited by Offler; 11-08-2011 at 10:49 AM.

  10. #30
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Thanks Morbid :D

    I haven't played EDH in the past 2 months, but the deck was designed to fight a competitive cutthroat meta. It's still half a power-tier below Oona/Grim-long and Zur, but the main reason why I play Arcum is: I love Drain, I love Workshop, Arcum is 3U in casting cost i.e. it's one of the generals where you can very easily accelerate into consistently, and he also happens to have a tutoring effect v.s. something random, which helps in consistently winning games.

    To answer your question on flex slots, note that you are always going to go off with Rings/Monolith/SDT combo or Planar Portal/Crucible/Myr Turbine route. You cannot cut accelerants (especially the Myrs), you cannot cut the permissions suite and tutors. You cannot cut anymore artifact creatures because the list currently is still a little short of artifact creatures to consistently tutor with Arcum at times.

    Things that you can cut from the OP really is:
    1. Jace (he's nice to have but Tezz >>>> Jace, and you are not really winning with Tezz anyway)
    2. Magus of the Future/Cloud Key (if you don't feel the need to increase your chances of DRAWING into the SDT/Future-sight combo/Etherium Sculptor/Cloud Key)
    3. Sculpting Steel (it's a broken card in the deck but doesn't really consistently win you games. It's just good to copy opponent's sol rings, or your own broken stuff)
    4. Master Transmuter (nice to have and powerful at times, but you can cut it if you want, make sure you have enough creatures)
    5. Pithing Needle (I don't advice cutting this though, there's always a target)


    Everything else is pretty much uncuttable, especially the accelrants.

    I used to play a lot of Tide-effects in my initial list that I developed for competitive Arcum. The strategy was bent around Winter Orb so having a Candelabra (tutor'd by Arcum) with WOrb out and Gauntlet of Power/Extra-planar lens/High Tide/Palinchron was the old deck's way to win games under prison effect. It took over 3-5 turns to win the game as opposed to currently winning with Possessed Portal. The only issue I have with Winter Orb + Tide strategy is that it is terrible against competitive cutthroat decks that use a ton of artifact mana. Also, since Tolarian Academy was banned, the Tide effects + Winter Orb + Candelabra strategy was greatly weakened as a prison effect. It never guaranteed locks if your opponents drew artifact mana, but the Possessed Portal lock is a guaranteed lock because it stops them from drawing cards and finding outs while their entire board/hand is stripped away while you maintain yours with Crucible/Myr Turbine.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  11. #31

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I won a 4-man pod yesterday with a suboptimal build of this

    It was a pay-to-enter event so I was trying to do well but there were points based on sportsmanship and such so I had to not be too much of a dbag

    In the end I couldn't really do a lot because I got hated out really hard. (only blue player at the table, shit happens)

    I had to recur oblivion stone about 3 times to stop kamahl from overrunning me and Rubinia and Glissa kept colluding to steal arcum and then run glissa into it.
    I cast arcum for 10 mana and then it died again because I was forced to O stone.
    In the end I sculpting steeled Glissa's bonehoard and then killed everybody by equipping it to my inkmoth nexus.

    The prizes were good and the TO made it fun by giving out spot prizes based on magic trivia questions

    Im going to buy some more cards for this so I can hopefully finish it properly

    Edit: One card I just realised you don't have in your list is mouth of ronom
    It's a really strong land and it's easy to include, I recommend that you try it

  12. #32
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I haven't considered Mouth of Ronom. I did consider Scrying Sheets once but the games were ending too fast that it was in fact a bad land. Mouth is a good candidate (kills Zur) and I will probably include it. For now, I'm running a Koreanized deck so I'll pass on the mouth unless I'm entering a super competitive event :P

    Nice report, and glad you like the deck! Just curious, you were recurring OStone with Buried Ruins? I really dislike Academy Ruins after being spoiled with Buried Ruins. Drawing a card is critical and losing land-drops actually don't hurt as much when your whole deck is powered by artifact mana.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  13. #33

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by Metalwalker View Post
    I haven't considered Mouth of Ronom. I did consider Scrying Sheets once but the games were ending too fast that it was in fact a bad land. Mouth is a good candidate (kills Zur) and I will probably include it. For now, I'm running a Koreanized deck so I'll pass on the mouth unless I'm entering a super competitive event :P

    Nice report, and glad you like the deck! Just curious, you were recurring OStone with Buried Ruins? I really dislike Academy Ruins after being spoiled with Buried Ruins. Drawing a card is critical and losing land-drops actually don't hurt as much when your whole deck is powered by artifact mana.
    Buried Ruin is definitely the better card (in this)

    I know I had Academy Ruins in play at that time and I definitely used it once that game
    But I think I had Buried Ruin as well and used that too, because later in the game I dropped Crucible. That interaction isn't really gamebreaking but it's definitely very strong

    Both the cards are good and you aren't super reliant on blue sources so both can be easily included without too much trouble

    Are there scans of your deck anywhere? It sounds pretty awesome

  14. #34
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Awesome list Metalwalker! I am now looking at my next project.

    Something I noticed while testing this list is I find myself lacking U sources more often that I'd want to, specially for the UU cost cards. Looking at the manabase, I've identified 3 possible cuts:
    Ghost Quarter
    - 99% of EDH players will have basics in their deck, and you also said that it's weak and bound to get cut.
    Dust Bowl
    - I find it too slow specially considering you tend to already win before getting any use out of this.
    Rishadan Port
    - Though I love this land to death in my Death and Taxes deck, sadly it doesn't do as much in EDH where artifact mana, and ramp reign supreme.

    In their place I put in:
    An Island
    Saprazzan Skerry
    - Another 2 mana land doesn't hurt, and gives you another possible turn 2-3 Arcum.
    Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
    - Gives you another out if SDT is gone, as you can Mind Over Matter + this with infinite mana out to draw your deck -- from there, you can then play Academy Ruins and put cards back on top of your library so you won't deck out and just win from there. Slightly worse than Temple Bell combo but at least it only takes up a land drop in opening the possibility for said combo in this deck.

    I haven't touched on the rest of the deck yet, but I do agree that Ensnaring Bridge deserves a slot in the deck as well. Oh and I found a nice interaction between Time Spiral and Possessed Portal, wiping everybody's hand and effectively getting the concession from everybody else.

    Looking forward to the next update of your list!

  15. #35
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Nice find mrjumbo. I run Mikokoro in Karn and for some reason I didn't catch that you can draw your whole deck with it too!

    LOL at Time Spiral + Possessed Portal. Yeah my playgroup has Zur, and Bridge can single-handedly stop multiple generals (my playgroup has Kaalia and Godo as well).

    I haven't played in ages and I'm liqudating the ENGRISH foils in the deck so I'm sticking with just Korean cards and non-foils for consistency. Maybe I'll scan the entire deck :P

    I agree with cutting Ghost Quarter and Dust Bowl. I will probably still keep Port. Port is ridiculous because it allows you to cast Arcum safely in situations where you go first and you EOT port their land and lead off with Arcum. I've ran into situations where EOT port upkeep porting 2 of their lands and using artifact mana to accelerate out Arcum mana-drain free. Dust Bowl is not needed because if you're going for the crucible lock, you would be tutoring for Expedition Map for Strip Mine for most parts. I played both ports and Dust bowl because I had foil copies :P
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  16. #36

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Im going to gut boots for greaves because the 1 mana to equip is so much more relevant than the clock of omens interaction
    Admittedly it's like minamo as well as mind over matter etc
    But i think the haste is more important than the shroud and if you're at that stage of your combo you should just be able to put greaves onto something else

    Also i think petrified field belongs in the "Never use this so I'd rather just have a blue source" category

    Phyrexia's Core is an idea but the only thing to really do with it is sac spine of ish sah (and sculpting steel/metamorph copying spine) so it might not be worth it

    Im considering cutting magus of the future because I don't like having the redundancy with future sight
    I think magus is definitely the worse one because it dies to StP etc and people can treachery it
    Filigree sages is another card that hasn't been doing much for me lately

    Edit: Nvm keep magus the card is amazing
    Just played a game where I had etherium sculptor and cloud key in play
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 01-10-2012 at 12:45 AM.

  17. #37
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I'd definitely add Trinket Mage in the list just because at worst, he's a tutor for sol ring, and at best he's a tutor for the game-winning SDT (He also tutors for Pithing which could prove relevant). Now, if only there's an artifact creature that costs 1 or less that doesn't totally suck that we could put in to tutor for fodder when you need to. Maybe Myr Moonvessel? It's fine as fodder when you go for the Rings + Basalt combo as you need 2 mana for that to go off on the same turn.

    Here's the changes I've made:
    - Jace (Doesn't really do much in this deck despite it being in the top-3 best blue cards printed. At most, its 1-2 brainstorms before you win.)
    - Sculpting Steel (Generally copies ramp or fodder most of the time as there really is not much you can do with it unlike in Sharuum.)
    + Ensnaring Bridge (Helps a lot against fast decks before you can assemble a combo.)
    + Trinket Mage

    On the fence regarding:
    Petrified Field (But there are times when you need to reuse a manland as fodder.)
    Magus of the Future (UUU + being susceptible to removal = not that great.)
    Master Transmuter (Lack of bombs to put into play as most of the cheating is done thru Arcum.)

  18. #38

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by mrjumbo03 View Post
    I'd definitely add Trinket Mage in the list just because at worst, he's a tutor for sol ring, and at best he's a tutor for the game-winning SDT (He also tutors for Pithing which could prove relevant). Now, if only there's an artifact creature that costs 1 or less that doesn't totally suck that we could put in to tutor for fodder when you need to. Maybe Myr Moonvessel? It's fine as fodder when you go for the Rings + Basalt combo as you need 2 mana for that to go off on the same turn.

    Here's the changes I've made:
    - Jace (Doesn't really do much in this deck despite it being in the top-3 best blue cards printed. At most, its 1-2 brainstorms before you win.)
    - Sculpting Steel (Generally copies ramp or fodder most of the time as there really is not much you can do with it unlike in Sharuum.)
    + Ensnaring Bridge (Helps a lot against fast decks before you can assemble a combo.)
    + Trinket Mage

    On the fence regarding:
    Petrified Field (But there are times when you need to reuse a manland as fodder.)
    Magus of the Future (UUU + being susceptible to removal = not that great.)
    Master Transmuter (Lack of bombs to put into play as most of the cheating is done thru Arcum.)
    I've always played trinket mage, I didn't realise it wasn't on this list, haha.
    Speaking of myr moonvessel, the other day I was considering using Artificer's Intuition, because it finds all the amazing cards (Sol Ring, Crypt, Vault, Top) while discarding what you don't need, but I wasn't sure whether it was worth adding or not.
    If you need to trinket mage for fodder you can always go Trinket > Map > Factory. Admittedly it's more mana but it's not too bad of a move.

    I don't run jace either.
    I keep sculpting steel just because it has a lot of utility.
    I've never felt like I needed ensnaring bridge but it's probably the best anti-aggro card. I've also tested contagion engine at one point too because sometimes you want to kill an opponents board of creatures but in the end I took that out as well because it was just a bit too narrow.

    I still don't know if Filigree Sages is worth it
    If you go Power Artifact + Sages + Gilded Lotus then that's infinite
    But it doesn't work with Mana Vault because you need U to activate sages and if you have Grim Monolith or Basalt Monolith then you go infinite with power artifact anyway.
    I guess there's a bit of utility just having U - untap target artifact but I'd really rather try put power artifact on a monolith and sages with no monolith just seems really bad

    I took out master transmuter too.
    If you find yourself with big artifacts in your hand then I think it's better to play Scroll Rack or Brainstorm or TFK (I play all three of those).

    I'm keeping magus of the future for now just because the effect is so strong but i'm on the fence about it.

  19. #39
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Dropped Master Transmuter for Solemn Simulacrum. Master is 99% of the time just fodder for me, and I'd rather have that land and a card off the top for the same converted mana cost.

    Filigree Sages to me seems weak as well. 4 CMC does it for me, as well as a mediocre ability because of the cost.


    Looks good to me. It serves both as an accelerant and fodder. It's a slightly worse or better, (depending on how you look at it) Guardian Idol.



    Might deserve some look as tutorable hate that is so much better than what's available. However, it does hit Future Sight/Magus of The Future. But I'd say that's probably okay for a tutorable pseudo-LoTV, that's even castable.

  20. #40

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I play solemn too yeah
    I think new man is a bit worse than guardian idol, and I'm not sure if I'm going to play it or not.

    The problem with 3 mana fodders is that you can directly compare them to cathodion.

    This one is already almost certainly worse than Scuttlemutt which I'm pretty sure nobody was actually playing.

    Scuttlemutt
    2/2
    (3)
    Artifact Creature - Scarecrow
    T: Add 1 mana of any colour
    T: Target creature becomes colour(s) of your choice until eot

    Comparing it to alloy myr which some people are using
    -Worse because it's not a myr so can't find it with myr turbine (quite marginal but does happen)
    -Better because it can randomly save arcum from a doom blade or a terror (also probably going to happen in like 1 of 1000 games)

    Anyway the point is that scuttlemutt is better than this new card and nobody plays scuttlemutt.

    But I think we should get some cathodion / myr moonvessel discussion going because those cards don't seem too bad actually.

    This new cage thing, let's compare it to Relic of Progenitus which I think is the next best card for that slot.

    -Both have a slight effect on us (Buried Ruin / Academy Ruins / Crucible for Relic, Reshape/Transmute Artifact/Magus of Future/ Future Sight for the new card)
    -Relic of Progenitus can be cracked in response if they try to use a Naturalize-type spell on it and it will RFG their stuff to slow their game down. If the opponent Naturalizes this new card then they're free to do whatever they want.
    -This card shuts off from-the-deck effects like Birthing Pod, Green Sun Zenith, Chord of Calling, Natural Order, Oath of Druids, Bribery, Defense of the Heart, Lurking Predators, Pattern of Rebirth (some of those are really too slow against arcum but some can be quite scary eg Natural Order).
    -This provides a continuous lockdown unlike relic, ie your opponent can't make one threatening graveyard play, force you to crack it, then they make another graveyard play - it's affecting them until they get rid of it.
    -If you really don't need either card at all at least relic of progenitus is a cantrip.

    I don't play relic of progenitus and I don't think I would play this new card either.

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