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Thread: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

  1. #41
    (previously Metalwalker)
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Glad to see you two guys drooling over the deck, I haven't played in forever but I agree on the following cuts with Master/Filigree Sages. Trinket Mage needs to be in. I'm still debating between the mage or Artificer's Intuition (favoring Artificer because it is more powerful in general).

    Of course when Metalworker is fairly unbanned, he goes straight to this deck. Hope to be playing soon again, but mrjumbo has defoiled my entire deck :P

    Also to note, Scarecrone is actually pretty sick, but after I cut some of the more insane creatures e.g. Memnarch/Sundering Titan, he became weak. If you want to play Sundering Titan, Scarecrone is really good in the deck. Scuttlemutt is good too, except I prefer Alloy Myr because it looks cuter and fits in the Myr theme for the deck :P
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  2. #42

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    looking at building this deck, any changes you would make up to this point? also what changes would you make to make this list aimed at multiplayer?

  3. #43
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    @Metal, can't wait to get my hands on them. :)

    I'd say it's Trinket > Artificer's Intuition because you generally don't need to tutor that many times (specially with the limiting factor of mana cost 0 and 1 leaving you with few choices, most of which are just more acceleration) plus I don't like the discard that goes along with using it.

    I didn't even know that a card like Scuttlemutt exists, and I'll probably put it in over Filigree Sages, as I have never once used its untap ability. It's either Scuttlemutt or Faerie Mechanist to keep the artifact creature count. But I am thinking if I should just go ahead and put Rhystic Study over it in the list as that card is insane in EDH (specially in multiplayer). I think Rhystic is better than Mind's Eye in this deck because of its lower mana cost, and so you'll draw some cards off of it before having the chance to go off, as opposed to having the opportunity to draw cards when you should be going off (turns when Mind's Eye becomes active, you should probably be winning already). Downside is that's one less fodder for Arcum, but it does give you another blue card to pitch. I'd like to hear some of your thoughts.

    Also, I agree that they should unban Metalworker (it's not broken in this format) so I won't have a hard time thinking about what to put in as that immediately takes this slot.

  4. #44

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I cut Scarecrone and Memnarch and Sundering Titan because they're so iffy when you draw them and you don't have a reliable way to tutor them out.

    Artificer's Intuition seems more and more appealing to me
    It can find
    -Mana Acceleration (which are some of the best cards in the deck, undoubtedly)
    -Voltaic Key (Lots of utility or can be more mana accel)
    -Top (Basically a win condition)
    -Map (Fodder to sac, or buried ruin etc)
    -Needle (Handy)

    The good thing is that it helps you discard all the fat artifacts which you need to play but don't want to draw (Mycosynth Lattice, Darksteel Forge, Possessed Portal etc) and helps you get live accel and other utility cards.
    In that sense it really replaces the slot of Brainstorm or TFK.

    Both Mind's Eye and Rhystic are too slow I think
    If I want to draw cards then I basically want a second memory jar
    This means I want one of the following options
    -Dreamstone Hedron
    -Temple Bell (Doesn't seem too bad actually because then you get the alt-kill with mind over matter)
    -Courier's Capsule even

    The other thing you can do is just alter your combo a bit so that you get sculpting steel and actually do have a second memory jar.

    The cool thing about Couriers Capsule and Dreamstone Hedron (which I have discovered after playing with Mind Stone a lot) is that if you have the combo of infinite mana with Rings/Monolith but no way to draw your deck out you can copy their activated abilities basically for free for the extra cards. (Courier's Cap not entirely free though because of the U in the cost)

    They seem like good inclusions but I don't know what to cut for them, it's a very tight list.

  5. #45

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I currently play a Oona EDH Deck and want to swap to this. I love the thread and all the adjustments. The decks look sweet.

    My question is, Metalworker is the list on post #1 your current build with the recent adjustments you were talking about making.

  6. #46

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I'm gonna test out Mirran spy and Grand Architect just because I feel like a bit of variety

    Edit
    Mirran spy was pretty sexy.
    Couldn't get my hands on a grand architect unfortunately.
    Don't ask me if it's worth cutting anything for it because my IRL list is missing quite a few cards.

    Edit again
    Artificers Intuition is AMAAAAZING
    Testing online with complete list
    You need a Myr Moonvessel though if you want to play it

    Looking at considering Riddlesmith and the 4 mana enchantress one

    Edit for a 3rd time
    KombatKiwi shuffles library
    KombatKiwi draws 7 cards
    atx32 duplicates Karador, Ghost Chieftain
    KombatKiwi's life total is now 40 (+20)
    Karador, Ghost Chieftain is now 0/21
    <KombatKiwi> Thinking
    KombatKiwi plays Wasteland from Hand
    KombatKiwi taps Wasteland
    atx32's life total is now 40 (+20)
    KombatKiwi plays Sol Ring from Hand
    KombatKiwi taps Sol Ring
    KombatKiwi plays Voltaic Key from Hand
    KombatKiwi taps Voltaic Key
    <System> Player Lost

    Mirran Spy continues to be Cash Money
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 02-06-2012 at 06:28 PM.

  7. #47

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I was thinking about making an Arcum deck for awhile, and after I found this thread about a week ago, I put one together. It has performed absolutely fantastically, and much better than I thought it would (my list is a bit more budget than some of yours). I just wanted to say thanks for the awesome card ideas, the in depth explanation and analysis of your deck, and your thought process while playing. It has been a big help.

    The last thing I want to say is that Possessed Portal is absolutely the best card in the deck. A turn two or three Arcum followed with a Possessed Portal and Myr Turbine is practically a guaranteed win. So, thanks for that card idea specifically.

  8. #48

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by ARD View Post
    I was thinking about making an Arcum deck for awhile, and after I found this thread about a week ago, I put one together. It has performed absolutely fantastically, and much better than I thought it would (my list is a bit more budget than some of yours). I just wanted to say thanks for the awesome card ideas, the in depth explanation and analysis of your deck, and your thought process while playing. It has been a big help.

    The last thing I want to say is that Possessed Portal is absolutely the best card in the deck. A turn two or three Arcum followed with a Possessed Portal and Myr Turbine is practically a guaranteed win. So, thanks for that card idea specifically.
    I almost never use this but its great when you need it in clutch situations.

    Most of my games are won by
    Rings and monolith gives infi mana
    top draw my deck
    infi mana with key, turbine, rings is infinite myr tokens
    kill all their permanents with lattice disk forge
    if one of the lattice disk forge is in grave and you cant get it back then mindslavering the opponent is usually sufficient
    play possessed portal so the opponent cant draw a card and you cant deck out
    next turn swing with a million myr tokens

    I played blue sun for a short time until i realised that you dont need a dedicated finisher card, all the combo pieces can win by themselves.

    Its cool that you like the deck make sure you post if you have any ideas :-)

  9. #49

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    One card that I have been playing in the deck with a bit of success is Laboratory Maniac. Very frequently, it seems that Possessed Portal is the first card I tutor out (so long as I have a second creature to sac). Next comes Turbine, which gives me plenty of tutors. I love to go Rings after turbine, which gives double tokens and double tutor on the same turn, which I can use to pull out the Basalt Monolith and Top, giving me my infinite mana and infinite draw. I play the Maniac (or Mycosnyth Lattice first if I am needing blue mana), and then double draw with top again for the win. It has won me a couple of games now, and I have been quite happy with it.
    One more that I have been running is Hurkyl's Recall. Obviously when combined with the Lattice, it is a one-sided Upheaval.
    Other than that, it is a pretty standard Arcum list (minus Mana Crypt, Mana Drain, Force of Will, and Blinkmoth Nexus), so it runs very well. I have been thoroughly impressed with the deck so far, and if I can get my hands on the Mana Crypt, I will keep my hands crossed for the turn one Arcum (Island, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring).
    Does anybody else have any suggestions or ideas for the deck that they have been using?

  10. #50

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by ARD View Post
    One card that I have been playing in the deck with a bit of success is Laboratory Maniac. Very frequently, it seems that Possessed Portal is the first card I tutor out (so long as I have a second creature to sac). Next comes Turbine, which gives me plenty of tutors. I love to go Rings after turbine, which gives double tokens and double tutor on the same turn, which I can use to pull out the Basalt Monolith and Top, giving me my infinite mana and infinite draw. I play the Maniac (or Mycosnyth Lattice first if I am needing blue mana), and then double draw with top again for the win. It has won me a couple of games now, and I have been quite happy with it.
    One more that I have been running is Hurkyl's Recall. Obviously when combined with the Lattice, it is a one-sided Upheaval.
    Other than that, it is a pretty standard Arcum list (minus Mana Crypt, Mana Drain, Force of Will, and Blinkmoth Nexus), so it runs very well. I have been thoroughly impressed with the deck so far, and if I can get my hands on the Mana Crypt, I will keep my hands crossed for the turn one Arcum (Island, Mana Crypt, Sol Ring).
    Does anybody else have any suggestions or ideas for the deck that they have been using?
    The combo you describe doesnt work. One you have possessed portal in play you cant go off with top because possessed portal in play means you cant draw any cards.

    I wouldnt play lab maniac because it doesnt actually win you the game unless youve drawn your whole deck, at which point you should easily be able to win without it, as I describe. You would much rather have another card which helps you to go off in the first place.

    Hurkyls recall sounds pretty sweet though, I might give that a go.

  11. #51

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I guess I forgot to mention that I either sac the Possessed Portal to it's ability at the end of my opponent's turn, or I tutor out a Spine on the turn I go off.
    I have yet to actually play Hurkyl's Recall, but it seems like a good option. A good Mystical Tutor target with Lattice out at the very least.

  12. #52

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Question: Why aren't you running Cryptic Command in your list?

  13. #53
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by The Big Ragu View Post
    Question: Why aren't you running Cryptic Command in your list?
    I've played with the deck a couple of times with a few minor changes (around 4-5 cards but I do have a few more U sources than Metal's list) and I can say that the UUU in Cryptic Command's cost can be hard to get some times. Also, the deck doesn't really need much permission specially those that cost a lot. Games go, land Arcum and getting to activate him once puts you way ahead already. 2 turns with an active Arcum is game usually. So the only turn you really need your permission is when Arcum is still sick, so it's better for free counterspells or at worst those that cost 2, so you only need 6 mana the turn you play Arcum as opposed to 8 when it's Cryptic Command.

    One card I'm looking at right now is Argivian Restoration. What do you guys think? It's tutorable by Mystical Tutor, and at worst it can get you the fodder you just sacrificed to Arcum. Gives more value to Intuition, Artificer's Intuition, Memory Jar, Mind over Matter etc.

  14. #54

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by mrjumbo03 View Post
    I've played with the deck a couple of times with a few minor changes (around 4-5 cards but I do have a few more U sources than Metal's list) and I can say that the UUU in Cryptic Command's cost can be hard to get some times. Also, the deck doesn't really need much permission specially those that cost a lot. Games go, land Arcum and getting to activate him once puts you way ahead already. 2 turns with an active Arcum is game usually. So the only turn you really need your permission is when Arcum is still sick, so it's better for free counterspells or at worst those that cost 2, so you only need 6 mana the turn you play Arcum as opposed to 8 when it's Cryptic Command.

    One card I'm looking at right now is Argivian Restoration. What do you guys think? It's tutorable by Mystical Tutor, and at worst it can get you the fodder you just sacrificed to Arcum. Gives more value to Intuition, Artificer's Intuition, Memory Jar, Mind over Matter etc.
    Theres a lot of win in this post, everything he said about cryptic command is correct.
    I guess argivian restoration is the next card i need to try. A lot if the time when comboing off I need another buried ruin effect and it seems good at all stages of the game.

  15. #55

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Anyone have any updated lists for this deck up to this point, i haven't seen any chatter on this deck in a long while but i am still very much interested in it

    a little background ... my local card shop holds free edh tournaments with store credit as the prize and ive been dominating with my Oona deck which is full of infinite mana combos + Oona to exile all my opponents libraries for the win, they have since put into effect a house rule banning all "infinite combos" mana, life, damage, basically anything that "wins" you the game right on the spot... I have tried to have conversations with them regarding this like what defines an infinite combo yada yada.. and so i figure ill just build arcum and prison lock to win the games instead but still run the things to create infinite mana etc just not use them and I assume the deck will still run just fine?

    but anyway please please someone post a fully updated totally complete list (money no object)

  16. #56
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    @Sgfalex, the thing is, Arcum also wins through infinite stuff haha so it wouldn't be that much different with your Oona list, which I might say is half-a-tier stronger than Arcum already due to the numerous tutors and winning on the spot with Oona. The prison plan of Arcum (going for Possessed Portal) requires you to go get infinite mana as well so you can win through it, and this is something that your shop wouldn't like.

    My list (Almost same as Metalwalker's except for a few cards)
    [1 GENERAL]
    1 Arcum Dagsson

    [35 LAND]
    16 Island
    1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
    1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
    1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
    1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
    1 Mishra's Factory
    1 Blinkmoth Nexus
    1 Inkmoth Nexus
    1 Academy Ruins
    1 Buried Ruin
    1 Petrified Field
    1 Seat of the Synod
    1 Tolaria West
    1 Strip Mine
    1 Wasteland
    1 Rishadan Port
    1 Ancient Tomb
    1 City of Traitors
    1 Saprazzan Skerry
    1 Crystal Vein

    [23 ACCELERANT]
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Mox Opal
    1 Mox Diamond
    1 Mana Crypt
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Sol Ring
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Mind Stone
    1 Guardian Idol
    1 Grim Monolith
    1 Basalt Monolith
    1 Thran Dyanmo
    1 Gilded Lotus
    1 Cloud Key
    1 Etherium Sculptor
    1 Manakin
    1 Millikin
    1 Plague Myr
    1 Silver Myr
    1 Alloy Myr
    1 Palladium Myr
    1 Voltaic Key
    1 Clock of Omens

    [11 CARD ADVANTAGE]
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Expedition Map
    1 Myr Retriever
    1 Junk Diver
    1 Crucible of Worlds
    1 Rings of Brighthearth
    1 Solemn Simulacrum
    1 Memory Jar
    1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
    1 Myr Turbine
    1 Planar Portal

    [7 PRISON/OTHERS]
    1 Spellskite
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Possessed Portal
    1 Lightning Greaves
    1 Karn, Silver Golem
    1 Mycosynth Lattice
    1 Darksteel Forge

    [7 REMOVAL]
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Oblivion Stone
    1 Nevinryal's Disk
    1 Phyrexian Metamorph
    1 Duplicant
    1 Spine of Ish Sah

    [16 NON-ARTIFACT]
    1 Pact of Negation
    1 Muddle the Mixture
    1 Mana Drain
    1 Force of Will
    1 Misdirection
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Artificer's Intuition
    1 Trinket Mage
    1 Fabricate
    1 Intuition
    1 Power Artifact
    1 Mind over Matter
    1 Time Spiral
    1 Future Sight
    1 Magus of the Future
    1 Tezzeret the Seeker

    *You can go and change 5 islands into the 4 U fetches (no money yet to get foil copies) and a Workshop (I'll get this first before the 4 U fetches). On that note, I still need to find me a Foil Grim Monolith and Foil Misdirection as well.

    The list is really really well tuned already, and you probably won't be able to find better options. The deck might feel clunky at times when your opponent successfully kills Arcum consecutive times, and you're left with the underwhelming artifact creatures, but more often than not, if Arcum lives for even one turn, you'll probably win 90% of the time. I usually go, EOT tutor for Rings, my turn tutor, copy tutor for Basalt and SDT or Planar Portal (If Planar Portal, you proceed to tutor, copy tutor for Myr Turbine and Clock of Omens and you can tutor your deck from there - tap Myr Turbine to make 2 myrs via Rings, tap both myrs and copy untap ability to untap Planar Portal and Myr Turbine and so on). I have yet to lose in 1v1 games, but multiplayer is a struggle at times because people will really gang up on you for using a douchey general. But I'm sure you're used to that for using Oona already. I had a game where I go first turn Arcum, gets killed by doom blade, I go 2nd turn Arcum and it gets killed by phantasmal image by another player. Arcum is good though when there is another huge threat on the table as once you get to sneak Arcum, you can win from out of nowhere.

    On another note, if you're looking for a tier-1 general without using infinite combos, the only one I can think of is Bryant Cook's Godo deck (Had that before changing into Arcum).
    Last edited by mrjumbo03; 05-16-2012 at 04:56 AM.

  17. #57
    Just some dude.
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Loving the discussion here. I'm moving to the Akron area pretty soon and I've finally shaken all of the proxies out of the deck (minus a suspicious looking Workshop ), so I'll be in the middle of a pretty competitive EDH scene. I can't believe I missed Trinket Mage from the start either.

    I'm definitely not much of an EDH tweaker though, so I'll stick with Metalwalker's list and make some small changes here and there. Does anyone have experience with Stroke of Genius in this deck by the way? I actually cut the Jace, TMS, a while ago, and I went for a kill that gets instant results when you go the Rings ==> SDT + Monolith plan.
    Delver enthusiast and avid practitioner of blind flipsmanship.

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  18. #58
    (previously Metalwalker)
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    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    I've been taking a break from EDH (and MTG in general) for a few months, but Mark I would go with mrjumbo's list since he's had more playtesting and has added a lot of useful suggestions earlier.

    My list was really focused on hitting 3U to drop Arcum on turns 2-3. Even crap like Alloy Myr is being played because you can draw hands that can be a combination where Alloy Myr would in fact accelerate you (most people think 3cmc accelerant does not accelerate which is not true e.g. Workshop + Alloy Myr or Mana crypt + Island + Alloy Myr are all examples).

    But if your focus is not about hitting Arcum ASAP, then Trinket Mage and Artificer's Intuition are all busted cards in the slightly mid game. I didn't play TM and AI because I was going the pure speed build. But TM is invaluable. There are some subpar cards like Filigree Sages etc. Just play my or jumbo's list and tweak what you see fit for your metagame.

    Glad you take some interest in the deck :) It's quite unfair if your opponents can't counter or remove Arcum lol.
    Decks that I care about:
    Steel Stompy
    UWx Landstill
    Dreadstalker
    DDFT (10% practice)

    Mangara on MWS? You must be masochistic. -kiblast
    Quote Originally Posted by Gheizen64 View Post
    REB is a fantastic sideboard card against blue... in blue decks :/

  19. #59

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Has anybody considered cutting the lattice/disk/forge package?
    All of the pieces are terrible draws, it's rare to have a game where you actually tutor for this and none of the pieces really do anything if you combo with rings and top.
    I feel like the only reason it's in the deck is simply because it's a holdover of previous versions.

  20. #60

    Re: [EDH] Arcum Dagsson - Prison Tinkerer

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Has anybody considered cutting the lattice/disk/forge package?
    All of the pieces are terrible draws, it's rare to have a game where you actually tutor for this and none of the pieces really do anything if you combo with rings and top.
    I feel like the only reason it's in the deck is simply because it's a holdover of previous versions.


    Quote Originally Posted by mrjumbo03 View Post
    I've played with the deck a couple of times with a few minor changes (around 4-5 cards but I do have a few more U sources than Metal's list) and I can say that the UUU in Cryptic Command's cost can be hard to get some times. Also, the deck doesn't really need much permission specially those that cost a lot. Games go, land Arcum and getting to activate him once puts you way ahead already. 2 turns with an active Arcum is game usually. So the only turn you really need your permission is when Arcum is still sick, so it's better for free counterspells or at worst those that cost 2, so you only need 6 mana the turn you play Arcum as opposed to 8 when it's Cryptic Command.

    One card I'm looking at right now is Argivian Restoration. What do you guys think? It's tutorable by Mystical Tutor, and at worst it can get you the fodder you just sacrificed to Arcum. Gives more value to Intuition, Artificer's Intuition, Memory Jar, Mind over Matter etc.
    I've thought about what you've had to say, and I've come to agree with you. I no longer believe this deck really needs Cryptic Command.

    Anyways, I have a question for you all. Do you consider Memnarch, Sundering Titan, and Steel Hellkite to be win more cards? I've read a few people on (I think) Salvation saying that all you really need to finish the game once you have it in the bag is Karn. And I'm not sure whether I agree or disagree with that stance. Either way, I have no current designs to take any of those cards out, if only because I enjoy playing with them so much.
    Last edited by The Big Ragu; 04-20-2012 at 06:56 PM.

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