@sipes1946, Wanna discuss your list?
Sorry for the double post but just to kickstart the discussion here.
Thinking of adding Muzzio to my list.
For reference:
[1 GENERAL]
1 Arcum Dagsson
[35 LANDS]
13 Island
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Tolaria West
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Saprazzan Skerry
1 Crystal Vein
[34 ARTIFACTS]
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mox Opal
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mana Crypt
1 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Vault
1 Guardian Idol
1 Grim Monolith
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Thran Dynamo
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Voltaic Key
1 Clock of Omens
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Expedition Map
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Staff of Domination
1 Memory Jar
1 Myr Turbine
1 Planar Portal
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Null Brooch
1 Possessed Portal
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Nevinryal's Disk
1 Spine of Ish Sah
[16 CREATURES]
1 Manakin
1 Millikin
1 Plague Myr
1 Silver Myr
1 Scuttlemutt
1 Palladium Myr
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Myr Retriever
1 Junk Diver
1 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Karn, Silver Golem
1 Aphetto Alchemist
1 Trinket Mage
[14 NON-ARTIFACT]
1 Pact of Negation
1 Swan Song
1 Muddle the Mixture
1 Mana Drain
1 Force of Will
1 Misdirection
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Fabricate
1 Intuition
1 Artificer's Intuition
1 Power Artifact
1 Mind over Matter
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
Possible cuts: Mind Over Matter (UUUU is just hard, reason why I cut the Futuresight/Magus of FS), Null Brooch, Sculpting Steel
Possible additions: Muzzio, Thousand-Year Elixir, Myr Moonvessel, Torpor Orb
Plus I think I need more U spells to fuel FoW and MisD (I'm currently at 18).
sorry for the delay--I forgot I said I would post my list:
Commander
1x Arcum Dagsson
Artifact (30)
1x Basalt Monolith
1x Caged Sun
1x Clock of Omens
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Darksteel Forge
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Extraplanar Lens
1x Gauntlet of Power
1x Gilded Lotus
1x Grim Monolith
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mana Crypt
1x Mana Vault
1x Mycosynth Lattice
1x Myr Turbine
1x Nevinyrral's Disk
1x Planar Portal
1x Rings of Brighthearth
1x Sculpting Steel
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Sol Ring
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Staff of Domination
1x Static Orb
1x Thousand-Year Elixir
1x Thran Dynamo
1x Trading Post
1x Unwinding Clock
1x Vedalken Orrery
1x Voltaic Key
Land (32)
1x Academy Ruins
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Blinkmoth Nexus
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Flooded Strand
1x Hall of the Bandit Lord
1x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1x Mishra's Factory
1x Mishra's Workshop
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Riptide Laboratory
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Seat of the Synod
11x Snow-Covered Island
1x Strip Mine
1x Tolaria West
1x Vesuva
1x Wasteland
Sorcery (3)
1x All Is Dust
1x Fabricate
1x Transmute Artifact
Enchantment (2)
1x Copy Artifact
1x Power Artifact
Planeswalker (2)
1x Karn Liberated
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
Creature (19)
1x Consecrated Sphinx
1x Duplicant
1x Junk Diver
1x Karn, Silver Golem
1x Manakin
1x Master Transmuter
1x Millikin
1x Muzzio, Visionary Architect
1x Myr Retriever
1x Palladium Myr
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Scarecrone
1x Silver Myr
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Spellskite
1x Treasure Mage
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Wurmcoil Engine
Instant (11)
1x Blue Sun's Zenith
1x Capsize
1x Counterspell
1x Cryptic Command
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Forbid
1x Force of Will
1x Mana Drain
1x Muddle the Mixture
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Spell Crumple
Possible addition, but personally, unlikely for me.
unlikely for me either...
Nothing from Khans.
BUT we do get Metalworker as it gets unbanned, finally!
Rebuilt this deck again
Arcum Dagsson
--- Artifact Creatures ---
Myr Moonvessel
Phyrexian Revoker
Spellskite
Silver Myr
Plague Myr
Manakin
Millikin
Etherium Sculptor
Myr Retriever
Junk Diver
Metalworker
Palladium Myr
Lodestone Golem
Filigree Sages
Phyrexian Metamorph
Kuldotha Forgemaster
Steel Hellkite
--- Noncreature Artifacts ---
Mana Crypt
Mox Opal
Sol Ring
Mana Vault
Voltaic Key
Skullclamp
Pithing Needle
Sensei's Divining Top
Expedition Map
Genesis Chamber
Lightning Greaves
Scroll Rack
Grim Monolith
Basalt Monolith
Rings of Brighthearth
Staff of Domination
Crucible of Worlds
Thousand-Year Elixir
Sculpting Steel
Thran Dynamo
Nevinyrral's Disk
Gilded Lotus
Myr Turbine
Ring of Three Wishes
Memory Jar
Mycosynth Lattice
Mindslaver
Spine of Ish Sah
Possessed Portal
Darksteel Forge
--- Other Nonland Permanents ---
Copy Artifact
Power Artifact
Sage of Lat-Nam
Artificer's Intuition
Trinket Mage
Tezzeret the Seeker
--- Instants ---
Pact of Negation
Swan Song
Mana Drain
Thirst for Knowledge
Intuition
Force of Will
Misdirection
--- Sorceries ---
Reshape
Transmute Artifact
Fabricate
Thoughtcast
--- Lands ---
Mishra's Workshop
Mishra's Factory
Inkmoth Nexus
Blinkmoth Nexus
Wasteland
Strip Mine
Ancient Tomb
City of Traitors
Crystal Vein
Tolaria West
Seat of the Synod
Darksteel Citadel
Hall of the Bandit Lord
Minamo, School at Water's Edge
Phyrexia's Core
Buried Ruin
Academy Ruins
Misty Rainforest
Scalding Tarn
Polluted Delta
Flooded Strand
Cavern of Souls
13 Island
Some thoughts
- I think that Caged Sun / Gauntlet of Power / Extraplanar Lens are not good in decks with no ramp and such a small number of basics. The way that this deck (and most other Arcum decks) are built is that there are not a super high amount of 6+ drops and normally no mana sinks, there also aren't a very high number of card advantage spells so once you've curved up to your 6 drop you probably won't have anything to spend that extra mana on. This would be the case even if your manabase was all Islands but often you are only going to have 2-3 in play which means you're paying a huge premium for what is basically Gilded Lotus 2-3 or a coloured Worn Powerstone.
- I'm moving away from the 'glass cannon' build that I have posted previously, because in any games where that would work a slower win would also likely be successful, and this way you don't get blown out by counterspells and instant speed removal.
- A reflection of this change is the non-inclusion of Mox Diamond, Lotus Petal, and Lion's Eye Diamond, because you don't want to be exchanging cards for mana when facing an interactive opponent(s).
- Sage of Lat-Nam is something I want to try as a cheap repeatable source of card advantage. There are of course a bunch of Jalum Tome effects available but most of them are too expensive. This card works well with Junk Diver, Myr Retriever, Artifact (Man)Land + Crucible, Genesis Chamber, Myr Turbine, and Spine of Ish Sah. I don't think that this deck wants to go further on board the Goblin-Welder-Value-Train (with more stuff like Ichor Wellspring, Chromatic Star, Krark-Clan Ironworks) but it could be a reasonable option to make the deck more midrangey.
- I definitely think the deck needs a 1-drop artifact creature to find with Trinket Mage / Artificer's Intuition. There are various Pros and Cons for playing either Moonvessel/Memnite/Ornithopter/Shield Sphere/Heap Doll but I think you should play 1 of them. If you didn't want to play Trinket Mage or Artificer's Intuition then I wouldn't fault you for not playing an 0-1 drop but I think those cards are pretty good. (If someone can come up with a good use for Phyrexian Dreadnought that would be pretty cool, maybe if you're playing Torpor Orb).
- I agree with the Mind over Matter cut a few posts back, because it's difficult to cast and very win-more. I sadly shaved the Clock of Omens for the same reason, while it's a very fun card to use I just feel that it's probably overkill in most situations.
- Ring of Three Wishes over Planar Portal because I think that costing less mana is going to be relevant more often than having to search for 4+ cards.
Marginal cards:
- I put Filigree Sages in as another way to combo with Power Artifact, it works well with a few other things too (the fact that it's blue is kind of nice because as mentioned previously, trying to maintain a blue count for Force and Misdirection is surprisingly hard). You can always just tinker it away when you don't need it, but there is a lot of competition from other cards for that role (Faerie Mechanist/Solemn Simulacrum/Lore Broker/Master Transmuter/Duplicant/Karn) and for what it does it's quite expensive.
- Genesis Chamber is something to try, it's at least 1 Myr when Arcum hits the table and can be more depending on what else you cast, your opponents hopefully won't be able to make much use of any tokens that they get. Other options for a similar effect would be Myr Sire and Epochrasite.
- Intuition has been underwhelming in the past but it's great sometimes.
- Playing a bunch of copy-artifact effects definitely has diminishing returns, so do the tutors (Transmute/Reshape/Fabricate/TrinketMage), but it's hard to cut these because they're so flexible.
- Thoughtcast is just Thoughtcast, it's rarely bad but never exciting either.
- I don't have any experience playing Lodestone Golem in the deck but it seems fine
Cards I have considered or would consider
-Spheres (The of-resistance kind, possibly other vintage-playable shop pieces like Tangle Wire and Smokestack)
-Orbs
-The artifact creatures previously mentioned as well as Dross Scorpion and Skill Borrower (there are plenty of spicy artifact creatures all the way up the curve but most of them are various degrees of bad: Shimmer Myr, Myr Welder, Wurmcoil, Precursor Golem, Runed Servitor, Perilous Myr, Toymaker, Esperzoa, Myr Propagator, Neurok/Wizard Replica, Scarecrone, Masticores, Summoner's Egg / Clone Shell, Voltaic Construct, Sharding Sphinx, Triskelion, Memnarch, Platinum Angel / Emperion)
-More "go big" combo stuff like Mirrorworks, Clock of Omens, Knowledge Pool, Blightsteel Colossus (Unlikely)
-More disruption
-More card draw (FoF, Brainstorm)
-Chief Engineer / Grand Architect
-A piece of graveyard hate
-The 2 new 'Ingot with upside' (Commander's Sphere / Unstable Obelisk)
-Coercive Portal
Necro!
This one is going in for sure. It's basically an improved Myr Sire because it is tutorable by Trinket Mage, and for those who still run Artificer's Intuition. It also scales with more mana, plus it can grow itself to give more minions. Including this card also allows me to drop Myr Moonvessel as we finally get a tutorable fodder (costing 1 or less). Myr Moonvessel was just an okay card for me and I ran it just because of the added consistency of being able to tutor for fodder when I needed one.
I can pretty much agree with this.
Occasionally you want the Ornithopter/Moonvessel because you just need a dork and you're constrained on mana (or you want a dork from a Tezzeret minus) but that doesn't happen very often. The fact that it's a Myr sire that can chronomaton itself into more tokens and also can be searched as a trinket is really good.
Thopter Spy Network is another card from this set that I could potentially include. There is also the new Gargoyle Castle which still costs 5 to activate but makes 2 tokens instead of 1.
Last edited by kombatkiwi; 07-07-2015 at 09:16 PM.
Just won an insane game against Damia:
- He casts Damia.
- I untap crack Memory Jar into hardcast Possessed Portal: I choose both players can discard a free Memory Jar card. He now has 0 in hand, I have Palladium Myr and Artificer's Intuition.
- He swings with Damia and Pings me with Ugin (I have all colourless permanents and with Portal in play and him on 0 cards the ultimate doesn't do anything either).
- We both sac something irrelevant.
- I untap cast Artificer's Intuition (only 1 blue source in play), crack buried ruin for Junk Diver and cast it. End of turn sac junk diver return Kuldotha Forgemaster.
- He attacks, and pings me again, choosing not to exile the Artificer's Intuition with Ugin. I sac Voltaic Key and he sacs a land.
- I untap and activate Artificer's Intuition, discarding Palladium Myr and searching for new MVP Hangarback Walker. I tap out to cast it for X = 3. He asks what it does (we're playing on cockatrice and he obviously hasn't updated his sets yet).
- He concedes
Lost the next one but in the 3rd I had the utter nuts with:
Turn 1 Island + Mana Vault
Turn 2 Blinkmoth into Sol Ring into Greaves into Arcum, cast Mox Opal activate Blinkmoth GG
Palladium Myr feels a bit slow now, at 3 mana it's clearly the worst dork (especially now it can be compared to Metalworker, jesus that card is absurd)
In these games there were situations where I wanted an AEther Spellbomb but everything else seemed okay.
It's nothing exciting but will probably make it in.
Cockatrice: p00nm4n
I had some free time and decided to look over my Arcum list again. For those running both Force of Will and Misdirection, what's the best U count for the deck? I'm currently at 19 (including the 2 spells) and I'm debating if I should just drop the pitch spells and just run Counterspell and Negate in their place instead.
@Kombatkiwi, your last list had 20 U spells, including both pitch spells. Do you find this enough?
Cockatrice: p00nm4n
In the past I have been very unhappy with Force of Will for this reason, and I don't think that it's correct to run it or Misdirection.
Edit: Currently the only counterspell I am playing is Mana Drain and my list has gone back to be more in line with the stax-ish plan of older lists.
Less instants, more Defense Grid. I have also been quite impressed with Uba Mask as part of this plan.
Edit:
From my previous list, I am now of the opinion that Power Artifact, Staff of Domination, and Filigree Sages are all awful cards. Putting a bunch of narrow combo cards in your deck is not the way to win a game.
Edit:
Sea Gate Wreckage is really good.
With the new rule change you can now cast EE for a number greater than 1 if you have e.g. City of Brass, but I'm not sure if this is really strong enough. (The payoff on Etched Oracle seems pretty high as well but that would be going REALLY deep).
Last edited by kombatkiwi; 01-24-2016 at 10:53 AM.
New artifact themed block? Woop
The new land is definitely an auto include:
Inventor's Fair
Legendary Land
Metalcraft - At the beginning of your upkeep, gain 1 life
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool
Metalcraft - 4,{T}, sac; search your deck for an artifact and add it to your hand
A card that I think might be worth testing is:
Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
Legendary Artifact - Vehicle (5)
Flying
Whenever ~ ETB or attacks deal 3 damage to target creature or PW
Crew 3 (Tap creatures with total power 3 or more to turn it into a 6/5 creature until eot)
In a way it's like a 5 mana Inferno Titan that Arcum can both find and tinker away. I think that card would definitely be playable. The issue is of course not having 3 power on the battlefield can be a fairly common situation, in which case this is basically a bad version of Meteorite.
You can play March of the Machines to have it be 'on' all the time but that's too cute to really be any good.
Saheeli's Artistry
Sorcery (4UU)
Choose 1 or both
-Make a token copy of target artifact
-Make a token copy of target creature, and the token is also an artifact
The upside on this card is very high and 6 mana is the 'market rate' for a Metamorph + Sculpting Steel but I'm not sure if the card advantage makes up for having to pay 6 mana all in one go
Last one for now
Aetherworks Marvel
Legendary Artifact (4)
Whenever a permanent you control dies, you get an energy counter
{T}, Pay 6 energy counters: Look at the top 6 cards of your library and cast one of them without paying its mana cost. Put the rest on the bottom at random.
The payoff is quite high if you can get it to work, but there is a high degree of luck involved, sacrificing 6 permanents is pretty difficult, and there are many other 'value' cards in the 4-drop slot that many people are already not playing and are likely much better than this (Solemn, Smokestack etc).
The deck hasn't changed much
1 Arcum Dagsson
1 Trinket Mage
1 Silver Myr
1 Plague Myr
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Manakin
1 Millikin
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Junk Diver
1 Myr Retriever
1 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Hangarback Walker
1 Metalworker
1 Hedron Crawler
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Sol Ring
1 Voltaic Key
1 Sculpting Steel
1 Grim Monolith
1 Basalt Monolith
1 Memory Jar
1 Rings of Brighthearth
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mox Opal
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Possessed Portal
1 Myr Turbine
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Darksteel Forge
1 Expedition Map
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Skullclamp
1 Winter Orb
1 Mycosynth Lattice
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Pithing Needle
1 Trinisphere
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Defense Grid
1 Tangle Wire
1 Artificer's Intuition
1 Copy Artifact
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Transmute Artifact
1 Fabricate
1 Reshape
1 Mana Drain
11 Snow-Covered Island
1 Mishra's Workshop
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Tolaria West
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
1 Academy Ruins
1 Buried Ruin
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Phyrexia's Core
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
1 Crystal Vein
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Inventors' Fair
Before Kaladesh I felt that the above cards are 'locked in', they are clearly great and I don't want to cut them. (Inventors' Fair sneaks in as an auto include). This gives 11 open slots.
1. Whenever functional reprints of a card you are already playing are released it's often presents an interesting dilemma. If you decide that you don't want to play 2 copies of a certain effect are you sure that the first copy was good enough? In this case Workshop Assistant is the second Junk Diver (which is already the second Myr Retriever). In this case I do think you want to play all three because there is a positive interaction when you draw them in multiples (they can start looping each other back from the graveyard).
2. Guardian Idol is the worst 'Myr' but it's still good enough in my opinion.
3. I have been trying Null Rod lately which sounds like the dumbest thing ever but Sol Ring and Crypt really define the whole format, having an answer in games when they have them and you don't is significant. It also gives you access to the only (that I am aware of) 2-card game-ending Arcum combo (Null Rod + Lattice). The problem is that the combo isn't viable if you are behind on board (Arcum can win games through combat but your opponent(s) can't have anything more than a 1/1) so this card might just be not good enough.
4. Mindslaver randomly wins games, it's certainly castable but it does often suck when you draw it and I wouldn't fault you for not playing it.
5. Tormod's Crypt - I have never played this card in the past but I have often wanted a piece of GY hate and I think the 0 mana is relevant in spots where you are trying to tutor for it with Artificer's Intuition / Trinket Mage / Reshape etc
6. I'm still a fan of Smokestack, the biggest criticism of this card is that it is too slow, which is fair, but you can manage the downside much better than most other decks can and it combos well with the cards that you already want to be using to slow the game down (Orbs/Spheres).
The 5 remaining cards I'm not too sure on, they could be any of:
Thopter Spy Network
Skysovereign, Consul Flagship
Steel Hellkite
Master Transmuter
Perilous Myr
Serrated Biskelion
Palladium Myr
AEther Spellbomb
Staff of Nin
Sage of Lat-Nam
Duplicant
Karn Silver Golem
Everflowing Chalice
Mind Stone
Clock of Omens
Thran Dynamo
Dross Scorpion
Thoughtcast
Vedalken Engineer
Foundry Inspector
Metalwork Colossus
Genesis Chamber
Null Brooch
Pact of Negation
Solemn Simulacrum
Faerie Mechanist
Some of these suggestions are obviously more 'sensible' than others (ie. the floor on a Thoughtcast or a Spellbomb is much higher than something like Dross Scorption or Clock of Omens but they don't have the same explosive potential).
I would NOT play
- Sphere of the Suns/Extraplanar Lens/Gauntlet of Power/Gilded Lotus
- Power Artifact / Staff of Domination / Filigree Sages
- Mystical Tutor / Misdirection / Intuition / Force
- Mox Diamond / Lotus Petal / LED
- Planar Portal / Ring of 3 Wishes
- Blightsteel Colossus
- Swiftfoot Boots
- Ensnaring Bridge
- Vedalken Shackles (Great card but you don't have enough islands).
The new Boompile is actually pretty interesting. It has the same effect as disk (also kills PWs I guess) but comes in untapped, so you get 2 chances to activate the effect when disk would give you 1. Looking at it that way it only has a failure rate of 25% rather than 50%. If disk came into play untapped I probably wouldn't play Oblivion Stone at all but the unreliable nature of this new card means that I'm _probably_ still not going to play it either (it is close though).
Another interesting card from the new commander set is Faerie Artisans which has an extremely high power ceiling but suffers from being unreliable. Might be worth a try.
We hit 2 playables in the first 3 cards spoiled in Aether Revolt.
Cockatrice: p00nm4n
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)