[Deck] Manaless Ichorid

[datanaga]

Hi all,
today i purchased this complete deck in paper for about 85 USD (price was calculated without 3x nether shadow and 2x leyline of the void which I already have) deckbox, double sleeves and 20 zombie tokens included. Crazy price compared to my other legacy decks/staples:)

decklist:

mainboard:

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Shambling Shell
4 Nether Shadow
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Balustrade Spy
2 Unmask
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
1 Flamekin Zealot

sideboard:

4 Chancellor of the Annex
2 Ashen Rider
2 Leyline of the Void
2 Mishra´s Bauble
4 Sickening Shoal
1 Noxious Revival

Not sure if decklist above is optimal, because I have never played this archetype, but I have a lot of legacy experience.

I probably would prefer play Chancelors main (over Unmask) to fight Deathrite Shamans (jund and bug delver is popular in my meta right now). Im not sure if I like Unmask (on the draw) very much, because we want 8 cards in hand at the end of turn one, right? It means that we usually want to play it on turn two? It seems bit late to me, because on the draw, opponent can already play his one drop (deathrite) and two drop (thalia, rip post sb).

Btw I also already have some other free probably SB cards which are possible to use:

4 leyline of the void
4 faerie macabre
4 surgical extraction
4 force of will
4 contagion (sickening shoal seems better to me, because it can kill scavenging ooze with thoughtness bigger than 2)
4 tormods crypt

actually dont have any:
white leylines, mindbreak traps

Any recommendations are welcomed:)

Regards and sorry for my English Im not native speaker:)

[Mitalca]

The best advice I can give is to read the whole thread. At least the last pages
There you'll find what seems to be the optimal build with fow and blue shoal. Some put them in the main, some in the side
You should change the spys for Whirlpool rider
Mindbreak trap is recommended

Ps: whats your native language?

[Echelon]

There you'll find what seems to be the optimal build with fow and blue shoal.

Except that build never put up any respectable finish whatsoever where the Spy/Griselbrand-version has (on extremely rare occasion, lol).

I prefer the Spy-list with Chancellors. You don't have to care about your hand and eliminate the risk of turning the Rider into a blank b/c you emptied out your hand. It gives you the best chance for the combo finish (which can happen as early as turn 2).

[datanaga]

Thanks for advices I will study this thread and all decklists.

Ps: whats your native language?

Im from Prague / Czech Republic

[Mitalca]

I've won a 33 players tournament with it, not a lot but more than usual around here
Anyway, everyone can have his opinion. There was a consensus in the thread, thought

[Michael Keller]

Except that build never put up any respectable finish whatsoever where the Spy/Griselbrand-version has (on extremely rare occasion, lol).

I prefer the Spy-list with Chancellors. You don't have to care about your hand and eliminate the risk of turning the Rider into a blank b/c you emptied out your hand. It gives you the best chance for the combo finish (which can happen as early as turn 2).

I'd like to think placing 13th out of 173 people is a bit more than respectable.

That aside, pick your poison.

[d0nkey]

To each their own.

I love the unmask version. But make no mistake, this is a gimmick deck. You'll win when people are unprepared to fight dredge, and you'll lose when they are. Them's the breaks.

I play this deck when I'm really drunk or I don't feel like grinding out games locally. I wouldn't take this to a major event.

[Mitalca]

The idea behind the blue package was to reduce that fragility you mention.
Even so, If everyone is bringing a LOT of hate for the match, you'll loose. But any deck can be hated out
I'll take this to a major event, and I think it has better chances there, where everyone is bringing a more wide spectrum side

[jimmythegreek]

Dredge is an extremely powerful mechanic and when people are unprepared they lose, this is nothing new. Yes, if people are prepared in your local meta its gonna be tough to compete with decks packing cage or rip especially the ones with cantrips. In larger tournaments people are gonna eschew copies of hate to fight more popular archetypes, rather two to three copies rather than a possible four. Dredge is much more than a "niche" deck. It's a deck that punishes the unprepared and thrives in diverse metas. In the end I play dredge cuz it's just soo cool and different and I know I may lose to top-decked hate. I also understand I can win in absolutely dominating fashion while my opponent sits there with an empty hand completely helpless. For me playing this deck is a personal choice. I dredge, I don't brainstorm......and you'll never see me cast stoneforge mystic.

[Echelon]

The idea behind the blue package was to reduce that fragility you mention.

Unfortunately at the cost of the combo finish, which is the biggest thing pulling me to this deck. You just keep your beats on while threatening to go off.

[Shoggoth]

Unfortunately at the cost of the combo finish, which is the biggest thing pulling me to this deck. You just keep your beats on while threatening to go off.

Having played a blue build in competitive events for quite a while now, I can tell you that it is pretty rare that resolving a Dread Return on a Whirlpool Rider does not result in a kill that turn. Being able to interact with hate post board, as well as having game against faster combo decks, makes it a massively better deck than the "pray they have nothing" approach. That is a budget build, which is why it has been played a lot more, which is why a couple people have managed to get lucky enough to make decent finishes with it. That's really all there is to it.

[igri_is_a_bk]

Having played a blue build in competitive events for quite a while now, I can tell you that it is pretty rare that resolving a Dread Return on a Whirlpool Rider does not result in a kill that turn.

That's only true if you are always setting up for it, which sometimes means waiting beyond a turn that Griselbrand or Spy would have won the game. Any hand with Phantasmagorian + Nether Shadow* is going to require us to dump six cards on our opponent's EOT to use Shadow on our upkeep. That means we have three cards in hand for a turn two DR. We just can't afford to lose to our own deck ever when we aren't given many lines of play in the first place.

*Not considering Street Wraith in the hand because 3 card combo at that point.

[Shoggoth]

That's only true if you are always setting up for it, which sometimes means waiting beyond a turn that Griselbrand or Spy would have won the game. Any hand with Phantasmagorian + Nether Shadow* is going to require us to dump six cards on our opponent's EOT to use Shadow on our upkeep. That means we have three cards in hand for a turn two DR. We just can't afford to lose to our own deck ever when we aren't given many lines of play in the first place.

*Not considering Street Wraith in the hand because 3 card combo at that point.

How often are you Dread Returning on turn two, with any build of this deck? Requires quite the nut draw. Turn 3-4 is normal. Even worst case scenario, in terms of hand size, if you are Returning a Whirlpool Rider with three cards in hand, that really isn't even that bad. Protip: if one trigger doesn't get you to Flayer, you can usually just Return a Rider again, using Cabal Therapy to sac the one in play if you don't have another in the yard by that point. You have four Returns, and only need three for the "combo kill."

I am not denying that a blue build is slightly less efficient in game 1. However, that is well worth the massive increase in resiliency in post-board games.

[Mitalca]

I think that anyone who sees this as an all-in-combo deck is just not seeing the strongest side of the deck, its resiliency
Plus, T2 kill without wraith or probe means you need the god hand and the god dredge

[Echelon]

I think that anyone who sees this as an all-in-combo deck is just not seeing the strongest side of the deck, its resiliency

That would be your typical opponent, lol.

[Michael Keller]

The new primer is coming.

[meffeo]

The new primer is coming.

Go for it. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.

[Mr. Froggy]

I think that anyone who sees this as an all-in-combo deck is just not seeing the strongest side of the deck, its resiliency Plus, T2 kill without wraith or probe means you need the god hand and the god dredge

I love that the deck can go off when the opponent least expects it. But yeah, the resiliency of Manaless is awesome.

[easysantiago]

The new primer is coming.

Looking forward to it!

[Echelon]

The new primer is coming.

Awesome!