[Deck] Manaless Ichorid

[Doishy]

So Hollywood, now that you are back on the manaless train.....any chance of that shiny new primer? ;)

[Michael Keller]

I am definitely going to push ahead and finish it.

[Mr. Froggy]

Read the entire thread, it's a long shot but it's so, so worth it. It'll give you an idea how to play, what the pros and cons are as well.

Pros: less all in on Bridge from Below, more resilient to counters
Cons: less explosive than LED.

I find it's also just more resilient in all aspects. Just not as fast.

[Bookwizard]

I am a recent dredge convert, and have built the manaless dredge deck. I am reading every article and watching every video I can find on manaless dredge. I read Michael Keller's article in "Cutting Room Floor" as well. Thank you for this primer as well as the former article.

What I would like is a sideboarding guide that tells me what cards to remove when I bring in the sideboard cards. I don't want to ruin the main deck by replacing the wrong cards after game one.

The build I am starting with:

Creature [44]
4 Ichorid
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Shambling Shell
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Nether Shadow
4 Street Wraith
2 Flayer of the Hatebound
4 Dryad Arbor
3 Griselbrand

Instant [4]
3 Contagion
1 Sickening Shoal

Sorcery [8]
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy

Enchantment [4]
4 Bridge from Below

Sideboard [15]
1 Forest
3 Nature's Claim
3 Noxious Revival
2 Sickening Shoal
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Reverent Silence

I look forward to your reply.

Thank you,

Bookwizard

[Mr. Froggy]

Depending on the matchup you can sometimes remove Bridges or the Reanimation package, shave a Nether Shadow here and there.

What match ups do you want more info on?

[Bookwizard]

I am interested in a side boarding plan for all of the major Legacy decks. So any advice you can give will be of great help.

[jamie7keller]

Hi all, I posted this in the regular dredge thread by mistake. Thanks to Michael for pointing me here. I was frustrated at how little manaless stuff there was on that thread and now I know why :)

Anyway, I have a manaless dredge question. Here is my current list (sideboard is a bit of a mess):

Creature (44)
4x Balustrade Spy
4x Chancellor of the Annex
1x Flayer of the Hatebound
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
4x Golgari Thug
4x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
4x Nether Shadow
4x Phantasmagorian
3x Shambling Shell
4x Stinkweed Imp
4x Street Wraith

Sorcery (12)
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Dread Return
4x Gitaxian Probe

Enchantment (4)
4x Bridge from Below

Sideboard (15)
1x Ashen Rider
4x Faerie Macabre
2x Greater Mossdog
2x Mindbreak Trap
4x Noxious Revival
1x Sickening Shoal
1x Contagion

I am considering the transformative anti-hate sideboard of Hollywood, http://jupitergames.info/articles/20...edge-in-legacy (its a little dated, but the sideboard is interesting), as shown below:

4 Reverent Silence
3 Nature’s Claim
3 Noxious Revival
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Sickening Shoal
1 Forest
(4 dryad arbors in the main)

What do you all think? Also, I have considered a serra avatar or something similar, so that if i am stopped from winning after a spy combo (which entire library in graveyard) i don't automatically mill myself the next turn. I know cabal therapy should keep my win safe, but am I right to worry? Also, having that lets me drop the spy to an opponent's show and tell and win the next turn.

If the answer to all this is "go read the first 100 pages of this thread, we already covered all this," that's fine and I'll do that. :)

Edit: I just backed up a few pages and I see the blue discussion, and think it is fascinating. I will not be going that route, as saving $$$ on Force of Will is a big part of what started my interest in manaless dredge. I have two decks now, this and elves, to give me a little ability to swap decks for different metagames (though both decks are good against FoW and bad against turn one combo wins)

[Daize]

What I did just this other tourney is going budget FoW --> Disrupting Shoal. You got your 1 mana in Gitaxian probe, and your 2 mana in Narcomoeba & Whirlpool Rider, would you choose to play that one. Budget!

[igri_is_a_bk]

We've tried to make Reverent Silence work, but the truth is that it never won me a game. For it to work, you need to let RiP hit play and that in itself is the problem. Assuming you've kept a full hand, you will be down to six cards after you've played RS + Arbor/forest so you're still two turns from discard (unless you also have Unmask). After that, you're at least another turn from winning if you dredge perfectly and have some combination of Wraith/Probe. It's just all too unlikely. What's more likely is that you've been beat down by a couple of arbitrary dorks in those five or so turns. Additionally, you can't play Balustrade Spy.

I'm not completely sold that you want only Spy as a target, but you definitely want a nonzero number in your list. Some number of Griselbrand may be correct too. It's hard to tell because I win every game that I resolve DR, but there are benefits to each creature. Like, Spy is unconditionally going to flip your entire library, while Griselbrand can do the same but you need to be at least 7 obviously. On the other hand, the fact Griselbrand can leave some library remaining is a good thing if you were unable to Therapy, Probe or Unmask them before DR.

Nature's Claim on Grafdigger's Cage works in theory. I gave up on it before it actually happened, but it does seem more useful than RS as Cage doesn't reset your progress. I'd still rather have FoW and Shoal though.

As for the Serra Avatar/Progenitus slot, I think it's worth it. Especially if you have FoW/Shoal in your sb because Progenitus gets you to 17 blue cards without Whirlpool Rider.

[Daize]

Alright, Hollywood - any updates? :-)

[Mr. Froggy]

Just bought my first Beta Nether Shadow :D so sexy!

[P-E]

welldone 3 more to find ^^

[Mr. Froggy]

welldone 3 more to find ^^

Yeah I thought of the sane thing.. it's gonna be a heck of a hunt!

[jimmythegreek]

Yeah I thought of the sane thing.. it's gonna be a heck of a hunt!

Uuuummmm. eBay? Don't believe the four-way mis-cut nether shadows though.......All hand cut from sheats.

[P-E]

Congrats Juha !!
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=73416

[Stomping Grounds G&H]

Can someone explain the Blightsteel Colossus in Juha's maindeck?

[ahg113]

Can someone explain the Blightsteel Colossus in Juha's maindeck?

It allows for an extra turn after the Spy goes off (and potentially others pending on hand size and active Phanta's). When spy flips the library, the replacement trigger on Blightsteel puts it back in the library, so you don't effectively deck yourself. This is because either you lack an alpha strike/combo after flipping, or you put in a spy off an opponents Show'n'Tell, Hypergenesis, or Eureka.

Other creatures that do the same
Serra Avatar
Progenitus
World Spine Wurm

[Daize]

Oh wow, just the leyline against hate (that'd be, Tormod's crypt, nothing else really). Sickening Shoal works against Teeg, but not against Thalia... seems like a meta call. Are there any match descriptions available?

[Michael Keller]

Oh wow, just the leyline against hate (that'd be, Tormod's crypt, nothing else really). Sickening Shoal works against Teeg, but not against Thalia... seems like a meta call. Are there any match descriptions available?

Sickening Shoal does not work against Teeg.

[Daize]

Right, wasn't fully awake I guess. Thanks.