I do have a question that is on topic. I'm not sure if it has been discussed already, but I have flirted with the idea of street wraith + call to the netherworld to have even more explosive openings. Has this been discussed/tested before? Is there any consensus on the Call to the Netherworld or is this card still untested? Same goes for Basking Rootwalla.
Call is cool. I've been trying to work it into the list, but I'm not so sure it's any better than removal which allows you to escape from Deathrite Shaman game one.Originally Posted by bruizar
It's kind of like Probe where it accelerates but isn't really necessary.
Hey Holliwood, thx for all your works.
I have seen games agains Hive Mind. Dredge player was a bit unlucky but what do you means put Probe in sb for run faster against combodeck ? I image something like Probe or the path to Unmask.
Probe is much better than Call to the Netherworld, you can use it only with Phantasmagorian.
Sorry hollywood. During the deck tech it completely slipped my mind to give u credit where its due and as soon it was over i remebered i wanted to do it and beat myself up over it. I do appreciate the pm and advice. Don't ever stop improving the deck.
As far as the tournament goes i did get a little unlucky in a matchup vs jund with him topdecking a case bolt to kill me the turn before he dies as well as having to play against 2 other combo decks. Ended up 3-4 drop but i would definatly play the deck again as its great for the current metagame.
No worries, dude. What did you wind up losing to at the event? I noticed you started hot, then kind of slipped. What happened towards the end of your tournament experience?
I'm struggling with this myself. I love this deck and want to play it but my meta is dominated by Rip, Ooze and Shaman right now. I seem to just get my teeth smashed in against those decks. If I'm lucky I see a single deck that doesn't have Rip, Ooze or Shaman. Throw in the random Bojuka Bog and it makes for a long night. What am I missing?
Currently Playing:
Dredge / Hive Mind / Belcher / Sneak-Show
HayWire Motorsports - Tacoma, Washington
GoFundMe
Well i lost rd 4 on camera to the high tide deck. Coulda won game 1 if i hit griselbrand but didnt. Game 3 was also pretty slow and i didnt hit any therapys.
Rd 5 i played vs jund and my match went pretty well according to scrpit with me stabilizing against a goyf and treetop with nether shadows and a bridge at 2 life. The turn before he dies he rips his 3rd bolt of the game to kill me.
Rd 6 i played against a uw miracles/stoneblade deck that didnt have rest in peace even after board. Game 1 i smashed not close as it should be. Game 2 he slowed me down with an early relic and then a few turns after i rebuilt he hit an entreat for 4 and i couldnt race it. Game 3 im slow to dredge with thugs but am doing ok until he gets batterskull in play. Normaly u can race it but i hit 3 bridges off a single dredge with he got rid of by returning the batterskull. From that point on i couldnt race it.
Rd 7 i played against hive mind and he just comboed me before i could.
The matches i won were against 2 BUG decks and a show and tell omniscience deck.
It all comes down to the state of Leyline of the Void in the metagame right now, with Deathrite Shaman keeping the format honest I think the value of MD Dryad Arbor, 2 Fetchlands, 1 Forest, Reverent Silence and Nature's Claim are really debatable right now and Manaless Dredge can just concentrate on addressing Deathrite Shaman with Sickening Shoal and Contagion and then use the SB space for cards that accelerate the deck in close match ups like Unmask, Gitaxian Probe and Chancellor of the Annex etc. Rest in Peace is best dealt with Unmask IMO, and Dryad Arbor aside, I think the deck is dedicating too many SB slots for a rather drastic SB card that isn't seeing much play - and if it is, then you shouldn't be playing this deck in the first place IMO.
As much as I love Unmask I don't think that it deals good with RiP. Opponent goes Land, Go, you draw to 8 and, what then? DDD-Plan or casting Unmask, which delays you 2 further turns? Your opponents single land enables turn2 Rip as well as Enlightened Turor for RiP. Maybe we should speed up our Deck (Probes) while slowing our opp's (Chancellor). But even that are up to 8 Sb-Slots. Fuck, this might be the right time to Maindeck Chancellors (again). ;)
It's a combination of watching the opponent mulligan for his outs and judiciously using Unmask vs. decks that can't present a clock, you shouldn't feel rushed to DDD vs Miracles IMO. Regardless, I just feel there are certain cards we should be willing to take a hit on in order to improve our match ups vs decks that have a minor strategic superiority over us, stuff like High Tide and Show&Tell etc. If Deathrite Shaman has done anything good for us, its made people feel overly safe vs graveyard strategies and kicked Reanimator to the curb until it starts to make use of stuff like Lighning Axe.
Based on the Hollywood list i have replace 3 Noxius and 1 Shoal with set of Probe in sb.
Ill try it soon.
Manaless Dredge
//Main
[4x] Golgari Grave-Troll
[4x] Stinkweed Imp
[4x] Golgari Thug
[3x] Shambling Shell
[4x] Ichorid
[4x] Nether Shadow
[4x] Street Wraith
[4x] Cabal Therapy
[4x] Phantasmagorian
[3x] Contagion
[1x] Sickening Shoal
[4x] Narcomoeba
[4x] Bridge from Below
[4x] Dread Return
[3x] Griselbrand
[2x] Flayer of the Hatebound
[4x] Dryad Arbor
//Sideboard
[4x] Reverent Silence
[4x] Gitaxian Probe
[2x] Nature's Claim
[2x] Verdant Catacombs
[1x] Forest
[1x] Contagion
[1x] Sickening Shoal
I've been puttin a few Probe's into, and then out of, the main for the last few months.
I'm liking 2 or 3 in the side, I still can't decide if I should just put four in the main to accelerate out of DRS range - even thought Hollywood's list is more resilient.
Additional speed is very nice, it's gotten me quite a few turn2 wins, or helped me to draw a card whilst hoping for a Claim or a Reverent, so I have to agree.
I've read a few thoughts on Probe in this thread, one being that Probe is open to counter.
But if it provokes a counter, it could save that counter hitting anything more important.
I just don't think Probe is gonna provoke counter very often at all (unless thier deck is counter heavy with Counterbalance etc.), even against a tight player familiar with Manaless, as they'd be keeping their counter for Dread Return or Therapies, or our answers wouldn't they?
Cos if they do counter Probe, isn't that a win for us anyway?
I personally have run 4 in my manaless at times and none. When i have run 4 of them i have had absurdly broken starts and have often times won turn 2-3 although I have also had occasions where if i had removal instead i would have won versus other decks such as MUD and maverick.
I thought about that. If our weakness is being outplayed by some win condition (early Emrakul, combo) or being hated under pressure (RIP, ooze, shaman), and Unmask should help more than probe in these cases.
yeah, back to topic:
Maybe you're right. I simply have to test Unmask and compare it to my current build (4 Chancellor main and Probes side). Just have to see how it works out.
I probably shouldn't be telling you this since we both play locally in the same areas, and when I'm playing High Tide I don't want to go against dredge lol, but right now the regular's that play Maverick (Ooze) are not showing up as such, even around here where we had an Open that had Maverick as the most represented in comparison to others during that specific tournament (Though RUG was just as common in the room according to the "too much information" article for that event) just 6 months ago, where I swear more people own Maverick cards in this area than the average rest of the country, even here Maverick is much less common lately, not to mention that only that "one guy" runs Rest in Peace main deck, in which it's the combo, and that player isn't here half the time, while the other half he's not playing "that deck" anyhow, in either case, for our local metagames it's actually not a bad time to play the deck right now, and if things remain so, you could even consider it for the Open in April, since that's the next one for this area. ^.^
In either case, it means if I still had my dredge deck, I'd consider picking it up again and playing it locally a few times right now, the deck is so much fun to pull off.
Primary legacy deck High Tide primer
Devil's advocate kicking in, but the same thing could be said to Hollywood, who clearly made a post without provocation intended to incite a flame war and/or drive attention to himself, without actually knowing the truth of the situation (ie, he did not know that Rausch forgetting to mention him was unintentional and not malicious, but still posted an inflammatory post anyway).
OT: I've been working on MLD for some time now, and have been testing with Hollywood's deck. For me it feels a little awkward having MB Dryad Arbor, since it feels so much like a card that I'd want to side in. Personally, I would rather throw the 4 DA in the side (replacing noxius revival and the forest), and throwing in either 4 Probes or some combination of cards to fill out the non-4-ofs in the MB (ie, another shoal + another Griselbrand +2 Flayer).
Subtlety is not my forte.
Truth is always relative and never absolute. I hope for this thread that this stupid discussion will be cleared via PN ( or, worst case, by moderators).
Dryad Arbor fulfills double duty: It is another free creature for Therapies or Returns as well as an enabler for Nether Shadow. I think this is a great argument for having it main without costing you SB-Slots. (I know i advocated for running Probes SB, but that was just a spontaneous brainstorming).
So, I'm by no means a "Manaless Dredge Pro" or what ever. But I'm going to throw my $0.43 ($0.02 after inflation, government bailout and current fiscal cliff remedies) regarding Dryad Arbor MD. I think it's a must. I've had games where that single card meant the difference. Being that extra Cabal Therapy outlet or that 3rd critter for that Dread Return is HUGE (I almost used 30 point font there, just for Hollywood.). Often times, it helps huge for those times where you want to stack another critter on top of Nether Shadow via that Phantasmagorian to set up those combo turns too. I really couldn't see running without it just based on those scenarios alone. Add to that, the reality that most opponents don't see it coming or forget about the fact that it is a creature, not just a land, makes it too good and too fun to remove. The look on an opponents face when you only returned a single Nether Shadow and a single Ichorid and they look all smug because you don't have that 3rd critter, then you play "a land" and use that Dryad Arbor to flash back a Dread Return into Griselbrand is just too cool.
Currently Playing:
Dredge / Hive Mind / Belcher / Sneak-Show
HayWire Motorsports - Tacoma, Washington
GoFundMe
Not to mention dryad arbor helps with thalia and loadstone golem
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