Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

  1. #1

    9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    After the June 26th Legacy event at Knightware, where I scrubbed out with Dredge, I set out looking for another combo deck that I could sling for the next large event in August. Thankfully, my good friend and fellow combo enthusiast Ben Perry handed me the list he was using for that event which he piloted to a third place finish (his tournament report can be found here). The list was an old combo deck that had been given new life through a more efficient kill condition (discovered by Patrick Chapin) and Ben’s own testing. Normally, I’m not one for carbon copying a list, but I couldn’t find much fault in the 75 Ben gave me. I made a slight tweak to the manabase (adding a Tundra over a 3rd Island), then sleeved up for the tournament.

    Four Horsemen

    Maindeck

    3x Narcomoeba
    1x Sharuum the Hegemon
    1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

    4x Mesmeric Orb
    4x Basalt Monolith
    4x Force of Will
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Gitaxian Probe
    4x Ponder
    3x Thoughtseize
    3x Cabal Therapy
    3x Preordain
    3x Mental Misstep
    1x Dread Return
    1x Blasting Station

    4x Polluted Delta
    4x Underground Sea
    2x Ancient Tomb
    2x Island
    1x Swamp
    1x Tundra
    1x Scalding Tarn
    1x Misty Rainforest
    1x Flooded Strand

    Sideboard

    4x Show and Tell
    3x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    3x Tormod’s Crypt
    2x Echoing Truth
    2x Extirpate
    1x Mental Misstep

    The deck is based around the combination of Mesmeric Orb and Basalt Monolith. You tap Basalt Monolith to generate three mana, then use the mana it generates to untap itself. By doing this, you can tap and untap the Monolith as many times as you want. With Mesmeric Orb in play, this becomes milling yourself for as many cards as you like, allowing you to get Narcomoebas into play (which you can then sacrifice in order to flashback milled Cabal Therapies to pick apart your opponent’s hand). Eventually, you’ll hit an Emrakul, reshuffling your graveyard back into your deck. From there, you can continue the loop until you get 3 Narcomoebas in play, giving you the fodder necessary to flashback a Dread Return targeting Sharuum the Hegemon, who will then bring back Blasting Station with her “enters the battlefield” ability. With Blasting Station in play, you then keep milling your deck with the Mesmeric Orb-Basalt Monolith combo, repeatedly sacrificing your Narcomoebas to the Station and recycling them with Emrakul, earning 0-3 points of damage to your opponent per loop. Repeat this until they’re dead. The Singleton Tundra is there just in case you need to cast Sharuum (I don’t expect this will come up often, but it’s a good option to have).

    For post board games, you have two options: Option 1 is to side out the combo entirely for the Show and Tell package (typically leaving Tormod’s Crypts in the board). You’ll typically do this after winning game one, in order to blank any artifact/grave hate they bring in for you. The second option is the hybrid combo option; boarding out one copy of the Monolith, one copy of the Orb, and some filter cards for three Show and Tells and two Emrakuls. This allows you to have multiple plans of attack, and is a good back up plan just in case you either lose game one or lose game two.

    A few tips on playing the deck:

    - Typically keep hands with Gitaxian Probe and Cabal Therapy. Those two cards are just unfair together.

    - If you have Blasting Station, Sharuum, or Dread Return in your hand it is pretty much like having a mulligan. It had better be a sick hand for you to keep it. This is not true for Narcomoebas however, since they can chump block and are Therapy fodder.

    - Mulligan Aggressively! I know this is a no brainer when you play a combo deck, but there are times where you have do nothing hands and you really need to ditch them for hands with action. Remember, as long as you have one of the combo pieces you are literally just one draw away from a win.

    - A neat trick you can do (and my favorite play with the deck) is cast Brainstorm when you have Mesmeric Orb out. You just tap another land in addition to the one you tap to pay for Brainstorm and you mill the cards you put on top away during your next Upkeep Step.

    - If you think they have a Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile in their hand while comboing off, wait until you have a Cabal Therapy in your graveyard and just one Narcomoeba. You can then sac it to the Therapy before they get a chance to Swords/Path it away. If you have two Narcos before you hit a Therapy, keep milling until you hit Emrakul to reshuffle.

    - Don’t worry about time. If your opponent wants to make you play through the entire process, it’s better for you. You combo off in one turn, so if you go to Turns you can still take as long as you want and still be fine.

    - Sideboarding the combo out for the Show and Tell combo should go like this:

    -4x Mesmeric Orb
    -4x Basalt Monolith
    -1x Sharuum
    -1x Dread Return
    -1x Blasting Station
    -1x Narcomoeba (optional)

    +4x Show and Tell
    +3x Emrakul
    +2x Echoing Truth
    +1x Mental Misstep
    +1x/2x Extirpate (depending on if you choose to board out the Narcomoeba or not)

    Having never actually played the deck except on Magic Workstation, I walked into Knightware thinking it would be a good test run for the larger events I’ll be competing in later this year. I met up with Ben Perry, Liam Kane, and Alexander Kwan and we shot the shit for a little bit until it was time for round one to start.

    Round 1: Will Strickland with NO Elves.

    If I had been paying any attention, I would have realized that Will had Top 8ed this year’s SGC LA event with the exact same deck. I wasn’t though, and he put me on Dredge due to him accidentally seeing a Narcomoeba at the bottom of my deck while shuffling. His reaction to seeing it made me believe that whatever he was playing was soft to combo, so I was feeling pretty comfortable when I won the die roll and kept my opening seven. I used a one mana filtering spell and he played a Fyndhorn Elves. Next turn, I hit off a blind Cabal Therapy naming Elvish Archdruid seeing a hand of 2x Forest, Llanowar Elves, Fyndhorn Elves, and Wirewood Symbiote and then used another filter spell to dig through my deck. He played a land, and both elves, but I Mental Missteped the Symbiote, fearing the various shenanigans he could pull off, were it to resolve. I tread water for a few turns as I dug for my combo pieces, while he continued deploying random dorks and the occasional lord. By the time I had the combo in hand, I figured out that I would not have enough mana to play them both in one turn and would be dead on the next swing, so I scooped and kept him in the dark about what I was playing.

    I sideboarded into the hybrid plan and started on the play again. This game went much more smoothly, as I went turn one land, turn two Mesmeric Orb, turn three Basalt Monolith. He made me play out the combo to prove I had it, and as soon as he saw the Blasting Station he scooped it up for game three.

    For the third game, I boarded into the straight Show and Tell plan, since he had not paid attention to my graveyard and I didn’t think he noticed that I had flipped over Show and Tells the previous game. I was on the draw and mulled into a hand of Show and Tell, Emrakul, Underground Sea, Gitaxian Probe, Cabal Therapy, and Echoing Truth. He played a Forest and a Fyndhorn Elves. I drew a Narcomoeba, Probed seeing a hand of Null Rod, Llanowar Elves, Quirion Ranger, Wasteland, and Elvish Champion, drew a Scalding Tarn, then Therapyed away the Elvish Champion after playing my Underground Sea. He then played wasteland, slammed the Null Rod with Wasteland and a Forest, played Ranger with the Fyndhorn, then used the ranger to untap the Fyndhorn so he could play Llanowar. I simply played a Narcomoeba to chump block with and passed. On his turn, he replayed his bounced Forrest and cast Natural Order by getting rid of his Fyndhorn to get an Elvish Archdruid. Inwardly, I gave a huge sigh of relief, and he swung in with Ranger and Llanowar. I simply drew and passed, still waiting for my third land. He played a second Archdruid and once again swung with the team. I bounced Archdruid with an Echoing Truth and killed Quirion by blocking with Narcomoeba. On my turn I drew my third land, slammed the Show and Tell cheating Emrakul into play. He thought about it for a bit, and eventually extended the hand.

    1-0

    After the match, I asked him why he Natural Ordered into Elvish Archdruid. He was very nice and responded that he boarded out his Progenitus and he had his Terastodon in his hand.

    Round 2: Michael Neil with Budget Eva Green

    Michael was one of Will’s friends and I was actually talking with him between the previous round and this one. He was nice enough though to tell me that he was playing Eva Green with a very low budget. He won the roll and chose to play. I kept a strong seven which had the Orb, Monolith, Tomb, two other lands, and two filter spells. He led with a swamp and Duress, taking my Monolith. I rip a second Monolith and then lead with Tomb into Orb. He then backed up his earlier claim of being a budget player by dropping an Overgrown Tomb and Hymning me, hitting my second Monolith off the dice roll. The rest of the game is pretty simple; him playing Hypnotic Specters, Tarmogoyfs, and Tombstalkers while I spend the game looking for a Monolith but fail to find it.

    I board into the Show and Tell plan after seeing heavy sideboarding on his part, and choose to play. The game starts the same as the last one with him slowly picking apart my hand and then landing Hypnotic Spector and Tombstalker. Thankfully, I topdeck Emrakul with a Show and Tell in hand and was able to come back at 6 life.

    Game three wasn’t really much of a game. I mulled to six on the draw and kept a hand of Force of Will, Force of Will, Show and Tell, Emrakul, Ancient Tomb and Scalding Tarn. He passes his first turn with just a Swamp and I draw a Mental Misstep. I just play a Tarn and pass. He plays a second Swamp and tries to Hymn, but I Force it, removing the second force. Next turn I play Tomb, cast Show and Tell into Emmy, and he scoops.

    2-0

    Between rounds I complain to Ben about how I'm somehow not able to win a game one. He tells me that I'm doing something wrong and to tighten up my play for the next few rounds. After that pep talk, I get my head back in the game and get ready for round three.

    Round 3: Andrew Nagy with Junk Hexdepths

    I don’t remember many specific details about this match, but I’ll write down what was in my notes and what little I can remember.

    Andrew was sitting next to me in round two, so we each had an idea of what the other one was playing. Unfortunately, I didn’t see much of his deck other than the Vampire Hexmage + Dark Depths combination. Another problem was that Andrew drew in his first round, so this did not bode well for my tiebreakers. I kept a hand of seven that had a few discard spells, some filter spells, and some lands. I tried a blind Therapy on turn one, naming Tarmogoyf, but I missed and saw a hand of Thoughtseize, Dark Confidant, Living Wish, Swords to Plowshares, and Knight of the Reliquary. He played turn two Bob then proceeded to overwhelm me with card advantage while drew ten out of my 17 lands and not the Monolith I needed to go with my turn two Orb. Needless to say, he won in very short order.

    I went in on the Hybrid plan due to him having a wishboard and probably a Karakas to get with his Knight of Reliquary. I don’t have many notes about this game, but based on the life totals I can tell he had a Dark Confidant on board. The only relevant play he made was a Living Wish for a Faerie Macabre. Eventually, I assembled the Monolith/Orb combo and started going off. I was going through the combo at a more methodical pace than I normally would have (asking him if he ever wanted to respond to a trigger because of the Macabre), so Andrew called over the judge to first see if there was anything I could do to shortcut the combo and then to make sure I wasn’t slow playing it. After a few graveyard resets, I eventually hit a Cabal Therapy with a Narcomoeba in play and used it. He used Macabre in response targeting my Sharuum and something irrelevant. In response to that, I kept milling until I hit an Emrakul to reset my grave and safely tuck away Sharuum into my deck. He had no other responses, so I named Swords to Plowshares with my Therapy just to double check he couldn’t stop me in any other way. In order to save time, he asked exactly how I killed him and I explained it. He asked to read Blasting Station before he scooped, so I milled until I found it. He then read it and picked up his cards.

    Game three was pretty much the exact same as game one except I mulled to six. I got way mana flooded, he got a Bob and Stoneforge out, and he completely shut me out of the game by Living Wishing for a Qasili Pridemage to blow up my Orb.

    2-1

    Round 4: James Bates with Blue Zoo

    James and I had what was by far the best pregame banter in the whole tournament. He knew what I was on and proceeded to jokingly celebrate when I mulled to five game one. He went turn one Tarn for a Taiga and played Grim Lavamancer, making it clear that he was playing Blue Zoo. While I was chatting to him about his deck choice, I forgot to notice the Misstep that was staring right at me when he cast his Lavamancer and I let it resolve. After giving myself a quick mental chastising, I put my head back in the game and kept digging for the combo. Eventually I had three mana, tapped out to play Monolith, and then tapped the Monolith to play Orb. At the end of my turn, he cracked a fetch then cast Brainstorm, which I countered with the Misstep that was still in my hand from the Lavamancer misplay I made earlier by paying two life. Still at the end of my turn, he then used a Lightning Bolt and Lavamancer to take me down to low enough life that he could just attack me with the Wild Nacatl he had on board for game.

    Game two I sided in the full Show and Tell plan, planning to just strip his Knight of the Reliquaries out of his hand with discard spells. I did just that when I cast turn one Thoughtseize and saw a hand of Knight, Gaddock Teeg, Lightning Bolt, 2x Scalding Tarn, Windswept Heath, and Plateau. He put a team of a few dorks together, but then I was able to drop Show and Tell into Emrakul and he scooped on his next turn.

    Game three I went into the hybrid plan because of him seeing Show and Tell game two and then promptly mulled to six. He started by playing a land and passing. I probed him seeing a hand of five lands and a Brainstorm. We both laughed a bit over the hand and then I use Therapy, forcing him to use his Brainstorm in response. I whiffed on Therapy by calling out Swords to Plowshares, and saw a hand full of lands and a Green Sun’s Zenith. On his turn, after thinking a while about what land he wanted to play, he used the Zenith for 0 to get Dryad Arbor and passed. I then pondered and saw my top three cards were Emrakul, Orb, and Monolith with a Show and Tell in my hand. I snap kept the three in the exact same order, drew the Emrakul, and then passed. On his turn, he played a fourth land and then windmill slammed Jace the Mind Sculptor onto the board. I internally winced due to the fact that my Show and Tell + Emrakul combo was now dead and started praying he wouldn’t fateseal my other combo away. Thankfully, he just Brainstormed with Jace and passed. I drew my Monolith, played my fourth land, and then passed back, still praying that he wouldn’t fateseal away my chances of winning. He thankfully just used Jace to Brainstorm again and passed it back to me. I drew my Orb, played my fifth land, and slammed both pieces of my combo. He then made me go through all of the motions, even disrupting my by Bolting and Red Elemental Blasting some of my Narcomoebas to make me have to reshuffle my deck and go digging for them again. After around five minutes or so about him sitting there doing nothing due to the multiple Emrakuls in my deck, he finally scooped.

    3-1

    I met up with Ben, Liam, and my friend Kevin this round and we all talked about potential matches with each other since we were all 3-1 with only two rounds left. Ben was also further baffled by the fact that I hadn’t won a game one all day, but congratulated me on having a good record. Pairings went up shortly after, and we all had a good laugh when Kevin exclaimed a loud “Fuck!” after he saw he was paired against me.

    Round 5: Kevin Lee with Hive Mind

    We knew exactly what the other was playing, and talked about the matchup before the round started. The conclusion everyone came to was that I was favored, but I had not done much testing against Hive Mind against someone who regularly played the deck. Game one he won the roll but mulled to five while I kept a hand with Therapy, Probe, Thoughtseize, Orb, Scalding Tarn, Ponder, and Brainstorm. He played Ancient Tomb and Grim monolith. I then probed him, seeing a hand of Show and Tell, Force of Will, and Pact of Negation. I drew a fetchland, then cracked it for a sea to Therapy him. He let it resolve, and I took Show and Tell from his hand. On his turn, he drew Underground Sea and passed. I then Brainstormed into the Monolith, fetched for another Sea, then Thoughtseized him taking his Force of Will. He drew a second Monolith, threatening the Hive Mind kill if he ever were to draw it. However, I ran out Orb and then my Monolith on my next two turns, and he scooped them up without making me go through the motions.

    Despite finally winning a game one, I boarded into the Hybrid plan because I didn’t trust Show and Tell to be enough, considering that he had his own Emrakuls and Hive Mind. Sadly, I only boarded in the bare minimum, and my starting seven for game two was pretty much turned off when he slammed a Leyline of Sanctity after a mull to 6. Since I had no Echoing Truths boarded in, the game then became super awkward with each of us stocking up on mana and counters until one of us could find a way to pull the trigger. I actually got up to 12 mana with six lands and two Monoliths in an attempt to try and hard cast Emrakul. Sadly, he struck first by casting Hive Mind with two Forces of Will to counter my two Forces of Will and then casting Pact of the Titan for game.

    Knowing about the Leylines now, I boarded in the Truths and kept a hand of seven. I probed him to see that he had Volcanic Island, Ancient Tomb, Island, Vendilion Clique, Intuition, Show and Tell, and Hive mind; a.k.a. the nuts. He turn two Intuitioned which I countered with a Force of Will. After Brainstorming into all three of my Emrakuls (cracking a fetch to get rid of two of them), Kevin eventually dropped a Show and Tell. I decided to let it resolve, thinking I could drop Emrakul into play and just Force of Will the pact he was going to play to kill me. My inexperience with against the Hive Mind deck though cost me and when I let this happen he simply used the Force of Will he got off the Hive Mind to counter my Force of Will. The good thing out of this though is that it was a small local tournament with friends instead of something like a GP or a SCG Open, so I am happy to have learned this lesson here and not later.

    3-2

    Standings went up and I saw that I was in 13th place. I figured that I was pretty much out of the running for Top 8, but I set to crush the last round and keep my fingers crossed for my breakers to allow me to sneak into 8th.

    Round 6: John Harduvel with Combo Elves

    I knew John was on Elves from hearing people saying how he was “keeping the dream alive” earlier in the day. I didn’t know whether or not it was Combo Elves or Aggro Elves, but I didn’t really care since neither deck had any way to disrupt me. Thankfully, this turned out to be the match where my deck decided to show off what it can really do by giving me a hand of Orb, Monolith, Ancient Tomb, Ponder, and three other lands. He played a Fyndhorn Elves and passed while I made a turn one Orb with my Ancient Tomb. He milled Emrakul off of Orb (letting me know that he was Combo Elves), and then played another dork on his turn while I slammed the Monolith on mine. Thankfully he knew how the combo worked, so he picked up his cards then and there.

    I sided into the straight Show and Tell plan and drew a hand of Show and Tell, Emrakul, Three lands, Gitaxian Probe, and Cabal Therapy. He went first, playing a land and a mana dork, and then passed the turn to me. I drew my card and Probed him, seeing a hand of Elvish Visionary, Wirewood Symbiote, Fydhorn Elves, Krosan Grip, and a Forest. I then used Therapy getting rid of his Visionary and passed it back to him. He played his second Forest, dumped all the dudes I had seen out of his hand, and then attacked before passing. I then played a second land and passed. He swung with his team, dropping me to 13, then passed. I ripped Ancient Tomb off the top, played it, used a second Therapy on him naming Emrakul to make sure the coast was clear, and then played Show and Tell to sneak Emrakul into play. He drew for his turn then extended the hand. I proceeded to turn in my match slip, grinning over my deck’s performance this round. Between the two games, I had only taken five turns.

    4-2

    I ended up coming in 9th place overall, with both Ben and Kevin making Top 8. I normally hate coming in 9th, since it’s just one spot away from the Promised Land, but since there were no X-2s in the Top 8 I didn’t feel so bad. I stuck around for a while to watch the Top 8 play out and trade for some cards I needed for my Vintage deck. There was a Top 4 split, and I packed it up and went home.

    Overall, my feelings about the deck are the same as they were when I entered the tournament. It is a total and complete blast to play, but it does take some practice to get to know how to use it and there are times where it spends too long spinning its wheels looking for the combo. Despite this shortfall, I would totally rock it again (hopefully with more testing this time around), and am going to keep working on it. One of the first suggestions I have for anyone who wants to sleeve this up is to try replacing the Preordains with Intuitions—it may mean you have to mulligan more aggressively (since you don’t have as many one drop filter spells), but it lets you grave whatever combo piece you need as soon as you need it. Also, don’t use Lim-Dul’s Vault. Both Ben and I have found it to be really bad when we tested with it, so if you don’t own Intuitions, just stick with Preordains and aggressive mulligans.

    Props:

    Ben Perry for Top 8ing, giving me this amazing deck, and for being an all-around awesome guy and a great friend.

    Liam Kane and Alexander Kwan for being great players and great people. I always have more fun at tournaments when guys are there.

    All of my Opponents for being such good sports.

    Lori Saul and Kevin Long for TO-ing and Judging. Without you guys none of this would have been possible.

    Anyone who I talked with throughout the day for both putting up with me and having great conversations with me.

    Nick Beatman for editing this Tournament Report to make sure I don’t look like a total idiot.

    Slops:

    Me for somehow not being able to win four of my game one with a deck that is supposed to win most game ones and for not knowing how Hive Mind works.
    Last edited by The Last Emperor; 08-06-2011 at 12:33 AM.

  2. #2
    3-point-shooter

    Join Date

    Feb 2006
    Posts

    528

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    Congrats on Top9 and thanks a lot for writing a detailed report!

    Quote Originally Posted by The Last Emperor View Post
    - If you think they have a Swords to Plowshares/Path to Exile in their hand while comboing off, wait until you have a Cabal Therapy in your graveyard and just one Narcomoeba. You can then sac it to the Therapy before they get a chance to Swords/Path it away. If you have two Narcos before you hit a Therapy, keep milling until you hit Emrakul to reshuffle.
    The Narcomoeba trigger is a 'may' clause. Therefore, you can hit any numbers of Narcomoebas before your first Therapy and only let one of them trigger to rip opponent's removal. You do have to reshuffle if you don't have both cards before revealing Emmy.

    Edit: Relying on cantrips does make this deck inconsistent. I play with 4 Intuition and 2 LDV. I would also recommend Divining Top. Top + Orb is an insane engine and makes LDV better.

  3. #3

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    Good point in the Narcos. I've personally found Vault to be a bit too slow, but Top seems like an interesting idea. Definitely worth testing.

  4. #4
    Member
    everythingitouchdies's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2010
    Location

    Encino, Ca
    Posts

    235

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    I didnt like vault because it didnt put a card in my hand, and a few times the life mattered. I have since cut the preordains for intuitions and its pretty amazing. I also took up running the tundra, I just didnt own one the first time I ran the deck.

  5. #5

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    A little nitpick but Patrick Chapin didn't revive this deck. Finn on here and MTGSal originally posted the deck idea and since then it has taken off. Chapin just wrote an article about it and he actually name dropped Finn in the article itself and gave him credit for the idea of monolith + orb. Overall nice report sorry you got 9th place getting 9th is rough.

    Yeah people seem to think narcomoeba is a must to return; I know when I played dredge I misplayed and didn't trigger narcomoeba and I couldn't go back and bring narc into play when I realized it later on, same with bloodghast.

    Intuition is just a really bomby spell. Only thing it's bad against is extirpate. It's basically demonic tutor at instant speed for one more mana, quite a powerful card. Preordain's can get there but not as hard as intuition, due to intuition being a demonic tutor essentially.
    Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
    Currently Playing:
    All flavors of storm combo
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix
    Lands is a joke for Solidarity. Its like asking a morbidly obese parapalegic to run the mile with his shoes tied.

  6. #6

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    I played it on Friday at a very small tournament with Intuitions over Preordains. Didn't drop a game in four rounds. This deck is for real.

  7. #7
    itsJulian.com - Legacy Videos
    Julian23's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Munich / Germany
    Posts

    3,141

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Last Emperor View Post
    - Don’t worry about time. If your opponent wants to make you play through the entire process, it’s better for you. You combo off in one turn, so if you go to Turns you can still take as long as you want and still be fine.
    Is that actually true? Last time I played against someone piloting this deck on Magic Online, he couldn't pull off the entire combo in 20 minutes. And that's on MODO, where shuffling takes less than a second as opposed to like 20 seconds in real.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  8. #8

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    Modo is a different matter where you have your own clock and in real life you have as much time as you need to do what you have to do to combo. You also have to go one mill at a time, which can be a downside to combo'ing I guess. Maybe it's impossible to play this deck on modo due to that but that's about the only reason.
    Bread Connoisseur on MTGSalvation Forums
    Currently Playing:
    All flavors of storm combo
    Quote Originally Posted by Vacrix
    Lands is a joke for Solidarity. Its like asking a morbidly obese parapalegic to run the mile with his shoes tied.

  9. #9

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    Because of the chess clock, this deck is not practical on Modo. IRL it's fine because if you go into time because you took 20 min to combo off, you'll either win because you'll be up a game or ideally win in time with the combo.

  10. #10
    itsJulian.com - Legacy Videos
    Julian23's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Munich / Germany
    Posts

    3,141

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    I still got doubts. You might actually have to perform the combo for the mentioned 20 minutes. A lot of judges would consider tapping/untapping Monolith to mill yourself "not advancing the game state" because you're actually just hoping that you'll eventually hit all the cards you need before Emrakul.

    But I'd welcome be proven wrong on this.

    crd in the house?
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  11. #11
    Member
    everythingitouchdies's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2010
    Location

    Encino, Ca
    Posts

    235

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    Once you are able to establish that you have a loop, aka tapping untapping monolith three times, you shouldnt physically have to do it to mill the card, and doing so would likely be considered slow play. Just like worldgorger dragon loop in vintage, you can add a million mana to your pool without actually tapping your land a million times.

    From there you can mill to get your narcomoebas with the emrakul trigger on the stack, shortening that, and from there it shouldnt take more than a couple of quick blitzes to finish the combo. I have called a judge over when I had the thing going and my opponent didnt understand initially, but I have really only had one player push it enough to need the judge to verify.

    If you are taking twenty minutes to combo with this deck you are probably doing something wrong.

  12. #12
    itsJulian.com - Legacy Videos
    Julian23's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Munich / Germany
    Posts

    3,141

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    Notice that you are not performing a loop. You are using a shortcut but not performing a loop. I would definitely make my opponent play it out because there's a chance they'll just have to keep going for so long that a judge might issue a warning (or any kind of penalty) for slow play by not advancing the game state.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  13. #13
    Vintage

    Join Date

    Apr 2005
    Location

    West Coast Degeneracy
    Posts

    5,135

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    It's definitely a gray area when it comes to the rules.

    There is no deterministic way to get the proper order for the graveyard, and hence may take several shuffles to get lucky. This is where I'm unsure about the rules for playing the sequence out.
    West side
    Find me on MTGO as Koby or rukcus -- @MTGKoby on Twitter
    * Maverick is dead. Long live Maverick!
    My Legacy stream
    My MTG Blog - Work in progress

  14. #14
    itsJulian.com - Legacy Videos
    Julian23's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Munich / Germany
    Posts

    3,141

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    I believe it's ok to just reveal cards from the top of your deck until an ability triggers (e.g. Emrakul or Narcomoeba) or one players interrupts the sequence in order to do something. You don't have to manually tap/untap the Monolith or announce each triggered ability of Static Orb.

    The issue I'm worried about is - as ruckus mentions - is to get everything set up properly. Sometimes this will work immedideatly but most of the time will require quite a lot of revealing and shuffling. Therefor, from what I understand, a situation might come up where a judge might interfer. It's like with Lim-Dul's Vault when you're at sth. like 1.000.000 life - you're definitely not allowed to use all of your life here even if you've got an odd number of cards in your library and wouldn't wasting time but trying to archive a state where the top 5 cards of your library are of a certain combination.


    This doesn't make the deck unplayable at all. It's just a (maybe minor) issue to keep in mind.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

  15. #15

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    I guess if you have concerns, double check it with the HJ of the tournament before the event starts. It is a legal action, even if it doesn't always advanced the board state, and as long as you do it at a decent pace it should not be a problem since there is an end goal to it all.

  16. #16
    Member
    everythingitouchdies's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2010
    Location

    Encino, Ca
    Posts

    235

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    I was referring to not needing to physically tap and untap the monolith each time you mill a card. Clearly you will have to actually mill them, but in reality it doesnt take that long to do so, and most of the things that will extend the time frame will have to do with your opponent, such as him wanting to shuffle your deck after each emrakul trigger after you shuffle. I have played this deck in five tournaments and I only went to time once, against merfolk, and it had nothing to do with time spent comboing out.

  17. #17
    itsJulian.com - Legacy Videos
    Julian23's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2007
    Location

    Munich / Germany
    Posts

    3,141

    Re: 9th with Four Horseman, 7/31/2011 at Knightware, LA, California (39 Players)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Last Emperor View Post
    I guess if you have concerns, double check it with the HJ of the tournament before the event starts. It is a legal action, even if it doesn't always advanced the board state, and as long as you do it at a decent pace it should not be a problem since there is an end goal to it all.
    Note that the last part of your statement is irrelevant, looking at it rules-wise.

    I agree that time issues might not come up all that often in real live tournaments.
    The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
    1. Discuss the unbanning of Land Tax Earthcraft.
    2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
    3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
    4. Stifle Standstill.
    5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
    6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
    7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)